Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Oct 2020
D
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
D
Joined: Oct 2020
So Wyll through his special trait 'blade of frontiers' is able to use rapiers, which is nice because it gives him a beefier martial weapon to use that most warlocks can't and fits his name. That's all great.

The weapon itself however... is not a rapier. He is equipped with a saber, one that is close to a cavalry saber or naval cutlass from the real world, which is very different to a rapier. A rapier has quillion(s), which allow the sword to sweep through the open space between fighters in a point oriented fight to engage a blade. This makes the rapier look, handle and fight very differently from a saber

I looked to see what a saber would be in 5e and I couldn't find it on any of the weapon lists, scimitar would be a closer fit in terms of a curved sword that can cut or thrust.

My suggestion is thus: Please change the model of Wyll's sword to be a real rapier or add a saber classification to the game and make it that.



[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Second image for a more broad look at sword types throughout history

[img]https://preview.redd.it/qjbsuczmjoy...4c3dfd7cc07a9a80ba758140f74416ec4127566c[/img]

Joined: Mar 2021
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2021
Oh dang. I must have slain Wyll before I found out he was playable.

Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by dudeface
So Wyll through his special trait 'blade of frontiers' is able to use rapiers, which is nice because it gives him a beefier martial weapon to use that most warlocks can't and fits his name. That's all great.

The weapon itself however... is not a rapier. He is equipped with a saber, one that is close to a cavalry saber or naval cutlass from the real world, which is very different to a rapier. A rapier has quillion(s), which allow the sword to sweep through the open space between fighters in a point oriented fight to engage a blade. This makes the rapier look, handle and fight very differently from a saber

I looked to see what a saber would be in 5e and I couldn't find it on any of the weapon lists, scimitar would be a closer fit in terms of a curved sword that can cut or thrust.

My suggestion is thus: Please change the model of Wyll's sword to be a real rapier or add a saber classification to the game and make it that.



[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]

Second image for a more broad look at sword types throughout history

[img]https://preview.redd.it/qjbsuczmjoy...4c3dfd7cc07a9a80ba758140f74416ec4127566c[/img]
Yep, you're 100% correct. I actually own a rapier (they're heavier than they look) that looks exactly like the middle one in the image. Quillions and loop guard are there. It's called something "del Cid" (can't remember), then I have another one called "Tizona del Cid", but I don't know if it qualifies as a Rapier.

Joined: Feb 2021
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Feb 2021
Speaking of Rapier in this game, I would love to also see Main Gauche implemented as an off hand complement to it (and yes they available in the 5e rule-set as an off hand weapon). Currently you cannot off hand even a dagger with the rapier in this implementation of the game.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
As far as i know there are no parrying daggers in 5e.

5e dual wielding is kind of shitty like that. You can't wield a rapier and an off-hand weapon unless you take the feat that let's you dual wield two long swords too. But they made scimitars light for whatever strange reason (probably because Drizzt).


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
As far as i know there are no parrying daggers in 5e.

5e dual wielding is kind of shitty like that. You can't wield a rapier and an off-hand weapon unless you take the feat that let's you dual wield two long swords too. But they made scimitars light for whatever strange reason (probably because Drizzt).


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Sep 2015
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
Well, the classification of weapons is fluid (at what exact lengh is the difference between short sword and long sword, and what do you measure to define lengh) and a computer game is not a simulation. In DnD every weapon has to fit in a weapon category and those categories have their stats for balance reasons, not for realism.
The category sabre does not exist in DnD, I think scimitar is the closest match.

So for the sake of simplicity and if we restrict ourselves to swords.
- rapier: long, straight and thin sword
- scimitar: any curved sword
- longsword: any sword that is neither very thin or very curved
- greatsword: any sword that is so large that you must use both hands in order to fight with it at all
- shortsword: anything that is smaller than the stuff above but taller than a dagger (sorry, I have no clear value for the lengh)

Rapiers deal 1d8 damage and they are finesse but NOT light (no dual wielding with it)
Scimitars and shortswords deal 1d6 damage and are finesse and light (dual wielding possible)
Once again, those rules have been made for balance, not for realism.
Most players and maybe also the creators of these rules are not experts for the classification of old weapons.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Which they could have easily solved by not making rapier a 1d8 weapon, or by making it Special Versatile weapon that deals 1d8 if wielded alone and 1d6 if wielded with an off-hand weapon or shield.

The problem remains that common use dual wielding (big weapon plus off-hand weapon) such as rapier/long sword + dagger or mace + hand axe are still tied behind the same feat that enables ridonkilus big weapon dual wielding despite being thematically very different.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Sep 2015
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
I think in DnD 3E the off hand weapon must be light to avoid a penalty, so rapier+dagger was possible.
I am not an expert though.
There are so many rule sets that its hard to remember which rule belongs to which rule set.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Oct 2020
H
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
H
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by GristlyKnuckle
Oh dang. I must have slain Wyll before I found out he was playable.
Some days he just days all on his own. Though to be fair that was in earlier versions and I've not seen it lately.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
apprentice
OP Offline
apprentice
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Well, the classification of weapons is fluid (at what exact lengh is the difference between short sword and long sword, and what do you measure to define lengh) and a computer game is not a simulation. In DnD every weapon has to fit in a weapon category and those categories have their stats for balance reasons, not for realism.
The category sabre does not exist in DnD, I think scimitar is the closest match.

So for the sake of simplicity and if we restrict ourselves to swords.
- rapier: long, straight and thin sword
- scimitar: any curved sword
- longsword: any sword that is neither very thin or very curved
- greatsword: any sword that is so large that you must use both hands in order to fight with it at all
- shortsword: anything that is smaller than the stuff above but taller than a dagger (sorry, I have no clear value for the lengh)

Rapiers deal 1d8 damage and they are finesse but NOT light (no dual wielding with it)
Scimitars and shortswords deal 1d6 damage and are finesse and light (dual wielding possible)
Once again, those rules have been made for balance, not for realism.
Most players and maybe also the creators of these rules are not experts for the classification of old weapons.

I completely understand the need for simplicity, and I don't have a problem with the mechanics of different weapons being put into categories for simplicity's sake, but the visual for the current rapier Wyll holds is just simple not a rapier and it bugs me. Sabers in real life have many different curved and straight variants, but the main thing that would be consistent across all variants from saber to rapier is the riccaso, the area underneath the finger rings or pas d'ane where a rapier user would hook one or two fingers for better point control. A saber has no ricasso and is held in either a hammer grip or with the thumb on the back of the grip or halfway depending on the style or technique.

Tangent aside, Wyll can still be the blade of frontiers just fine with a rapier, but the rapier model itself should be a rapier

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Not only that, word on the street is Laezel is disappointed by the measure of the blade.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
I'd love to see a visual update for Wyll's rapier. However, at the moment, his stat block is terrible for a melee specialist, so until they update that he's just an eldritch blast bot.

Joined: Nov 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by dwig
I'd love to see a visual update for Wyll's rapier. However, at the moment, his stat block is terrible for a melee specialist, so until they update that he's just an eldritch blast bot.

Maybe IF hexblade gets added they could move him into that subclass, pact of the blade rapier would fit. If Mizora gets added she could be a weakened Devil warlock with Fiend?

Joined: Jan 2021
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by Ankou
Not only that, word on the street is Laezel is disappointed by the measure of the blade.
Well someone had to say something like that. hahaha

On another (but not entirely unrelated) note: sheathes for blades while they're not being used would be nice as well.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Maybe IF hexblade gets added they could move him into that subclass, pact of the blade rapier would fit. If Mizora gets added she could be a weakened Devil warlock with Fiend?
http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/warlock:hexblade

Serious question: Can hexblade have pact with fiend? O_o
Since whole Wylls story seem to be wraped around that, and i kinda doubt that Larian will change it whole, just so Wyll can have specialisation that would fit his title.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Sep 2015
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Sep 2015
Well, when you create a warlock you have to chose your patron at the start so fiend and hexblade are exclusive because they are different subclasses.
I guess Wyll will always be a fiend warlock because it makes sense for his story.

If you play with your friends and you can convince the GM that patron xxx can give you the powers of a hexblade, thats a different story.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Serious question: Can hexblade have pact with fiend? O_o

Yes, that stuff is just fluff.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Mar 2021
member
Offline
member
Joined: Mar 2021
Originally Posted by dudeface
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Well, the classification of weapons is fluid (at what exact lengh is the difference between short sword and long sword, and what do you measure to define lengh) and a computer game is not a simulation. In DnD every weapon has to fit in a weapon category and those categories have their stats for balance reasons, not for realism.
The category sabre does not exist in DnD, I think scimitar is the closest match.

So for the sake of simplicity and if we restrict ourselves to swords.
- rapier: long, straight and thin sword
- scimitar: any curved sword
- longsword: any sword that is neither very thin or very curved
- greatsword: any sword that is so large that you must use both hands in order to fight with it at all
- shortsword: anything that is smaller than the stuff above but taller than a dagger (sorry, I have no clear value for the lengh)

Rapiers deal 1d8 damage and they are finesse but NOT light (no dual wielding with it)
Scimitars and shortswords deal 1d6 damage and are finesse and light (dual wielding possible)
Once again, those rules have been made for balance, not for realism.
Most players and maybe also the creators of these rules are not experts for the classification of old weapons.

I completely understand the need for simplicity, and I don't have a problem with the mechanics of different weapons being put into categories for simplicity's sake, but the visual for the current rapier Wyll holds is just simple not a rapier and it bugs me. Sabers in real life have many different curved and straight variants, but the main thing that would be consistent across all variants from saber to rapier is the riccaso, the area underneath the finger rings or pas d'ane where a rapier user would hook one or two fingers for better point control. A saber has no ricasso and is held in either a hammer grip or with the thumb on the back of the grip or halfway depending on the style or technique.

Tangent aside, Wyll can still be the blade of frontiers just fine with a rapier, but the rapier model itself should be a rapier

The rapier model in the game is basically a side sword blade stuck onto a gymnasium saber's hilt.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Which is doubly bizarre because in the loading screen Astarion actually does have a rapier.

Joined: Nov 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Nov 2020
I was always under the assumption that the pacts could be a little loose and that a Fiend could actually lead you to have a hexblade "patron" with enough justification?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5