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What decade is this?

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what, you don't like having to awkwardly hold the mouse wheel down with your middle finger or having to take your index finger off the mouse?? wink

It reminds me of playing monster hunter on the psp

Last edited by Boblawblah; 26/02/21 10:16 PM.
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it's a third person adventure game. these ergodic controls have been standard for over two decades.

once again, Larian changing things for the sake of "being different" rather than actual functionality.

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Not sure if it is different with Steam or Stadia but with Steam you can. Rebind the Toggle Camera Rotate option.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
What decade is this?
A decade where any decent gaming mouse has at least 1 side button you can rebind to?

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@Zarna: Rebinding right mouse to camera rotation breaks several other hard coded functions. It isn't a fully functional fix.

@Elessaria666: 99% of 3rd person games use right mouse to rotate camera. Larian is being contrary for the sake of being contrary, not for the sake of improving interface.

This is 100% a limitation of the Divinity engine, and one more reason why this is just a DOS clone.

Last edited by tsundokugames; 27/02/21 03:46 AM.
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Can you tell me what it is breaking? I rebound right click to something else and so far haven't noticed any issues yet.

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If you bind right click to rotate camera, it completely disables the context menu unless you bind it to some other, equally awkward as middle mouse for rotate camera, key.

No other game in existence that I know of has this problem.

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Glad to hear it isn't something worse, was afraid it was going to be something that screwed up the whole game. I have a gaming mouse and rebound that to one of my thumb buttons. I would prefer that we had an option to use movement keys for our characters like most other games, rather than just the camera, can agree that there are some awkward controls in this.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
it's a third person adventure game.
No, its not. Still, many top down games have better and more intuitive controls then what Larian provides. Luckily my knew mouse has handy side buttons. Anything ties to middle mouse button always frustrated me, especially when one needs to hold it.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
@Elessaria666: 99% of 3rd person games use right mouse to rotate camera. Larian is being contrary for the sake of being contrary, not for the sake of improving interface.
I mean, it isn't but that's kinda besides the point. I completely agree middle mouse was a really odd choice to bind it to, but I guess you can't default keybind side buttons until literally every mouse you can buy has one, and we aren't there quite yet.

It is, however, FAR more intuitive to use that than right click, whilst maintaining the fact that we have been right clicking to access extended drop down menu functions since, like, Windows 3.1.

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I am still trying to figure out why camera controls, that can be hot keyed however you want, is a limitation of the engine? A limitation would be NOT being able to rebind the camera key. I have a binding set for all my actions I use across all games, and it worked just fine in this one as well. Now if you want to talk about some of the bugs in regards to the camera itself, I can see that. But the idea that just because action assignments aren't the way you want them to be by default, when you can change them to match your play style is some limitation of the engine, seems kind of silly.

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What part of "every other game can have a right click context menu AND camera control on right mouse except Larian games" makes it difficult for you to understand my complaint here?

This isn't about the ability to rebind controls.

This is about Larian stubbornly changing STANDARDS for no reason other than to be different. This is not besides my point. This IS my point. You don't get to tell me that my point isn't the point I am making.

Last edited by tsundokugames; 27/02/21 06:26 PM.
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No-one is saying the point you are making isn't the point you are making. We are saying your point is fairly pointless. Bringing up the subject of who gets to tell who what is interesting. Do you work for Larian? If not...

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Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by tsundokugames
@Elessaria666: 99% of 3rd person games use right mouse to rotate camera. Larian is being contrary for the sake of being contrary, not for the sake of improving interface.
I mean, it isn't but that's kinda besides the point.


Actually, you literally did. I elaborated that I was talking about Larian's game design, not the ability to simply rebind controls, and you told me that is besides the point because I can rebind controls, even if you agree that MM is awkward.

I swear to god some of you don't actually process things before responding sometimes.

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by tsundokugames
@Elessaria666: 99% of 3rd person games use right mouse to rotate camera. Larian is being contrary for the sake of being contrary, not for the sake of improving interface.
I mean, it isn't but that's kinda besides the point.


Actually, you literally did. I elaborated that I was talking about Larian's game design, not the ability to simply rebind controls, and you told me that is besides the point because I can rebind controls, even if you agree that MM is awkward.

I swear to god some of you don't actually process things before responding sometimes.
You do know you can rebind the controls, right?

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Originally Posted by tsundokugames
I swear to god some of you don't actually process things before responding sometimes.
Quoted for irony.

What I said was besides the point was that this is not a 3rd Person game. Because that is not the point you originally made. I even quoted it there for you. This is a top-down isometric game. I wasn't going to knit-pick but then you decided to bring the snark. Your original point is still pointless. It's Larian's game to make. You have zero right to tell them how to make it, let alone in a rude manner. You paid for the finished game they release. They never made any bones about the fact that Early Access is not being sold. They explicitly stated that that is why EA is full price. You are buying the finished product at that price and they will let you into EA as a freebee.

Let's say I make pots. You want to buy a pot that I am still making. I say fine, this is what I charge to make a pot, but this one isn't finished. You can buy it, but I don't know exactly what it'll end up like. You say fine, here's my money. Presumably after looking at other pots I've made. Maybe this is a pot made from a different material, or using a different technique than my previous pots. Now you say "Wait a minute why did you make that bit like that? I don't like that! You just did that on purpose to be contrary for the sake of being contrary! What kind of idiot pot maker are you?".

In what world do you think I am then in any way inclined to be all like, "Oh, sure. Since you asked so NICELY I am now totally motivated to make the PERFECT pot just for you. Nevermind this pot. Draw me a picture of the pot YOU want. Better yet, take a photograph of another pot you like and bring it to show me!"

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I only discovered this last night (thanks to a Zarna assist - honestly hugely helpful there, thanks again!), but its not exactly the simplest thing to do even when you know what you're trying to achieve. After finally getting it work after like 5 months, and then playing around some more yesterday, I was able to figure out why it wasn't working for me initially.

First you have to clear the keybind for center mouse click and assign that to right click. You'll get a prompt asking if you if you want to remove all the keybinds associated with right click. Make sure you do that and then reassign the "context" one. Because if you keep both it will fritz out. I think the context menu bind was overriding the rotation bind. Actually I have no idea, all I know is that it didn't work for me before and I had tried more than a couple times.

The other keybind for right click is cancel action, which is actually a very common click for this game, especially in the earlier patches. Before if you left clicked the wrong a spell/action accidentally, or changed your mind before executing it, then left clicking another action immediately wouldn't do anything, instead you'd have to cancel the action first with a right click before being able activate a different interaction with left click. I think this has been improved since patch 4, since I notice it a lot less now. Unfortunately casting when the target is "self" (with a second left click to confirm spell etc) the game still doesn't seem to work for that via the character's own portrait. It works via portraits for the other party members if casting on someone else, but for self you have to let click the avatar to confirm. That's not exactly the same issue, though it might have played into the right click wig out for me, since have cancel and cam rotation/context seemed to brain freeze it.

As to whether this is supposed to be a 3rd person adventure game, or a top down god mode game...I think the tricky part is that the game isn't exactly exclusively a top-down Iso platformer, or exclusively a driving cam type game, but rather a hybrid of the two. It's clearly trying to cater to both playstyles, and watching Sven play the game kind of clued us into that in a pretty pronounced way. I actually find the game much more appealing with a drive cam for anything outside of the TB tactical combat.

In a top down or Iso game traditionally there is no horizon and no line of site that needs to be managed. In Iso we never see the sky, or confront stuff like peripheral glancing or the parallax effect or Y axis disorientation or anything else that happens when normal vision is presented in 3d POV style. Instead, if Iso style, then we have the eye in the sky and that works just fine. But when you do both, especially when the environments are this detailed and gorgeous and the camera zoom allows you to mimic an almost driving cam mode if you zoom all the way in, then the kinks of not having a standard ball camera for the drive mode starts to press in on things. In a POV or 3rd person over-the-shoulder type driving-camera game there is a strong need to manage the line of site, and comfortable cam control is pretty essential so that our view in the game can mirror how we use our line of site in real life without disorientation.

3D games have been trying to pull off the seamless hybrid Top down to Driving thing for a while, and so many players are used to certain conventions there. I think it is worth considering how the defaults work. I generally don't mess around with keybind defaults unless something is really uncomfortable for me, and even then sometimes its hard to determine or articulate what exactly it is that is causing the frustration.

Learning about or discussing game Controls is kind of like trying to learn or talk about Grammar in your native language. One those things where we intuitively understand what works and what doesn't, but where it can be hard to parse or explain why exactly, without having the technical terms or another language to compare. We just kind of pick it up and internalize it as we go, but can be at pains to describe what's happening or parse things, since we're used to just using the language rather than trying to describe/explain how its beings used. Or especially if you're dyslexic or just a shitty typist like me haha. I don't also have a gaming mouse, since I play this on the laptop and use the little guy which is the now standard 3 button type mouse with the center scroller. I think I'd have more fun with a controller and a thumbstick, but gotta work with what I got. I might have bought this thing on Stadia, but not really looking to sign up for a new service just to play BG3. (Although there was a point when I might have, after it was first announced I'd have probably signed up for anything including disney+ and hbomax if it meant a new Baldur's Gate sequel lol. But I already got it on steam, so that die has been cast.

Or to pick up on the ceramics analogy, its sort of like trying to talk about the potters wheel, or texturing, or glazing, or how to make an awesome amphora in such and such a style, knowing what you like, but being a total neophyte and not really having the terms to describe it I guess lol. I also feel like EA is a bit like being invited into the studio or getting to watch stuff get made or fired in the kiln (and hopefully not exploding from air bubbles) whereas swooping something on consignment from the gallery shop would be a different vibe. I'm here also because I'm interested in game design, but now all I can think about is Demi Moore in Ghosts heheh. The perfect pot!

But yeah, just to say that I had struggled mightily with the center mouse click, and failed my first few attempts to bind an alt scheme. I'm certainly a lot happier with right click to rotate.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 27/02/21 10:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I'm here also because I'm interested in game design, but now all I can think about is Demi Moore in Ghosts heheh. The perfect pot!
If only she'd had an Amulet of Talk To The Dead it would have been a much shorter movie... laugh

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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I only discovered this last night (thanks to a Zarna assist - honestly hugely helpful there, thanks again!), but its not exactly the simplest thing to do even when you know what you're trying to achieve. After finally getting it work after like 5 months, and then playing around some more yesterday, I was able to figure out why it wasn't working for me initially.

First you have to clear the keybind for center mouse click and assign that to right click. You'll get a prompt asking if you if you want to remove all the keybinds associated with right click. Make sure you do that and then reassign the "context" one. Because if you keep both it will fritz out. I think the context menu bind was overriding the rotation bind. Actually I have no idea, all I know is that it didn't work for me before and I had tried more than a couple times.

The other keybind for right click is cancel action, which is actually a very common click for this game, especially in the earlier patches. Before if you left clicked the wrong a spell/action accidentally, or changed your mind before executing it, then left clicking another action immediately wouldn't do anything, instead you'd have to cancel the action first with a right click before being able activate a different interaction with left click. I think this has been improved since patch 4, since I notice it a lot less now. Unfortunately casting when the target is "self" (with a second left click to confirm spell etc) the game still doesn't seem to work for that via the character's own portrait. It works via portraits for the other party members if casting on someone else, but for self you have to let click the avatar to confirm. That's not exactly the same issue, though it might have played into the right click wig out for me, since have cancel and cam rotation/context seemed to brain freeze it.

As to whether this is supposed to be a 3rd person adventure game, or a top down god mode game...I think the tricky part is that the game isn't exactly exclusively a top-down Iso platformer, or exclusively a driving cam type game, but rather a hybrid of the two. It's clearly trying to cater to both playstyles, and watching Sven play the game kind of clued us into that in a pretty pronounced way. I actually find the game much more appealing with a drive cam for anything outside of the TB tactical combat.

In a top down or Iso game traditionally there is no horizon and no line of site that needs to be managed. In Iso we never see the sky, or confront stuff like peripheral glancing or the parallax effect or Y axis disorientation or anything else that happens when normal vision is presented in 3d POV style. Instead, if Iso style, then we have the eye in the sky and that works just fine. But when you do both, especially when the environments are this detailed and gorgeous and the camera zoom allows you to mimic an almost driving cam mode if you zoom all the way in, then the kinks of not having a standard ball camera for the drive mode starts to press in on things. In a POV or 3rd person over-the-shoulder type driving-camera game there is a strong need to manage the line of site, and comfortable cam control is pretty essential so that our view in the game can mirror how we use our line of site in real life without disorientation.

3D games have been trying to pull off the seamless hybrid Top down to Driving thing for a while, and so many players are used to certain conventions there. I think it is worth considering how the defaults work. I generally don't mess around with keybind defaults unless something is really uncomfortable for me, and even then sometimes its hard to determine or articulate what exactly it is that is causing the frustration.

Learning about or discussing game Controls is kind of like trying to learn or talk about Grammar in your native language. One those things where we intuitively understand what works and what doesn't, but where it can be hard to parse or explain why exactly, without having the technical terms or another language to compare. We just kind of pick it up and internalize it as we go, but can be at pains to describe what's happening or parse things, since we're used to just using the language rather than trying to describe/explain how its beings used. Or especially if you're dyslexic or just a shitty typist like me haha. I don't also have a gaming mouse, since I play this on the laptop and use the little guy which is the now standard 3 button type mouse with the center scroller. I think I'd have more fun with a controller and a thumbstick, but gotta work with what I got. I might have bought this thing on Stadia, but not really looking to sign up for a new service just to play BG3. (Although there was a point when I might have, after it was first announced I'd have probably signed up for anything including disney+ and hbomax if it meant a new Baldur's Gate sequel lol. But I already got it on steam, so that die has been cast.

Or to pick up on the ceramics analogy, its sort of like trying to talk about the potters wheel, or texturing, or glazing, or how to make an awesome amphora in such and such a style, knowing what you like, but being a total neophyte and not really having the terms to describe it I guess lol. I also feel like EA is a bit like being invited into the studio or getting to watch stuff get made or fired in the kiln (and hopefully not exploding from air bubbles) whereas swooping something on consignment from the gallery shop would be a different vibe. I'm here also because I'm interested in game design, but now all I can think about is Demi Moore in Ghosts heheh. The perfect pot!

But yeah, just to say that I had struggled mightily with the center mouse click, and failed my first few attempts to bind an alt scheme. I'm certainly a lot happier with right click to rotate.

A voice of reason and understanding. Hear hear!

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