Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Day/Night Cycle

As previously stated and easily checked - video games (especially RPGs) have had D/N cycles some 20 years ago so it doesn't make sense to me why Larian would want their game to be a bland and static world to traverse in.
The swamp in its true form is a great example of the mood change a simple darker tone and some fog can do. Easily my favorite part of the game when not in the Underdark simply because it shows nuance, it shows that a bright and vibrant world can very quickly turn darker, its memorable unlike most of the upper part of Act 1.

So what would need to be done?
- They would need to make two different time periods obviously - Day and Night, the Day would be separated into two different lightings changed by spending a certain amount of time in game or by short resting - that is three different lightings - Morning, Afternoon and Evening. The tones could be influenced by weather effects (Rain, Thunderstorms, Light/Dense fog, etc.)
- They would need to implement dynamic weather like Rain, Thunderstorms, Light/Dense fog, etc. (sure we have some but they are static, a constant that grates on the nerves when looking at it from an immersion standpoint)
- They would need to record a bunch of new dialogue for existing characters and NPCs to reflect the change in the cycle/weather and for them to have reactions to you lockpicking your way through their locked doors
- They would need to do a soft rework of the Resting system to accommodate for the cycle ie. implementation of Exhaustion Levels, mainly for not resting through the cycles (Exhaustion Levels as explained in the PHB)
- They would need to scatter some random enemy encounters around the world with nocturnal creatures ie. Gibberlings, Zombies, Ghasts, Vampires, etc. and bandits to help make the world feel alive (can't say how many they would need to add since I haven't been checking the datamines, but its safe to say or just wishful thinking that some of the cannon fodder Night creatures are already in)
- They would need to script new quests that are available only during the Night
- Revisiting all the existing instances and put torches/lamps around certain paths and buildings (otherwise it'll be a very dark place, ie. the encounter at the entrance to the Overgrown Ruins would be done in complete darkness)
- They would need to make one change to the location of all the NPCs, during the Night period.
- Seeing as we have little to no doors that actually house NPCs or Shops right now, they would need to make the Baldurs Gate area have locked doors during the Night (also applies to the Strongholds ie. can't enter the Druid Grove by walking through the gate, have to take the secret passage)
- They would need to take into account all the possible cutscene differences and all of the bugs that would no doubt ensue

Just off the top of my head... Its a lot of work either way with or without my input on what sounds logical. Its all very basic and theres a of issues I haven't even touched.
I honestly hope they implement it as it would add character and memorability of the game. The soundtrack to the game is amazing but it would pack an even bigger punch, changing to a somber tune when the rain and fog start setting in. BG2 would not be the game that it was / is without the change in the atmosphere when the darkness came over the world.
Why is the implementation of the D/N cycle still uncertain?
My guess would be that they set out to make the game without it and backtracking now could make a whole load of problems for them.
I can't possibly assume to know why Larian does the things they do from a design standpoint but a AAA RPG game without a D/N cycle seems like a blunder on their part...
Here's a +1 from me for all its worth.

Make it even 30.
Ultima VII, a game that even Swen Vincke knows very well and claimed to love and admire in the past, had it in 1992. And in a fairly complex form too, one that I wouldn't even ask from Larian, with a lot of reactivity tied to it.

Yeah, seems like gaming studios would realize where they have gone wrong over the last decade or so. Back when we had iconic games like Baldurs Gate, Ultima, Planescape, and others the focus was on the writing and storytelling. Graphics were rudimentary because of hardware limitations, so they used what they had. What they had were mechanics and story. Blizzard gets this, Bethesda toys with it, and most other companies ignore it in favor of rich graphical interfaces, flashy moves, and enormous enemies. And yes, I'm aware that there are other companies such as Obsidian who have decent writers.

I'll be honest, I love rich graphical interfaces with flashy moves and enormous enemies, but if that's all you can muster, then your game will fade into obscurity at best, and end up a fiasco at worst.

In order to tell a good story, you need ambience. You never hear of people telling ghost stories on a saturday morning with cartoons playing in the background because the ambience would be wrong. Instead you tell them around a campfire at night in wooded areas because that is when they will have the most psychological impact.

Even in the dark the ambient lighting is too strong. Instead of having Phase Spiders hanging out in the distance shooting poison (which isn't something they can't actually do in D&D) it should be DARK. The spiders can phase in next to your party members, they don't need to pretend they are archers, because they are spiders. Ranged combat in the dark, especially the Underdark, should be far less reliable then it is on the surface. Cave Fishers would be obvious the way the world is lit in BG3, and these are supposed to be incredibly successful ambush predators. Darkvision is only supposed to extend 30 feet, and light sources in dark places rarely extend your vision past 10, yet I can walk into the OWlbears cave and see everything. I hate to talk about Pathfinder, but they did do darkness appropriately. Larian has dropped the ball here.

Bg3 is running in dos engine which had no d/n cycle therefore bg3 has no d/n cycle by default. I’m assuming at this point they are knee deep in developing the game content and are wrapping up any major game engine changes at this point. Even knowing that I hope they changed their mind and implemented it without showing us yet.

"In order to tell a good story, you need ambience. You never hear of people telling ghost stories on a saturday morning with cartoons playing in the background because the ambience would be wrong. Instead you tell them around a campfire at night in wooded areas because that is when they will have the most psychological impact."


Nahh, it just need a good narrator able to catch the complete attention of the audience so much that they ignore the environment and any sudden rumor can make people jump and shiver.

Spiders can shoot webs (Scytodes thoracica for example) imbued in venom (about this scientist are not sure). Furthermore in a wordl were spiders can tekeport where is the problem if they also shoot venonous webs from distance? O.o.

Moreover human eyes are quite adaptable to dark (a normal human eye in perfect dark can see a single foton).
I like how they are managing the dark in dark places I just hope that they don' continue the road of choosing the part of players that wants a second job more than a pleasure passtime.

[Specially I still hope they will put the story -normal-hard-hell modes so that casual players too can enjoy the game just like professional ones.

I disagree, a scary story will always have more resonance if told at night or in the dark and somewhere remote. A scary story told on a beach in the middle of the day in high summer is unlikely to carry the same weight. There's a reason most scary films and stories aren't generally set on sunlit beaches.

Yes indeed, I'm even having a hard time thinking of a story (film, book, comic, whatever) which succeeds at bringing you a very very captivating dark narrative that completely clashes with the ambience... Sounds like a lot of cognitive dissonance to me in any case. Moreover, even if it is not strictly necessary (for Nobel prize winning writers perhaps, maybe), it seems ludicrous to argue against the idea that a story is positively enhanced by trying to tie it into a matching or at least attempted logically related atmosphere and setting.

The problem is that SPECIFICALLY BY THE RULES DECIDED FOR THIS WORLD Phase spiders are supposed to be among the species of spiders that DO NOT use range attacks and are defined by their phasing ability and their melee attacks.
There are OTHER species of giant spiders that are supposed to have ranged attacks, but Larian doesn't seem to care about the minor nuance.

It's not even just flavor, since changing the abilities of an iconic creature of the D&D bestiary changes entirely the shape of any combat involving them.


Anyway, this is OT and it was already discussed at length in other more pertinent threads more focused on the bestiary, encounter design, etc.

I want CRPG with dynamic weather, if Larian isnt up to it, I hope someone is. No doubt its massive task, especially if Characters/NPCs react to it, I think its a waste if they dont dont. When in heavy rain, girls hair should be wet. They start to feel cold when in heavy snow or sweaty when in humidity etc.

Maybe CDPR, that should boost their company to the next level. I see abit of soft-porn in it, but thats what CDPR do. Their sex scenes are world famous.

I did not see this thread but 100% agree the game needs a day/night cycle. Having played BG1 recently again, it just makes so much a difference in atmosphere and immersiveness.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=810099&gonew=1#UNREAD

Don't waste this opportunity Larian.

Looking at their own games, it's often surprising to me that Larian/Swen are this huge fans of Ultima VII.

Ultima VII is kind of a platonic ideal, and even a stand-out in the Ultima series. It's at least at much a world simulator as it is an RPG. Had Origin continued, and gone down this route in the same way, we'd be dealing with even more complex stuff by now than NPC schedules, day/night/cycles or every item being pick-upable. Like, maybe even a fauna economy, e.g. animals in the world having a life-cycle, being born, maturing, mating, dying, fighting each other and occupying terrorities etc. In Ultima VII, the game world was as much a star as was the protagonist and the plot he unravels.

The DOS games, and neither BG3, aren't anywhere near. They share some similatiries, in that lots of objects are interactive, and that it's all being viewed form an isometric view. But if that upsets Swen, that's about it. Else they're pretty staged and static, and the DOS games with their "level gating" forcing players to tackle any one map in a partiulcar way even more so than BG3. In all of these games, the player is the totally centre stage of anything, and everything is carefully scripted / build for his -- without his involvement and questing, nothing much every changes and moves.

Sure, you could be even further removed from anything Ultima7, but Larian have never been particularly close.

The original BGs, for that matter, have also been comparably static in comparison to anything like it, to be fair. That said, yes, the day/night cycle as well as weather changes provided lots of additional atmosphere, in particular in BG1, which for a bulk of a game had the player's party adventuring the wilds. On the occasion, it was used for further, such as the vampire ambushes in BG2, which naturally would only happen at night.

NOT gonna happen at all, there are NO day/night cycles in DOS1/2 iirc. Larian doesn't play like that.

We'll see

Not useful information.
We are all aware of what Larian did so far, that's not what the discussion is about.

OK. It's been awhile, and I've given Day/Night more thought. I still really really want a Day/Night functionality in the game. Nothing complicated. Just a single button that transitions from Day to Night. Call it the Day/Night or Long Rest button. It will replace the End Day button.

What's the point? I want to be able to travel about the map by night, especially as a drow who is supposed to be sun sensitive. I also want to Long Rest more per day without a single day going by, so it feels more like my characters are doing more per day than what is in the current game. It would, I think, make spellcaster lovers more happy also, for they would be able to renew their spells 2x's a day rather than fight, run out of spells, Long Rest and thus End Day, and then fight once, run out of spells, Long Rest and thus End Day. In other words, instead of making 2 whole days go by, those who love to spam Long Rest would only make 1 day go by, which would make more sense from a story perspective. Besides this, if you transition from Day to Night, you are essentially resting for a LONG period of time, not just an hour or two. You might even rest more to allow for the transition than you would if you slept at night.

So, here's my idea of how the Day/Night button would work. You start on the beach. You travel about. You spot the intellect devourers. Dang! Drow is sun sensitive. That fight will be harder because my drow gets disadvantage. Tool tip pops up. "Some races, like drow, are sensitive to sunlight. They will get disadvantage on rolls while in direct sunlight, or if their targets are in direct sunlight. Disadvantage works by rolling 2d20 and taking the lowest die roll. This will put any characters with sun sensitivity at a serious disadvantage if they travel by day. If your character has this, it is best to use the Day/Night (or Long Rest, whatever you want to call it) button. This button symbolizes that your character is resting and waiting until nightfall (or if it is already night you are resting and waiting until it is dawn) before they continue their travels. You will travel to your camp and gain the benefits of a Long Rest whenever you transition from day to night or night to day. This means you will heal all HP and restore all spell slots and special abilities. It will not use up your 2 Short Rest per day limit so that whether you are traveling by day or by night, you still get 2 Short Rests per Long Rest. Sometimes, party members will talk with you during these rests, so keep an eye out for these dialogue opportunities."

I, being a drow, click Day/Night button, I trigger the finding the campsite scene, and trigger the Shadowheart, "I'm not sure this is such a good idea," dialogue. She would naturally say this, because, in her mind, we're taking a senseless break after only traveling for like 5 minutes. So, naturally, she'd be unhappy to rest for like 12 hours. But you, being a drow, it only makes sense for you to want to travel by night. So you don't care what she thinks. Resting by night so neither you nor your half elf companion get disadvantage on rolls while you travel just makes the most sense.

So, what benefits are there in this?

1. Drow Sun Sensitivity is actually a thing, along with other creatures who have this trait, and traveling by night for a drow would be better than by day. Drow have extended dark vision, so it also provides them with an advantage over other characters who even have dark vision.
2. Advantages on Stealth checks while moving about at night. This is good for certain quests like sneaking into the goblin camp or through Moonhaven or sneaking up on the Hag's place or the Swamp Docks, or sneaking up on the Gnolls or the Gith or pretty much sneaking up on anyone on the surface.
3. Gives players the ability to make time pass within a single day. Thus, players actually have more control over the passage of time.
4. Gives players another opportunity for a Long Rest per day, cutting down on the ridiculous number of days you waste whenever you feel you need to Long Rest. (Like in the Underdark when you fight the minotaurs, need to long rest, fight the bulette, need to long rest, fight the duergar, need to long rest, fight the kua toas, need to long rest, and before you know it, a week's gone by down there because you're long resting after every fight.) Besides this, one of the main purposes of this concept is that you are not punishing players who want to travel most of the surface map by night - such as if you create a drow. If you have to use Short Rests just to get to night every day, then you have no short rests to use on your adventure if you start adventuring at night. So using Short Rests to make time pass from day to night would only make night travel less advantageous than day travel.
5. Gives more opportunities for dialogues to be triggered, such as Shadowheart's dialogue mentioned above or Gale's "Go to Hell," dialogue. If they actually put dialogues/camps on the game map somewhere, though, that would be my preference, but if they keep it as it is currently with off map camps and minicamps, I'd at least like the Day/Night button to trigger dialogues at camp - so have it send players to camp for dialogue purposes. This makes sense from a story perspective as well, because essentially by hitting the Day/Night button you are resting for like 10-12-ish hours. That's a long time, and it makes sense to then rest that long at camp. It also, then, provides more opportunities before you reach the grove to trigger those early dialogues.

I still want Short Rests to also potentially trigger dialogues, but ultimately I think the above change would definitely increase dialogue opportunities.

Please please please, Larian. We need Day/Night functionality in this game. It would REALLY make a huge world of difference.

Did you know that sun sensitivity (or was it light?) IS actualy a thing in this game?
Duergars from Grymforge have it when you inspect them ... sometimes i wonder if there is any way to use it, since cantrip Light didnt cause them to attack with disadvantage.

But maybe there are some plans!

I like the suggestion ... all of it except two long rests per day ... that would have to mean that our long rest took only 6h. :-/ And that seesm awfull.

It's possible we'll get Dawn (5th level spell) and Sunbeam (6th) later in the game. Not sure if it will matter by then though.

It's sun, not light, and yes, they may give us Daylight as a spell.

Still, the point is when I create a drow, who also is listed as sun sensitive, I don't have any issues on the surface. Chalk it up to the tadpole I guess, especially since Minthara also attacks the grove by day and doesn't have an issue.

Regardless, the other points still are quite valid, even if they use the whole "tadpole lets you go by day unaffected" bit.

And a long rest is standard 8 hours-ish. Daytime is 12 and Night is 12. That's 4 hours of adventuring by day and 4 by night. Elves only need to rest 4 per long rest. Yes, D&D rules state 1 long per day, but I'm suggesting a homebrew because it's a video game. Also, in the previous BG games, you had a clock, and each long rest was about 8 hours. So it would be more in line with the previous titles.

Woah. Im gone from these forums for 6 months and this topic is still a thing.... Or again. Not entirely sure.

Inclusion or lack of a day/night cycle is I feel a design choice. I wonder if the people saying 'its easy to implement' can say that with any degree of certainty. Do you work with Larian's engine? Is such a thing even an option in their engine? Does Larian themselves think it would add anything?

At the end of the day they need to make the game and if they feel it wouldnt add to much I very much doubt its going to happen.

As to what it would add. Erm. Not that much I feel. Mostly stealth options. Maybe different encounters compared to the day for nocturnal entities and/or bandits and I feel that would kind of be it. Maybe different npc's that are awake and others that are asleep. I honestly dont feel that would warrant changes to their engine.

I believe I already mentioned a plethora of reasons why it would be important to implement Day/Night:

To summarize:

Suggesting replace Long Rest button with a single button that transitions from Day to Night. Call it Long Rest button instead of End Day.

Reasons:
1. Ambience. Night travel in an RPG is fun for a lot of people. It creates a whole different atmosphere.

2. Long Rest 2x per day, so it feels more like my characters are doing more per day than what is in the current game. As it is, my characters wake up, adventure 5-10 minutes, and someone says they need to call it a day. It's been a long day. Adventure a little, rest a lot. That's BG3 right now. The grove ritual lasts for days upon days and never completes. Wyll never gets upset about not going after Spike even after a week - same with Lae'zel and the Gith, etc. Half the number of days that pass because you can do 2 Long Rests per day, and suddenly it makes more sense that the ritual isn't complete yet, Lae'zel hasn't left the party, and same with Wyll.

3. Drow and other creatures are sun sensitive. It's kinda a big deal. They could and should actually implement sun sensitivity since they even list it on various characters in the game. But IF they implement it, and then force Drow, etc. to take disadvantage because they have to roam in the sun, that's dumb. They should only implement it IF they give us Day/Night so Drow can actually stay out of the sun like they're supposed to.

4. Drow have superior dark vision, but many races have dark vision. This gives them an advantage over humans and other non-dark vision races. The Gith patrol, for example, would be much easier to win - and a new, more intelligent strategy - if you fought them at night. Astarion and others could remain in the shadows. Thus, enemies would get disadvantage on attack rolls against them if they remained outside the light. That could be an incredible strategy to turn the tide of that very tough fight on the surface. This alone turns the game on its head and adds a whole new level of strategy.

5. Advantages on Stealth checks while moving about at night. This is good for certain quests like sneaking into the goblin camp or through Moonhaven or sneaking up on the Hag's place or the Swamp Docks, or sneaking up on the Gnolls or the Gith or pretty much sneaking up on anyone on the surface.

6. Gives players the ability to make time pass within a single day. Thus, players actually have more control over the passage of time. How could this come into play? You see the burning Waukeen's Rest Inn. You play through the scenario. You Long Rest. It's night. The inn is no longer burning. Still the same day, but time has passed. A bit more immersion.