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For one Bear form and badger are supposed to have multiattack, and multi attack should be able to split attack between foes. without multiattack the damage on druid wild shapes that are supposed to get them are extremely weak, also most of the forms have low Armor class, this is usually compensated by the large health pools, like polar bear is to have minimum of 45 health if you go by the median value, or have them able to roll dice for hit dice every time they shift. As of at the moment the druid forms are very under powered and lack luster, very disappointed, and is a shame druid is my favorite class, especially moon druid. Also the druid takes on the movement speed of the beasts they shift into like bears movement is 40ft per turn.



Its almost as if you just took the stat blocks from beast master ranger pets ( which loose multiattack if they had one, where as the druid wild shapes are identical to the stat blocks of the beasts sent against players with the few exceptions like the druid keeps there int, wis, and cha scores.)

Last edited by soulstalker; 26/02/21 04:16 AM.
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Yeah, the forms are definitely nerfed.... on the other hand, moon druid were always overpowered as hell, so I am not too heartbroken about this change, although... yes. I would prefer if they were FAR more faithful on all accounts to the PHB rules, to be honest.

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They should give back the multiattack imo, the forms are meant to have a sort of flat consistency for each animal and you unlock more as you see more. So they should have the abilities that make them strong to reward players choosing to become them compared to another animal who has different strengths. I do like the abilities like allowing the wolf to howl to increase movement or the bear to taunt though, I'm not all to familiar with druid but it feels like a larianism but a good one that makes each animal unique.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
They should give back the multiattack imo, the forms are meant to have a sort of flat consistency for each animal and you unlock more as you see more. So they should have the abilities that make them strong to reward players choosing to become them compared to another animal who has different strengths. I do like the abilities like allowing the wolf to howl to increase movement or the bear to taunt though, I'm not all to familiar with druid but it feels like a larianism but a good one that makes each animal unique.

A druid that changes form to a bear to tank? You sure that can be called "larianism"? 😂

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Larian has granted access to multiple forms that break the CR cap or the movement type limitations: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Druid and look at the limitations under Wild Shape.

Even Circle of the Moon should only be able to get CR 1 at 2nd level and druid level divided by 3, rounded down, at level 6 and higher. Polar bears are CR 2 - shouldn't be available at all. Flying forms shouldn't be available until level 8.

Basically, it means they wanted people to have a lot of shapes available to make it flashy, but then had to nerf the actual shapes to keep something that looks like balance.

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Yeah, the forms are definitely nerfed.... on the other hand, moon druid were always overpowered as hell, so I am not too heartbroken about this change, although... yes. I would prefer if they were FAR more faithful on all accounts to the PHB rules, to be honest.


Moon druid was never overpowered it just had a different power curve then the rest of the classes. It starts out strong, by 5th it starts to get weaker then the other melee classes/sub ( because they finally get extra attack which cancels out the power curve moon druid had at lvl 2 til you reach 5th lvl because of multiattack.) From 5th lvl til 10lvl moon druid stays the weakest melee class and as lvls progress til 10th lvl is more and more likely to just cast spells over shifting. At 10th lvl however moon druid gets elemental shape which puts it back on par with other melee classes/sub.

By taking away multiattack Larian has nerfed and made moon druid the weakest class/sub til lvl 10, also the stat blocks you made for druid forms reduces a player character as weak or weaker then the pets you gave beast master ranger, but at least Beast master pet in this game has the player to back up the pet in a fight

Last edited by soulstalker; 26/02/21 06:34 PM.
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Originally Posted by RBarbare
Larian has granted access to multiple forms that break the CR cap or the movement type limitations: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Druid and look at the limitations under Wild Shape.

Even Circle of the Moon should only be able to get CR 1 at 2nd level and druid level divided by 3, rounded down, at level 6 and higher. Polar bears are CR 2 - shouldn't be available at all. Flying forms shouldn't be available until level 8.

Basically, it means they wanted people to have a lot of shapes available to make it flashy, but then had to nerf the actual shapes to keep something that looks like balance.


I would strongly would have preferred they go by that CR chart for what types of forms you can shift into then putting out drastically watered down forms.

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I was also sort of annoyed they gave land druid access to all but 1 of the forms by ignoring CR chart, and also the only special form they gave Moon druid is polar bear. (sarcastic tone) Like Yea we commit our class to wild shape and what do we get to show from it, just polar bear, and not even a good polar bear, just a massively nerfed to hell version that is garbage considering its our sub class focus. Its a massive slap in the face really.

If you want to give moon druid a bear give us brown bear , its CR1 ( I know it has a swim speed, but really do you really see us using swimming at all in this game, so it would be moot.) Land druids should be getting forms of the cat CR0, the giant badger.CR1/4 if they changed the giant spider to giant wolf spider the CR would work making it CR1/4, the raven CR 0, the deep rothe CR 1/4, if later they allow us to learn forms we have seen boar would also work for land druid being CR 1/4. Land druid should not have access to dire wolf since its CR 1, and polar bear since its CR 2... if they want a bear form for land druid its called black bear CR 1/2 ( Land druid wouldn't get access to it til lvl 4)

Moon druid can use CR 1 forms at lvl 2 for a bear we could use CR2 polar bear at lvl 6 , but if you want to give us a bear at lvl 2 that would be brown bear CR 1. also could use dire wolf, CR 1, the actual giant spider is also CR 1. my advice is get the stat blocks right like as listed in the PHB. From Volo's guide to monsters I would love us getting the form Deinonychus CR1 with its 3 part multiattack, which if you look atthe underdark they gave the Myconids a three part multiattack, might have changed with updates, but even Helsin's bear form has muliattack.

Moon Druids can start at CR1 forms and can use at lvl 6 the CR of a form equal to 1/3 there druid lvl, so at lvl 6 they can use CR2, they can use CR3 at lvl 9, at lvl 10 they get elemental wildshape ( which allows use CR5 elementals), then CR4 at lvl 12, then CR5 at lvl 15, and finally CR6 at lvl 18. Flying forms for all druids is at lvl 9, swimming forms is techncially at lvl 4 for all druids, but again is moot unless Larian has some places only a moon druid can go or there is some underwater adventures planned.

Last edited by soulstalker; 26/02/21 06:15 PM.
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As for Land Druid the fact they don't let you pick your land type also is sort of a minor nerf, it effects the spells you have access to. But hardly even close to the massive near debilitating nerf they gave moon druid

Last edited by soulstalker; 26/02/21 06:17 PM.
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If Larian wants to look into it for later i highly suggest a few sub classes for druid> my favorite for a caster druid is Circle of the Wildfire, way better then Circle of the Land as a caster. Circle of the wildfire druids focus on the aspect of destructive forces and Rebirth of nature. Circle of the Sheppard druid is also fun , it basically makes druid into a summoner, and is focused on one of my favorite spells Conjure Animals. Circle of the Spore, Focuses on the death and decay elements of nature, it sort of makes the druid a necromancer of sorts.

Last edited by soulstalker; 26/02/21 06:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by soulstalker
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Yeah, the forms are definitely nerfed.... on the other hand, moon druid were always overpowered as hell, so I am not too heartbroken about this change, although... yes. I would prefer if they were FAR more faithful on all accounts to the PHB rules, to be honest.


Moon druid was never overpowered it just had a different power curve then the rest of the classes. It starts out strong, by 5th it starts to get weaker then the other melee classes/sub ( because they finally get extra attack which cancels out the power curve moon druid had at lvl 2 til you reach 5th lvl because of multiattack.) From 5th lvl til 10lvl moon druid stays the weakest melee class and as lvls progress til 10th lvl is more and more likely to just cast spells over shifting. At 10th lvl however moon druid gets elemental shape which puts it back on par with other melee classes/sub.

By taking away multiattack Larian has nerfed and made moon druid the weakest class/sub til lvl 10

I can't really agree that they have made it the weakest class with this change. They have great survivability due to shape changing making them very durable casters with a huge amount of utility. I at least prefer them over clerics in this game space. I think they had to nerf them or they would be way stronger then the other classes.

Last edited by fkhaller; 26/02/21 06:38 PM.
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Originally Posted by RBarbare
Larian has granted access to multiple forms that break the CR cap or the movement type limitations: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Druid and look at the limitations under Wild Shape.

Even Circle of the Moon should only be able to get CR 1 at 2nd level and druid level divided by 3, rounded down, at level 6 and higher. Polar bears are CR 2 - shouldn't be available at all. Flying forms shouldn't be available until level 8.

Basically, it means they wanted people to have a lot of shapes available to make it flashy, but then had to nerf the actual shapes to keep something that looks like balance.

The stats are so changed I don't think you can call this a CR2 polar bear. I agree with you on the reason. It would however be nice to know what the plan is moving forward on stronger shapes. Its stats are significantly closer to a CR1 brown bear, and even that has multiattack. Now, multiattack as a concept is probably something they want to implement once they roll out level 5 (they have to for fighters obviously) so the issue is that the polar bear is actually underpowered compared to the CR1 bear a moon druid should be able to turn into in TT.

I also disagree that moon druid is OP, maaaaaaybe at level 20, but it's just a stronger earlier weaker a little later curve where it becomes much much stronger in the ultra late game.

Last edited by Ankou; 26/02/21 06:53 PM.
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Higher levels should offer more than ordinary beasts. Druids should wild shape into magical creatures. No reason to stop the “rule of cool” regarding wild shape.

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If they went off dnd rules , the beast forms would still have unique abilities. for example the direwolf by RAW has pack tactics(advantage against enemies that an ally is near), and multiattack for the bears.

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I don't really get why Larian distributed the forms the way they did.

On top of the bear form dire wolf and giant spider should also be moon druid specific as both are CR1. Access to stronger creatures is the entire point of the circle choice and yet the bear you get doesn't seem particularly more impressive in combat than the wolf or spider. Are the bonus spells worth bear form? I don't think so, to be honest. Invisibility, for example, is a waaaay more useful tool in your toolkit.

And yah, brown bear would've been fine. Though the polar bear doesn't seem equal to a CR2 creature, so they might've just done polar bear because it looks cooler.

Land druids should be limited to the Deep Rothe and the giant badger for their combat form needs. The giant badger is honestly pretty strong with its burrow ability so it isn't like land druids wouldn't have good options for fighting in wildshape when their spells run out or they wanna mix things up in melee.


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