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I mean, if you're going to measure the worth of something by its rarity/the difficulty of procuring it, it should be more expensive than platinum. 2 Soul Coins in the whole of EA? Currently worth 10 gold each.

But as soon as there's greater transactional demand ...

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maybe the merchants don't know what it is and think you are selling then a normal, be it fancy, coin?
afterall, not everybody knwos about the hells and its currency...

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I prefer to round out my portfolio with Drowge Coin.

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Yep. I got to say soul coins are not easy to get. Bitcoin is also valuable, but not as valuable as them. If you are looking for real value in the real world then trading some of these coins against the dollar it's right smart. Moreover, getting a reliable cfds trader that can allow you to trade these assets 24/7. That's what I love more about trading crypto compared to Forex. When the markets close Bitcoin is still moving with no rest. With a bright system you can scalp trade it all day long and make it a lucrative habit.

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I really hope value of this item will be raised so we are tempted to sell it ...
And i really hope in some later game there will be some really cool item we could purcase only for that coin, so we can regret we sold it. laugh


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I really hope value of this item will be raised so we are tempted to sell it ...
And i really hope in some later game there will be some really cool item we could purcase only for that coin, so we can regret we sold it. laugh

There’s some hints the group may end up going to Avernus. I wonder if some of your party members get killed or sell their soul to Raphael, you will be able to reclaim them using the soul coin?

They may be worth holding onto for the finale. Just my theory.

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Originally Posted by Adiktus
I mean, if you're going to measure the worth of something by its rarity/the difficulty of procuring it, it should be more expensive than platinum. 2 Soul Coins in the whole of EA? Currently worth 10 gold each.

But as soon as there's greater transactional demand ...
There's actually three. aside from the one the Teifling can give you, there's two in the crypt, although one of them is missing a text description and won't stack with the other two.

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There is obviously going to be some important use for these coins. I agree that more than likely, we will be going to Avernus, it would be cool if we had to use them to "buy back" a companions soul. Although what would also be cool, is if there were "bonus" treasure areas in Avernus, maybe a maze, or dungeon, that will be opened by the coins, where you can go to get gear or treasure. They did a similar thing in DOS 2, where you could use soul jars to access areas in a graveyard or some ruins or something (can't quite remember).

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I'm not sure but I probably sold the soul coins in my first run. Then I saw the "quest related" tag. Thus I decide for a new run laugh

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I am looking forward to this and I really hope alignment gets implemented in some meaningful way. Spending a soul coin is a morally questionable act.

You can also siphon energy from a soul coin to heal yourself -- slowly destroying the soul inside -- which is an evil act. Hope is is tracked in some way.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I am looking forward to this and I really hope alignment gets implemented in some meaningful way. Spending a soul coin is a morally questionable act.

You can also siphon energy from a soul coin to heal yourself -- slowly destroying the soul inside -- which is an evil act. Hope is is tracked in some way.


Ah, actually, fully consuming the energy of a soul coin directly, either by asking it questions, taking its energy yourself, or shattering the coin, are ALL considered *Good* acts. However you expend the charge on a soul coin, the soul is ultimately freed - only burning them in infernal engines destroys the souls.

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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Originally Posted by Adiktus
I mean, if you're going to measure the worth of something by its rarity/the difficulty of procuring it, it should be more expensive than platinum. 2 Soul Coins in the whole of EA? Currently worth 10 gold each.

But as soon as there's greater transactional demand ...
There's actually three. aside from the one the Teifling can give you, there's two in the crypt, although one of them is missing a text description and won't stack with the other two.

As of patch 5, there is now only one in the crypt (the trapped room), the one that used to be in the room with the book of dead gods is now missing.

As to value, I remember seeing once (don't remember which patch) a value of 100 gold for the coins. I have not checked in patch 5 though.

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Useful to get a fast inspiration point

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There is also one near the two sarcs in the room with the traps.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I am looking forward to this and I really hope alignment gets implemented in some meaningful way. Spending a soul coin is a morally questionable act.

You can also siphon energy from a soul coin to heal yourself -- slowly destroying the soul inside -- which is an evil act. Hope is is tracked in some way.


Ah, actually, fully consuming the energy of a soul coin directly, either by asking it questions, taking its energy yourself, or shattering the coin, are ALL considered *Good* acts. However you expend the charge on a soul coin, the soul is ultimately freed - only burning them in infernal engines destroys the souls.

Somehow missed this. I disagree. Asking questions keeps the coin in eternal torment. Taking the energy is soul eating and destroys the soul. Like with DOS2, soul vampires are the worst kind . . .

Breaking the coin -- eliminating a valuable commodity, source of healing and source of quest information is the only good act.

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I mean, you can disagree, and run it that way, if you want to, in your game... but the lore as set out by the Avernus book is as I described. I can find you the relevant paragraph if you'd like?

A coin has three charges, and asking aquestion consumes a charge. Consuming all three charges frees the soul to pass to whatever afterlife would otherwise await it, as does shattering the coin. Burning it in an infernal engine destroys the soul by using it as fuel, but any other method of destroying a coin frees it - and that's counted as a good act.

I agree that drawing off energy *Seems* like you're eating the soul, but formally speaking, that's not what's actually happening, apparently... Perhaps the concept is that the energy you take from it counts as exacting its pennance or payment, rather than actually devouring the soul itself?

Here we are (bolding mine):



Soul coins are about 5 inches across and about an inch thick, minted from infernal iron. Each coin weighs one-third of a pound, and is inscribed with Infernal writing and a spell that magically binds a single soul to the coin. Because each soul coin has a unique soul trapped within it, each has a story. A creature might have been imprisoned as a result of defaulting on a deal, while another might be the victim of a night hag’s curse.

Carrying Soul Coins. To hold a soul coin is to feel the soul bound within it — overcome with rage or fraught with despair.

An evil creature can carry as many soul coins as it wishes (up to its maximum weight allowance). A non-evil creature can carry a number of soul coins equal to or less than its Constitution modifier without penalty. A non-evil creature carrying a number of soul coins greater than its Constitution modifier has disadvantage on its attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws.

[...]

Using a Soul Coin. A soul coin has 3 charges. A creature carrying the coin can use its action to expend 1 charge from a soul coin and use it to do one of the following:

Drain Life. You siphon away some of the soul’s essence and gain 1d10 temporary hit points.

Query. You telepathically ask the soul a question and receive a brief telepathic response, which you can understand. The soul knows only what it knew in life, but it must answer you truthfully and to the best of its ability. The answer is no more than a sentence or two and might be cryptic.

[...]

Freeing a Soul. Casting a spell that removes a curse on a soul coin frees the soul trapped within it, as does expending all of the coin’s charges. The coin itself rusts from within and is destroyed once the soul is released. A freed soul travels to the realm of the god it served or the outer plane most closely tied to its alignment (DM’s choice). The souls of lawful evil creatures released from soul coins typically emerge from the River Styx as lemure devils.

A soul can also be freed by destroying the coin that contains it. A soul coin has AC 19, 1 hit point for each charge it has remaining, and immunity to all damage except that which is dealt by a hellfire weapon or an infernal war machine’s furnace (see "Soul Fuel").

Freeing a soul from a soul coin is considered a good act, even if the soul belongs to an evil creature.

Hellish Currency. Soul coins are a currency of the Nine Hells and are highly valued by devils. The coins are used among the infernal hierarchy to barter for favors, bribe the unwilling, and reward the faithful for services rendered.

Soul coins are created by Mammon and his greater devils on Minauros, the third layer of the Nine Hells, in a vast chamber where the captured souls of evil mortals are bound into the coins. These coins are then distributed throughout the Nine Hells to be used for goods and services, infernal deals, dark bargains, and bribes.

Last edited by Niara; 18/08/21 05:52 AM.
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But look at the organization, not just the words: "Freeing a Soul" / "Using a Soul Coin" If using a soul coin was freeing it "freeing wouldn't need its own section.

Selflessly destroying the coin and ending the torment that the soul is experiencing is the only good act. Draining it of it vitality until it can slip between the bars is not -- not as evil as burning it in a war machine but not good either. Otherwise you wouldn't have a "Freeing a Soul" section and a "Using a Soul Coin" section. These are so evil that good characters can only bear to hold so many -- they are just worn down by hearing the screams of agony over time.

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Using a coin and freeing the soul are not synonymous, and must be described separately; you can use the coin once and not free the soul, because you only free the soul when you use all of the charges, which is not a part of the description of how you can use those charges. You can also free the soul without using any charges... so they must have independent paragraphs. Using all of the charges frees the soul: it says that in black and white, undeniably and unquestionably directly in the text. Freeing the soul is a good act: it also says that in black and white, undeniably and unarguably in the text.

Like ANY and EVERY magic item with limited charges, the section related to what happens when you spend all of its charges is a separate paragraph to the things you can do by using those charges. The section for Freeing the soul is in one part the paragraph that deals with what happens when you spend all of this magic item's charges, and in another it also contains ways of freeing that are not tied up with using the charges.


To be clear: I don't disagree that consuming the essence for healing definitely feels like you're doing something bad! It feels... wrong. However... formally speaking, as written, that's not how it works, and we either have to house rule it differently, or come up with a palatable explanation for what's actually happening when we do this. The explanation that by drawing energy from the soul you are less "breaking" the contract, and more "paying it out" to let the soul go early before it is totally obliterated is as near as I can think of for a palatable answer: I can image some poor being desperate to help her friends begging the coin she's carrying to lend her enough strength to do it, and in that exchange the soul giving its remainder and going free to its afterlife... I can wrangle that in my head, if I have to.

I'll quote again:

"A soul coin has 3 charges. A creature carrying the coin can use its action to expend 1 charge from a soul coin and use it to do one of the following:

Drain Life. [...] || Query. [...] "

"Freeing a Soul. Casting a spell that removes a curse on a soul coin frees the soul trapped within it, as does expending all of the coin’s charges."


The freeing a soul section is separate for multiple reasons, but primarily because they are distinct things, and also because the section deals with what happens when the charges are all used, and not with how you use the charges. Freeing the soul is not a function of using the coin - it's a result of using the coin. The section is telling you two things unrelated to how you can use the charges: what happens when the coin runs out of charges, and how to destroy the magic item without using its charges: that is why it is a separate paragraph... just like any other magic item with limited charges.

The meaning cannot get any more straight forward than this.


Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
These are so evil that good characters can only bear to hold so many -- they are just worn down by hearing the screams of agony over time.

Wren, my poor little halfing bard with her negative constitution modifier and hoplessly idealistic, many-chance-giving heart can't even carry one - she'd be driven to the ground in a weeping, distressed mess, unable to move, just trying to hold onto a single coin, I think... she would never dream of taking its energy by force; the concept would horrify her... but she might ask it to help her, and and she'd defintely want to know who they were, and if there was anything she could do to help them...

Last edited by Niara; 19/08/21 12:03 AM.
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While RAW it's not an evil act to use the soul to heal yourself, not immediately freeing the soul seems like it could be an evil act depending on the soul.
Originally Posted by Niara
A creature might have been imprisoned as the result of defaulting on a deal, while another might be the victim of a night hag's curse [...]
Carrying Soul Coins. To hold a soul coin is to feel the soul bound within it — overcome with rage or fraught with despair.
The first line tells us that not all soul coins contain the souls of evil creatures (who in 5e might "deserve" to be punished). Ergo, some souls are of "good" or "neutral" beings. Are these souls constantly feeling rage/despair, and thus being tormented, while in the coin? If so, then saving the coin for Drain Life/Query means you're extending a creature's suffering for personal benefit. Seems kinda evil.

Does the "good act" of (eventually) freeing the soul balance out the "evil act" of extending their suffering? Seems like the only ethical way to use a soul coin is to immediately use up all the charges or destroy the coin.

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I certainly have characters who would agree with you and feel that way, mrfuji3...

Though I'd say that it's a dangerous road to entertain the 'not doing the "good" thing is thereby evil' line. That line of reasoning actually lessens and weakens what it means to be good.

Immediately freeing the soul is a good act; not doing so immediately is not evil, it's just not good, and that grey neutral space is what makes actual good and evil actions shine out. A pragmatic but good person may retrieve coins from devils, who meant only to hoard their soul value or burn them in engines, and resolve to free them, but, they're trying to survive in the hells, and they need every resource they can get - so they will free them, but they need the help they can provide along the way first, and that may not be all at once. I don't think a reasonable person could judge that person poorly for doing so, so long as they remained true to their intention and did eventually free all of the coins they gathered.

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