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Originally Posted by crashdaddy
Look, I could make a long reply detailing the flaws in many of these arguments. I could point out that the issue boils down to the idea of a 'critical path' and optional sidequests which exist in most crpgs. Some games handle this better than others, but the tension is always there. Even the Witcher 3 had this dissonance. I could point out there is in fact a story reason to explore, which is Gale's quest for artefacts.

Of course you should be 'punished' for only following the critical path. If that were not the case the inverse would not be true, ie you would not be rewarded for dealing with the optional quests, which is utterly ridiculous.

Furthermore it is obvious, as many people have pointed out, that the game is laying clues for your motivations as a character to develop throughout the act. The why becomes as important as the how in other words.

This game is based on choices. You can choose to beeline to the githyanki (which will be mechanically hard I grant) or you can choose to listen to your gut if you pass the insight check which lets you know Laezal's holding something back from you. Hell, you can choose to kill her if you really want. I've seen the Ethel quest referred to a sidequest, but in fact you can learn a very crucial piece of information if you choose to let her help you. One that stands to the why AND the how. Shame it is gated behind certain choices and a literally crippling penalty.

If a dm had the nerve to tell me how I choose to make my character act according to his motivations is "bad roleplay", I'd walk out of the session never to return. Times a hundred for my character in a choice based crpg. Feel free to rp your own character the way you want and let me do likewise. I personally feel that treating a story as a desperate race against time without considering common issues like pacing, balancing quiet moments with tense ones, is a one trick pony, one that would become tiring very very quickly. But that is just my opinion.

I won't even ask people to stop suggesting that the game should be tailored to fit their narrow interpretation of the narrative and motivations. The reason being the game is highly unlikely to include any such suggestion and, after all, everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how badly thought out or applicable to only a few people.

But what is NOT an opinion is that there are other people who find a motivation to explore the story as presented without this suggested haste. They're not doing it "wrong", just differently.

You make a lot of valid points. Honestly I'm generally not *too* bothered about this sort of dissonance, it just feels like the with this game in particular the dissonance is especially egregious. The game gives you information up front that it almost immediately backs off from in a way that feels frustrating and unsatisfying. If you're going to spend the rest of the act giving players clues that the situation isn't urgent, don't tell them it's urgent in the first place, you've just primed them to be suspicious of information that contradicts the given sense of urgency (especially since most sources of information are unreliable and it's very easy to find reasons to thing they're specifically meant to misinform you) and to act in a way that's detrimental to their enjoyment of the game. And when they finally do relax and start taking their time, it's not some big reveal that comes with a release of tension, it ends up feeling more like "oh, so I was stupid to believe the thing you were telling me." There's a good story here, but the game is proving bad at presenting the information to you in various places. Like the Auntie Ethel point you made. It is insane to me that they gate such a major piece of information behind a side quest you can potentially miss, and then effectively punish you with such a major penalty. I can't imagine who suggested it and who thought it was a good idea to include it.

As I've said earlier in this thread, the first you should hear of the time limit (or at least the first in depth explanation of it you get) should come at the same time it's pointed out that "we should be changing by now but we're not." Then you've immediately framed the situation as an explicit mystery right off the bat, rather than giving the players what seems like a clear explanation that they then have to accept as being invalid for reasons. This is especially important given there doesn't seem to be a point where the story gives you a clearly defined eureaka moment where you figure out the tadpole isn't going to be a problem.

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Look the passage of time that occurs in games like Baldur's Gate 2 is considerably different from Baldur's Gate 3. In Baldur's Gate 2 you are forced to do side quests to earn money to pay the Thieves Guild in order that they might get you in to spell hold. That is considerably different from having a mind flayer tadpole in your head that is going to cause your flesh to tear off your body and your face to split open. It is also considerably different because you are told immediately upon entering The Druids Grove that the Goblins now could attack the Grove at any time. You are also told that The Druids are performing a ritual and will be completing it at any time now. So there is a much greater story element related to time in Baldur's Gate 3. You are literally told that you have a limited amount of time but then the game does not actually limit you on your time or provide any consequences for taking too long. So the Developers set the stage implying that this is a time-sensitive game but then they don't actually make it a time-sensitive game.

I don't mind games that allow me to explore the entire world map and searched all sorts of things and do all sorts of sidequest, but don't set the stage as a time-sensitive scenario only to make it the opposite and reward players for not caring about the passage of time. If you are going to set the stage as a time-sensitive game and story you need then make consequences for people who do not stay true to the time that they are allowed. You can't first tell someone that they only have a short amount of time before goblins attack only then allow the player to take as long as they want to complete their Quest. Basically when I first played this game I clearly got the point that things were going to happen in a timely way if I did not what I should be doing and I was punished for it. I don't understand why so many are saying that it is logical to punish a gamer for trying to push their characters to actually complete their quests in a timely way.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Sure, my character's responses will be all over the place. As a player, I feel let down by how hard they sell the danger and the urgency (most of the companions make a point about how important speed is) and then how quickly they back off of it.

There is no way to make it more of an urgency, unless you say make it like XCOM where there is an actual time limit and your days mattered. This is not that type of game, of course they are going to slow down the urgency and then project a new goal to "stop" the tadpole. Otherwise you would have a 2 hour game. You are trying to project real world logic onto game theory and there is only so much that will line up that way. I mean that is at least one thing that CP2077 did, is their progression of the invasive "virus".

Not to mention, we have no idea what it is going to happen after the first chapter. We haven't even been able to see the closing of that chapter.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by grysqrl
Sure, my character's responses will be all over the place. As a player, I feel let down by how hard they sell the danger and the urgency (most of the companions make a point about how important speed is) and then how quickly they back off of it.

There is no way to make it more of an urgency, unless you say make it like XCOM where there is an actual time limit and your days mattered. This is not that type of game, of course they are going to slow down the urgency and then project a new goal to "stop" the tadpole. Otherwise you would have a 2 hour game. You are trying to project real world logic onto game theory and there is only so much that will line up that way. I mean that is at least one thing that CP2077 did, is their progression of the invasive "virus".

Not to mention, we have no idea what it is going to happen after the first chapter. We haven't even been able to see the closing of that chapter.
The whiplash of going from "this is the only thing that matters" to "there is no urgency at all" is what I'm hoping they will tone down. Maybe they shouldn't sell the urgency so hard up front. Don't have Gale and Lae'zel know (or tell you) what ceremorphosis is. So you know there's a tadpole in your head and that you want to do something about it, but you don't know that you should only have a few days to live. That could change the tone from a desperate race against the clock into a mystery to be unraveled.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by grysqrl
Sure, my character's responses will be all over the place. As a player, I feel let down by how hard they sell the danger and the urgency (most of the companions make a point about how important speed is) and then how quickly they back off of it.

There is no way to make it more of an urgency, unless you say make it like XCOM where there is an actual time limit and your days mattered. This is not that type of game, of course they are going to slow down the urgency and then project a new goal to "stop" the tadpole. Otherwise you would have a 2 hour game. You are trying to project real world logic onto game theory and there is only so much that will line up that way. I mean that is at least one thing that CP2077 did, is their progression of the invasive "virus".

Not to mention, we have no idea what it is going to happen after the first chapter. We haven't even been able to see the closing of that chapter.
The whiplash of going from "this is the only thing that matters" to "there is no urgency at all" is what I'm hoping they will tone down. Maybe they shouldn't sell the urgency so hard up front. Don't have Gale and Lae'zel know (or tell you) what ceremorphosis is. So you know there's a tadpole in your head and that you want to do something about it, but you don't know that you should only have a few days to live. That could change the tone from a desperate race against the clock into a mystery to be unraveled.

The common understanding of being infected with a normal illithid tadpole, is ceremorphosis in 7 days. You start learning very quickly that the tadpole in your head is not normal. As you progress through the game, it becomes more apparent.

It's really pretty straightforward.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Look the passage of time that occurs in games like Baldur's Gate 2 is considerably different from Baldur's Gate 3. In Baldur's Gate 2 you are forced to do side quests to earn money to pay the Thieves Guild in order that they might get you in to spell hold. That is considerably different from having a mind flayer tadpole in your head that is going to cause your flesh to tear off your body and your face to split open. It is also considerably different because you are told immediately upon entering The Druids Grove that the Goblins now could attack the Grove at any time. You are also told that The Druids are performing a ritual and will be completing it at any time now. So there is a much greater story element related to time in Baldur's Gate 3. You are literally told that you have a limited amount of time but then the game does not actually limit you on your time or provide any consequences for taking too long. So the Developers set the stage implying that this is a time-sensitive game but then they don't actually make it a time-sensitive game.

I don't mind games that allow me to explore the entire world map and searched all sorts of things and do all sorts of sidequest, but don't set the stage as a time-sensitive scenario only to make it the opposite and reward players for not caring about the passage of time. If you are going to set the stage as a time-sensitive game and story you need then make consequences for people who do not stay true to the time that they are allowed. You can't first tell someone that they only have a short amount of time before goblins attack only then allow the player to take as long as they want to complete their Quest. Basically when I first played this game I clearly got the point that things were going to happen in a timely way if I did not what I should be doing and I was punished for it. I don't understand why so many are saying that it is logical to punish a gamer for trying to push their characters to actually complete their quests in a timely way.

It's been like that in games almost always.
No matter that the game tells you that if you don't hurry up, the evil dragon will burn the city, players know that the dragon will wait for them.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
There is no way to make it more of an urgency, unless you say make it like XCOM where there is an actual time limit and your days mattered. This is not that type of game, of course they are going to slow down the urgency and then project a new goal to "stop" the tadpole. Otherwise you would have a 2 hour game. You are trying to project real world logic onto game theory and there is only so much that will line up that way. I mean that is at least one thing that CP2077 did, is their progression of the invasive "virus".

Not to mention, we have no idea what it is going to happen after the first chapter. We haven't even been able to see the closing of that chapter.
Doesn't the game already do this with the burning inn? If you rest after going to that area, the inn burns down? A similar thing can be done with other areas & quests. And as someone said earlier in this thread, it doesn't need to turn into a "fail" state, just a different effect.
-Rest before saving Mayrina? She gets taken somewhere else and becomes part of an Act 2 quest.
-Rest too much before solving the Grove problems? The next time you enter, the ritual is in its final moments and you have to choose whether to let it happen or stop the druids through force or persuasion.
-Rest too much after informing the Goblins about the location of the Grove? Next time you arrive, the goblins are already there and have broken down the front gate, but not killed everyone inside yet. (Or have just killed everyone, honestly if you rest after literally watching the goblins marching out to raid the grove, it's perfectly reasonable for the grove to be raided when you arrive the next day)

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Look the passage of time that occurs in games like Baldur's Gate 2 is considerably different from Baldur's Gate 3. In Baldur's Gate 2 you are forced to do side quests to earn money to pay the Thieves Guild in order that they might get you in to spell hold. That is considerably different from having a mind flayer tadpole in your head that is going to cause your flesh to tear off your body and your face to split open. It is also considerably different because you are told immediately upon entering The Druids Grove that the Goblins now could attack the Grove at any time. You are also told that The Druids are performing a ritual and will be completing it at any time now. So there is a much greater story element related to time in Baldur's Gate 3. You are literally told that you have a limited amount of time but then the game does not actually limit you on your time or provide any consequences for taking too long. So the Developers set the stage implying that this is a time-sensitive game but then they don't actually make it a time-sensitive game.
That is the first part of BG2. Once Irenicus steals your soul, it's implied you will lose yourself to the Bhaalspawn essence / slayer (and the slayer transformation actually kills your character if sustained for too long, in BG3 you don't even get harmed for using the tadpole powers). But in practice you can explore the countryside after Spellhold, while Irenicus is chilling with your soul in the elven city, because -despite all the forces he brought there - he will never suceed at his plans. Your character always arrives on time to stop him, even if it takes them a year.

It's the same design in practice.

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To be honest, BG1+2 and many other games do not restrict resting at all or not very much.
Bg1+2 had a few timed quests, but most of the time time is not a problem.

I think Kingmaker was the only big RPG with hard timers, at least from the ones I played.
And even there the time limit is so large that you run only into trouble if you ignore quests for weeks or even month.

Since the game is timeless (no day/night cycle, no way to measure the time that has passed in game) real urgency is almost impossible to create.

Maybe resting should cost a resource, like every char needs a drink and a food to rest.
It does not really hinder you a lot since this stuff is cheap and can be found everywhere, but I think the question "Do you want to spend rations to rest for the night?" would have a psychologic effect.
It makes a difference if you can do something for free or if you have to pay a small prize every time.


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Okay. First let me say again that I love Baldur's Gate 3. This is not complaining about the current system. This is me offering a suggestion that I think would make the game so much more exciting and intense and more realistic and more rewarding 4 players who actually put themselves in the role of their which is the very essence of role-playing games. If they don't change anyting about Baldur's Gate 3 I'm good. That's fine. I'm still going to play it and still going to enjoy it. All I'm saying is that I think the game would be so much more exciting and fun if you reward good role playing and provide consequences for bad role playing. I'm not even suggesting that the creators do much to really change the game. All I'm suggesting is that they tweak the current time system so that 2 long rest equals one day instead of 1 long rest. I'm also suggesting that certain events will occur if you waste too much time doing side quest and that they add a few little cutscenes to warn you that if you don't get your butt moving there will be negative consequences. Lastly I'm suggesting that they untie dialogue to Camping so that I am not punished for not long resting after every 5 minutes of gameplay. The whole point is to enhance what is already there so that I am not being punished for playing the game according to what makes the most sense based on the scenarios I'm presented with. So this should not have any effect on anyone unless they are really dragging their feet in the game. What I'm suggesting is that the Developers set a time limit like maybe 4-6 days. Each day has two long rest. That's 8-12 Long rest. That's also 16-24 short rest. If you can't beat the entirety of act 1 using 8-12 Long rest and 16-24 short rest there is something wrong with your gameplay. You deserve at that point to have goblins Wipeout The Druids Grove.

So I don't understand why everyone is so resistant to this. I am not suggesting that they make it so that players can't do side quests or even all the side quests in the First Act. I'm just saying that I want the creators to make it so that they keep up the urgency of the main quest by providing reasonable consequences 2 inaction.

And yeah. The pace of the game is drags down by item management and searching for items. So I would like something to make searching easier.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
To be honest, BG1+2 and many other games do not restrict resting at all or not very much.
Bg1+2 had a few timed quests, but most of the time time is not a problem.

I think Kingmaker was the only big RPG with hard timers, at least from the ones I played.
And even there the time limit is so large that you run only into trouble if you ignore quests for weeks or even month.

Since the game is timeless (no day/night cycle, no way to measure the time that has passed in game) real urgency is almost impossible to create.

Maybe resting should cost a resource, like every char needs a drink and a food to rest.
It does not really hinder you a lot since this stuff is cheap and can be found everywhere, but I think the question "Do you want to spend rations to rest for the night?" would have a psychologic effect.
It makes a difference if you can do something for free or if you have to pay a small prize every time.


Well, it matters for first two hours of the game (or less) until the player realizes that the game is throwing food at him everywhere.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by grysqrl
Sure, my character's responses will be all over the place. As a player, I feel let down by how hard they sell the danger and the urgency (most of the companions make a point about how important speed is) and then how quickly they back off of it.

There is no way to make it more of an urgency, unless you say make it like XCOM where there is an actual time limit and your days mattered. This is not that type of game, of course they are going to slow down the urgency and then project a new goal to "stop" the tadpole. Otherwise you would have a 2 hour game. You are trying to project real world logic onto game theory and there is only so much that will line up that way. I mean that is at least one thing that CP2077 did, is their progression of the invasive "virus".

Not to mention, we have no idea what it is going to happen after the first chapter. We haven't even been able to see the closing of that chapter.
The whiplash of going from "this is the only thing that matters" to "there is no urgency at all" is what I'm hoping they will tone down. Maybe they shouldn't sell the urgency so hard up front. Don't have Gale and Lae'zel know (or tell you) what ceremorphosis is. So you know there's a tadpole in your head and that you want to do something about it, but you don't know that you should only have a few days to live. That could change the tone from a desperate race against the clock into a mystery to be unraveled.

I personally think this is a valid opinion. After all it isn't till Omeleum that you get concrete fact that something is inhibiting the tadpole's growth. If some people think that not enough has been made to reduce the haste, that's fair enough, because it's their particular experience of the storyline which is subjective.

I can see quite an easy out for this if the developers took notice. You know the drow was infected, but the tadpole was seemingly altered according to Halsim's notes. You meet a true soul who thinks you are one as well. You can speak to both of these after death. Surely one of the most important questions you could ask is HOW LONG AGO WERE YOU INFECTED/INIATIATED/MADE A TRUE SOUL? Then you have at least an idea of your timeframe, plus really big motivation to explore the mystery. To hammer this point home one of your companions could surmise that you too have this amount of time left too. A really easy fix to an issue that some players seem to have with the game's narrative.

As Gray Ghost said it is insane that they have gated the Ethel information behind those choices and the willingness to accept a really crippling penalty. The information adds so much to the game, pushes you as a player AND character to dig deeper. I would really change that scene and reduce the penalty.

I'm also not arguing that you shouldn't be able to ignore this and play the game as if you still have that sense of urgency. I think a good crpg gives you choice and it does seem to penalise those who don't want to rest as much as the game is currently prompting them.

I just think it should be playable at whatever pace you the player choose and you should be given a decent story reason to do so.

ps the point about BG2 is true, there really is no good rp reason to experience a large portion of the game

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Once you go to the grove...

You encounter Nettie who tells you about the Drow, who also didn't change, and had a tadpole exit his body after death. Then you come across the dying dwarf, whose tadpole didn't change him even in lieu of him being wounded to the point of death. If those aren't the first clues that ceremorphosis is not so imminent of a threat as you suspected, then I don't know what is.

Of course you want it out of your head, but the necessity to do it as quickly as possible, starts to be removed from that point forward.

Those are only clues to suggest the process is slowed, and that that's weird. Which is irrelevant. As I already said, only the conclusive statement that the process is *STOPPED*, not slowed, stopped, matters at all.
The process having been slowed only serves to say "you're lucky to have not turned yet, but you still need to devote 999% of yourself to being cured this hour so you don't turn next hour."
You should have turned earlier, but since it was slowed, you're about to turn right now instead. There is still no basis for toning down the rush until you know for certain there's no deadline at all.
Getting it out as quickly as possible is fully a necessity until you know about the Stasis.

Except right from the beginning, you start getting clues that the dire "OMFG IMMA TURN INTO A MINDFLAYER BY TOMORROW" scenario, isn't as pressing as you and your companions thought, and that sentiment only gets stronger, the longer you play. If you want to roleplay ignorance, that's fine, but the game is giving you clue after clue about the fact that your situation is not nearly as dire, from a time perspective, as it seemed on the nautiloid.

Jesus Christ it's like you don't speak English.

What happens throughought is NOT "Oh, huh, there's not really an urgent issue here."
It's "Ok, wow, you haven't turned yet? Normally people would have turned by now. But *YOU ARE GOING TO TURN TONIGHT INSTEAD OF LAST NIGHT LIKE MOST PEOPLE*.

Acknowledging that the process of you turning is going slower than usual means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING untill the deadline can be REMOVED, not just delayed.
Because the thing about the deadline, is that it was never delayed, you were just past it. The deadling was two days ago, and you need to be frantically trying to fix the problem because there is no telling how quickly you'll turn now that you are past the deadline. Nothing Nettie says changes this. Nothing Halsin says changes this. Seeing that dwarf die doesn't change this. Astarion acting like Mass Effect's Illusive Man isn't even relevant to this. The people you see with their own tadpoles can only verifiably be knows to have had them for a matter of days, while players are out here spending 3 months in camp because they long rest every 2 minutes or after getting a single papercut. Only Omeluum does anything to change this.

You accuse me of "Feigning ignorance" by still considering the situation an emergency. The truth is that your PC is just being a straight and plain moron by not treating the still urgent issue as such.
And if you want to roleplay as such that's cool, but it should be the person roleplaying a fool that gets the negative effects, that the one roleplaying someone taking the serious matter seriously.

It's really quite simple.
You could have one character, who continutes to take it seriously, because it's serious, recognizing how insignificant "it's going slower" is. The proceed to find a cure in time because they rushed like they should.
Then you have another character, who took all these suggestion that it was slower to heart, then died halfway through the process of finding a cure because they were going slow af and did not have an infinite amount of time, just an arbitrarily longer than normal amount of time.

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Sigh. The point.

1. Days are too short. Dialogue is tied to days ending, so I HAVE to end day too much to get dialogue. Therefore, I am forced to play the way that makes me rest too much or I don't get dialogue.

2. Good items can only be found by painstakingly searching everything as if I have all the time in the world. This slows down the games pace. Therefore, I can't play the game at a faster pace so I am penalized.

3. I am never rewarded more for playing well, so what's the point of playing well? Everybody is a winner and gets a trophy. Yay.

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Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Once you go to the grove...

You encounter Nettie who tells you about the Drow, who also didn't change, and had a tadpole exit his body after death. Then you come across the dying dwarf, whose tadpole didn't change him even in lieu of him being wounded to the point of death. If those aren't the first clues that ceremorphosis is not so imminent of a threat as you suspected, then I don't know what is.

Of course you want it out of your head, but the necessity to do it as quickly as possible, starts to be removed from that point forward.

Those are only clues to suggest the process is slowed, and that that's weird. Which is irrelevant. As I already said, only the conclusive statement that the process is *STOPPED*, not slowed, stopped, matters at all.
The process having been slowed only serves to say "you're lucky to have not turned yet, but you still need to devote 999% of yourself to being cured this hour so you don't turn next hour."
You should have turned earlier, but since it was slowed, you're about to turn right now instead. There is still no basis for toning down the rush until you know for certain there's no deadline at all.
Getting it out as quickly as possible is fully a necessity until you know about the Stasis.

Except right from the beginning, you start getting clues that the dire "OMFG IMMA TURN INTO A MINDFLAYER BY TOMORROW" scenario, isn't as pressing as you and your companions thought, and that sentiment only gets stronger, the longer you play. If you want to roleplay ignorance, that's fine, but the game is giving you clue after clue about the fact that your situation is not nearly as dire, from a time perspective, as it seemed on the nautiloid.

Jesus Christ it's like you don't speak English.

What happens throughought is NOT "Oh, huh, there's not really an urgent issue here."
It's "Ok, wow, you haven't turned yet? Normally people would have turned by now. But *YOU ARE GOING TO TURN TONIGHT INSTEAD OF LAST NIGHT LIKE MOST PEOPLE*.

Acknowledging that the process of you turning is going slower than usual means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING untill the deadline can be REMOVED, not just delayed.
Because the thing about the deadline, is that it was never delayed, you were just past it. The deadling was two days ago, and you need to be frantically trying to fix the problem because there is no telling how quickly you'll turn now that you are past the deadline. Nothing Nettie says changes this. Nothing Halsin says changes this. Seeing that dwarf die doesn't change this. Astarion acting like Mass Effect's Illusive Man isn't even relevant to this. The people you see with their own tadpoles can only verifiably be knows to have had them for a matter of days, while players are out here spending 3 months in camp because they long rest every 2 minutes or after getting a single papercut. Only Omeluum does anything to change this.

You accuse me of "Feigning ignorance" by still considering the situation an emergency. The truth is that your PC is just being a straight and plain moron by not treating the still urgent issue as such.
And if you want to roleplay as such that's cool, but it should be the person roleplaying a fool that gets the negative effects, that the one roleplaying someone taking the serious matter seriously.

It's really quite simple.
You could have one character, who continutes to take it seriously, because it's serious, recognizing how insignificant "it's going slower" is. The proceed to find a cure in time because they rushed like they should.
Then you have another character, who took all these suggestion that it was slower to heart, then died halfway through the process of finding a cure because they were going slow af and did not have an infinite amount of time, just an arbitrarily longer than normal amount of time.


You come across multiple instances of "true souls" not have turned into mindflayers before you ever even get to Halsin. The game has already given you multiple clue that the tad pole in your head, is not "normal" as to what Lae'zael and the others know to be true of illithid tadpoles, that fact is what relieves the pressure that is conveyed in the very beginning. It's further corroborated and reinforced if you do Omeluum's quest.
You seem to be playing the game without paying any attention to the contextual clues that the narrator and the NPC's are giving you from the moment you meet Astarion going forward. I don't think I can help you with that. Maybe that's a failure on Larian's part that they didn't envision a portion of players wouldn't pick up on what they were trying to convey.

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OMG Grudge. I am fully paying attention to the story and all the elements. I know the clues you refer to. You are totally missing the point.

It makes NO SENSE for me to long rest for 20 hours, wake up, run through the village,not even fight and have a character tell me they are tired. Then I have to rest for 24 hours or I miss dialogue. There is too much resting and ending days just so I get dialogue. I am punished unless I do something completely unreasonable. This scenario happens in the game A LOT.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
You come across multiple instances of "true souls" not have turned into mindflayers before you ever even get to Halsin. The game has already given you multiple clue that the tad pole in your head, is not "normal" as to what Lae'zael and the others know to be true of illithid tadpoles, that fact is what relieves the pressure that is conveyed in the very beginning. It's further corroborated and reinforced if you do Omeluum's quest.
You seem to be playing the game without paying any attention to the contextual clues that the narrator and the NPC's are giving you from the moment you meet Astarion going forward. I don't think I can help you with that. Maybe that's a failure on Larian's part that they didn't envision a portion of players wouldn't pick up on what they were trying to convey.

I picked up exactly on the contextual clues, which stated the process has been merely *SLOWED*, not *SOLVED* and that you can still turn *ANY MOMENT NOW*, because you are already past the standard deadline.
Saying that your situation is weird because you should have turned already in no way implies you aren't about to turn now. It just implies it took longer than usual, not that it isn't happening, and not that it isn't about to happen.

If you could find a true soul that's verifiably been infected for months on end already, that would be one thing. But you don't. Every true soul, be they companion, dead when you found them, or killed by you, can only be verifiably infected for the same length of time you were. Even with Gut, you know she was already there before you, and not on the mindflayer ship, but you have no way of knowing if she was infected the day before you, the week, or what, so you can only treat it as her having been infected the same instant as you. So they are all just as liable to turn overnight as you are.

The first, and only, contextual clue that you don't need to be worried is Omeluum.
And you don't even need to do his quest by the way, in the very first conversation he tells you about the stasis. If you let him brain scan you at least.
You, Grudgebearer, have been picking up on something they DIDN'T convey. Omeluum presents the first and only reasoning for thinking the way you are.
Again, saying the process is slowed means absolutely nothing. It has no significance. Only saying it has been stopped entirely, i.e. Omeluum telling you about the stasis, has any significance whatsoever. Your doctor telling you the rate of your cancer's growth has slowed is an absolutely worthless statement which has no effect on what you should be doing, until the doctor can say it's cured.
To treat anything before Omeluum as anything other than this is patent stupidity. If one wants to roleplay as such that's a-ok, but they should give that character the lowest rollable intelligence of 3, which we can't even do since the game uses point buy.

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Editing my initial post because it came across a little too aggressive, but you should be very careful about statements you make about cancer, a real world problem which directly affects people. "Your doctor telling you the rate of your cancer's growth has slowed is an absolutely worthless statement..." is not a great thing to be saying, neither true nor tactful.

Who cares what you think of others' playstyles to be honest? Play the game your own way. And if you're looking for a reward give yourself a pat on the back or a round of applause.

btw Halsin specifically states the ceremorphosis has been slowed, but to be honest if your character hasn't worked that out by the time you've taken all those long rests maybe he'll never work it out.

Last edited by crashdaddy; 19/03/21 01:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
And that is exactly my point. If you want the game to go from good to EXCELLENT, you need to drive the narrative. You need to reward players for driving harder and challenging themselves, not the opposite. The game, right now, rewards me more if I don't drive towards the goal. If I carefully move around the map, searching every pixel, I find better weapons, armor, magic items, books, tomes, etc. that give me more context and story. If I rest a lot, I get more dialogue and character development.

I'm saying that Larian needs to do the opposite to make the game an incredible experience. Drive players to the helm of the mind flayer ship.

This isn't a action adventure...

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Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
You come across multiple instances of "true souls" not have turned into mindflayers before you ever even get to Halsin. The game has already given you multiple clue that the tad pole in your head, is not "normal" as to what Lae'zael and the others know to be true of illithid tadpoles, that fact is what relieves the pressure that is conveyed in the very beginning. It's further corroborated and reinforced if you do Omeluum's quest.
You seem to be playing the game without paying any attention to the contextual clues that the narrator and the NPC's are giving you from the moment you meet Astarion going forward. I don't think I can help you with that. Maybe that's a failure on Larian's part that they didn't envision a portion of players wouldn't pick up on what they were trying to convey.

I picked up exactly on the contextual clues, which stated the process has been merely *SLOWED*, not *SOLVED* and that you can still turn *ANY MOMENT NOW*, because you are already past the standard deadline.
Saying that your situation is weird because you should have turned already in no way implies you aren't about to turn now. It just implies it took longer than usual, not that it isn't happening, and not that it isn't about to happen.

If you could find a true soul that's verifiably been infected for months on end already, that would be one thing. But you don't. Every true soul, be they companion, dead when you found them, or killed by you, can only be verifiably infected for the same length of time you were. Even with Gut, you know she was already there before you, and not on the mindflayer ship, but you have no way of knowing if she was infected the day before you, the week, or what, so you can only treat it as her having been infected the same instant as you. So they are all just as liable to turn overnight as you are.

The first, and only, contextual clue that you don't need to be worried is Omeluum.
And you don't even need to do his quest by the way, in the very first conversation he tells you about the stasis. If you let him brain scan you at least.
You, Grudgebearer, have been picking up on something they DIDN'T convey. Omeluum presents the first and only reasoning for thinking the way you are.
Again, saying the process is slowed means absolutely nothing. It has no significance. Only saying it has been stopped entirely, i.e. Omeluum telling you about the stasis, has any significance whatsoever. Your doctor telling you the rate of your cancer's growth has slowed is an absolutely worthless statement which has no effect on what you should be doing, until the doctor can say it's cured.
To treat anything before Omeluum as anything other than this is patent stupidity. If one wants to roleplay as such that's a-ok, but they should give that character the lowest rollable intelligence of 3, which we can't even do since the game uses point buy.

And where did I say that it solved the problem? Nowhere.

What I've said, is exactly what the game tells you as you progress through it, that what you though was the case with the tadpole in your head, is not, that you are not in imminent danger of succumbing to ceramorphosis, which is why as you play the game, the early sense of "OMG WE HAVE TO GE THIS OUT ASAP" lessens, as you learn more information.

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