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#764977 15/03/21 03:56 PM
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GM4Him Offline OP
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Hi Larian and Fans,

Here is a list of ideas I have to improve the game. Let me know your thoughts.

1. 2 short for every long.

2. 2 long rests a day, not 1. Days are too short for people with tadpoles in their heads and long rests are like 8 hours in D&D, not a whole day.

3. Long rest changes day to night or night to day so we can move about by night, allowing us to sneak better into the gobbo camp for example.

4. Food is ONLY able to be used during resting to heal, either short or long. Every HP you heal requires a food or drink item. This makes food different from potions, making them both more important for different reasons. Either this, or make it so that food is required to stave off fatigue and just keep HP recovery to potions and rests.

5. Give us Hit Dice like 5e is supposed to have. I need to heal 10 HP, I roll d8, I get a 5, I eat 5 apples or maybe 1 cheese wheel, I decide to spend a second hit dice, I roll a 7, I'm fully healed and consume a pitcher of water, or something like that.

6. If you rest outside of camp, you risk a random encounter. The more dangerous the area, the greater the risk. Perception checks are rolled if encounter triggered to see if surprised.

7. Limit Fast Travel so that if you are unable to safely get to a Waypoint rune you can't fast travel. This way, I'm not short resting in a hostile gobbo lair or teleporting to camp and back right in the middle of the base somehow getting past tons of enemies. Thus, short resting in a dangerous place might actually be a necessity. Find a corner and hope they don't find you.

8. Stop using "I'm tired, let's call it a day" to let people know a dialogue can be triggered. Instead, just have the dialogues able to be triggered in some sort of order. Whenever you go to camp, if dialogues are available the exclamation appears. With 2 long rests a day and dangerous resting outside of camp, players will be forced to camp more often to trigger dialogue. Even short resting in camp would be safe so people might go to camp for short rests too. Either that, and more preferred, just uncouple key dialogue from having to go to camp at all. Just trigger the key dialogues on the road or whatever just like you do now with many of the convos.

9. Auto-Search Area feature. As you are moving about the map, your character(s) are auto-searching around you within a 30 foot radius, or something of that nature. The rolls are hidden, so players do not know if the characters succeed or fail. Every mundane item is still on the screen and is able to be picked up, but important items all have a difficulty number. This would include even common weapons, armor, lockpicks, etc. If the characters roll high enough to beat the difficulty of the item, those items are highlighted in the room so players can see them easier and know they are good items and worth something. This would negate players having to play a Hidden Objects game to find all the good stuff in a room. If they succeed in the roll, the items are highlighted and can be picked up. If the characters fail to meet the item's difficulty, the item is undiscovered and cannot be found even if you manually search for it. This would be very true to tabletop D&D. DM makes you roll a Perception check to search a room. If you fail, you don't find the hidden object. Period. If you succeed, you find it and can pick it up and take it if you want. I have read many posts, and there are many people who dislike this current treasure hunt method of opening every empty container and looting every body that has nothing but junk on it or nothing at all. This Auto-Search area feature would provide players with a much better and faster paced gameplay plus provide replayability because in different playthroughs your different characters might find different, special items. Items of great importance should have lower difficulties so that it is more likely to find them or impossible to not find them. If you can implement this feature for a room full of traps, like in the Dank Crypt, you can do this all throughout the game to make our lives easier.

10. Limited Inventory. It is ridiculous how much stuff you can carry, and it makes managing inventory a hassle. Instead, limit the inventory. I have recently been doing a playthrough where I am limiting myself on inventory space and I'm only picking up items that are actually worth something. What I am finding is that you only need roughly 30 inventory slots per character in total if you aren't picking up and carrying every little key, book, scrap of paper, fork, knife and spoon. So I say, give each character their equip slots and maybe 6 inventory slots to start. Then give each type of pouch, sack and backpack a certain number of inventory slots as well, so if you pick up a pouch or backpack you can carry more stuff, which makes more sense. Each character can only carry 1 backpack at a time and maybe 2 pouches. Provide players with the ability to find 1 or 2 pouches in the prologue. Thus, if each character gets 6 base inventory slots without any carrying items, and each pouch provides 2 slots, that's a total of 10 inventory slots per character and that's without a backpack. Now, if a backpack provides maybe 10-30 slots, depending on the size of the backpack, each character could easily carry 20-40 items at a time. That times 4 is still a sizeable amount of items. Add to this proper weights for items, like a suit of leather armor weighing 10 pounds and ringmail weighing 40, like they should, and proper D&D 5e weight limits (5x's Strength and once exceeded the character's move is reduced by 10 feet), and suddenly you won't be picking up and storing all sorts of useless items you can only sell for 1 GP anyway, and inventory management won't be so clunky and cluttered and full of junk, AND people won't be lugging around 10 suits of armor per character because they won't want their speed reduced. This also gives backpacks, pouches, etc. more meaning and purpose. In my playthrough where I'm limiting what I pick up, I'm finding inventory management so much easier simply because I'm not picking up all sorts of 1 GP item. Guess what, if I don't pick them up, I still wind up having enough GP to buy better gear at the shops. So picking up a bunch of stupid, useless junk is meaningless and just slows the game down and makes inventory management a pain.

11. Adding to Point 10, Take All should NOT include all useless junk items like skulls, spoons, bones, knives, etc. I say create a Take All button with a GP value indicator on it that the Player can set. So if I only want to Take All items of 5 GP value or higher, then I will pick up only those items that are 5 GP value or greater, leaving behind all items that are pretty much worthless. Thus, it will make my inventory management easier because I won't just Take All and grab all the dumb items I don't really need to pick up, lug around, and sell for practically nothing. It's just useless clutter. If you are going to keep these items in the game for immersion value, at least give me a way to easily NOT pick them all up. Right now, it's easier to just pick them all up by hitting Take All, but then I wind up cluttering up my inventory with useless junk I don't want and frankly isn't hardly worth the GP I get by selling them. Either get rid of all the useless junk entirely, or make it easier to NOT Take All of those items. Letting the player set the value allows players who are scavengers to pick up every little item and sell it. More power to ya!

12. Adding to Points 10 and 11, implementing limited inventory would also allow you, Larian, to combine several elements into 1. If each character only has maybe 5-40 inventory slots, you could easily fit all of the characters' inventories on the left side of the screen, stacking them one above the other with your main at the top. Start from left to right, equip slots for head, neck, torso, hands, cloak, rings, ranged, etc., just as on the Character Sheet screen except removing the character's full image from the display to allow more room. You don't need the full image for inventory management and equipping characters. Show stats for changes on the right, so if I equip a new set of armor it shows me my Defense total in a box to the right of that character. So similar functionality to what you have now on the Character Sheet screen. Same with weapons' To Hit and Damage Values, etc. Then, on the left, show each characters inventory slots. Only show slots available to them. So, if no packs or pouches, they only have 6 item slots available on the right to put items. If they have 2 pouches, they have 10 total item slots to use. If they have a really good backpack, they have 40 slots, etc. That's 4 rows of 10 slots, easily able to be fit onto a screen even if you have 4 characters with 4 sets of 40 slots plus equip slots and stats. This would make it so much easier to equip characters and pass items back and forth between them without too much hassle, and it would reduce the total inventory clutter that we have now. Weight limits and total weight would be below each inventory showing how much of a penalty you are getting to movement (-10, -20, -30, etc.). Finally, provide a View Character Button to allow players to pull up a window with their character's image so that if they want to see how their character looks with the equipment they are putting on them, they can do so. This would be as an option for cosmetic purposes only, and it would be in this window that you would select whether you want your helmet to be displayed, etc. In other words, I don't need to always see the full image of my character when I'm equipping them. Let me equip, then view one character at a time and close the preview window so I can manage items more easily without always looking at my character. The Inventory Screen pics you have now for inventory and equipping characters works just fine for most instances.

13. Multi-Select, Drag And Drop Items. We absolutely need the ability to hold Shift and select multiple items to move from one character to another and from our characters to the shopkeeper. Forget the Wares feature. Give me this functionality and we're good. Just let me hold Shift and select whatever I want to move, and then let me drag the items and drop them from one inventory to another. We don't need a Wares feature if you limit inventory and provide a Multi-Select function.

14. Reduce the repetitive conversations. I don't need to hear "I care about our lives; our FUTURES!" said a thousand times over and over as I'm moving around in the Druid's Grove. I actually just want to kill them all to shut them up because they just have the same convo over and over again. One time through the convo is enough. After that, just have there be some sort of ambient background conversations going or something to simulate that people are living and breathing and talking and going about their daily lives. Also, shopkeepers don't need to say the exact same thing over and over again every time I need to buy/sell something. The halfling in the grove doesn't need to tell me each time that there are others in need. Once is enough. After that, a simple, "How can I help you?" or something super simple is enough.

I'm sure I have more, but this is enough to chew on. I think these are the most important ones to implement. If you could put these into place, I think the game would be a 1,000 times more incredible than it already is, and it would probably make a lot of people happier. I could, of course, be wrong, but after reading a lot of the discussions out here, it seems like this could solve a lot of the present issues.

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1.) I'd prefer 3 short rests every long rest, possibly restricted such that you can't long rest unless you've already taken short rests. This would lessen the importance of eating food for HP.

2&3.) I'd be fine with 2 long rests a day, with each shifting it from day-night and night-day. Alternatively, the 2nd or 3rd short rest could change it to night, and then the long rest changes it from night to day.

4&5.) Eh this food suggestion sounds a bit convoluted tbh. If Larian wants to keep food in the game, I'd suggest just requiring a single ration/food item per character in order to gain HP/not gain fatigue during a Long Rest. Similar for Hit Dice, either it should require 1 ration/food item or not require food at all, and not X food for Y HP. Alternatively, get rid of food entirely in the game or make every food item heal 1hp max.

8.) Camping & Dialogue: I strongly agree that key dialogue should be uncoupled from going to camp and long resting. Companions should talk to you while exploring or during short rests.

9.) Auto-Search & Hidden Items: We've had this conversation. I agree with the idea, but with 3 categories of containers/items:
-Not all "important items" should be gated behind perception checks. Some items should automatically be found, possibly via all lockboxes/chests (you know, places where items of value are typically stored) being findable without a perception check and have better than average items.
-Other containers (e.g., barrels, sacks, etc., of which I hope there are less) generally contain worse items, but there's still a chance of them containing cool items and these could be highlighted by perception checks. However, you can still search them manually.
-Hidden items under rags, floorboards, piles of rocks, etc, are only findable via secret perception checks. If you don't pass the check, then they're unfindable.

11.) Eh not in favor of a GP criteria for Take All. I'd prefer if the Take All button never picked up useless junk items. If you want those items, you have to pick them up manually.
Actually, I think the goal should be for a "Take All" button to not be necessary, except in the cases of looting after battles. A given 30 foot radius area should not contain enough items to warrant a Take All button (excluding useless junk).

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I pretty much agree with everything you said. The only reason I gave a GP Take All suggestion is for those who really are scavengers who want to pick up everything. At least give me the option to NOT pick up every little thing quickly.

But, you are right. If everything that has something good is highlighted because you made a good Perception roll, every time you search that highlighted thing there is likely only going to he 1 or 2 good items anyway per container or dead body, so probably not necessary.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
1. 2 short for every long.
Allready there. smile

Originally Posted by GM4Him
2. 2 long rests a day, not 1. Days are too short for people with tadpoles in their heads and long rests are like 8 hours in D&D, not a whole day.
I dont like it to be honest ...
For one, it seem like a lot of work compared to benefit to have "slightly better idea of time". :-/
And for two, right now i kinda like as it is ... just end the day, and go to sleep. :-/

It just feels odd that our heroes would go from the camp, get somewhere ... then get back to camp to rest, then get back ... continue the journey, and then return again to sleep. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
3. Long rest changes day to night or night to day so we can move about by night, allowing us to sneak better into the gobbo camp for example.
I believe Larian allready told that they would kepp gameplay in day, since implement day/night routine for eveny NPC would be sure way to madness.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
4. Food is ONLY able to be used during resting to heal, either short or long. Every HP you heal requires a food or drink item. This makes food different from potions, making them both more important for different reasons. Either this, or make it so that food is required to stave off fatigue and just keep HP recovery to potions and rests.
Agreed. +1

Originally Posted by GM4Him
5. Give us Hit Dice like 5e is supposed to have. I need to heal 10 HP, I roll d8, I get a 5, I eat 5 apples or maybe 1 cheese wheel, I decide to spend a second hit dice, I roll a 7, I'm fully healed and consume a pitcher of water, or something like that.
I dont understand this. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
6. If you rest outside of camp, you risk a random encounter. The more dangerous the area, the greater the risk. Perception checks are rolled if encounter triggered to see if surprised.
I dont quite understand what people have with that random encounters. O_o
I mean, i would get it if there wasnt combat every few dozen minutes, but there is! O_o

So ... i dont quite see reason for this.
It would please some players, it would enrage some others ... i presume, this is material for moders. :-/

Originally Posted by GM4Him
7. Limit Fast Travel so that if you are unable to safely get to a Waypoint rune you can't fast travel. This way, I'm not short resting in a hostile gobbo lair or teleporting to camp and back right in the middle of the base somehow getting past tons of enemies. Thus, short resting in a dangerous place might actually be a necessity. Find a corner and hope they don't find you.
I like the idea of fast traveling between Waypoints exclusively ...
I dont quite understand the rest. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
8. Stop using "I'm tired, let's call it a day" to let people know a dialogue can be triggered. Instead, just have the dialogues able to be triggered in some sort of order. Whenever you go to camp, if dialogues are available the exclamation appears. With 2 long rests a day and dangerous resting outside of camp, players will be forced to camp more often to trigger dialogue. Even short resting in camp would be safe so people might go to camp for short rests too. Either that, and more preferred, just uncouple key dialogue from having to go to camp at all. Just trigger the key dialogues on the road or whatever just like you do now with many of the convos.
Same as abowe, it seem like lot of work with few benefits. :-/
Mostly irellevant.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
9. Auto-Search Area feature. As you are moving about the map, your character(s) are auto-searching around you within a 30 foot radius, or something of that nature. The rolls are hidden, so players do not know if the characters succeed or fail. Every mundane item is still on the screen and is able to be picked up, but important items all have a difficulty number. This would include even common weapons, armor, lockpicks, etc. If the characters roll high enough to beat the difficulty of the item, those items are highlighted in the room so players can see them easier and know they are good items and worth something. This would negate players having to play a Hidden Objects game to find all the good stuff in a room. If they succeed in the roll, the items are highlighted and can be picked up. If the characters fail to meet the item's difficulty, the item is undiscovered and cannot be found even if you manually search for it. This would be very true to tabletop D&D. DM makes you roll a Perception check to search a room. If you fail, you don't find the hidden object. Period. If you succeed, you find it and can pick it up and take it if you want. I have read many posts, and there are many people who dislike this current treasure hunt method of opening every empty container and looting every body that has nothing but junk on it or nothing at all. This Auto-Search area feature would provide players with a much better and faster paced gameplay plus provide replayability because in different playthroughs your different characters might find different, special items. Items of great importance should have lower difficulties so that it is more likely to find them or impossible to not find them. If you can implement this feature for a room full of traps, like in the Dank Crypt, you can do this all throughout the game to make our lives easier.
Nah ...
I dont see litteraly any benefit compared to curent perception system. :-/

Also, i frankly want to be lured to re-play by other dialogue options, potential outcomes, and stories ...
Certainly not like the idea to being forced to re-play or re-load simply bcs random number generator throwed lower number. -_-

Originally Posted by GM4Him
10. Limited Inventory. It is ridiculous how much stuff you can carry, and it makes managing inventory a hassle. Instead, limit the inventory. I have recently been doing a playthrough where I am limiting myself on inventory space and I'm only picking up items that are actually worth something. What I am finding is that you only need roughly 30 inventory slots per character in total if you aren't picking up and carrying every little key, book, scrap of paper, fork, knife and spoon. So I say, give each character their equip slots and maybe 6 inventory slots to start. Then give each type of pouch, sack and backpack a certain number of inventory slots as well, so if you pick up a pouch or backpack you can carry more stuff, which makes more sense. Each character can only carry 1 backpack at a time and maybe 2 pouches. Provide players with the ability to find 1 or 2 pouches in the prologue. Thus, if each character gets 6 base inventory slots without any carrying items, and each pouch provides 2 slots, that's a total of 10 inventory slots per character and that's without a backpack. Now, if a backpack provides maybe 10-30 slots, depending on the size of the backpack, each character could easily carry 20-40 items at a time. That times 4 is still a sizeable amount of items. Add to this proper weights for items, like a suit of leather armor weighing 10 pounds and ringmail weighing 40, like they should, and proper D&D 5e weight limits (5x's Strength and once exceeded the character's move is reduced by 10 feet), and suddenly you won't be picking up and storing all sorts of useless items you can only sell for 1 GP anyway, and inventory management won't be so clunky and cluttered and full of junk, AND people won't be lugging around 10 suits of armor per character because they won't want their speed reduced. This also gives backpacks, pouches, etc. more meaning and purpose. In my playthrough where I'm limiting what I pick up, I'm finding inventory management so much easier simply because I'm not picking up all sorts of 1 GP item. Guess what, if I don't pick them up, I still wind up having enough GP to buy better gear at the shops. So picking up a bunch of stupid, useless junk is meaningless and just slows the game down and makes inventory management a pain.
Good for you, you managed to loot only something ...
I presume there is nothing stoping you to play it that way, if you like it so much. :-/

I for the other hand like to loot litteraly EVERYTHING ... yes, im a hoarder and yes, i like to be able to do that ... the only thing you manage to change, with lowering carry weight, is incerasing number of my visits by vendor ... instead of once per hour, i would need to go there twice or thrice per hour ...
Not fun at all. :-/

So in short ... nope.

The only 2 things i would like in matter of inventory management, is:
1) Having options to set all items of certain type to single person while using "loot all" button ... aka: All scrolls to Gale > All arrows to Astarion > All food to Shadowheart ... etc.
2) Giving items to another person in like after your main character is full ... its anoying to have to move everything manualy, just bcs you want YOUR character to lead your party all the time.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
11. Adding to Point 10, Take All should NOT include all useless junk items like skulls, spoons, bones, knives, etc. I say create a Take All button with a GP value indicator on it that the Player can set. So if I only want to Take All items of 5 GP value or higher, then I will pick up only those items that are 5 GP value or greater, leaving behind all items that are pretty much worthless. Thus, it will make my inventory management easier because I won't just Take All and grab all the dumb items I don't really need to pick up, lug around, and sell for practically nothing. It's just useless clutter. If you are going to keep these items in the game for immersion value, at least give me a way to easily NOT pick them all up. Right now, it's easier to just pick them all up by hitting Take All, but then I wind up cluttering up my inventory with useless junk I don't want and frankly isn't hardly worth the GP I get by selling them. Either get rid of all the useless junk entirely, or make it easier to NOT Take All of those items. Letting the player set the value allows players who are scavengers to pick up every little item and sell it. More power to ya!
I like this idea. +1

Originally Posted by GM4Him
12. Adding to Points 10 and 11, implementing limited inventory would also allow you, Larian, to combine several elements into 1. If each character only has maybe 5-40 inventory slots, you could easily fit all of the characters' inventories on the left side of the screen, stacking them one above the other with your main at the top. Start from left to right, equip slots for head, neck, torso, hands, cloak, rings, ranged, etc., just as on the Character Sheet screen except removing the character's full image from the display to allow more room. You don't need the full image for inventory management and equipping characters. Show stats for changes on the right, so if I equip a new set of armor it shows me my Defense total in a box to the right of that character. So similar functionality to what you have now on the Character Sheet screen. Same with weapons' To Hit and Damage Values, etc. Then, on the left, show each characters inventory slots. Only show slots available to them. So, if no packs or pouches, they only have 6 item slots available on the right to put items. If they have 2 pouches, they have 10 total item slots to use. If they have a really good backpack, they have 40 slots, etc. That's 4 rows of 10 slots, easily able to be fit onto a screen even if you have 4 characters with 4 sets of 40 slots plus equip slots and stats. This would make it so much easier to equip characters and pass items back and forth between them without too much hassle, and it would reduce the total inventory clutter that we have now. Weight limits and total weight would be below each inventory showing how much of a penalty you are getting to movement (-10, -20, -30, etc.). Finally, provide a View Character Button to allow players to pull up a window with their character's image so that if they want to see how their character looks with the equipment they are putting on them, they can do so. This would be as an option for cosmetic purposes only, and it would be in this window that you would select whether you want your helmet to be displayed, etc. In other words, I don't need to always see the full image of my character when I'm equipping them. Let me equip, then view one character at a time and close the preview window so I can manage items more easily without always looking at my character. The Inventory Screen pics you have now for inventory and equipping characters works just fine for most instances.
What is wrong about curent inventory? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
13. Multi-Select, Drag And Drop Items. We absolutely need the ability to hold Shift and select multiple items to move from one character to another and from our characters to the shopkeeper. Forget the Wares feature. Give me this functionality and we're good. Just let me hold Shift and select whatever I want to move, and then let me drag the items and drop them from one inventory to another. We don't need a Wares feature if you limit inventory and provide a Multi-Select function.
I would not use Shift ...
Wares is fine feature, and i kinda like it ... it could be done better tho, if it would automaticly cocidering every "same" items to be also wares ... like: I looted LEATHER ARMOR ... and i marked it as Wares ... all Leather Armors in my inventory (logicaly meaning except that i have equipped) are therefore marked as Wares ... and every Leather Armor i loot from now on, will be too.

I would request simply mouse click, hold and drag to create bubble of marking multiple items ...
Just like it works in windows. :-/

Originally Posted by GM4Him
14. Reduce the repetitive conversations. I don't need to hear "I care about our lives; our FUTURES!" said a thousand times over and over as I'm moving around in the Druid's Grove. I actually just want to kill them all to shut them up because they just have the same convo over and over again. One time through the convo is enough. After that, just have there be some sort of ambient background conversations going or something to simulate that people are living and breathing and talking and going about their daily lives. Also, shopkeepers don't need to say the exact same thing over and over again every time I need to buy/sell something. The halfling in the grove doesn't need to tell me each time that there are others in need. Once is enough. After that, a simple, "How can I help you?" or something super simple is enough.
+1


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It just feels odd that our heroes would go from the camp, get somewhere ... then get back to camp to rest, then get back ... continue the journey, and then return again to sleep. O_o

You are right. I'd actually prefer they get rid of camp. Make it so if you long rest you do so wherever you are, so find a safe spot and rest.

The idea behind random encounters is that people can't just rest anywhere, like an a hostile goblin camp full of enemies wanting to cut you open. I shouldn't be able to even short rests in a hostile place because I am likely going to get eaten. A short rests is supposed to equal resting for 1-3 hours. How you gonna do that in a danger zone?

Similarly, people shouldn't be able to teleport out of the heart of a hostile goblin base. If I killed their leaders, I shouldn't be able to just Fast Travel to Camp of,the Druid's grove. I should probably have to either sneak out first or fight my way out.

I know they said they weren't going to do night gameplay, but if enough people want it maybe they'll change their minds. It really doesn't make sense to try to sneak onto a goblin base in broad daylight.

Hit dice whole resting is a D&D 5e rules. Each character gets a certain number of hit dice. When you short rests you roll the dice to see how much health you get back.

For point 8, I just want them to make it so major dialogue isn't only able to be done in camp. Like one of the others, I missed a lot of story because I was trying hard to not long rest.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
It just feels odd that our heroes would go from the camp, get somewhere ... then get back to camp to rest, then get back ... continue the journey, and then return again to sleep. O_o

You are right. I'd actually prefer they get rid of camp. Make it so if you long rest you do so wherever you are, so find a safe spot and rest.
Well, i dont presume that is going to happen, since Larian specificly told us that our camp WILL play important role in this story. smile

Originally Posted by GM4Him
The idea behind random encounters is that people can't just rest anywhere, like an a hostile goblin camp full of enemies wanting to cut you open. I shouldn't be able to even short rests in a hostile place because I am likely going to get eaten. A short rests is supposed to equal resting for 1-3 hours. How you gonna do that in a danger zone?
Dunno, switch people on guard? laugh

I understand the reason ...
I dont understand the benefits ... ok, it helps you simulate hostile enviroment, and except that? What good does it bring to the game that you rest before fighting boss, and then you must rest again, bcs random number generator just decided to roll low number and you were attacked? laugh

Also im not quite sure if engine of this game is even able to deal with fights "anywhere" ... If you know what i mean, the UI sometimes seem a little pre-scripted. :-/
It would be perfectly possible for moders to add chance to spawn some low creature when resting, fast traveling, etc ... but will that creature even do something? Or will it stand in place, looking around with no idea how to move? laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Similarly, people shouldn't be able to teleport out of the heart of a hostile goblin base. If I killed their leaders, I shouldn't be able to just Fast Travel to Camp of,the Druid's grove. I should probably have to either sneak out first or fight my way out.
That is why i agreed with alowing Fast Travel only from Waystone to Waystone ... personaly that is how i do it, and it feels fine, but some ppl are just lazy, and Larian need to concider them aswell.

BTW you would be perfectly able to travel from Goblin base, if you solved that puzzle, and get to Underdark, right there is Waystone. laugh
So all you loose is maybe 7-10 minutes of running. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I know they said they weren't going to do night gameplay, but if enough people want it maybe they'll change their minds. It really doesn't make sense to try to sneak onto a goblin base in broad daylight.
I dunno, i dont say i wont like it ... on the contrary.
But on the other hand, it seem like this game is kinda too big bite for Larian allready ... and adding day and night means almost double the effords. :-/ Unless every single NPC is acting just the same no matter the day/night time. And i cant quite imagine how people would like it. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Hit dice whole resting is a D&D 5e rules. Each character gets a certain number of hit dice. When you short rests you roll the dice to see how much health you get back.
Yeah, just another thing that should be done differently bcs in tabletop is done differently ...
I dont mind this change to be honest, rolling 1 is frustrating enough to keep it where it is right now, and not implement it to other parts of game. :-/

Once again, material for moders ...

Originally Posted by GM4Him
For point 8, I just want them to make it so major dialogue isn't only able to be done in camp. Like one of the others, I missed a lot of story because I was trying hard to not long rest.
Well, there is allready in game potion that removes "exhausted" status ...
So i dare to presume we will be forced a little more to long-rest regulary in final version.

Once again, im not quite sure if this request even does a chance to be granted ...
Since if you think about those dialogs, some (maybe even most) seem to be litteraly tied to camp in both logic, and story perspective. :-/
I kinda like it how it is to be honest, in field everyone is focused and comenting only curent matters ... in camp, they are relaxed and have enough time and space to talk about anything they want to. I would like to add some "i wish to talk with you, when you have time" sentence tho.


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I like the idea of a requirement to eat food/rations (would make finding a crate full of food more exciting and useful), but only for a Hard Mode setting. Same with triggering random encounters for resting in the wilderness.

Another note on those food consumables everywhere, it seems like they're worth way too much gold. You can sell a couple hundred apples in exchange for amazing magical gear? Seems like a whacked out exchange rate smile

I concur somewhat with the inventory issues, but I'd go in the direction of a "Take all and add to wares", reducing the value of junk items, and/or a more limited inventory. Right now I feel obligated to steal all the potatoes of Faerun to sell for all that sweet ass coin, even though I can literally just pickpocket all the items I want from the traders anyway... The item value thing would be less necessary if there were limited inventory space, therefore you wouldn't be picking up everything.

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OK. I've replayed now testing my suggestions. Here is the result (sorry for the length. Obviously I care too much about this game):

I didn't actually have to long rest until after the Dank Crypt. I didn't even need to short rest before then either. So, again, if we untied dialogue from long resting, I'd be able to trigger Gale's mirror image dialogue and Shadowheart's "I'm not sure this is such a good idea" dialogue after the first long rest which I could have done after the Dank Crypt. This would make more sense for a long rest but not necessarily the end of our first day. Again, we're fighting against time. Shadowheart even says there is a mind flayer tadpole in our heads that are going to turn us into a mind flayer, so we need to hurry and get a healer, and Gale urges us to do the same too. So it makes more sense to rest for about 8 hours and then it is evening. Then we move on during the evening, meet Lae'zel, fight the goblins at the gate to the Druid's Grove, talk to everyone in the grove, fight harpies, sing a song with the bard, etc. After all this, my characters have pretty much exhausted their spells and need another long rest. So I long rested. This would make sense to be the end of the first full day. At camp, trigger Gale's second dialogue about Go to Hell along with other dialogues triggered by this point. Good first day. Makes a lot more sense than saying this was 2 days instead.

I also tested item management. I only picked up valuable items that were either weapons, armor, food, potions, special items, etc. I dropped all keys after using them and didn't pick up books and tomes, spoons, bones, knives, etc. I didn't need more than 30 inventory slots for items in total between backpacks I picked up and so forth per character. I was also able to buy the Armor +1, not the Leather Armor but I think it's Scale Male +1 bought from the Tiefling Blacksmith. I also purchased metal boots and helmet for my druid. Didn't need all that useless junk to lug around, painstakingly manage and sell. Wasn't needed. I also didn't use food in combat. Actually, didn't use food at all. Used only a few potions too. Still had like 6 potions remaining. Didn't even short rest once. So, all the useless junk is truly not needed in the game at all.

So, after testing, I still think that the game would be so much better if Larian did the following (tweaking the list a bit):

1. 2 long rests a day, not 1, with 2 short rests between long rests. So 4 short rests a day. Again, long rest = 8 hours. Short rest = 1-3 hours. So between 2 short rests and 1 long, that's roughly 12 hours. If you actually play the game for about an hour and short rest once or twice and then long rest, it would make sense that it is about 12 hours. Thus, it makes sense to have 2 long rests and 4 short rests in a single 24 hour day.

2. Long rest changes day to night or night to day so we can move about by night. I know many think it isn't important or needed, and if push comes to shove it's not, but I will fight for it nonetheless. It is SO much better for immersion and for stealth missions against enemies and makes SO much more sense to me. Again, in real life, I would NOT be trying to sneak into a goblin camp to kill their leaders in broad daylight. That's just suicide. Night gaming would really make the game SO much more fun and realistic. I'd love to stalk about with Astarion during his prime hunting time; at night.

3. Either remove food altogether or give it more purpose. I honestly didn't need food at all even when I didn't pick up every little thing I could. So either give it a purpose, like you expend 1 food item per person per short rest and maybe 2 food items per person per long rest, or implement an exhaustion/fatigue system and food staves it off or helps you recover from it or something. Right now, food is just kinda pointless. If you want to make the game easier for new players, you have to create difficulty levels and the easier the difficulty level the more potions you give players, not food.

4. If people don't like random encounters, then maybe it should just be that resting is restricted when someone is in a hostile area. The point of random encounters is all about preventing players from basically killing a goblin leader and then resting for an hour or two in the heart of a hostile goblin base. That just makes no sense. "I killed 1 of the goblin leaders. Is that okay with you other goblin leaders? Is it okay if I just rest now for an hour or two in your lair? Thanks." No. I get why you want to let short rest be anywhere. It's easier for newer players and cuts down on the need to find a safe zone. Still, hostile areas should restrict this ability. It would mean that if my characters can't get back to a waypoint then they can't rest, either short or long. So if there are hostile goblins between me and a known waypoint, I can't just fast travel to camp and rest. Therefore, I can't just short rest either because enemies are lurking about. I need to try to sneak out or find a safer spot to rest. So, in my example of the goblin base, if I kill the gobbo leaders, and I know I can't just waltz out the front entrance or I'm going to get attacked by a thousand goblins, and I can't just short rest or teleport to camp, I might need to find my way into the Underdark until I come to the waypoint down there before I can finally short rest, OR I might have to try to find another way out, OR find a corner of the goblin base that is safe. What's the point of this? Makes more sense AND makes the game more exciting. If I know my characters are already really weak and can't do much, and I'm hunting for a resting spot, I am much more on edge than if I can just rest anywhere whenever I want or teleport anywhere whenever I want. I'm going to be SO much more careful wherever I go if I know that around any corner I could run into an enemy who might finish me off. If you want the game to be truly exciting, you have to restrict things like resting so that people are actually scared for their heroes that they might die at any point. Right now, I know I can teleport anywhere at any time and rest. I literally killed the gobbo leaders one time and teleported to the Druid's Grove and sold all my gear and went about my business. It was like I just strolled right in, wiped them out, and strolled right out as if it was no big deal. I actually found the evil path much more rewarding because at least that was more exciting when the gobbos attacked the Druid Grove and I chose to betray them and fight for the Tieflings instead. At least that was an epic fight where if I failed everyone would die. So I don't need potions or healing items much at all right now in BG3 because there's no restriction to resting endlessly. I only need a few emergency potions so that during combat I have the ability to heal faster. That's it. Restricting players provides greater danger which thus creates greater excitement. No restrictions makes the game too easy and items practically useless.

5. Untie dialogue from Long Rests/Camp. In other words, let me trigger dialogues as soon as they are available without ending the day. Regardless of what someone has to say, instead of saying "I'm tired, let's call it a day", maybe they could say, "Hey. Can we talk?" Even if important dialogue must be tied to camp, let me trigger the dialogue by fast traveling to camp without necessarily ending the day. The point is that I don't want to End Day every time someone has something important to say to me. That is SO contrary to what is happening to the characters. It just seems so stupid to me to End Day just because Gale wants to say "Go to Hell." Like other players, my first few playthroughs really skipped a lot of this because I was fearing that if I ended day too many times I'd turn into a Mind Flayer. Even when people said it was different, I didn't believe them. I was thinking, "You don't know. You haven't the foggiest idea what's happening to us. I'm not going to risk it. I'm going to end day as little as humanly possible so I don't move 1 step closer to whatever is happening to us." So I missed a ton of dialogue because I was playing it smart and doing well enough in the game that I didn't need to End Day frequently. Basically, I was punished for doing what I should be doing.

6. I would still love an Auto-Search Area feature. I'm not asking for much. Larian has already put this into place in many areas when it comes to finding traps or hidden objects. Dank Crypt lever to open the door being one such example and the traps in the Dank Crypt being another. Make it so that wherever I go my character is Auto-Searching for useful items so I'm not being forced to play Hidden Objects games in every inch of the world. Items Larian wants me to find should be lower difficulty, along with common weapons and equipment, so I'm sure to find them, and items that are more like bonuses should be higher difficulty. Useless junk like forks and knives should simply not be highlighted. If you want, keep it so people can still pick them up, but at least make it so that I can find the good stuff easier.

The Necromancer's Lair Key is, again, the perfect example. To find the key, I had to carefully hover my mouse just right over the key in order to highlight it and pick it up. Even when I did finally manage to spot it, I tried clicking on it and instead accidentally picked up an item near it. Highlight important items if I succeed in a Perception check and make it easier to pick up important/special/useful items.

So even if you don't get rid of all the useless junk, help me find good stuff easier so I'm not wasting so much time carefully searching every little corner of every little room in the game. Some might like this, but I've read many posts of people who do not. It slows the pace of the game down tremendously. Since I now know (well, not really) where all the items are that are good, I was able to speed run up through the Druid's Grove pretty quickly, since I was only picking up useful items and ignoring all the junk and since I knew where everything was. SO much more entertaining and less troublesome from an items management perspective and hunting/searching for useful items perspective. The game went along at a much faster pace because I wasn't stopping and searching through every empty container, etc.

I'm just saying, if you want to make the game more fun and exciting, especially for new players, you really should make it less cumbersome to find cool stuff. If you really value finding every cool item in the game, make sure you create a character who is proficient in Perception.

7. Inventory management efficiency. OK. So, I did discover some issues with my idea of limiting slots. It is pretty annoying having to have only 30 slots of inventory because you can't just have 1 character pick up everything and then redistribute it amongst the others as needed. Still, I think that Larian should at least give items their proper weights. Ring Mail should be 40 lbs, not 20. Leather Armor should be 10, not 5. It seems like weight is halved and characters' carrying capacities are doubled. I say that we should at least keep to the D&D 5e rules for this, if no other restrictions. Items should weigh what they're supposed to and characters should be limited by their Strength times 5. If you want to carry more than Strength times 5 in lbs then you get your movement reduced by 10 in combat and you move around the map slower out of combat. Hit the next Encumbrance level and get your speed reduced again, etc. By carrying only what I needed to, it made a lot more sense from a weight perspective. I distributed out the armor amongst different players and at most each character was carrying maybe 1 extra suit of armor and a few weapons each, and I still kept the weight under their Encumbrance thresholds even IF the weight was what it should be.

So it can be done and you can still manage the game just fine with these greater restrictions.

What is the purpose of restricting? Roleplaying games are supposed to be immersive. That is the whole point of the game. You are supposed to put yourself in your character's shoes. Having the ability to pick up endless items, carrying around six suits of ring mail because they only weigh 20 lbs, etc. is very unrealistic. Sure, it's a video game. Sure, it's all pretend. Whatever. That's not the point. The point is that the game is supposed to have some semblance of reality so that players can become their characters. It is supposed to have restrictions of some kind because the real world has restrictions. It is difficult to become your character when you have no restrictions at all. You can't get into a box if the box has no boundaries. Likewise, you can't get into a character if the character has no limits.

Besides this, again, it's all about human nature. I find it way too easy to just pick up everything because I can and it's easier to hit Take All then to select each item I want separately. So then I wind up finding myself naturally searching every inch of the room for every little item and picking up everything because I don't want to miss anything and I can pick up endless things without consequence. Then, before long, I naturally find myself with tons and tons of useless crap in my inventory that I have to waste time managing. Now I have to make sure that I carefully sell each thing I want to sell and carefully NOT sell things I don't want to sell. (I've made that mistake more than a few times, selling something I didn't want to because I thought it was useless junk because I simply had too many useless things in my cue that I was selling.)

In other words, I have to go against my grain to NOT pick up everything. If I don't, I have to manage every stupid little pointless thing and it wastes my time when it is truly unnecessary to do all this. If I can get through the game without having to manage all this stuff, why make me even have to deal with all this useless stuff? It's just pointless clutter that distracts from the story and overall excitement of the game.

That is the whole point I'm trying to make. Limiting items in the inventory forces players to not pick up so many things that they have to then sift through. Limited items means limited need to sort items and sift through them and so forth. If I can only have maybe 30 items, I don't have as many items that I need to then sort through, etc. Again, though, I'm fine with an unlimited number of items slots, but having the weight limits then at least restricts me a bit more from being able to carry around so much useless junk. If I have to drop 10 lbs of stupid stuff so I can pick up another suit of Leather Armor, bye bye 10 lbs of useless junk.

Still, I have to agree with many. Overall, getting rid of the junk would just negate any need for all of this. I used to think allowing players to actually interact with their environment, to pick up forks and knives and such, was such a cool idea. Having it in game, though, is only fun for about five minutes. After that, it becomes tiresome, and when it prevents me from finding cool items because they're hidden amongst the clutter and I have to carefully point my mouse on the cool stuff to find them and pick them up, now it is much more important to me to get rid of the junk.

But, I get it. For pack rats, fine. Leave all the junk in the game and make it so Take All still picks up everything. I get that Larian is trying the best they can to make everyone happy and ultimately if I don't want to pick up everything I don't need to. I'm fine with that PROVIDED Larian gives me something to easily dump the crap. In other words, you already have the Items tabs. Tweak the tabs and ensure that all items default to their proper categories. Categories could be: All, Weapons and Armor, Potions and Magic Items (such as magic necklaces, rings, etc.), Food and Drinks, Wares (like spoons, forks, plates), Key Items (such as story items that will be needed for the future), and Miscellaneous (for those things that really just don't go anywhere). Then give us a Drop All button and a Sell All button for each tab category (All and Key Items being exceptions so you don't accidentally drop or sell things you don't want to). So if I pick up a bunch of spoons, knives, forks, etc., let me Drop All Wares so I don't have to lug them around if I don't want to (when not at a merchant). Likewise, give me a Sell All button for each category. So if I want to Sell All Food and Drinks at a vendor because I need just a bit extra gold for that Great Axe +1, I can do so with the click of a button. Likewise, if I want to Sell All Weapons and Armor not equipped, I can do so with a quick button click. Add to this that anything put in Backpacks should be excluded from Drop All and Sell All so that backpacks are more valuable for storing and saving items. Put all the stuff you want to make sure you don't sell in packs. Then when you hit Drop All or Sell All in a category, you don't drop or sell the item because it's in a pack.

And again, Multi-Select, Drag And Drop Items feature is still a must have. Can't budge on this one. We need a way to just move a few items at a time rather than 1 item at a time or all items at a time. However Larian wants to do this, we need Multi-Select for items.

9. Reduce the repetitive conversations. This is also an annoyance in the game. We need to cut out all the "I care about our lives; our FUTURES!" type convos. Ambient noise instead, please. And shorter phrases when you reclick on people like merchants. A simple, "How can I help you?" is all I need, or just don't have the character say anything. Let me click on them and go right into the merchant screen. No convo after the first one. If I reclick on someone I've already spoken to, instead of repeating the last thing they said, a simple, "This person has nothing more to say" would do. That, at least, lets me know that I'm done with that person. I talked to them all I can. For important mission-quest characters, they could maybe repeat the quest for you; providing important details in case you forgot them. Otherwise, just silence the repetitiveness, please.

How is this? Does this make more sense? Is this a better set of tweaks? What do you all think?

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More organization for inventory and selling items is good. I don't want items in inventory to be limited because I want to be able to get my loot and not leave it there. I also like using waypoints whenever I want so that I don't have to waste time running back and forth.

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Im not saying get rid of waypoints. Just limit them when in dangerous places like the gobbo camp.

Think of it like you can't fast travel until you clear out all the bad guys. That's what Im now suggesting. If no random encounters, at least limit fast travel if the way to a Waypoint isn't clear.

As for gear limit, Im just talking real weight limits according to D&D 5e rules. At this point seems people in general don't want too many limits, but 5e rules are reasonable.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Im not saying get rid of waypoints. Just limit them when in dangerous places like the gobbo camp.

Think of it like you can't fast travel until you clear out all the bad guys. That's what Im now suggesting. If no random encounters, at least limit fast travel if the way to a Waypoint isn't clear.

Yup, have said it many times and will keep on saying it until it changes… you should only be able to rest when an area is ‘safe’. Some areas should be safe to short rest in, but not long rest until fully cleared, perhaps even big parts of the underdark. This would make short rests and consumables (incl. spell slots) much more valuable and ramp up the strategic element.

Dungeons are meant to be challenging and about resource management. Being able to teleport at any time just makes all of that trivial.



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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Thus, it makes sense to have 2 long rests and 4 short rests in a single 24 hour day.
It still sounds like a lot of work, with almost none benefit ...
I mean, yeah, it would look better ... but beside that?

Also:
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Again, long rest = 8 hours. Short rest = 1-3 hours. So between 2 short rests and 1 long, that's roughly 12 hours
Im not quite sure if i follow your math here...
If you are resting twice per day 8 hours each ... and 4 times per day by 1-3 hour ...

You spend 16+(4 to 12) hours resting ... that means you are resting 20 to 28 hours per day?! O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
2. Long rest changes day to night or night to day so we can move about by night.
So far Best idea about time passing i read around here was tie it to Short rests ...

With every short rest play few seconds long animation, move time a little ... morning > day > evening ...
Its not ideal, but one huge benefit here is that this system have litteraly zero kolision with curent state.

Yup, you woul still not be able to sneak in goblin camp "by night" technicaly ...
But its compromise.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
3. Either remove food altogether or give it more purpose. I honestly didn't need food at all even when I didn't pick up every little thing I could.
Then dont ... problem solved, move on.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
4. If people don't like random encounters, then maybe it should just be that resting is restricted when someone is in a hostile area.
Then dont ... another problem solved, move on.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
"I killed 1 of the goblin leaders. Is that okay with you other goblin leaders? Is it okay if I just rest now for an hour or two in your lair? Thanks."
Better question is how should other goblin leaders know?
I mean i see you set things so it suits your example ... i mean unless you cause alarm, there is no reason you should not rest here for hour or two ... since nobody else know. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I get why you want to let short rest be anywhere. It's easier for newer players and cuts down on the need to find a safe zone.
And i still cant see litteraly even single thing that is restricting you from running to Gut's lair, and to Underdark, to waypoint, where you can teleport to your camp ... and there rest, eat, heal, and to whatever you wish, after every single goblin leader killed. O_o

I mean, what would you get from this restriction ...
You kill goblin leader > you run to nearest waypoint to teleport to camp and rest > you run back to dead goblin leader ... perfectly possible with your restriction.
Benefit? 10 more minutes of useless runing through empty places from A to B and back. :-/
Is that your idea of fun? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Restricting players provides greater danger which thus creates greater excitement. No restrictions makes the game too easy and items practically useless.
This restrictio in particular provides litteraly no ganger, no exitement and no edge ...
It provides only more boring content. :-/

I mean it looked good in Lord of the Rings, when camera was flying around our heroes and showing us New Zeland landscape ... but there is reason, why this was not 8hour part of the movie. :-/

Originally Posted by GM4Him
instead of saying "I'm tired, let's call it a day", maybe they could say, "Hey. Can we talk?"
Add there "when you have time" and im all in to give you my +1.
But:

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even if important dialogue must be tied to camp, let me trigger the dialogue by fast traveling to camp without necessarily ending the day. The point is that I don't want to End Day every time someone has something important to say to me. That is SO contrary to what is happening to the characters. It just seems so stupid to me to End Day just because Gale wants to say "Go to Hell."
You are looking wrong at this, you dont "end the day just because Gale wants to say "Go to Hell"" ... the day just edned, from imersion point of wiev naturaly, and now, when there is no immediate danger, Gale is simply watching the fire, thinking ... and then he says "Go to Hell".

On the contrary, when if your demand will be fullfilled and we will be traveling to our camp at any point, just to talk with our character ... we would, as you say, ending or interrupting our adventure, just because Gale wants to say: "Go to Hell."
That would be pretty stupid.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Like other players, my first few playthroughs really skipped a lot of this because I was fearing that if I ended day too many times I'd turn into a Mind Flayer. Even when people said it was different, I didn't believe them. I was thinking, "You don't know. You haven't the foggiest idea what's happening to us. I'm not going to risk it. I'm going to end day as little as humanly possible so I don't move 1 step closer to whatever is happening to us." So I missed a ton of dialogue because I was playing it smart and doing well enough in the game that I didn't need to End Day frequently. Basically, I was punished for doing what I should be doing.
Just bcs Early Acess is limited ...
There isnt (as far as i can tell, its not official!) so far even whole Act 1 ...
We dont know how many Long rests would we need to explore whole story, nor even how many long rests we would get during whole Act 1 ... and even the most insomniac party, should be able to long rest enough times to get at least some basic idea about companions story ...
I mean except people who "managed to get through EA without even single resting" ... wich, sounds more like challenge, than actual "imersion-focused" smart playthrough. wink

Originally Posted by GM4Him
6. I would still love an Auto-Search Area feature. I'm not asking for much. Larian has already put this into place in many areas when it comes to finding traps or hidden objects. Dank Crypt lever to open the door being one such example and the traps in the Dank Crypt being another. Make it so that wherever I go my character is Auto-Searching for useful items so I'm not being forced to play Hidden Objects games in every inch of the world. Items Larian wants me to find should be lower difficulty, along with common weapons and equipment, so I'm sure to find them, and items that are more like bonuses should be higher difficulty. Useless junk like forks and knives should simply not be highlighted. If you want, keep it so people can still pick them up, but at least make it so that I can find the good stuff easier.
I dont understand this ...
Are you talking about pasive perception dicerolls? O_o I thought they are working like that.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
The Necromancer's Lair Key is, again, the perfect example. To find the key, I had to carefully hover my mouse just right over the key in order to highlight it and pick it up. Even when I did finally manage to spot it, I tried clicking on it and instead accidentally picked up an item near it. Highlight important items if I succeed in a Perception check and make it easier to pick up important/special/useful items.
Again i wonder what are you talking about ...
You mean that place where you find Necromancy of they book? Im not sure right now, but i would swear that key is high-lighted by holding Alt button ... and even if you miss it, its whole purpose is only shorten way out, that is hardly conciderable as "important" item. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
So even if you don't get rid of all the useless junk, help me find good stuff easier so I'm not wasting so much time carefully searching every little corner of every little room in the game.
I dont quite understand you ...
On one hand you demand full imersion, when you need to run forward and back to rest or find "safe spot" ... on the other one you demand geting rid of almost everything that is not explicitly conciderable as usefull so you "dont waste time" ... O_o
Can you choose please? laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
7. Inventory management efficiency.
I know im gonna repeat myself ...
But once i get autoasign specific type of items to certain party members, and automatic redirect of items to another party member, if my inventory is allready full ... im quite happy.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
So, I did discover some issues with my idea of limiting slots. It is pretty annoying having to have only 30 slots of inventory because you can't just have 1 character pick up everything and then redistribute it amongst the others as needed. Still, I think that Larian should at least give items their proper weights. Ring Mail should be 40 lbs, not 20. Leather Armor should be 10, not 5.
So you now understand that halving carry weight is bad, so instead of that you sugest doubling weight of items ... and have feeling there is some difference between those tho sugestions? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
It seems like weight is halved and characters' carrying capacities are doubled. I say that we should at least keep to the D&D 5e rules for this, if no other restrictions.
Same question as it was with resting ... and i feel like i was asking this allready. O_o
What benefit for game would this restriction bring? Except that, you would need to run back to vendor twice as often ... that dont sound much fun to me. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
What is the purpose of restricting? Roleplaying games are supposed to be immersive. That is the whole point of the game. You are supposed to put yourself in your character's shoes. Having the ability to pick up endless items, carrying around six suits of ring mail because they only weigh 20 lbs, etc. is very unrealistic.
I mean, what is wrong about Chain mail weight 20lbs on Faerun?
Its not Earth. Do you know how many G they have on Faerun? It seems like not 1, otherwise their dragons would not be able to fly. laugh wink

Also, im not quite sure about this ...
But i cant help the feeling that lockpick, or the potion, or apple, or wooden spoon, or w/e else ... usualy dont weight 1lb ... that isnt imersion breaking to you? laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Now I have to make sure that I carefully sell each thing I want to sell and carefully NOT sell things I don't want to sell. (I've made that mistake more than a few times, selling something I didn't want to because I thought it was useless junk because I simply had too many useless things in my cue that I was selling.)
OR! you can use Wares function ... i bet that is its purpose. wink

Originally Posted by GM4Him
If I can get through the game without having to manage all this stuff, why make me even have to deal with all this useless stuff? It's just pointless clutter that distracts from the story and overall excitement of the game.
I would expect you to know this answer, concidering how often you use that word ... its Imersion. laugh
Do you even know for how long people were making fun of Skyrim, just bcs there is no spoon on any table? laugh

Also ...
It seem to me right now like you being one of those people who wanted larian to completely change whole settings, jut bcs you dont have enough self-moderation to play the game the way you would like it. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Categories could be: All, Weapons and Armor, Potions and Magic Items (such as magic necklaces, rings, etc.), Food and Drinks, Wares (like spoons, forks, plates), Key Items (such as story items that will be needed for the future), and Miscellaneous (for those things that really just don't go anywhere).
There are categories in inventory. O_o
You just need to filter it yourself.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 17/03/21 03:23 PM.

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OK. Let me put it this way. I've been a DM for most of my life; like 30 years. When you play D&D, the idea is to put yourself into the world and be the character you have created.

So put yourself in your character's shoes. You wake up from a mind flayer pod after getting that thing put into your skull. Everything is on fire all around you. Are you going to:

a. Run around and explore the entire mind flayer ship, opening every container and searching every body
or
b. Run like crazy to get the heck off that ship and escape from those nasty tentacled freaks?

You might run around and search bodies in your path and maybe a few things you spot while moving around, but you aren't going to painstakingly spend 30 minutes searching every inch of the ship while you are blazing through the Hells. Right?

But you are not actually in the video game world. You can't spot things like a person might be able to spot things if you were really on that ship. This is why I was suggesting a Perception Roll while moving around the place. An Auto-Search feature means that your character is doing the searching for you. They can see things you, the player, can't necessarily spot as you are racing to escape a blazing airship full of demons, imps, mind flayers and devourers.

Imagine how much more fast paced the game would be if you didn't have to search all the boxes and bodies and containers. Instead, you run about playing the game, as you should, focusing on trying to escape a burning mind flayer vessel. Instead, as you are escaping, your character secretly rolls for Perception. All items that have a lower difficulty to your roll are highlighted, indicating that your character has spotted something, while running around, that they feel is important enough to warrant a pause and grab. That makes a whole lot more sense to me and is a lot more exciting than allowing players the ability to roam about the ship without any kind of consequence. It's like you don't have to care that you are in a burning ship in hell. You can leisurely walk around and pick up and search everything. Makes no sense and has no excitement value at all.

Think about games that create tension and excitement. Some monster is chasing you, and if you pause even for a bit, it gains on you. That's the kind of feeling you should have right at the beginning of this game. If you are sifting through boxes and bodies, something should spot you and attack you because you're wasting time. However, if there is no Auto-Search feature, then I am likely going to miss stuff simply because I didn't hover my mouse carefully over every pixel on my screen.

So that's Auto-Search. Now imagine this. You were captured by mind flayers. Did they leave you with standard weapons and equipment? Maybe, but you have no packs and no carrying items at all. How are you carrying around tons of gear when you have maybe two pockets, a belt and nothing else? Makes no sense. Totally destroys the realism of the situation and makes it less exciting.

Instead, I was suggesting that a person has less item-carrying slots so that you feel like you are limited. This creates, again, less of a desire to grab a bunch of stuff because you can't carry it anyway. So what am I going to do? I'm going to grab only that which I need because that's all the time I have and I can't carry much right away anyway.

So that was why I was suggesting limiting inventory. You have practically nothing at the start of the game. So how are you carrying around three crossbows, 3 speed potions, several hand axes and battle axes, a long sword, a shield, scrolls of revivify, etc.? I understand it's a video game, but there is absolutely no limits on it, which destroys immersion and makes the game way too easy.

If I'm running to escape from the mind flayer ship, and I have no bags or pouches, I shouldn't be able to carry around tons of gear. It's practically worthless anyway once you even get to your first merchant. So why allow players and encourage players to destroy the entire pace of the beginning of the game because you allow them to carry unlimited gear.

Instead, only allow a few item slots. This means they can't carry much but their starter gear and maybe a few extra items. This is smart because then players won't waste time searching for items they can't carry anyway. Then, maybe halfway through the prologue, you let them find a pouch or two, allowing them to carry a few more items you might find on the ship. You still leave all the junk and weapons lying around for immersion effect and in case players want to trade up their starter weapons, etc., but you prevent them from wasting their time on stupid gear they don't need and thus slowing down the excitement.

Finally, AFTER you escape from the Mind Flayer ship, then you have them end up on the beach in the morning of the first game day, and you have them find a backpack lying around on the shore which then allows them to carry even more gear. Now they can start playing pack rat if they want because they are now exploring the world map. Even still, if you limit inventory space, this still creates that element of realism, preventing characters from running around with loads that make no sense in an actual RPG. Only in video games do RPG's allow players to carry unlimited equipment without consequence, and even most of those do not allow this. There is usually some semblance of limiting players from senseless inventory management. BG1 and 2, for example, only allowed players 20 inventory slots per character, I believe. Then they had to either drop stuff or shift it around or sell it or whatever. So I'm not asking for something that wasn't already in previous BG games.

Again, it is all about realism and immersion and creating challenge and strategy and excitement. The pace of the game is ruined by senseless item management and playing Hidden Objects. So I'm mainly asking Larian to limit inventory and such so that it will create a better game in terms of really making people feel like they are the characters that they are creating.

And as far as resting is concerned, the D&D 5e rules state that a short rest is at least 1 hour. So it isn't specifically designated that it is exactly 1 hour. However, a short rest should not amount to changing day to night or night to day because it is only about 1 hour of your day. So, imagine you landed on the beach after the prologue and it is literally dawn of a new day. You run around and explore and meet Shadowheart and then fight some things and meet Astarion and Gale and arrive at the ruined crypt and meet the mercenaries and maybe even get all the way through the Dank Crypt. How long did that take you to do all that? Maybe an hour? So in real life, the character spent maybe an hour adventuring. That might be pretty traumatizing since you may have fought undead and met a powerful undead lich, so that might make sense to at that point say, "Hey. I'd like to take a long rest and rest for 8 hours."

Long rests are supposed to be a minimum of 8 hours. Again, it doesn't have to mean exactly 8 hours, so it could be that one long rest at one point is 9 hours while at another time you do exactly 8. Whatever, the point is that 1 or 2 hours of actual adventuring plus 2 short rests plus 1 long rest should be 12 hours, not 24 hours. I should adventure for 2 hours, do 2 short rests and then long rest for 20 hours. That, again, makes the game too easy and ruins immersion. There are no consequences to resting at all. There is no sense of urgency or time at all. You can just rest any time you want and the gobbos never attack the grove and the druids never complete there ritual and the mind flayer parasite never eats your brain. Thus, the entire game's excitement level drops dramatically because you have no sense of realism or urgency or time at all.

So imagine you go with what I'm suggesting. Imagine that you took some serious hits in that first battle with Shadowheart against the devourers. You do need to long rest to recover and replenish your spells. Then you have an issue with the mercenaries and fight them and nearly die. You have to long rest again to recover. Suddenly, you have a dream with your dream girl/guy. The tadpole's at work in your head because you have already wasted 2 days and you haven't even completed the Dank Crypt. Now, all of a sudden, the game is much more serious. You feel as though you really have to get your act together or you are going to turn into a mind flayer.

SO much more exciting. Wouldn't you agree?

Now add food to this. How is it even remotely realistic to eat food when something is trying to eat your face off? It isn't. So food should only replenish health during resting in between adventuring. Not while you're running around all over the place or fighting something.

Last edited by GM4Him; 17/03/21 10:18 PM.
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But it's a "Larian Videogame", 50% of it is about running around searching for empty containers and the other half is about:


Last edited by JDCrenton; 17/03/21 10:19 PM.
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
But it's a "Larian Videogame", 50% of it is about running around searching for empty containers and the other half is about:


lol thats pretty good

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Long rests are supposed to be a minimum of 8 hours. Again, it doesn't have to mean exactly 8 hours, so it could be that one long rest at one point is 9 hours while at another time you do exactly 8.
Not particularly arguing for or against a 2-long-rest-per-day system, but if Larian did change to this system then they could just as easily change the durations of short and long rests.
-short rest? 20 min
-daytime "long rest"? 2-3 hours (nap and/or lunch)
-nighttime "long rest"? 8 hours (7 hours sleep + 1 hour of camp-things)
2-3 short rests + midday nap + 2-3 short rests + long rest = 13 hours at most. Given that things like eating and peeing are included in resting, and adventuring is exhausting, an 11-hour adventuring day is already too long. Doing moderate to strenuous exercise, exploring or fighting, for >10 hours a day sounds brutal.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
OK. Let me put it this way. I've been a DM for most of my life; like 30 years.....
SO much more exciting. Wouldn't you agree?

Now add food to this. How is it even remotely realistic to eat food when something is trying to eat your face off? It isn't. So food should only replenish health during resting in between adventuring. Not while you're running around all over the place or fighting something.

No, I wouldn't agree, not with most of your points. I think you, like many people on here, mistake a dnd session with a game based on dnd aimed at a mass market. I simply don't think one translates to the other without compromises, that's coming from a fan of both mediums. Restricting inventory space sounds like a terrible idea.

It certainly is possible to rp wanting to get off the mindflayer ship without searching any bodies at the minute. I don't know why you think it isn't. You're basically trying to impose your own personal favourite playstyle on others. I simply can't see the final game being anything like what you would like it to be.

I agree with food though. I rarely pick it up, or if I do I basically send most of it back to camp as it's basically a weight burden.

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It's always going to be a one sided discussion for the people that want DOS3 or the ones that want a Carbon Copy of 5e ( Which is not even a great ruleset btw ). In the end Larian is going to do whatever they feel like it so it all points to DOS3. Of course our current Frankenstein EA doesn't feel that way but rest assured.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 17/03/21 11:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by JDCrenton
It's always going to be a one sided discussion for the people that want DOS3 or the ones that want a Carbon Copy of 5e ( Which is not even a great ruleset btw ). In the end Larian is going to do whatever they feel like it so it all points to DOS3. Of course our current Frankenstein EA doesn't feel that way but rest assured.

Why would you even post that? Did I mention DOS3? Did anyone else in this thread? Why are you bringing it up then?

I may have disagreed with a lot of the op's suggestions, but at least they were positive. And I put a counter argument to them that I think a lot of them go against the general concept in crpgs of giving the player choice - both in the story and importantly in the way they want to experience that story, ie their playstyle.

Even if I disagree with someone's take on the game, I do appreciate it if they've at least been constructive in how they express that take.

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Originally Posted by crashdaddy
No, I wouldn't agree, not with most of your points. I think you, like many people on here, mistake a dnd session with a game based on dnd aimed at a mass market. I simply don't think one translates to the other without compromises, that's coming from a fan of both mediums. Restricting inventory space sounds like a terrible idea.

It certainly is possible to rp wanting to get off the mindflayer ship without searching any bodies at the minute. I don't know why you think it isn't. You're basically trying to impose your own personal favourite playstyle on others. I simply can't see the final game being anything like what you would like it to be.
+1 (i will react on long post tomorow, its 2AM here. laugh )

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 18/03/21 12:28 AM.

Vive et vivant. wink
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