Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
I guess somebody said this before, but I cannot find it at the moment.

In dialogue, when you put your mouse over a skill check you already see your skill value. Show us the DC too and the rolling dice would give no new information.
When you right click something and select an action that requires a roll (pick lock, disarm trap and so on) show that this option is a skill check like you do in dialogue.

so please:
- Give us the option to show or hide the rolling dice.
You made this animation so you might as well show it, but give us the option to hide it.
I played Kingmaker, it has tons of dice rolls just like BG3 and I never missed viewing rolling dice.
- I also like to have the option NOT to show the dice when rolling a natural 20 during combat.
- Please show us ALL rolls in the log.
For example lock picking and some other things are not shown.

Last edited by Madscientist; 10/03/21 08:53 AM.

groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Oh please yes definitely +1.

This thing is so immersion breaking and so slow.
I'm pissed of those rolls.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 10/03/21 06:53 AM.

French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
Joined: Feb 2021
P
addict
Offline
addict
P
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Madscientist
I guess somebody said this before, but I cannot find it at the moment.

In dialogue, when you put your mouse over a skill check you already see your skill value. Show us the DC too and the rolling dice would give no new information.
When you right click something and select an action that requires a roll (pick lock, disarm trap and so on) show that this option is a skill check like you do in dialogue.

so please:
- Give us the option to show or hide the rolling dice.
You made this animation so you might as well shop it, but give us the option to hide it.
I played Kingmaker, it has tons of dice rolls just like BG3 and I never missed viewing rolling dice.
- I also like to have the option NOT to show the dice when rolling a natural 20 during combat.
- Please show us ALL rolls in the log.
For example lock picking and some other things are not shown.

I do agree that they 20 crit hit on the dice during battle is obnoxious. Basically it hides all the action. The overall dice rolling doesn't bother me that much though. Maybe move it lower on the HUD and over to either the left or right side.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Since this topic is about dices, i would like to add request of changing Advantage and Disadvantage rolls in conversations ... and guide. :-/

Advantage specificly tells us "roll two dices and pick higher number" ...
Disadvantage specificly tells us "roll two dices and pick lower number" ...
(Im not sure if we even have disadvantage for conversations, or skillchecks but that is not the point here)
Right now what games do is allowing us re-roll for free is we dont pass ...
I mean that is fine, kinda ... but i would REALLY love to see two dices rolled simultaneously, than that ... for one its twice as fast, for two it looks better, and for three its much easier to see then if we do, or do not use advantage.

Simmilar to Guide ...
Please when Guide is apllied, simply add another 4 sided dice that will be rolled simultaneously with our 20d ... same reasons as abowe.

Now to OP:
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Show us the DC too
I dont like this part ...
The rest is fine, but this part ... i dunno. :-/

There is reason why no Dungeon Master ever tells to his group that "deception roll will be twice as hard as persuation roll in this conversation" ...
I know, you can totally say that we still will be able to choose based on our character roleplay, instead of DC ... and you would be right, there is no harm, so im not exactly agains it ... its just odd and i dont like it very much, that is all. :-/
Set this optional and i would be most happy Ragnarok on this forum. laugh


If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
Joined: Oct 2020
L
addict
Offline
addict
L
Joined: Oct 2020
Yes showing us both dice when there’s advantage/disadvantage and highlighting the one that is used for the result is the best way to get new players to understand the concept. I can’t believe this isn’t in the game already.

Joined: Feb 2021
JoB Offline
Banned
Offline
Banned
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
There is reason why no Dungeon Master ever tells to his group that "deception roll will be twice as hard as persuation roll in this conversation" ...

I agree.

As much as I'd like to know the DCs, they shouldn't be known. Sometimes you can use context to guess which DC will be easier. I like that. For instance, it might be easier to intimidate a goblin than to use persuasion because a goblin might respect intimidation more.

Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
OK, not showing DC is fine. (then why do they show the target when you see the dice?)

I agree that if they show dice and you have (dis)advantage both dice should be shown.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Aug 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
I like seeing rolling dice, and would like to see them for attacks too in some small not-in-your-face kind of way, but the animation for ability checks is painfully slow. That combined with the dice taking center stage and blurring everything else out is a bit much.

The skill check dice could already be somewhere less prominently on screen during dialogue, and selecting the ability/skill check option could already activate the roll without needing an entire second screen for that.

The whole crit camera and the giant dice obscuring the view is really messy and unimpressive for a critical hit. Where's the impact? Why is the die being cut in half? That's not what we are attacking. Why is it focusing on the d20 instead of the action? It's just all kinds of wrong.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by Madscientist
OK, not showing DC is fine. (then why do they show the target when you see the dice?)
At that point, there is no turning back ... you only find out how much you screwed with this dialogue option ... and now few seonds of tension starts. laugh


If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
Joined: Mar 2021
W
stranger
Offline
stranger
W
Joined: Mar 2021
I agree with getting rid of the dice, or at least making it smaller and quicker. It takes up too much time and freezes the game when the dice come up. I don't want the dice to break the flow of the game.

Joined: Aug 2014
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
The failure/success is pretty dramatic being so big visually with sound effects and all. The game kind of rubs it in your face that you failed something important. But failing to persuade someone or missing some minor detail isn't that big of a deal in the end. I'm sure the failure wouldn't feel so bad if it wasn't emphasised beyond its significance by the game.

Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
After some thinking I had the idea that now showing the DC, including not showing it when you roll, might be good to fight save scumming.
You try something and the game tells you if you succeed or fail.
You do not know if you rolled a 1 when a 2 would have been enough or if it is almost impossible because the DC is super high.

Maybe this could be an optional "immersive mode". In the real world you do not know your exact chances of success if you try something. You can guess that some things are harder than others, but your guesses can be wrong.
This might include not showing % values.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Originally Posted by Madscientist
After some thinking I had the idea that now showing the DC, including not showing it when you roll, might be good to fight save scumming.
You try something and the game tells you if you succeed or fail.
You do not know if you rolled a 1 when a 2 would have been enough or if it is almost impossible because the DC is super high.

Maybe this could be an optional "immersive mode". In the real world you do not know your exact chances of success if you try something. You can guess that some things are harder than others, but your guesses can be wrong.
This might include not showing % values.
This would be my preference, but I might take it a step further and not even tell the player if they succeed or fail - just show you through the result.

Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
I kind of agree.
In most cases it is obvious if you succeed or fail.

You try to pick a lock? If its open after your try you succeeded.
Did you try to convince somebody to let you pass? If they let you through you succeeded.

But for the sake of "immersion mode" it would feel better without such messages. It feels more like a living world and not like a series of dice rolls for skill checks.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
The other reason not to show fail/succeed is that it allows for gradations of responses (mostly in conversation, but potentially applicable everywhere). Examples:

Trying to persuade someone to let you pass. Different responses depending on your result:
Below 8: They are so offended by something you say that they attack you.
8-12: They know you're not supposed to be here and say so.
13-16: They hint that they would be willing to accept a bribe in order to let you past.
17-20: They let you pass.
21+: They let you pass and do something else useful (e.g. give you a map, fill you in on some juicy gossip, or send someone along to show you the way and guide you through the traps).

Trying to pick a lock on a chest:
Below 5: You irreparably damage the lock, making it impossible to open the chest, even with the key.
5-7: You fail, break your pick, and make some noise, potentially drawing unwanted attention.
8-10: You fail and break your pick.
11-14: You fail.
15-18: You break your pick, but manage to open the lock.
19+: You open the lock.

You don't need to have this many levels of success on every single check, but it would be really cool to have these kinds of things come up from time to time. It would work best if there is no known DC for the check.

Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
I think in this game rolls have only two possible outcomes, success or fail.
The game has a huge amount of choices already.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Originally Posted by Madscientist
I think in this game rolls have only two possible outcomes, success or fail.
I don't know what this means. Are you trying to describe how BG3 is right now? Yes, they only use success or fail. It's the bare minimum and it's part of why people complain about RNG feeling punishing. If you are trying to convince someone of something in a conversation, you don't either succeed or fail outright. There are shades of grey.

I'm not saying that all of those shades of grey have to be represented in BG3, but having that sort of thing peppered around the game can make the world feel a lot more convincing. It can make conversations feel more real. It can make failure feel less punishing and more interesting. Good DMs often know how to incorporate this kind of thing into their storytelling.

Originally Posted by Madscientist
The game has a huge amount of choices already.
I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

Joined: Sep 2015
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2015
The devs have to program every possible outcome of every choice in the game.
The game has already tons of choices or skill checks where the result influences tons of other things.
And thats just when you have to select option 1,2 or 3 or if a skill check can either succeed or fail.
If you add more possible outcomes to every skill checks as you suggested, the amount of work that this causes would raise exponentially.

This game has already more reactivity than I have ever seen in any game, and thats great.
If the devs had infinite time and money to create content and fix all bugs, your idea would be great.
At the moment I would be happy if the devs can fix bugs in the current system so your choices result in a consistent story.
If you want 5 possible outcomes for each skill check, you can wait at least 3 more years for this game.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Originally Posted by Madscientist
The devs have to program every possible outcome of every choice in the game.
The game has already tons of choices or skill checks where the result influences tons of other things.
And thats just when you have to select option 1,2 or 3 or if a skill check can either succeed or fail.
If you add more possible outcomes to every skill checks as you suggested, the amount of work that this causes would raise exponentially.

This game has already more reactivity than I have ever seen in any game, and thats great.
If the devs had infinite time and money to create content and fix all bugs, your idea would be great.
At the moment I would be happy if the devs can fix bugs in the current system so your choices result in a consistent story.
If you want 5 possible outcomes for each skill check, you can wait at least 3 more years for this game.
It's in no way my job to consider what they have the budget to accomplish; we're just here to make suggestions for what would make a good game. If we're looking for tradeoffs, I'd consider it very worthwhile to remove every cinematic from the game to do something like this.

I also didn't suggest that they do this for every skill check - I suggested doing it for a few of them. That said, I've come to expect so little from Larian, that I don't imagine they'll even consider it.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by grysqrl
The other reason not to show fail/succeed is that it allows for gradations of responses (mostly in conversation, but potentially applicable everywhere). Examples:

Trying to persuade someone to let you pass. Different responses depending on your result:
Below 8: They are so offended by something you say that they attack you.
8-12: They know you're not supposed to be here and say so.
13-16: They hint that they would be willing to accept a bribe in order to let you past.
17-20: They let you pass.
21+: They let you pass and do something else useful (e.g. give you a map, fill you in on some juicy gossip, or send someone along to show you the way and guide you through the traps).

Trying to pick a lock on a chest:
Below 5: You irreparably damage the lock, making it impossible to open the chest, even with the key.
5-7: You fail, break your pick, and make some noise, potentially drawing unwanted attention.
8-10: You fail and break your pick.
11-14: You fail.
15-18: You break your pick, but manage to open the lock.
19+: You open the lock.

You don't need to have this many levels of success on every single check, but it would be really cool to have these kinds of things come up from time to time. It would work best if there is no known DC for the check.
This sounds like source of multiple suicides and hospitalizations of developers for loosing their mind.
Aka development hell. laugh


If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5