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I play Divine Divinity (DD) again, just because I wanted to play something else.
For those who do not know it: DD was Larians first game and it combines Diablo like combat with a huge hand crafted map and lots of NPC and quests.
I do not talk about graphics or game mechanics because there are 20 years between those games and one game is a single char action game, the other is turn based with a party.

Things that stayed the same between BG3 and DD:
- A huge hand crafted map with lots of stuff to explore
- There are a few huge maps (so you could enter almost all buildings without loading a new map). Only dungeons and a few special indoor areas are another map.
- You can take or move almost every item in the game. There are many containers, many of them are empty or have food inside.
- Your main enemy is a sect of cultists (note: we do not know how BG3 continues and you cannot join the cultists in DD)
- Every NPC has a value how much they like you and this influences the prize of items you can buy (note: In DD you could gain reputation by finishing quests and this reputation was added to this value)
- Shops get new stuff every day but they keep the stuff you sold them forever (note: In DD I sell all weapons in the armor shop and all armors in the weapon shop just to see which items are new.)
- A rather dark setting in general but you often find some funny things. Well, if you think this is fun, silly or dump depends on your sense of humor. Some stuff is nuts.
- Inventory management is a big mess (OK, BG3 is an improvement but it is still annoying)

The differences between DD and Bg3:
- DD had a day/night cycle ( It had no effect on quests but it is nice anyway)
- DD limited resting a bit (you could not click on the bed again, but leaving town or fighting some monsters was enough to rest again. You had to find a bed or carry a bed with you in order to rest)
- DD limited eating a bit (Food could heal you, but you could not eat several pieces of meat in a row. You had to do something else before you could eat again.)
- In DD you could explore almost the whole world from the start. It was easy to run into encounters that are way too difficult. You could not see level or stats of enemies unless you spend points in such a skill.
- Fast travel: DD had teleporters, but you had to find them and you had to find items to activate them. To get the activation items you had to find a person and sometimes do a quest for her. You could also instant travel between two pyramids, but first you had to place the pyramids in those places.
- DD had exp scaling (exp gained from monsters depend on your level)
- In DD every class could learn every ability. You had 3 classes (fighter/rogue/mage, male or female) but the only difference was starting abilities and how stats scale (one point of str gives a bigger damage bonus for fighters than for mages, one point of int gave mages more MP than fighters).
- BG3 has more different ways to solve quests and you have more ways to interact with the environment.
- DD does not start on a beach after your ship crashed.


summary:
Over 20 years Larian stayed true to themselves. They tried to improve what was already good but stuff that used to be bad is still not good.
- They like huge worlds and the stuff you could do and how you could interact with the environment became more and more complex. This is good in principle, but sometimes they overdo it way too much just because they can (barrelmancy, surfaces everywhere and such stuff)
- They hate classes and they think everyone should be able to do everything, at least in principle. For BG3 this is bad because DnD is based on different classes and different classes should feel different. The fact that many homebrew changes to DnD rules are so powerfull and they work for all classes (hight advantage, backstab, everyone can sneak as long as they avoid vision cone, everyone can use every scroll, and so on) reduces the experiance, at least for players who care at least a little bit about DnD.
- A good user interface is not their strong point. The inventory and how you select abilities can be improved.
It is usable and you can play and enjoy the game, but sometimes it can be a big mess.
- I prefer the rest and fast travel system of DD. You could rest often but you had to find a place to rest and travel there. You had to walk to the "waypoints" to use them and you had to find an item to use them ( different items for different teleporters)

I think BG3 will be a great game, but some DnD fans will be disappointed by the typical "Larian cheese".
But I like the change to DnD because it limits totally random items and extreme number inflation to some degree. (not so much a problem in DD, but in DOS2 I hated it)

Last edited by Madscientist; 01/04/21 11:38 AM.

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DnD fans will be disappointed anyway no matter what happens because nothing is ever good enough for super fans. You just gotta learn to shove those people aside and throw them away like the trash that they are. I'm glad Larian is strong willed enough to do this.

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Originally Posted by MrSam
DnD fans will be disappointed anyway no matter what happens because nothing is ever good enough for super fans. You just gotta learn to shove those people aside and throw them away like the trash that they are. I'm glad Larian is strong willed enough to do this.

DnD fans are not trash.
I think that if a game works together with wotc and uses the DnD licence, it should use the DnD rules and not a strange mix of DnD and their own crazy stuff.


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Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
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Wotc seems to be just fine with how Larian is making the game. You have right to your opinion and I have right to my own. Tryhard DnD fans are pure trash, this is my opinion and you just have to live with it.

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Originally Posted by MrSam
Most notorious Larian forum member fresh out of jail out on bail! I see you hiding in the corner and sweating when I enter the room.

No.


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
I play Divine Divinity (DD) again, just because I wanted to play something else.
For those who do not know it: DD was Larians first game and it combines Diablo like combat with a huge hand crafted map and lots of NPC and quests.
I do not talk about graphics or game mechanics because there are 20 years between those games and one game is a single char action game, the other is turn based with a party.

Things that stayed the same between BG3 and DD:
- A huge hand crafted map with lots of stuff to explore
- There are a few huge maps (so you could enter almost all buildings without loading a new map). Only dungeons and a few special indoor areas are another map.
- You can take or move almost every item in the game. There are many containers, many of them are empty or have food inside.
- Your main enemy is a sect of cultists (note: we do not know how BG3 continues and you cannot join the cultists in DD)
- Every NPC has a value how much they like you and this influences the prize of items you can buy (note: In DD you could gain reputation by finishing quests and this reputation was added to this value)
- Shops get new stuff every day but they keep the stuff you sold them forever (note: In DD I sell all weapons in the armor shop and all armors in the weapon shop just to see which items are new.)
- A rather dark setting in general but you often find some funny things. Well, if you think this is fun, silly or dump depends on your sense of humor. Some stuff is nuts.
- Inventory management is a big mess (OK, BG3 is an improvement but it is still annoying)

The differences between DD and Bg3:
- DD had a day/night cycle ( It had no effect on quests but it is nice anyway)
- DD limited resting a bit (you could not click on the bed again, but leaving town or fighting some monsters was enough to rest again. You had to find a bed or carry a bed with you in order to rest)
- DD limited eating a bit (Food could heal you, but you could not eat several pieces of meat in a row. You had to do something else before you could eat again.)
- In DD you could explore almost the whole world from the start. It was easy to run into encounters that are way too difficult. You could not see level or stats of enemies unless you spend points in such a skill.
- Fast travel: DD had teleporters, but you had to find them and you had to find items to activate them. To get the activation items you had to find a person and sometimes do a quest for her. You could also instant travel between two pyramids, but first you had to place the pyramids in those places.
- DD had exp scaling (exp gained from monsters depend on your level)
- In DD every class could learn every ability. You had 3 classes (fighter/rogue/mage, male or female) but the only difference was starting abilities and how stats scale (one point of str gives a bigger damage bonus for fighters than for mages, one point of int gave mages more MP than fighters).
- BG3 has more different ways to solve quests and you have more ways to interact with the environment.
- DD does not start on a beach after your ship crashed.


summary:
Over 20 years Larian stayed true to themselves. They tried to improve what was already good but stuff that used to be bad is still not good.
- They like huge worlds and the stuff you could do and how you could interact with the environment became more and more complex. This is good in principle, but sometimes they overdo it way too much just because they can (barrelmancy, surfaces everywhere and such stuff)
- They hate classes and they think everyone should be able to do everything, at least in principle. For BG3 this is bad because DnD is based on different classes and different classes should feel different. The fact that many homebrew changes to DnD rules are so powerfull and they work for all classes (hight advantage, backstab, everyone can sneak as long as they avoid vision cone, everyone can use every scroll, and so on) reduces the experiance, at least for players who care at least a little bit about DnD.
- A good user interface is not their strong point. The inventory and how you select abilities can be improved.
It is usable and you can play and enjoy the game, but sometimes it can be a big mess.
- I prefer the rest and fast travel system of DD. You could rest often but you had to find a place to rest and travel there. You had to walk to the "waypoints" to use them and you had to find an item to use them ( different items for different teleporters)

I think BG3 will be a great game, but some DnD fans will be disappointed by the typical "Larian cheese".
But I like the change to DnD because it limits totally random items and extreme number inflation to some degree. (not so much a problem in DD, but in DOS2 I hated it)

I didn't play much of Divine Divinity but there was something that caught my eye when I first played BG3. The trash piles by the gnoll location look way to similar to the ones you can pick up in Divine Divinity.

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One thing I've noticed is that in Divine Divinity, containers said if they had anything in them or not with just a mouse-over, before you clicked on them. That saved a lot of time, and I kinda miss that quality-of-life feature in BG 3. I also remember that in Divine Divinity, you could rest to restore health and mana for free in a bed, but there was a hidden timer so you could only do it every so often, it wasn't unlimited.

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I will take a shot at this

DD2 was a HIGH fantasy, cartoon like game. People in that game were cartoon and shallow. You started on a beach with a weapon doing 1-4, and 10 armor. And by the end your weapon was doing 1000 to 100,000 per hit and your armor was 8900.
I mean they just lost the scale and any sort of believability . It was common to walk around and talk to a painting or a broom even.

if the entire floor of the map was not ALWAYS on fire, or ICE or Electricity, you were not fighting. It was VERY hard to take that game serious. All the little details after that are irrelevant. Once you start flying 100 feet in the air , in your plus 5000 armor and shooting fire balls out of your bottom while the chicken god you are trying to save is telling jokes, well , it just turns into something else. I understand there is a market for that type of game, and many found it fun, but it does not really compare to BG3.

BG3 is a masterpiece. It puts you in a fantasy world were you can believe it is real, with real people you can relate to and understand, with detailed in depth stories, and even the combat, well finally d and d done right. I have not seen a game that is comparable to BG3 yet, with the STUNNING graphics and real world feeling, A quest you can do 5 different ways and each way alters your entire story, WHAT!? not once but all through out the game? And your comparing that to DD2?

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Originally Posted by Tabuk
BG3 is a masterpiece. It puts you in a fantasy world were you can believe it is real, with real people you can relate to and understand, with detailed in depth stories, and even the combat, well finally d and d done right. I have not seen a game that is comparable to BG3 yet, with the STUNNING graphics and real world feeling, A quest you can do 5 different ways and each way alters your entire story, WHAT!? not once but all through out the game? And your comparing that to DD2?

How could combats not be Immersion breaking when you can super hero jump all the time, when you can dip your Sword on candles and when you can eat apples (pig heads) as a bonus action ?

Combats are full of totally unreal gimmick that always shout at players : this is a video game.

I disagree with the feeling that this world looks real because the sun is always shining, everything is waiting for you, goblins can't find druids even if they're 200m further etc, etc, etc,... but usually it's ""ok""...

The worst about immersion is definitely combats that looks like a gamey and not serious at all parenthesis in a game that is trying to be serious...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 02/04/21 05:42 AM.
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I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...
30 to 40, meeeh, could be a lot better. Not seing much D^D...oh well. Its BG3 so might as well just play it and be done with it.
20 to 30 Ok ok, I like it kind of fun! I loved DOS2, super cool cinematic dialogues look great! I trust Larian will do a great job! Lets all hug each other and be happy people.
10 to 20 OMG BEST RPG GAME IN THE WORLD!!! Im so EXITED !!

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 02/04/21 07:11 AM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...

I'm 52. I like BG3 and I like romance subplots. Guy over the road is younger than me and won't touch any D&D that isn't a board game.


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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...

Speak for yourself and let others speak for themselves.

I'm "40+" and I'm enjoying most of the game.

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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...

I'm 52. I like BG3 and I like romance subplots. Guy over the road is younger than me and won't touch any D&D that isn't a board game.
Same, I'm 47 and I like BG3 just fine. I played BG 1 when it came out and still am OK with BG3. I don't think, it's made for younger ages, it's more personal taste.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...

I'm 52. I like BG3 and I like romance subplots. Guy over the road is younger than me and won't touch any D&D that isn't a board game.
Same, I'm 47 and I like BG3 just fine. I played BG 1 when it came out and still am OK with BG3. I don't think, it's made for younger ages, it's more personal taste.
Just to add to this; suggesting that anyone over 40 wouldn't know what D&D is displays ignorance of the history of the game and gaming community. AD&D, the game that really acted as the catalyst for playing tabletop RPGs, came out in 1977. Before then, RPGs existed but were far less commercially successful. The first home computers were becoming popular about the same time, and RPG adventures were amongst those early computer games ('The Hobbit' came out in 1982 for the ZX Spectrum, and the tenuously D&D-related 'Dungeons & Dragons Computer Fantasy Game' came out on handheld console in 1981).

The furore of the Irving Pulling suicide and related negative publicity surrounding (mainly) AD&D was in the early 1980s. Negative publicity though it may have been, it propelled the game and RPGs into the public spotlight.

I started playing AD&D back in 1979 and I am now older than Vometia. I played pretty much non-stop back then and rarely had trouble finding a group. I have played both BG1 and BG2 (and Icewind Dale), as well as the NWN series.

So no, being over 40 in no way shape or form makes it likely that you have never heard of D&D or the Baldur's Gate series. Sweeping generalisations about age are, like all forms of stereotyping, rarely a helpful way to classify people.

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Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...

I'm 52. I like BG3 and I like romance subplots. Guy over the road is younger than me and won't touch any D&D that isn't a board game.
Same, I'm 47 and I like BG3 just fine. I played BG 1 when it came out and still am OK with BG3. I don't think, it's made for younger ages, it's more personal taste.
Just to add to this; suggesting that anyone over 40 wouldn't know what D&D is displays ignorance of the history of the game and gaming community. AD&D, the game that really acted as the catalyst for playing tabletop RPGs, came out in 1977. Before then, RPGs existed but were far less commercially successful. The first home computers were becoming popular about the same time, and RPG adventures were amongst those early computer games ('The Hobbit' came out in 1982 for the ZX Spectrum, and the tenuously D&D-related 'Dungeons & Dragons Computer Fantasy Game' came out on handheld console in 1981).

The furore of the Irving Pulling suicide and related negative publicity surrounding (mainly) AD&D was in the early 1980s. Negative publicity though it may have been, it propelled the game and RPGs into the public spotlight.

I started playing AD&D back in 1979 and I am now older than Vometia. I played pretty much non-stop back then and rarely had trouble finding a group. I have played both BG1 and BG2 (and Icewind Dale), as well as the NWN series.

So no, being over 40 in no way shape or form makes it likely that you have never heard of D&D or the Baldur's Gate series. Sweeping generalisations about age are, like all forms of stereotyping, rarely a helpful way to classify people.

Pretty sure it was just a poor joke, you can't realistically compile age groups and consider all those people the same. People grow up with different likes and dislikes.

Last edited by fallenj; 02/04/21 02:03 PM.
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I started D&D pen and paper pretty soon too. My first character was an elven bard and she is still around today. I switched to Call of Cthulhu, Vampire, Star Wars and Firefly a few years ago, but still won't say no to a round of D&D. It's my first role-playing love smile


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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...
30 to 40, meeeh, could be a lot better. Not seing much D^D...oh well. Its BG3 so might as well just play it and be done with it.
20 to 30 Ok ok, I like it kind of fun! I loved DOS2, super cool cinematic dialogues look great! I trust Larian will do a great job! Lets all hug each other and be happy people.
10 to 20 OMG BEST RPG GAME IN THE WORLD!!! Im so EXITED !!

Hate to break the news to you, but I am 50 and I like the game just fine. I would also be interested in your "source" for those statistics...

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Pretty sure it was just a poor joke, you can't realistically compile age groups and consider all those people the same. People grow up with different likes and dislikes.

Lol, no it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...
30 to 40, meeeh, could be a lot better. Not seing much D^D...oh well. Its BG3 so might as well just play it and be done with it.
20 to 30 Ok ok, I like it kind of fun! I loved DOS2, super cool cinematic dialogues look great! I trust Larian will do a great job! Lets all hug each other and be happy people.
10 to 20 OMG BEST RPG GAME IN THE WORLD!!! Im so EXITED !!
Speak for yourself. I'm 40 and I've enjoyed BG3.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...
30 to 40, meeeh, could be a lot better. Not seing much D^D...oh well. Its BG3 so might as well just play it and be done with it.
20 to 30 Ok ok, I like it kind of fun! I loved DOS2, super cool cinematic dialogues look great! I trust Larian will do a great job! Lets all hug each other and be happy people.
10 to 20 OMG BEST RPG GAME IN THE WORLD!!! Im so EXITED !!

i chuckled, but i'm betting most people will get very defensive over a comment like this lol. No need to generalize entire groups of people even in jest smile

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