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OK. Now that I've posted a book's worth of suggestions about making some changes that I think would be awesome, I've decided to suggest something new.

Forget all these suggestions about improving the gameplay and just get to adding Acts 2 and 3, new races, new classes, crafting, etc. and fix some more of the bugs.

Honestly, the game is a blast. I've played 300+ hours of it now and plan on still playing more. Even if you don't fix anything else in the game as far as how the game is played, I'm still going to play the heck out of it. So let's get to the new stuff. Let's get to Act 2 already and more races like Half-Orc and Dragonborn and maybe Yuan-ti and such. Let's have a Sorcerer class and Paladin and Barbarian.

What's changed my mind? People. I get pushback on just about every suggestion. Can't make everyone happy. So I say play the game however you want to play it. You want to follow 5e rules more closely, then don't eat a cheese wheel as a Bonus Action to heal HP. Be your own DM and set your own rules for yourself that are more in line with how you play D&D 5e. Don't think throwing barrels around at enemies is unbelievable? Don't throw barrels around at enemies. You think it's wrong to allow Astarion to use Dash as a bonus action and then Dash again as an Action and then Dash again as a second Bonus Action, don't use that extra Dash.

Play with people who feel the same as you in these things.

The point: Let's get to the good stuff and stop spinning our wheels around with all this other stuff. Sure, I'd live to see Day/Night cycle implemented in some way. Sure, I'd love an Auto-Search feature or a Search Area Button so that I don't have to open every container and search every pixel of the screen. I'd love better inventory management. I'd like actual weights for items and more realistic weight limits like Strength times 5 = Carrying Capacity before you get a -10 to movement. But honestly, none of that is really important. I'm itching for more game.

MORE MORE MORE!!!!

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it will not be happened until full release i am afraid

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You really didn't understand the principle of Early Access...

It was clearly stated that it's ACT I period.

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Improvements before more game, we need a super strong foundation, and right now the foundation of this game has big big BIG cracks in it. Many mechanics are lacking or broken and need tweaking or fixing.
Just adding content may make it harder to fix those issues.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Improvements before more game, we need a super strong foundation, and right now the foundation of this game has big big BIG cracks in it. Many mechanics are lacking or broken and need tweaking or fixing.
Just adding content may make it harder to fix those issues.

This

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Well ...
I presume we will get some new classes, or races sooner or (more likely) later ...
Maybe we will be able to actualy finish Act 1, one day (much, much later ... i would expect those things beind added in the end, if ever) ... since Gith camp, Duegar stronghold, Moonrise towers, and Shadowcursed lands ... seem (at least to me) like they are suppose to be part of Act 1.
And finaly there is level cap ... i dare to presume that we WILL get level 5 at least, when its ready ... if not for any other reason, its bcs spells and abilities definietly needed a lot of tuning so far, and at level 5 there is some gamechanging stuff. :-/

Looking at it now, it took about half year to implement Druid ...
With this rate, EA will be with us quite some time (2 years at least, just to implement Bard, Monk, Paladin and Sorcerer ... not even mentioning rest of advanced classes, Wizard alone would take half year even if we get 1AC per month, wich will probably never happen) ...

Question is if Larian will even be able to add things simultaneously, or if we will wait for every race, class, advanced class, level, or other kind of content separately. O_o

Point is, dont be rush ...
This EA isnt sprint, its marathon ... fu**ing long marathon, several marathons in row to be acurate, and we just started. wink

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 17/03/21 09:53 AM.

Short coment on my English. smile

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I don't want to play through more content when rest of the game is unfinished.

Why would you want a half baked playthrough that would spoil the entire story?

I want to see a lot of gameplay improvements next.

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Ok ok. Lol. It was 2 in the morning and I wanted more content. Just itching for more game is all.

I get Early Access. I do. I just really like the game and want to finish it.

I've never played an Early Access before. Didn't know what I was getting myself into. Fun to play the game early, but man...

Truth be told, I want more true to D&D 5e gaming. Solasta does better at this with day/night, combat rules are more spot on, food is necessary at camps and has a specific purpose, weight limits and carrying capacity done right.

But all things considered, I love Baldurs more. I just wish they'd maybe take some of Solasta's elements and put them in BG3. Not all. Not saying I want them to mirror Solasta exactly. Just want a few more true to D&D rules.

This is supposed to be an authentic D&D game, but it's kinda loosely D&D.

But that's said, I don't care that much. The game is fun as is. In just anxious for more.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ...
I presume we will get some new classes, or races sooner or (more likely) later ...
Maybe we will be able to actualy finish Act 1, one day (much, much later ... i would expect those things beind added in the end, if ever) ... since Gith camp, Duegar stronghold, Moonrise towers, and Shadowcursed lands ... seem (at least to me) like they are suppose to be part of Act 1.
And finaly there is level cap ... i dare to presume that we WILL get level 5 at least, when its ready ... if not for any other reason, its bcs spells and abilities definietly needed a lot of tuning so far, and at level 5 there is some gamechanging stuff. :-/

Looking at it now, it took about half year to implement Druid ...
With this rate, EA will be with us quite some time (2 years at least, just to implement Bard, Monk, Paladin and Sorcerer ... not even mentioning rest of advanced classes, Wizard alone would take half year even if we get 1AC per month, wich will probably never happen) ...

Question is if Larian will even be able to add things simultaneously, or if we will wait for every race, class, advanced class, level, or other kind of content separately. O_o

Point is, dont be rush ...
This EA isnt sprint, its marathon ... fu**ing long marathon, several marathons in row to be acurate, and we just started. wink

Larian's problem is that from the beginning, instead of using 5th edition as a basis, and only making modifications that needed to be made, they started from the premise of "we're going to deviate from the rules as much as we like". All of the broken systems and the slow roll out of classes is a direct result of them not taking advantage of a play-tested system available for them to implement, and then modify.

They'll have no one to blame but themselves when EA takes too long, and they have to release before they've had a chance to try to fix all of the issues they've created with their homebrew rules. I figure they'll add another six months to their proposed EA of 1-year, and even then the game won't be "ready" for another 1-1.5 years after launch when they release a director's cut.

Last edited by Grudgebearer; 17/03/21 01:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
They'll have no one to blame but themselves when EA takes too long,...
I never said anything about long EA being bad thing. O_o


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ...
I presume we will get some new classes, or races sooner or (more likely) later ...
Maybe we will be able to actualy finish Act 1, one day (much, much later ... i would expect those things beind added in the end, if ever) ... since Gith camp, Duegar stronghold, Moonrise towers, and Shadowcursed lands ... seem (at least to me) like they are suppose to be part of Act 1.
And finaly there is level cap ... i dare to presume that we WILL get level 5 at least, when its ready ... if not for any other reason, its bcs spells and abilities definietly needed a lot of tuning so far, and at level 5 there is some gamechanging stuff. :-/

Looking at it now, it took about half year to implement Druid ...
With this rate, EA will be with us quite some time (2 years at least, just to implement Bard, Monk, Paladin and Sorcerer ... not even mentioning rest of advanced classes, Wizard alone would take half year even if we get 1AC per month, wich will probably never happen) ...

Question is if Larian will even be able to add things simultaneously, or if we will wait for every race, class, advanced class, level, or other kind of content separately. O_o

Point is, dont be rush ...
This EA isnt sprint, its marathon ... fu**ing long marathon, several marathons in row to be acurate, and we just started. wink

Larian's problem is that from the beginning, instead of using 5th edition as a basis, and only making modifications that needed to be made, they started from the premise of "we're going to deviate from the rules as much as we like". All of the broken systems and the slow roll out of classes is a direct result of them not taking advantage of a play-tested system available for them to implement, and then modify.

They'll have no one to blame but themselves when EA takes too long, and they have to release before they've had a chance to try to fix all of the issues they've created with their homebrew rules. I figure they'll add another six months to their proposed EA of 1-year, and even then the game won't be "ready" for another 1-1.5 years after launch when they release a director's cut.

I don't think that even if we gave them 6 years they would come up with something close to D&D. Like some other dude said "It's just a bunch of assets put together randomly" trying to be a game. How loose will this mess be in the end? Only time would tell.

Last edited by JDCrenton; 17/03/21 03:40 PM.
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I don't think its that bad. They have, admittedly, shot themselves in the foot with certain things by not being true to 5e, but I still enjoy the game a lot. I love the diversity of choices I can make. I have played over 300 hours now and still find new things because Im making new choices or dice rolls go differently for me. Some battles were initially hard but then in later playthroughs were easy, and vice versa. Overall, it is a good game if we could get the bugs exterminated.

That said, most of my suggestions I think would make the game better, and most of my suggestions could be summed up with, "Please stay more true to 5e rules. That would make the game better and more realistic and immersive."

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ...
I presume we will get some new classes, or races sooner or (more likely) later ...
Maybe we will be able to actualy finish Act 1, one day (much, much later ... i would expect those things beind added in the end, if ever) ... since Gith camp, Duegar stronghold, Moonrise towers, and Shadowcursed lands ... seem (at least to me) like they are suppose to be part of Act 1.
And finaly there is level cap ... i dare to presume that we WILL get level 5 at least, when its ready ... if not for any other reason, its bcs spells and abilities definietly needed a lot of tuning so far, and at level 5 there is some gamechanging stuff. :-/

Looking at it now, it took about half year to implement Druid ...
With this rate, EA will be with us quite some time (2 years at least, just to implement Bard, Monk, Paladin and Sorcerer ... not even mentioning rest of advanced classes, Wizard alone would take half year even if we get 1AC per month, wich will probably never happen) ...

Question is if Larian will even be able to add things simultaneously, or if we will wait for every race, class, advanced class, level, or other kind of content separately. O_o

Point is, dont be rush ...
This EA isnt sprint, its marathon ... fu**ing long marathon, several marathons in row to be acurate, and we just started. wink

I think it's fairly safe to say that whilst it seemingly took a while to get Druid into our hands, that does not mean that other classes aren't "by and large complete", or that nothing else was worked or is being worked on, such as areas in Acts 2 and beyond. We just won't see those until release (or sneak peeks as and when).

I definetley agree that I believe it will be a while before we see Release 1.0, but I don't equate lack of additional content in the EA as a sign of a lack of progress, it's just a sign of a lack of VISIBLE progress to the outside world.

I agree also that the foundations need to be tightened up. I read also in the difficulty thread ( I think it was), that the tutorial section was not polished/helpful enough, whilst it's possible that that might not change, tutorial tips etc... should always be the last thing added once you are comfortable that the area in questionand it's mechanics are not going to chage, or it's just a waste. Again, we are playing an Early Access build and not a Demo or even a Beta build.

It can be frustrating not being able to take a peek behind the curtain more regularly and see what is in the works, even if it's just conceptually, and I too was a little dissapointed with the last Video presentation, I think there was a lot of fixes etc... but there was perhaps too much fanfare made after such a gap in communication, with perhaps too little visible pay off for the players, but that's Larian and their enthusiasm for you. On the flip side, show too much and where are the surprises! Sometimes we are impatient folk us gamers.

As for the OP, it's a two edged sword for me... I have deliberately kept my play time down to 30 or so hours when it first released and have been waiting for a more major update, because i do not want ACT1 to become an absolute chore once the full game releases. Whilst some might not see how that can happen, I don't want to play the full game just the once either, so playing ACT1 now OVER AND OVER makes that a risk (for me personally).
So yes I too would like to see new content in Act 1, more side quests, more classes etc... (understanding that it will only be ACT1 in EA), so that I feel the need to go back in and replay prior to the full release, but I personally would have preferred a meatier chunk be added rather than a drip feed; but that's a personal preference. I.e. the Druid and cut scene improvements alone won't entice me back, but a patch or three further down the line likely will.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't think its that bad. They have, admittedly, shot themselves in the foot with certain things by not being true to 5e, but I still enjoy the game a lot. I love the diversity of choices I can make. I have played over 300 hours now and still find new things because Im making new choices or dice rolls go differently for me. Some battles were initially hard but then in later playthroughs were easy, and vice versa. Overall, it is a good game if we could get the bugs exterminated.

That said, most of my suggestions I think would make the game better, and most of my suggestions could be summed up with, "Please stay more true to 5e rules. That would make the game better and more realistic and immersive."

It's not just that it would make the game better, it's more like it would make it a lot easier to balance and they would waste a lot less time deciding how to make up each skill/spell/action/rule. At least that way the million barrels, healing sources and throwables would be optional for the players that want to play more like D&D. I don't have any complaints about the dialogue stuff and graphics, if anything they should branch dialogue or add unique dialogue for specific classes even more.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Improvements before more game, we need a super strong foundation, and right now the foundation of this game has big big BIG cracks in it. Many mechanics are lacking or broken and need tweaking or fixing.
Just adding content may make it harder to fix those issues.

Agreed.

Another complication: If Larian is still planning to lock our companion choices before moving to Act 2, and I haven't heard otherwise, then we haven't seen all the companions yet. Maybe 2-3 more coming? We need to stay in Act 1 for EA testing of the remaining companions.

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They will need to add new content to keep us playing to and get our feedback. Dataminers tell us that Act 1 is split into act 1a and act 1b and that content is added to 1b with each patch.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
You want to follow 5e rules more closely, then don't eat a cheese wheel as a Bonus Action to heal HP. Be your own DM and set your own rules for yourself that are more in line with how you play D&D 5e. Don't think throwing barrels around at enemies is unbelievable? Don't throw barrels around at enemies. You think it's wrong to allow Astarion to use Dash as a bonus action and then Dash again as an Action and then Dash again as a second Bonus Action, don't use that extra Dash.

That is how a play. But it leads to a diminished experience. No dipping (lol), no food, no jumping in combat etc. I do drink potions as a bonus action and I think pushing and dropping items is true to 5th ed.

But. Because disengage is 'jump' I can't really play a 5th ed rogue. A 5e rogue can enter combat, strike, disengage and hide behind the party tank. Rise and repeat. It's a really devastating strategy. Rogues can also do more in a round than any other class. To do the same with as Astarian isn't fun. You go in, strike, jump etc. But that's boring because a) it's something any class can do b) it's immersion breaking. Jumping over someone's head should be a class feature of a bard-acrobat or some school of monk. When everyone can do it just feels like cheating / cheese.

If you want to know how to use Astarian in BG3 don't play BG2 and don't read the 5th ed rulebooks -- buy DOS2 and learn how to optimize Sebille's build. Astarian is built the same way.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
They will need to add new content to keep us playing to and get our feedback. Dataminers tell us that Act 1 is split into act 1a and act 1b and that content is added to 1b with each patch.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
You want to follow 5e rules more closely, then don't eat a cheese wheel as a Bonus Action to heal HP. Be your own DM and set your own rules for yourself that are more in line with how you play D&D 5e. Don't think throwing barrels around at enemies is unbelievable? Don't throw barrels around at enemies. You think it's wrong to allow Astarion to use Dash as a bonus action and then Dash again as an Action and then Dash again as a second Bonus Action, don't use that extra Dash.

That is how a play. But it leads to a diminished experience. No dipping (lol), no food, no jumping in combat etc. I do drink potions as a bonus action and I think pushing and dropping items is true to 5th ed.

But. Because disengage is 'jump' I can't really play a 5th ed rogue. A 5e rogue can enter combat, strike, disengage and hide behind the party tank. Rise and repeat. It's a really devastating strategy. Rogues can also do more in a round than any other class. To do the same with as Astarian isn't fun. You go in, strike, jump etc. But that's boring because a) it's something any class can do b) it's immersion breaking. Jumping over someone's head should be a class feature of a bard-acrobat or some school of monk. When everyone can do it just feels like cheating / cheese.

If you want to know how to use Astarian in BG3 don't play BG2 and don't read the 5th ed rulebooks -- buy DOS2 and learn how to optimize Sebille's build. Astarian is built the same way.

Pushing is true to DnD, but it doesn't launch people 15-25 feet away. A push is an action not a bonus action, and either pushes the opponent 5 feet away, or prone. It's changes like this, that have completely broken the game, and make choosing to not use the built-in cheese, nearly impossible.

As it stands, combat is a race to highgrounds, followed by pushing people off and using surface spam.

When you really think about it, this game probably has the most un-DnD-like combat, of any of the games that have attempted to adapt a DnD ruleset.

Last edited by Grudgebearer; 17/03/21 05:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
They will need to add new content to keep us playing to and get our feedback. Dataminers tell us that Act 1 is split into act 1a and act 1b and that content is added to 1b with each patch.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
You want to follow 5e rules more closely, then don't eat a cheese wheel as a Bonus Action to heal HP. Be your own DM and set your own rules for yourself that are more in line with how you play D&D 5e. Don't think throwing barrels around at enemies is unbelievable? Don't throw barrels around at enemies. You think it's wrong to allow Astarion to use Dash as a bonus action and then Dash again as an Action and then Dash again as a second Bonus Action, don't use that extra Dash.

That is how a play. But it leads to a diminished experience. No dipping (lol), no food, no jumping in combat etc. I do drink potions as a bonus action and I think pushing and dropping items is true to 5th ed.

But. Because disengage is 'jump' I can't really play a 5th ed rogue. A 5e rogue can enter combat, strike, disengage and hide behind the party tank. Rise and repeat. It's a really devastating strategy. Rogues can also do more in a round than any other class. To do the same with as Astarian isn't fun. You go in, strike, jump etc. But that's boring because a) it's something any class can do b) it's immersion breaking. Jumping over someone's head should be a class feature of a bard-acrobat or some school of monk. When everyone can do it just feels like cheating / cheese.

If you want to know how to use Astarian in BG3 don't play BG2 and don't read the 5th ed rulebooks -- buy DOS2 and learn how to optimize Sebille's build. Astarian is built the same way.

Pushing is true to DnD, but it doesn't launch people 15-25 feet away. A push is an action not a bonus action, and either pushes the opponent 5 feet away, or prone. It's changes like this, that have completely broken the game, and make choosing to not use the built-in cheese, nearly impossible.

....

Really? How come I find it incredibly easy not to use this mechanism, then?

I'd find a lot of such arguments a lot more convincing if they avoided the hyperbole so much and focused on why what they are suggesting would make the game more appealing to a crpg mass market. "True to dnd" isn't really such an argument as the games that have been based on dnd that have been successful have tended to have significant alterations aimed at a videogame market.

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Originally Posted by crashdaddy
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
They will need to add new content to keep us playing to and get our feedback. Dataminers tell us that Act 1 is split into act 1a and act 1b and that content is added to 1b with each patch.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
You want to follow 5e rules more closely, then don't eat a cheese wheel as a Bonus Action to heal HP. Be your own DM and set your own rules for yourself that are more in line with how you play D&D 5e. Don't think throwing barrels around at enemies is unbelievable? Don't throw barrels around at enemies. You think it's wrong to allow Astarion to use Dash as a bonus action and then Dash again as an Action and then Dash again as a second Bonus Action, don't use that extra Dash.

That is how a play. But it leads to a diminished experience. No dipping (lol), no food, no jumping in combat etc. I do drink potions as a bonus action and I think pushing and dropping items is true to 5th ed.

But. Because disengage is 'jump' I can't really play a 5th ed rogue. A 5e rogue can enter combat, strike, disengage and hide behind the party tank. Rise and repeat. It's a really devastating strategy. Rogues can also do more in a round than any other class. To do the same with as Astarian isn't fun. You go in, strike, jump etc. But that's boring because a) it's something any class can do b) it's immersion breaking. Jumping over someone's head should be a class feature of a bard-acrobat or some school of monk. When everyone can do it just feels like cheating / cheese.

If you want to know how to use Astarian in BG3 don't play BG2 and don't read the 5th ed rulebooks -- buy DOS2 and learn how to optimize Sebille's build. Astarian is built the same way.

Pushing is true to DnD, but it doesn't launch people 15-25 feet away. A push is an action not a bonus action, and either pushes the opponent 5 feet away, or prone. It's changes like this, that have completely broken the game, and make choosing to not use the built-in cheese, nearly impossible.

....

Really? How come I find it incredibly easy not to use this mechanism, then?

I'd find a lot of such arguments a lot more convincing if they avoided the hyperbole so much and focused on why what they are suggesting would make the game more appealing to a crpg mass market. "True to dnd" isn't really such an argument as the games that have been based on dnd that have been successful have tended to have significant alterations aimed at a videogame market.

Why is it hard to not use? Because the AI will abuse push against you, if you don't use it against them first in a scenario where you are both on high ground, and there is the option to push a character for fall damage. Choosing not to take advantage of the broken system when it is available, ensures that the AI will take advantage of it when left to do so.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Pushing is true to DnD, but it doesn't launch people 15-25 feet away. . . .

As it stands, combat is a race to highgrounds, followed by pushing people off and using surface spam.

When you really think about it, this game probably has the most un-DnD-like combat, of any of the games that have attempted to adapt a DnD ruleset.

Good points. And yes the sentence does capture it.

Still holding out hope that will have a faithful adaptation of the rules but, again, that panel from hell took my optimism down about three notches.

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