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#764593 13/03/21 02:54 PM
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So, after browsing reddit and Larian's official forums, I stumbled upon a conversation that went kinda like this:

Guy 1: I feel like the ranger class a bit boring, given the lackluster of options in combat.

Guy 2: Well, that pretty much represents the TT D&D experience.

Since Ranger is one of my go to choices, I, as a non TT D&D connoisseur google searched some of the abillities ranger get at more levels, and in fact, I was really surprised of how little options of skills and abillities this class has in combat.

Being BG3 this potentially 100+ hour game, do you guys think that they should homebrew some skills to make combat more fun or they should stay true to 5e?

I am playing a Ranger right now, having fun in this EA, but if theres not much more in terms of options combat-wise I can see it being boring going throught the whole game when its finished.

SystemRPG #764594 13/03/21 03:02 PM
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They should move even closer to 5e.

Scribe #764596 13/03/21 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Scribe
They should move even closer to 5e.
+1

Scribe #764597 13/03/21 03:13 PM
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That would bums me out a little, ngl

Last edited by SystemRPG; 13/03/21 03:14 PM.
SystemRPG #764604 13/03/21 03:40 PM
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The Ranger used to be my favorite class and I hope to play it in BG3 at full release. However, that certainly won't happen with the current LARIAN HOMEBREW which INCREDIBLY POORLY CONCEPTUALIZED and CONCEIVED. Larian Ranger is essentially an overly complex and inferior PHB Ranger. Made even worse if you fall for the many trap powers Larian pretend to buff/compensate the class with. The skills are useless unless the Ranger happens to be the leader/face of the party (which is suboptimal at the best of times). The cantrips/spell largely conflict with Hunter's Mark (very important for the damage output of a pure DPS class), and are largely made redundant on top of this by easy advantage in combat, or are worse options than melee or ranged attacks.

Unless Larian begin to take their own homebrew more seriously, perhaps even go so far as to listen to feedback, the class' relative power will drop off even more sharply than in PHB where many consider it the worst class by pretty far. If I had any say, I would suggest an adaptation of the D&D variant Rangers as outlined in Unearthed Arcana and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything.

Last edited by Seraphael; 13/03/21 03:48 PM.
SystemRPG #764628 13/03/21 05:34 PM
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Closer to 5e would be best, and for Ranger, ADD TASHA'S as an option. As it helps people build a ranger for them.

SystemRPG #764633 13/03/21 06:04 PM
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The PHB? Are you joking? I actually played a ranger when 5e came out. I lasted 2 months and suicided my character in disgust.

Firstly the beastmaster class is atrocious, justly reviled. Hunter has a few useful things but they're not great and the later stuff really peters off. Favoured enemy and natural explorer were situational at best and basically relied on your dm throwing you a bone. At least here the animal companion acts on its own initiative, though they have nerfed most of them now. The dire raven is still very useful though. I think it got a buff.

Favoured enemy isn't great as said above - except if you play a strength based ranger. Getting heavy armour proficiency for free is pretty big, although you won't see the benefits of it in act 1. Otherwise the selection is pretty bad. Natural explorer, however, does have a few decent options. Proficiency in thieves tools lets you take on the rogue role if you want without wasting your background to get it. This leaves you with the option for picking persuasion for the times you can't rely on companions (or if you don't want to keep switching to them). Poison and fire resistance are both very useful both in this act and likely in the rest of the game. Fire probably more so.

They did muck up the spells a bit, definitely. But having played a ranger in TT and here I find you are usually casting hunter's mark then attacking. Rarely would you want to be casting anything else since they all cost an action, plus they waste a spell slot which might be needed for hunter's mark if you lose concentration. It would be nice to have them properly implemented though.

The stuff about advantage basically applies to every class so it has no real relevance to rangers per se.

Absolutely agree that the later variants are 100% better though. It's highly unlikely we'll get to see these. It's not great, but it will more or less keep up with the fighter excluding action surge till lvl 11 and as long as they buff the animal companion as you gain levels should be playable till the end of the game.

Like most of the things in the game, could have been done better, yes definitely, but absolutely not as bad as some people make it out to be. Until I played the druid it was the strongest class I tried.

crashdaddy #764653 13/03/21 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by crashdaddy
The PHB? Are you joking? I actually played a ranger when 5e came out. I lasted 2 months and suicided my character in disgust.
<snip>
Like most of the things in the game, could have been done better, yes definitely, but absolutely not as bad as some people make it out to be. Until I played the druid it was the strongest class I tried.

I have written a detailed breakdown on the Larian Ranger elsewhere where I mention the many weaknesses and few strengths of the class. Look it up if you truly are interested in a nuanced debate. Read again, I said PHB Ranger is bad, but BG3 Ranger is even worse *relative to the other classes*. That you found the Rangers strong in BG3 is due to easy advantage, that you correctly mentioned applies to everyone, but that Rangers and Warlocks are better at leveraging due to their damage increasing spells and reliance on attack rolls. This is more to do with subjective ease of play rather than objective strength though. When we talk about Rangers, we talk about the base class, not subclasses that aren't even implemented properly yet.

PHB Rangers always started out pretty decently, but quickly dropped off compared to other classes and this will be more true in BG3 for the reason mentioned (largely useless skills and cantrips and spells that are much worse than the basic alternatives) and by brokenly unbalanced rest mechanics. If you long-rest after each combat, a Fighter in effect has Action Surge every encounter, a Paladin will have smites for every round for the rest of the game, and full-casters have all their most potent spells besides potentially always being buffed to the gills. A Ranger will benefit preciously little relative to this from being able to cast Hunter's Mark more frequently!

How much use you get out of elemental resistances depends upon many factors, ie. ranged Rangers get much less targeted assuming the AC isn't low. The fewish occasions where it is undeniably useful, will it save the Ranger/party's life or help defeat the enemy faster? If not, it really is rather moot as healing is basically free in the game. Pointing at certain aspects and overrating the strength of said aspect, is ignoring that the choices are unbalanced causing many trap choices that casual players without metagaming knowledge is very likely to fall for.

Saying the implementation could have been done better, is a pretty gross understatement. I have given the rationale for all manners of flaws in the other thread. Besides, "not that bad" really isn't a bar I hope Larian sets for BG3, nor should we in EA when we provide feedback for the betterment of the game.

Last edited by Seraphael; 13/03/21 09:42 PM.
SystemRPG #764675 14/03/21 12:56 AM
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PHB Ranger not being for everyone is why I mentioned Tasha's, pretty much all 1-10 features of Ranger become optionally replaced, and Beastmaster gets a huge buff with their creature becoming elementally charged

Also later subclasses help the ranger a lot, being markedly stronger and giving better tools. I find ranger to be the most redundant class BUT I wouldn't cut it at all. And post Tasha's I think it's where it needs to be. Also swarm master ranger gets BEEEEEEEESSS which is fun.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 14/03/21 12:59 AM.
SystemRPG #765218 16/03/21 07:54 PM
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Just find it funny how they tried nerfing the spider companion by giving it less hp but you can still spam web and resummon forever. You can also explode surfaces a la Michael Bay with web if you cast it on fire and extend it forever.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 17/03/21 09:21 PM.
Seraphael #765289 17/03/21 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Originally Posted by crashdaddy
The PHB? Are you joking? I actually played a ranger when 5e came out. I lasted 2 months and suicided my character in disgust.
<snip>
Like most of the things in the game, could have been done better, yes definitely, but absolutely not as bad as some people make it out to be. Until I played the druid it was the strongest class I tried.

I have written a detailed breakdown on the Larian Ranger elsewhere where I mention the many weaknesses and few strengths of the class. Look it up if you truly are interested in a nuanced debate. Read again, I said PHB Ranger is bad, but BG3 Ranger is even worse *relative to the other classes*. That you found the Rangers strong in BG3 is due to easy advantage, that you correctly mentioned applies to everyone, but that Rangers and Warlocks are better at leveraging due to their damage increasing spells and reliance on attack rolls. This is more to do with subjective ease of play rather than objective strength though. When we talk about Rangers, we talk about the base class, not subclasses that aren't even implemented properly yet.

PHB Rangers always started out pretty decently, but quickly dropped off compared to other classes and this will be more true in BG3 for the reason mentioned (largely useless skills and cantrips and spells that are much worse than the basic alternatives) and by brokenly unbalanced rest mechanics. If you long-rest after each combat, a Fighter in effect has Action Surge every encounter, a Paladin will have smites for every round for the rest of the game, and full-casters have all their most potent spells besides potentially always being buffed to the gills. A Ranger will benefit preciously little relative to this from being able to cast Hunter's Mark more frequently!

How much use you get out of elemental resistances depends upon many factors, ie. ranged Rangers get much less targeted assuming the AC isn't low. The fewish occasions where it is undeniably useful, will it save the Ranger/party's life or help defeat the enemy faster? If not, it really is rather moot as healing is basically free in the game. Pointing at certain aspects and overrating the strength of said aspect, is ignoring that the choices are unbalanced causing many trap choices that casual players without metagaming knowledge is very likely to fall for.

Saying the implementation could have been done better, is a pretty gross understatement. I have given the rationale for all manners of flaws in the other thread. Besides, "not that bad" really isn't a bar I hope Larian sets for BG3, nor should we in EA when we provide feedback for the betterment of the game.

Do you watch Wolfheartfps on YouTube? He played a BG3 Ranger. He went Ranger Knight (heavy armor), took the Duel Wield feat (2 longswords), Colossus Slayer, used the Jump spell, and Hunter's Mark. He thought it was OP. I'm playing a similar build, but I don't use jump to backstab. Too much cheese.

Half High Elf (Booming Blade- mods). I took the Mercenary Veteran background (for Athletics and Persuasion- mods again), Keeper of the Vale (Protection From Good or Evil) and Urban Tracker (Sleight of Hand). Ability Scores STR 16 DEX 13 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA 14. I'm going to take Dual Wield and Elven Accuracy (Dex). I haven't decided which to take at 4th, which to take at 8th. I'm having a blast. But even without mods (tried one before I used mods), a Duel Wielding Ranger Hunter works well compared to most other classes, well except Wizard. I do agree that the bonus skills for Favored Foe are bad choices though. All are Intelligence based, and mostly useless for a Ranger. But UP? Nah.

Last edited by Merlex; 17/03/21 12:20 AM.
Scribe #765291 17/03/21 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Scribe
They should move even closer to 5e.


YES.


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