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#765866 19/03/21 01:56 PM
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Short rests are meant to recover HP and a spell slot with Arcane Recovery. Right?

Am I missing something? Is anyone else NOT getting a spell slot back during short rests?

GM4Him #765873 19/03/21 02:22 PM
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Arcane Recovery is a long rest ability you have to activate from the hotbar.

GM4Him #765875 19/03/21 02:26 PM
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??? You have to activate Arcane Recover from the Hotbar? Really? That should be a short rest thing, not long rest. Short rest allows Arcane Recovery. That's part of the purpose for short rest. Long rest recovers ALL spell slots.

Well, ok. At least it's there somewhere. Thanks for letting me know. I never realized it was on the hotbar.

GM4Him #765881 19/03/21 02:41 PM
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They've made arcane recovery a skill that you can use at any point out of combat, but only once per long rest; mechanically, for a video game, that tracks more or less with its 5e function, it's just kind of fiddly and annoying.

The current problem with Arcane recovery is the same problem that faces many of Larian's attempts: it works now, while we're level capped to 4, but after that, the UI design will make it impractical to actually use it as flexibly as you are meant to be able to.... the design is clunky and prone to growing unwieldy very quickly. Right now, your AR button pops a selection box with two options: 2 1st level slots or 1 2nd level slot. However, what happens at level 5? At 5 we can recover 3 levels worth of slots. That means we can recover: (one 3rd level), (one 2nd level and one 1st level), or (three 1st levels). Will we then have 3 identical-looking buttons to represent these?

What about at 9th level, when we can recover 5 levels worth of spells: (one 5th level), (one 4th level and one 1st level), (one 3rd level and one 2nd level), (one 3rd level and two 1st levels), (two 2nd levels and one 1st level), (one 2nd level and three 1st levels) or (All 1st levels). Will we have a strong of identical buttons for those, as they're doing so far? It's not as bad as the issue will be for sorcerer's meta magic, but it's still pretty bad.

GM4Him #765886 19/03/21 02:50 PM
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Well, I also have a problem with this because I didn't even know it existed as something I'd have to trigger. Like in Solasta, shouldn't it just be automatic when you Short Rest? The point, again, of short rests is to use Arcane Recovery, etc. and to get back some HP. Isn't it? Maybe that's just the way I've been playing D&D.

Using Arcane Recovery as a skill, though, does provide the advantage that if you don't need to recover a spell slot at time of short rest then you can save it for later.

But then, why would you short rest if you don't need to recover spell slots if you have tons of food items that can heal HP and potions to boot?

So...makes no sense to me.

If you are going to go this approach of making it a skill that can be used at any time, that's fine. However, either do away with short rests or limit healing items to potions. (I'd prefer limiting healing items to potions, myself. Makes a lot more sense than eating a rack of ribs as a bonus action.) Otherwise, short rests are practically meaningless in the game as is. I hardly use them. I was only using them because I thought they'd make it so I could recover a spell slot as an alternative to End Day. Now that I know they have no impact on spell slot recovery... I probably won't use them much at all... or I'll use them and ignore food. Food takes up too much space and weight anyway.

GM4Him #765921 19/03/21 05:22 PM
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Warlocks get their spells slots back on a short rest.
Battlemaster abilities are on a short rest as well.
Just pointing out that short rest isn't just for a quick heal(I completely agree with removing food healing).

GM4Him #765929 19/03/21 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Well, I also have a problem with this because I didn't even know it existed as something I'd have to trigger. Like in Solasta, shouldn't it just be automatic when you Short Rest? The point, again, of short rests is to use Arcane Recovery, etc. and to get back some HP. Isn't it? Maybe that's just the way I've been playing D&D.

Using Arcane Recovery as a skill, though, does provide the advantage that if you don't need to recover a spell slot at time of short rest then you can save it for later.

But then, why would you short rest if you don't need to recover spell slots if you have tons of food items that can heal HP and potions to boot?

So...makes no sense to me.

If you are going to go this approach of making it a skill that can be used at any time, that's fine. However, either do away with short rests or limit healing items to potions. (I'd prefer limiting healing items to potions, myself. Makes a lot more sense than eating a rack of ribs as a bonus action.) Otherwise, short rests are practically meaningless in the game as is. I hardly use them. I was only using them because I thought they'd make it so I could recover a spell slot as an alternative to End Day. Now that I know they have no impact on spell slot recovery... I probably won't use them much at all... or I'll use them and ignore food. Food takes up too much space and weight anyway.
You might have a fighter in your party that want to short rest to recover his Action Surge or Superiority Dice.
And Arcane Recovery isn't automatic in 5e. You have to chose to use it during short rest, and you can do it only onece per long rest.
So Larians solution is fine, exept for the interface.

GM4Him #765933 19/03/21 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Well, I also have a problem with this because I didn't even know it existed as something I'd have to trigger. Like in Solasta, shouldn't it just be automatic when you Short Rest? The point, again, of short rests is to use Arcane Recovery, etc. and to get back some HP. Isn't it? Maybe that's just the way I've been playing D&D.

Using Arcane Recovery as a skill, though, does provide the advantage that if you don't need to recover a spell slot at time of short rest then you can save it for later.

But then, why would you short rest if you don't need to recover spell slots if you have tons of food items that can heal HP and potions to boot?

So...makes no sense to me.

If you are going to go this approach of making it a skill that can be used at any time, that's fine. However, either do away with short rests or limit healing items to potions. (I'd prefer limiting healing items to potions, myself. Makes a lot more sense than eating a rack of ribs as a bonus action.) Otherwise, short rests are practically meaningless in the game as is. I hardly use them. I was only using them because I thought they'd make it so I could recover a spell slot as an alternative to End Day. Now that I know they have no impact on spell slot recovery... I probably won't use them much at all... or I'll use them and ignore food. Food takes up too much space and weight anyway.

You have a seriously OP home brew if you're using arcane recovery every short rest.

GM4Him #766020 20/03/21 01:02 PM
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Arcane Recovery is just another thing they changed, and even though it currently works well and very much in the spirit of the rules, it will be problematic later as Niara pointed out.

It all starts with Larian not wanting to implement the resting system properly. Short Rest is more than the 2x auto-instaheal button they put in the UI. Solasta has a separate interface for Short Rest and while I'm not a big fan of clicking dice manually heal X amount at a time, they are correct in making a proper event out of it. Because it involves choices and represents the passing of an hour in game time.

That said, AR could work as it is with a better interface where you would click on the levels you want to recover until the total has been reached. Instead of making a separate ability for every possible combination of levels.

The same UI approach plagues memorizing spells too. It already looks bad at level 4 when every single upcastable level 1 spell is listed as a separate level 2 spell. The actual level 2 spells are lost in that mess. The image of that interface for a level 10 Wizard scares me.

They just need to rework the UI and resting systems.

1varangian #766268 22/03/21 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Arcane Recovery is just another thing they changed, and even though it currently works well and very much in the spirit of the rules, it will be problematic later as Niara pointed out.

It all starts with Larian not wanting to implement the resting system properly. Short Rest is more than the 2x auto-instaheal button they put in the UI. Solasta has a separate interface for Short Rest and while I'm not a big fan of clicking dice manually heal X amount at a time, they are correct in making a proper event out of it. Because it involves choices and represents the passing of an hour in game time.

That said, AR could work as it is with a better interface where you would click on the levels you want to recover until the total has been reached. Instead of making a separate ability for every possible combination of levels.

The same UI approach plagues memorizing spells too. It already looks bad at level 4 when every single upcastable level 1 spell is listed as a separate level 2 spell. The actual level 2 spells are lost in that mess. The image of that interface for a level 10 Wizard scares me.

They just need to rework the UI and resting systems.


Amen!

1varangian #766271 22/03/21 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Arcane Recovery is just another thing they changed, and even though it currently works well and very much in the spirit of the rules, it will be problematic later as Niara pointed out.

It all starts with Larian not wanting to implement the resting system properly. Short Rest is more than the 2x auto-instaheal button they put in the UI. Solasta has a separate interface for Short Rest and while I'm not a big fan of clicking dice manually heal X amount at a time, they are correct in making a proper event out of it. Because it involves choices and represents the passing of an hour in game time.

That said, AR could work as it is with a better interface where you would click on the levels you want to recover until the total has been reached. Instead of making a separate ability for every possible combination of levels.

The same UI approach plagues memorizing spells too. It already looks bad at level 4 when every single upcastable level 1 spell is listed as a separate level 2 spell. The actual level 2 spells are lost in that mess. The image of that interface for a level 10 Wizard scares me.

They just need to rework the UI and resting systems.

Too bad EA will be stuck at level 4 so we won't be able to really test how bad things will get without a revision of the UI.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Too bad EA will be stuck at level 4 so we won't be able to really test how bad things will get without a revision of the UI.

I imagine it's the opposite, if not for the early access they probably wouldn't have added Arcane Recovery in yet. My guess is the system they have here is a placeholder and they don't have to worry about when they retool it since they're not letting the public mess with it till release. I'd expect a slight buff where the Arcane Recovery has a number of charges you can expend to regain a spell equal to the charges spent. That's easier to implement and scales better.


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