Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Please take this critique in regards to relationships kindly

100% in agreement. I will repeat myself from another thread, the Pathfinder games handled companion relationships correctly, though I didn't bring up the romances in that game. Those games had zero approval system among the companions. If they ever disapproved with anything you did (or anyone else in the party, for that matter, which is something you'll see in spades in WotR), they would outright interject with interesting party banter, instead of the silent '____ disapproves' like most other RPGs would do.

(What did I mean by something you'll see in spades in WotR? There's some party banter that can potentially happen between 2-3 party members at once. In one notable case...)


You could not romance everyone in Kingmaker either, everyone had their own preferences (and several companions had a different focus in life that made them uninterested in any kind of romance at all). Romancing a companion in Kingmaker was something you had to earn throughout the whole game by talking to them in downtime, finding common ground with them, and most progress was dependent on how you handle their personal arcs too. Hell, you could accidentally romance them, and they had the maturity to not act like it's the end of the world if you end up friendzoning them in the end.

Really, people tend to act like the writing of the Pathfinder games weren't anything special (probably centering on the subject matter most of all), but the actual presentation of it is leagues ahead of most other modern cRPGs.

I remember someone on Reddit made a post praising BG3's writing for daring to have companions take the initiative in asking you out first, but I argue that it actually cheapens their characterization for them to all universally do it at the same point so early in the game. Making literally everyone romanceable also means that the community in the end will just default to only caring about the romances in many cases, with almost everything else about them being sidelined in comparison. You can kind of already see this happening with Astarion especially.

I was really quite taken with how companionship and relationships were handled in Pillars of Eternity. The build up was gradual and you felt you were getting to know the other character rather than just playing some color-by-numbers mini game to unlock a cringey sex scene.

This is true only if you are a firm believer in sexual preferences is what defines people and that you are your group identity. What you perceive as the "trendy" thing is the rational response from developers who see beyond gender tribalism; inclusivity without using lots of resources on making token characters that revolve around their sexual preference.

DA:I's Dorian was one such character. Lots of drama, muh oppression! But less relatability due to the ham-fisted insert of present-day navel-gazing identity politics in a world burning with very real issues that broke the spell of immersion and suspension of disbelief like nobody's business. Your ideal character if we follow the extent of your logic. On the other hand, they also made Bull, which was made into an all-eating sexual tyrannosaurus. Not many would accuse Bull of being a bland character without flair let me tell you. Not really relatable either though.



...or, much, much, more likely given the prevailing political winds, a heterosexual character that forms a deep gay connection with the main character. The other thing would be "sexual conversion therapy". See where this is going?

Instead of a selection of two males and two females, you get one woman who likes men, one woman who likes women, one man who likes women, one man who likes men. One choice for most. Or we could crawl further down the rabbit hole...by making more of them! With the unavoidable consequence that each is given less resources to flesh out because resources are finite. More is better, right? Now you're not really getting more real choices, and have pretty much guaranteed each being more bland. Congratulations.

I have long been a strong proponent for romances as a deeper, more personal motivation than killing the baddie, stealing his loot and saving the world. But this is the kind of thing that makes me want to go Josh Sawyer/Aliens and nuke the site from orbit.


https://external-preview.redd.it/73...a99ddf5f9171edd1fd88def3154cc3732a5aaaa2

Unless it is narratively purposive, romance has no place in a video game.

This made me smile . It also made me wonder though, she Astarion rejects us now, do you have to broach the subject with him or is it like how it was with Laessi (at least previously, I haven't reached that far on patch 4) and they immediately start telling you about how you could be having sex with them if only you had made the right decisions as soon as you initiate dialogue as if you could have no other reason to talk to them?

Because the only thing that annoyed me more than the "everybody wants to fuck the PC at the same time" immatureness was the "everybody who don't enough approval to want to fuck you also have to make that known to you at that very moment" ridiculousity.



Shadowheart doesn't approve of food sex!



From my pre-patch-4 playthroughs it always seemed like SH gets improvements in smaller amounts than say Gale, possibly because different writers/coders. Gale is like super buddies with you after just a few interactions but SH lingers in the neutro-zone much longer. I've had to abuse the Scratch exploit to actually make her approval go up to the high class before.

Damn, that Hellknight character sounds very awesome, and it suddenly made me remember Kingmaker is one of the few games that i can think of where evil doesn't equate stupid(most of all for the MC). Probably gonna fire it up as soon as i'm done with BG3.

It's also funny that the (heterosexual) romances in Kingmaker aren't as cringey as they have every right to be, considering all of them, bar Valerie's, deal with some pretty out of the norm stuff.

And if anything, really, the only real drawback is that the game is so big that at times it feels like characters/relationship freeze in time until the next story beat comes, Kanerah and Kalikke's whole thing most especially. And i think regular relationships suffer from the same too, what with every companion being more or less awesome but not there being nearly enough to talk about with them during all the time it takes for their personal quests to advance.

Having said that, Jaethal is still my char's murder wife, and the game taking its time to present the characters leads to the quiet drink with Valerie feeling ten times as significant than the one with Shadowheart.

Just because something means different things to different people does not mean they are all factually or clinically accurate. I have friends who think it will upset me if they move the nail scissors on my dressing table, or change where bottles are in my fridge. I have friends who call themselves OCD because they wrote all their lecture notes in strict colour coded manner, or insist on specific "correct" protocol in making a cup of tea. In any case we are WELL beyond a light thread derail at this point so out of politeness towards the OP let's leave it there...

I agree completely but they seem to have quite a bit of emphasis in the game? Can we assume Larian think it’s an important and appealing game mechanic?


No, you are far from alone. Personally I hold no interest in in-game romances and cinematic sex scenes.

Ideally I feel that if you’re going to include romances in a game like this, then they they should be an embellishment at most, not integral, not in-your-face and ultimately should feel natural, not something that is prevalent from the get-go. I find it a bit problematic that the game assumes I want to pursue a romance by making the companions want to jump my bones so soon. Granted I haven’t played the recent patch so am not sure how the romance options work now.

That is all true. And very odd. There might be a chance it's a bug - her exp is bugged so who knows what else is bugged. I'm not sure what would have changed between Patch 3 and 4 despite a few voice lines added here and there. And I'm not sure why I got her romance scene, but you didn't - after doing the same things you did in patch 3 that led to it. It might not be a bug, and maybe an action no longer grants approval without going further into the dialogue tree. (Saving Sazza for example gains party disapproval in a different part of that confrontation from what I can tell).

Judging from the datamined voicelines in Patch 3 Larian might be tweaking how SH opens up to the player. From the lines it almost feels like they know some players find SH hard to get to know, and its the writers intent that players should try.

The approval system and the romances are definitely buggy right now - when you get em it's great - when you don't its frustrating. I know people in this thread don't seem to like them, but the approval isn't just there for romance - I'm pretty sure somewhere down the line approval is going to determine whether some party members stand by your side or not at key moments. If you have these characters along at all, you probably want them to at least tolerate you, otherwise you're just harboring an enemy in your midst. You're not going to be able to pull this off in a narratively rewarding way by just having a trigger point for betrayal or loyalty that doesn't take into account how you've treated them this whole time.

This is one of my major concerns in general, and something I am very excited to see Larian cope with. When it comes to companion relationships in general in RPGs (I am not just speaking of romance now, but *all* kind of relationships) - having conversations locked to the main story often results in rather... Clunky experiences at the wrong time and place, at least for me, where there is an awkward silence during long periods of time - only to have *all* companions requesting your attention at the same time as soon as the story starts progressing *cough PoE2 and DOS2*.

I realize that some conversations and some development obviously must be halted until the main story has been progressed appropriately, since well... Obviously I'd expect there to be certain conversations *regarding* certain main story events that, for obvious reasons, should not pop up unless the player has actually gone through the appropriate encounters. ... But I often feel like my character's and companion's relationships goes on a full halt for long periods of time, especially in CRPGs where the main story is short but there is loads of side-content *cough PoE2 cough*.

So... I guess that in general I'd just like to see Larian keep doing what they already are doing. The companions in BG3 have a lot of proper conversations with the PC - and I hope it remains that way - so that I don't feel like I am playing by yourself while "in-between" quests. Bonding with my companions and seeing their personal development, and also my PC's and the companions' development together (both romance and non-romance) is a big part of RPGs for me... And unfortunately something that I've found lacking in many RPGs/CRPGs that I've tried.

Are we even playing the same game? You know, the game containing a certain celebration part where at the very same time every companion wants to either jump you (OK, in case of SH not _exactly_) or make it very clear to you that you have not farmed enough points to make them want to jump you?

@Elessaria666 thanks for the answer, that's really interesting to hear about.

On topic:

I've said it before, but having no build up other than just adventuring together for a few weeks and then suddenly on the same night they all decide to either fuck or not is just really immature. With Lae'zel, it sort of makes sense with her race but it's hard to believe that literally everyone in Faerun is the same way.

That said, I should have seen this coming when I saw the sex storyboard. Spending that much time/energy on sex scenes in an rpg that isn't straight up porn was a clue to their focus for the relationships.

Oddly enough, SWTOR, while silly in how you get someone to like you (just flirt a bunch of times), the relationships have a more mature feel to them.

You forgot the millions in credits buying gifts to get max approval...

lol, that at least isn't related to actual approval, that's just combat efficiency, but yes that is silly

No. Someone else's SUFFERING FROM A MENTAL DISORDER is not your fad-like description for wanting things your way. You completely ignored the point I was making.

You seem to think it is some privilege to call yourself OCD. This is insulting.

That's because she has NO TASTE!

Quit the shouting, the confrontational tone, and the whole discussion about OCD. Stick to BG3 .

EDIT: Given that you are an alt account created to evade a ban, you can also quit the forums.

Good question! I don't know, I really hope they have decided to change that.

On the new voiced lined. Each new patch comes with new voice lines. I don't know if Larian has many different options recorded or if they have those actors on some sort of retainer and they just keep coming back. If it's the second than romance banters wouldn't be out of the question.

I see what you did there.

Well that's because you do.