Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Dec 2020
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
That's fine to want; who doesn't want to take an RPG to its highest levels? .
I do not want that. Max level between 10-14 is fine for me. Expansion could increase max level yes. However at this point discuss any possible expansion is to early I think. Let them try fix this full release which is lots of work.

I played World of Warcraft MMO over 3 years before I quit so I know the thrill to get to higher power. I simply find it more fun the journey sometimes then the end goal. Finally I do not want to postpone release date from year 2021 or 2022 to year 2024.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 27/02/21 04:11 PM.
Joined: Feb 2021
member
Offline
member
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Seraphael
Oh, I didn't argue BG2 wasn't its own title, I casually mentioned that it could have been called an expansion rather than a standalone title. There isn't necessarily some gargantuan difference set in stone y'know?
English may not be your native language, but you demonstrate very good command of it nevertheless. Certainly sufficient to register the fact that a standalone title, well, stands alone; and an expansion expands on a previous one. One can be played in it's own right. The other cannot. That's pretty much as set in stone as things get. But we digress...

Last edited by Elessaria666; 27/02/21 04:13 PM.
Joined: Nov 2020
addict
Online Content
addict
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Uh to the main topic, even though they didn't envision BG3 as this, I would like to see it be a 1-20 Adventure, or ending somewhere around 1-14 or 1-17. This would allow full character progressions and allow for over the top or big combats near the end. It would also enable a large variety of magic items that can be powerful, and multiclassing would feel somewhat rewarding if you choose to do it as you have levels to work with your concept.
That's fine to want; who doesn't want to take an RPG to its highest levels? The question is would you rather have a game in 18 months and an expansion a year or 2 later, or just wait another 3-4 years whilst they develop tools for and balance dozens of new feats, new spells, weapons, armour, and then iron out the hundreds of bugs and unintended interactions that all brings?

Not to mention the fact that higher level spells are generally several orders of magnitude more intricate in how they affect the game environment than, say, Firebolt. And we will want new snd intetesting maps and locations to gain those levels in. And an expanded story arc. We need to have realistic expectations of what is possible.

Failure to do so tends to go one of two ways; either a game is rushed to launch and experiences the kind of car crash garbage fire launch Cyberpunk did; or it spends forever in development, gets labelled as vapourware and anyone who preordered or bought early access starts thinking about refunds, like Star Citizen.

I want the game to take as long as it needs to be as good as it can be. Expansions should be an after thing, I don't really like it being considered part of the model for making a complete game. And yes, I want them to take their time in implementing things, such as higher level spells. They don't have to be exact and they can reduce the amount of effects they get or change it, like how Thaumaturgy only affects intimidation when in tabletop it is a fun rp tool, or how friends now doesn't cause hostility. Also I expect the game to come out in around 2 years even considering implementing and testing higher level spells and class abilities. As they lay down groundwork, it will get easier and easier for them to add things as most features will have something that has precedent. Hopefully we will see updates come out faster and faster with the increased team size and groundwork constantly being laid in the background.

Joined: Feb 2021
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Unknown. Initially it was to be up to level 10 due to work required to implement spells. In, I think, RPS interview some months ago it was said the level cap will be most likely slightly higher then that, but there is no word of how high it will be.

Originally Posted by S2PHANE
If they stay true to 5th edition it should be level 20.

Single campaign doesn't need to cover all possible levels. As a matter of fact, more focused progression of BG1&2 I think worked better then single games spanning from zero to hero (Icewind Dales, PoE1&2, Kingmaker)

Personally, I don't think they will go as high as 20, probably end it at around 15, then save the final 5 levels for the first expansion. You figure the starting level you will probably be leaving at like level 5, if there is 3 more chapters, each higher level taking a little longer, 15 sounds about right to me. But I mean that is just my theory.

Joined: Oct 2020
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Doing my patch 4 playthrough right now - just arrived at the Goblin camp, and I'm already level 4.

I still have basically 50% of the EA to explore right now. If we're counting Moonrise Towers as part of Act 1, I can't help but feel like if the XP rewards remains the same, you can get up to level 6/7 before even arriving at Baldur's Gate.

I'm expecting leveling to slow by Act 2 and 3, but I feel like the max level is going to end up being 14-15 now.

Last edited by Topgoon; 28/02/21 03:23 PM.
Joined: Jun 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jun 2014
I repeat, it would make sense to go all the way to 20.

Joined: Jul 2019
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2019
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
I repeat, it would make sense to go all the way to 20.
To me as well, but only during DLC. If you can hit 20 during the main game, the potential DLC wouldn't be very rewarding, but I think not being able to hit 20 after all DLC and waiting 5 years to do so in another game would be attrocious.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
I'd like to see them take the time to do the early levels *right*. Balancing and debugging 12 levels is easier than doing the same for 20 levels.

Only after they have mastered the systems in this game should they push things to level 20.

Joined: Oct 2015
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2015
Stepping back into the DLC discussion a bit -- it's true that Larian doesn't really do expansions or DLC. I'm not sure why they haven't been keen to do expansions though (which I define as substantial added content -- for example, compare Witcher 3 DLC and expansions), because I doubt many people would be unhappy about expansions. Still, they don't seem keen. I suspect maybe they just prefer having an opportunity to reinvent the wheel a bit regarding game mechanics.

I don't see any reason why Larian wouldn't be willing to do a sequel linked to the original story and a higher starting level unless they feel it would make for a difficult entry-point for new players.

Anyway, there's no reason to assume the level cap will definitely be level 20. Larian isn't making a virtual D&D tabletop. They're making a Baldur's Gate game first and foremost. Obviously they are trying to mimic tabletop D&D but they're still making their own design decisions for their own game. I think they're more interested in making more of the weird low-level stuff as good as they can get it, rather than watering it down so they can pump out all 20 levels just for completionists. (Much like what dwig said.)

Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
I wonder how many areas there'll be in the final game if the max lvl will indeed be 12/14, since lvl 6 is be pretty attainable by the EAs' end. Maybe they just sped up xp gains for right now.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
I don't see any reason why Larian wouldn't be willing to do a sequel linked to the original story and a higher starting level unless they feel it would make for a difficult entry-point for new players.

I feel like they would most assuredly feel that way. Nowadays everyone tries to make sequels super-accessible to new players, and throwing them into a lvl 12 character with all the abilities/passives that come with that is pretty against that.

Joined: Feb 2021
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I wonder how many areas there'll be in the final game if the max lvl will indeed be 12/14, since lvl 6 is be pretty attainable by the EAs' end. Maybe they just sped up xp gains for right now.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
I don't see any reason why Larian wouldn't be willing to do a sequel linked to the original story and a higher starting level unless they feel it would make for a difficult entry-point for new players.

I feel like they would most assuredly feel that way. Nowadays everyone tries to make sequels super-accessible to new players, and throwing them into a lvl 12 character with all the abilities/passives that come with that is pretty against that.

Different people - different tastes, I love the idea.
Being thrown into the deep end straight away feels more rewarding to me personally, thats half the success of a game like Escape from Tarkov which isn't really thrown around in comparisons, but still has an amazing game design. The players become more invested when they have to learn everything from scratch, thats what it felt like playing the original BG games for me, I never even heard of the universe or the tabletop rules up until that point. I was lost in wonder.
People these days like being handed things, everything must come easy. I lose interest pretty quickly when something is pandering to me.

Joined: Feb 2021
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I wonder how many areas there'll be in the final game if the max lvl will indeed be 12/14, since lvl 6 is be pretty attainable by the EAs' end. Maybe they just sped up xp gains for right now.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
I don't see any reason why Larian wouldn't be willing to do a sequel linked to the original story and a higher starting level unless they feel it would make for a difficult entry-point for new players.

I feel like they would most assuredly feel that way. Nowadays everyone tries to make sequels super-accessible to new players, and throwing them into a lvl 12 character with all the abilities/passives that come with that is pretty against that.

Who is to say the levels gained in EA will be the same in final release? Maybe in final release you will only reach like lvl 3 or 4.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
The vast majority of campaigns never reach 20. It isn't really necessary to have an enjoyable adventure.

Plus once you get to levels 15+ casters start getting pretty insane. A 20th level druid can Shapechange to become a full adult dragon while maintaining their druid levels and spells, as an example. And that is without touching on more crazy spells like Wish. Levels 15+ are in such an incredibly different realm of power that it might not be feasible to do in a small scale tactical RPG like BG3.

Joined: Jun 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
Larian said level 10 & then they said they were rethinking that ....who knows..

Joined: Nov 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by S2PHANE
Originally Posted by Innateagle
I wonder how many areas there'll be in the final game if the max lvl will indeed be 12/14, since lvl 6 is be pretty attainable by the EAs' end. Maybe they just sped up xp gains for right now.

Originally Posted by Ayvah
I don't see any reason why Larian wouldn't be willing to do a sequel linked to the original story and a higher starting level unless they feel it would make for a difficult entry-point for new players.

I feel like they would most assuredly feel that way. Nowadays everyone tries to make sequels super-accessible to new players, and throwing them into a lvl 12 character with all the abilities/passives that come with that is pretty against that.

Different people - different tastes, I love the idea.
Being thrown into the deep end straight away feels more rewarding to me personally, thats half the success of a game like Escape from Tarkov which isn't really thrown around in comparisons, but still has an amazing game design. The players become more invested when they have to learn everything from scratch, thats what it felt like playing the original BG games for me, I never even heard of the universe or the tabletop rules up until that point. I was lost in wonder.
People these days like being handed things, everything must come easy. I lose interest pretty quickly when something is pandering to me.

Oh, i much prefer stuff like BG2, ME2 or Dragon Age:Awakening, i just don't think it fits with what devs nowadays want out of a mainstream sequel of a mainstream series. Like, both the worst and best sequel i can think of, Mass Effect 3 and Witcher 3 respectively, more or less brush away everything that happened before them, levels included, in their quest to be easy access points to new players.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
My opinion is this. If you end up making a level 20 game, you can always make the DLCs epic levels like previous DnD games. I think it would be a shame to limit their levels to just 10 and I think level 15 is more likely than getting to level 20. I am not sure how much they changed from 3.5 to 5E in experience points awarded for leveling, but getting to level 15 isn't a walk in the park. The first 6 levels usually fly by pretty fast and start to slow at that point. So I think level 15 is feasible considering how fast Act 1 gets you to level 4 and 5. I would not mind if they got to level 20 though as long as everything is well vamped out and balanced.

My main worry though is that capping levels is that if you cap it you get the same problem with waiting on a DLC as well. No matter where you cap the level at its going to be the same problem. You hit that ceiling. This is where DnD has always had its problems in the leveling system. Level 20 is usually the cap, but for computer games leveling caps are just the death of them. That is why in 3.0 and 3.5 they had epic level handbooks made (and I'm sure 2E had this as well, but I'm more familiar with the 3.X line).

To bring up the old Neverwinter Nights line, the DLCs literally propelled you into epic levels. So I understand the hesitation by many in the community to not want to get to level 20 too fast, but game designers should always take it as a challenge to well take up the challenge to progressing forward and beyond. Also remember it takes more and more XP over time as you level. So yes, your level 20 is mowing down armies like they are a joke, but the higher level you get the more older and higher level opponents you are attracting as well. Faerun is filled with large amounts of powerful entities and organizations that can and will offer a sizable challenge to higher level foes. Also remember the Planes of the Multiverse are vast and Mind Flayers are not low level threats. You could be fighting them forever and still never reach their most powerful opponents. Then you also got the Gods/Goddesses and other planar god-like entities to deal with.

I think mainly why most, and I totally understand the hesitation and reluctance of doing high level gaming in DnD, is that it can be really overwhelming to think of something to challenge high level heroes/anti-heros/villains. They can have followers, mass armies, castles, floating cities, and etc all in Faerun alone. That is even before you scratch the Planes which are even more insane.

Anyways, *cough*, I'm rambling. My apologies. Back on topic I think we will more than likely get to level 15 at the current level at how fast xp and acts are going. Which I, for one, am totally okay with, but I would also be fine with seeing level 20 game play as well. Having a target level for a game is fine, but shouldn't be a hard cap if you feel level 20 can be reached and still provide an amazing story and gaming experience. smile

Joined: Oct 2020
V
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
V
Joined: Oct 2020
I really have a problem with this community when it comes from these games and it makes me hate most of you. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but with the Trainers, exploits, modding and just about everything else you can do in games now, when I read "duheeer the balance of gameplay expectations for myself to have a very difficult time playing this game and barely enjoying each battle as it is the only way I can have fun and justify my existence". Its a video game. I love D&D and i'm looking forward to a nice challenge, but c'mon guys. You shouldn't be hoping for a lower level cap or suggesting one. level 20 in this game doesn't seem far fetched, as there are 5 more, presumably much larger, chapters in this game. Now, do I expect there to be a level 20 cap? No, I do not. I would like there to be, without waiting 6 years for a sequel. I will use save editors and cheats, and I will have fun my own way. Second playthrough? Whole party of Gods, because why not? Its a game, its supposed to be fun. They aren't going to have professional D&D tournaments for esports lol (which is ridiculous). Please stop trying to blunt fun for others, because you don't like something. There is potential for higher levels as we know of at least ONE Adult Red Dragon in this game, which is a Challenge 17. I would want the full template just for the DM mode they are talking about having. Sorry to seem hostile, but as a life long gamer, I just dont understand why you want so much to take away. Ask for Filters if you feel it would affect your game, stop leveling your character at a certain point. Just stop trying to affect everyone else.

Joined: Mar 2021
G
stranger
Offline
stranger
G
Joined: Mar 2021
I just sure hope they don't stop at level 10, there is another quantum jump at level 11 it would feel like being stuck now at level 4 and yearning for that extra attack or fireball.

If they planned on 10 but are looking at more I would hope for at least 12. That would get you to the third ASI for a flavorful feat, but they wouldn't have to go into implementing level 7 spells or higher for now.

I am also hoping there will be DLC. I picture it like buying another core book from the tabletop game, buy Xanthar's get some new race/class choices and spells, etc...

Joined: Oct 2020
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Oct 2020
I think level 20 would be too much honestly,

As any experienced DM knows in 5e the 'fun' really starts when characters hit 14-17~ PC's become very very powerful by then especially casters, which makes balancing combat, or any sort of challenge really, much more complex.
It would be a huge accomplishment for Larian if they would be able to pull it off, to pay a respectable tribute to the complexity of D&D at those high levels,

Personally I would say 10 is a bit low, but 14 would be fine for me. But again, if they'd manage to pull of a full level 20 gameplay in detail with al mechanics in check, then this would easily be an RPG of mythical proportions.

OT: I also believe they envisioned level 10, but I;m not entirely sure if that is still relevant and accurate.

Joined: Jan 2018
W
old hand
Offline
old hand
W
Joined: Jan 2018
Larian originally said level 10 was the cap. They later said they increased the cap but did not specify to what level. Swen has expressly said that level 20 is not happening.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5