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You know... if we are going to roll play, would not choosing a low charisma on a character also limit what facial models you should choose? I mean we do have some pretty ugly faces on the line ups, so if you are min maxing with an 8 charisma the more pleasant faces really should not be available right? Where if you are doing a charisma class like warlock, bard, sorc, etc.. then should that also not limit you to only the more pleasing face options (and exclude the ugly ones). Now I know Charisma is not just physical appearance and its subjective and racial preferences would play a part, but that physical appearance can make a difference in perception of your character. And yes, some characters in the game which have a pleasant appearance have abysmal personality's (the drow cleric as a prime example). But even still some fans "fawn" over her as if they are looking past her personality. So I put it out to you, would this be a fun twist to have charisma affect your player characters face choices? Or are you absolutely against it? And for either reason... Why? Could it be an option in the game for those that want to do a more strict roll play? I am sure the answers might prove entertaining.

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Short answer: No.

You say you're aware that Charisma does not equal physical appearance, but the rest of your post is focused entirely around the assumption that it does.

It doesn't. So no.

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No.
Faces are subjective for what we consider attractive.

Not only is it anti-choice, I for one find that you could have a mug that was hit on every branch of the ugly tree -- and still have the natural charisma to scare a Dragon or lead an army to victory purely from their presence.

Last edited by Lethan; 23/03/21 09:52 AM.
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Certainly not


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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"He's not charming, he's just just hot" - Tulok the Barbarian, 2020

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Hell naw!!!! Charisma is my dumb stat, you don't fuck with it!

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No, it would not make sense to me. Charisma is a characteristics that translates across the multitude of races & species in this setting. What is pleasing to the eye on the other hand is not universal, or, as Lae'zel put it: your noses are too big.

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Maybe charisma should affect facial expressions. I mean, many people have complainef about weird faces in conversations. And the extrange reactions or "horror" faces that doesn't fit the dialogs. That could be what low charisma on someone handsome looks. I mean, something off that make people distrust you... 😂

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There was already a post about it.

Why would it? First of all, Charisma has little to do with ones apperance - it is not beauty stat (which if devs attempted to rate faces on 0-18 beauty scale would be most likely problematic in itself).

No other stat affects apperance - strength doesn't affect muscle density, dexterity deosn't affect... whatever it would affect.

While it might be interesting to see an RPG where stats would inform the look, I am sure most people would prefer to be able to specify both how their character looks and his stats seperately. If you feel certain faces aren't appropriate to certain stat - it is in your power to not use it.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
There was already a post about it.

Why would it? First of all, Charisma has little to do with ones apperance - it is not beauty stat (which if devs attempted to rate faces on 0-18 beauty scale would be most likely problematic in itself).

No other stat affects apperance - strength doesn't affect muscle density, dexterity deosn't affect... whatever it would affect.

While it might be interesting to see an RPG where stats would inform the look, I am sure most people would prefer to be able to specify both how their character looks and his stats seperately. If you feel certain faces aren't appropriate to certain stat - it is in your power to not use it.
Obviously the solution is then to give us a muscle slider which has a restricted range of possibilities based on your strength
and a thicc/stockiness slider with a restricted range based on your Con!
Oh and the option to wear glasses, but only for characters with 14+ Int!!!!

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I like, how it is in Vampire - there you have charisma and appearance as two different attributes, which makes sense.

Last edited by fylimar; 23/03/21 09:14 PM.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Oh and the option to wear glasses, but only for characters with 14+ Int!!!!

I would think that having glasses means that you're less intelligent, because poor eyesight is partly because of lack of good nutrition, not because you're too intelligent. In my experience, people who have glasses have been below average in brain department.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
There was already a post about it.

Why would it? First of all, Charisma has little to do with ones apperance - it is not beauty stat (which if devs attempted to rate faces on 0-18 beauty scale would be most likely problematic in itself).

No other stat affects apperance - strength doesn't affect muscle density, dexterity deosn't affect... whatever it would affect.

While it might be interesting to see an RPG where stats would inform the look, I am sure most people would prefer to be able to specify both how their character looks and his stats seperately. If you feel certain faces aren't appropriate to certain stat - it is in your power to not use it.

There are descriptions of how each stat can impact you character's appearance. (Personally I like to use them to get ideas for building a character's background, of course they are not set in stone). Notice, Charisma is not implied to affect appearance, Charisma is defined more as "presence", "confidence", "grace", etc.
How ability scores can impact appearance

Quote
For example, high Strength usually corresponds with a burly or athletic body, while a character with low Strength might be scrawny or plump.

A character with high Dexterity is probably lithe and slim, while a character with low Dexterity might be either gangly and awkward or heavy and thick-fingered.

A character with high Constitution usually looks healthy, with bright eyes and abundant energy. A character with low Constitution might be sickly or frail.

A character with high Intelligence might be highly inquisitive and studious, while a character with low Intelligence might speak simply or easily forget details.

A character with high Wisdom has good judgment, empathy, and a general awareness of what’s going on. A character with low Wisdom might be absent-minded, foolhardy, or oblivious.

A character with high Charisma exudes confidence, which is usually mixed with a graceful or intimidating presence. A character with a low Charisma might come across as abrasive, inarticulate, or timid.
Another example of how Charisma is more about presence, here is a snippet on why half-elves get a charisma bump:

Quote
Many half-elves learn at an early age to get along with everyone, defusing hostility and finding common ground. As a race, they have elven grace without elven aloofness and human energy without human boorishness. They often make excellent ambassadors and go-betweens (except between elves and humans, since each side suspects the half-elf of favoring the other).

They need to learn diplomacy to fit in and they have high energy and grace. Which doesn't have anything to do with how physically attractive they are.
Originally Posted by Aazo
You know... if we are going to roll play, would not choosing a low charisma on a character also limit what facial models you should choose? I mean we do have some pretty ugly faces on the line ups, so if you are min maxing with an 8 charisma the more pleasant faces really should not be available right? Where if you are doing a charisma class like warlock, bard, sorc, etc.. then should that also not limit you to only the more pleasing face options (and exclude the ugly ones). Now I know Charisma is not just physical appearance and its subjective and racial preferences would play a part, but that physical appearance can make a difference in perception of your character. And yes, some characters in the game which have a pleasant appearance have abysmal personality's (the drow cleric as a prime example). But even still some fans "fawn" over her as if they are looking past her personality. So I put it out to you, would this be a fun twist to have charisma affect your player characters face choices? Or are you absolutely against it? And for either reason... Why? Could it be an option in the game for those that want to do a more strict roll play? I am sure the answers might prove entertaining.
I don't think Minthara has a fan club because of attractiveness but rather how her intimidating presence plays out in the romance segment.
Halsin is the character everyone is being shallow about xD (Which is all fine and good).

I did write a post on how it would be cool for str, dex, and con to influence appearance (While not completely limiting options). But it doesn't make sense to me for intelligence, wisdom, or charisma to affect appearance.

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Yet another "no".

Charisma is presence, a way with words, an intuitive understanding of what makes people tick and willpower (the last channel magic for sorcerers and warlocks)

1st edition had an optional rule that split charisma into comeliness and charisma. You could imagine that's in place.

I've met some really unpleasant people who are awfully pleasant to look at and history is full of example unattractive people who rallied others to their cause. I mean Mao is ugly as sin but you wouldn't call him uncharismatic, right?

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No. I hope it never does. I don't want my character not looking EXACTLY how I want him to, bc of some stat. That would limit the entire character creation, even though it might make some logical sense.

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It should not be explicitly attached to appearance. I would not be opposed to a cursed item that drops Charisma to 3 and makes the player turn into a fuggly zombie though. Or a magic mirror that raises Charisma to 21 and just leaves all the NPCs you meet dumbstruck with awe at your magnetic features in convo. But I'd like to have as many options and as much flexibility as possible to alter cosmetic stuff at will. Not being able to alter appearance after char creation is wildly annoying for 2021

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Honestly, I think too many people are opposed to the idea of Charisma affecting you model selections. SHOULD it? From a D&D perspective, it probably should at least a little. Want a pretty or handsome character, boost Charisma. Don't care, lower Charisma.

But it is true that Charisma is more than just looks. It's your ability with words, how you carry yourself, etc. A person who some might consider ugly can actually be attractive if they carry themselves well, exude confidence, smile, etc.

So ultimately, I'd rather they not worry about that. I'd say maybe Larian can create some not necessarily traditionally pretty/handsome models, though, so players can make themselves look not so attractive if they want. Sometimes its fun to create an absolutely crazy and/or ugly looking thug.

I know people don't like comparing to Solasta, but I do like how they have an age progression feature. You can make your character looks pretty grizzly if you want.

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Charisma has nothing to do with looks. I know a very good looking girl, that has no charisma at all and people tend to avoid her.
So a good appearance has nothing to do with how charismatic you are to the people.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Charisma has nothing to do with looks. I know a very good looking girl, that has no charisma at all and people tend to avoid her.
So a good appearance has nothing to do with how charismatic you are to the people.

Right. That's what I was trying to say, but I guess it didn't come out right. I meant that traditionally people viewed Charisma in D&D as the higher Charisma the prettier/more handsome the character.

But that's not always true. Some pretty people, like you say, are introverted and have no real social skills. Meanwhile, I've known some people who are not necessarily considered good looking who draw people to them just because they are so bubbly and caring and lovable. People can't get enough of them.

That's why I was thinking that it'd be better to just provide people some options to allow them to create models that aren't so handsome/pretty. Give the players the choice of whether they want to create the super model or the common, average looking person or even someone who looks like a bruiser. Whether Charisma is high or not, let the player pick.

But they'll probably do that anyway.

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Charisma is never about appearance, it's about personality. So it should not be 'But that's not always true', but 'But that is never true'.
That is why I brought Vampire as a n example, where you have two stats: appearance for looks and charisma for personality.

Last edited by fylimar; 25/03/21 08:44 AM.

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