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The major issue I have with this quest is that the fire spreads in real time, while our characters are locked in place during conversation and the especially egregious use of dice-rolling here. Since the fire is spreading in real time, then the game is acting like this is an action game, with a time-sensitive component to complete our tasks (getting the people out of the burning building). But the UI and character movement are the opposite of what an action game's UI and movement should be. And if this quest is not supposed to be an action game, then the fire should not be spreading in real time while our characters are forced to stand around talking and rolling dice.

There needs to be better coordination between the environment designer and the quest designer.

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Agreed, I have yet to be able to save both. And if you go up on the south west side and knock down the wall, jump the pile of rubble to save that one guy, then once you revive him he runs the wrong way out through the fire thus immolating him. And throwing water down only lasts for a few seconds then the fire pops up again.

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Use the Conjure Water spell. The fire won't spread until you break the doors open, so save the Duke's counselor first, and then go to Benryn and grab him, conjure water your way out. My bigger issue is with the atrocious pathing and AI in this game causing NPC's to get stuck or not follow you as they should rather often.

Or your companions or NPC's walking right through your druid's Moonbeam and getting angry, etc.

Last edited by Zenith; 27/03/21 03:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by Aazo
Agreed, I have yet to be able to save both. And if you go up on the south west side and knock down the wall, jump the pile of rubble to save that one guy, then once you revive him he runs the wrong way out through the fire thus immolating him. And throwing water down only lasts for a few seconds then the fire pops up again.

I have been able to save both, but it's just not fun having to fight the mechanics of foisting an action sequence onto the sluggish UI, dialogue boxes and dice-rolling. I would save before entering the burning building and there's always a chance that Benryn gets blinded or gets himself stuck while following my party out of the building. I'd then reload and try again.

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Originally Posted by Zenith
Use the Conjure Water spell. The fire won't spread until you break the doors open, so save the Duke's counselor first, and then go to Benryn and grab him, conjure water your way out. My bigger issue is with the atrocious pathing and AI in this game causing NPC's to get stuck or not follow you as they should rather often.

Or your companions or NPC's walking right through your druid's Moonbeam and getting angry, etc.

I've never tried saving the counselor first. I'd have Lae'zel pick up 2 or 3 water barrels to put out the fires, but I'd get only 2 seconds of reprieve before the ground that is now wet is burning again.

Yes, the terrible pathing and AI compound the problem of the mismatch between the environment and UI and dice-rolling mechanics. There shouldn't be any dice-rolling in a time-sensitive portion of the quest at all.

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Definitely agree and had the same feeling when playing this part of the game. Like as if this was some kind of odd real-time action sequence being grafted onto a game that doesn't work that way elsewhere. You'd expect it to at least automatically initiate the turn based mode, so everything can burn in 6 second intervals.

I'd expect the same if trapped in a room that was suddenly filling with water where the PCs might drown. This should be signaled to the player by entering turn based gameplay as if a combat was occurring.

It should really autosave beforehand if they are throwing stuff like that at us. Really it should autosave at the start of every combat encounter and during any area transition. But certainly before we enter an environment that has a ticking clock before sudden doom. Esp when the whole rest of the game seems to take place outside of time altogether.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 28/03/21 03:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
Like as if this was some kind of odd real-time action sequence being grafted onto a game that doesn't work that way elsewhere. You'd expect it to at least automatically initiate the turn based mode, so everything can burn in 6 second intervals.

Yeah, exactly. You put into words what I was thinking better than I could.

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While "Torment: Tides of Numenera" was not really good, especially compared to planescape torment, I liked the crisis system there.
Most of the time it was normal combat, but there were also some good examples where the game started turn based mode otherwise:
- Two groups are talking. If you do nothing they will fight each other. You can spend your turns to convince them not to fight each other or you can side with one of them or you just wait and watch how they kill each other.
- Your party has to distract a guard while one of your chars tries to mess with their computer. You have to ask him to show you around and you should ask him stuff and slow him down al the time. If he sees one of your chars working on their computer the whole area becomes hostile.

Yes, everything in the game should go turn based there.

navigating in buildings is terrible sometimes.
You click somewhere and the chars run on the roof or to the level below. And then the camera moves so that you do not see your chars at all.


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Originally Posted by Passerby
I've never tried saving the counselor first. I'd have Lae'zel pick up 2 or 3 water barrels to put out the fires, but I'd get only 2 seconds of reprieve before the ground that is now wet is burning again.

may I add that a wet floor that is covered with the contents of 3 water barrels hould absolutely NOT start burning again until all the water is evaporated, which would take quite a while (so long that you could make it out EASILY); burning building or not.


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