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Originally Posted by Madscientist
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Over 20 years Larian stayed true to themselves. They tried to improve what was already good but stuff that used to be bad is still not good.
- They like huge worlds and the stuff you could do and how you could interact with the environment became more and more complex. This is good in principle, but sometimes they overdo it way too much just because they can (barrelmancy, surfaces everywhere and such stuff)

This is one of the reasons I'm excited for potential of Baldur's Gate 3. I would love to play a game that's a good representation of D&D 5e's ruleset that allows the player to make sandbox/creative choices with the environment.

One of the reasons I'm disappointed is that we we're given explosive cubes right on the Nautiloid and barrels are almost everywhere after. There is a time and a place for the explosive cube/cylinder, but they shouldn't be everywhere in the game. The game would be better with more sand-box choices. Maybe reduce the oil barrels and add more oil flasks on the merchants. Could we push this tree onto the goblins with Thunderwave? Could the player use a strength check to push a boulder down the hill?

TBH I'm a little sad that "shove" is stealing Thunderwave's "thunder". (I'll stop with puns there). Really the players should be hyped to throw enemies off a cliff-face with Thunderwave, not a bonus action.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Originally Posted by Madscientist
summary:
Over 20 years Larian stayed true to themselves. They tried to improve what was already good but stuff that used to be bad is still not good.
- They like huge worlds and the stuff you could do and how you could interact with the environment became more and more complex. This is good in principle, but sometimes they overdo it way too much just because they can (barrelmancy, surfaces everywhere and such stuff)

This is one of the reasons I'm excited for potential of Baldur's Gate 3. I would love to play a game that's a good representation of D&D 5e's ruleset that allows the player to make sandbox/creative choices with the environment.
It's not a good representation of the system yet. Combat is still very remniscent of DOS, classes lack features or have them replaced by something completely different from the tabletop and there is no day/night cycle or a fatigue system.

Last edited by Danielbda; 02/04/21 06:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by fallenj
Pretty sure it was just a poor joke, you can't realistically compile age groups and consider all those people the same. People grow up with different likes and dislikes.

Lol, no it wasn't.

Sounded like sarcastic joke to me, truthfully you wouldn't know if it was or wasn't since you didn't post it.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I think Larian got their demographics right.

IF your 40+ you dislike the game. WTF is BG2 ?! WTF is D^D?! Stupid romance cringy telltales wtf???? Gameplay is sloooww...
30 to 40, meeeh, could be a lot better. Not seing much D^D...oh well. Its BG3 so might as well just play it and be done with it.
20 to 30 Ok ok, I like it kind of fun! I loved DOS2, super cool cinematic dialogues look great! I trust Larian will do a great job! Lets all hug each other and be happy people.
10 to 20 OMG BEST RPG GAME IN THE WORLD!!! Im so EXITED !!

Sorry - I'm in my 60's, was first introduced to D&D back in 1.0, played every gold box game on my first computer, BG 1/2 , IWD 1/2, Ps/T, NwN and so on.

While BG3 still has a ways to go, (and I favor 1.0/2.0) it is still a a terrific rendition of the Forgotten Realms, with solid graphics, a compelling story with numerous ways to resolve every quest and plot point.

Every game I have ever played in beta or EA has problems with mapping, slow frame rate, character movement, class/skill balance and so on.

Condemning BG3 for such issues is Balder(sgate)dash.

Is there room for improvement? yes.

Do I dislike it? No

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Interesting derailing of the conversation by yet another bombastic hot take by mr_planescapist. For all the several people who felt the need to express disagreement with the overgeneralization, the defense of the game was lukewarm. Liking certain parts, enjoying most parts, liking it just fine, only one person went as far as to say he/she enjoyed the game without reservations, this is pretty far from views the most hardcore fans *should* have for a title that is expected to live up to a legendary title. So in essence, as much as we might disagree with ludicrous generalizations even made in jest, mr_planescapist seems to be onto something.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Interesting derailing of the conversation by yet another bombastic hot take by mr_planescapist. For all the several people who felt the need to express disagreement with the overgeneralization, the defense of the game was lukewarm. Liking certain parts, enjoying most parts, liking it just fine, only one person went as far as to say he/she enjoyed the game without reservations, this is pretty far from views the most hardcore fans *should* have for a title that is expected to live up to a legendary title. So in essence, as much as we might disagree with ludicrous generalizations even made in jest, mr_planescapist seems to be onto something.

Perhaps the responses were simply rather measured; in contrast to the remark that prompted them, which consisted of little more than a string of rather unhelpful assertions: as you said yourself, "bombastic", and the sort of contribution I would sooner discourage.

The trouble with writing them off as "lukewarm" is that it creates a bit of a no-win situation where less restrained positivity has frequently led to accusations of fanboyism and the like. Perhaps it is better to not presume an intent that wasn't stated; if people wished to criticise, they would've done. Would it have made any difference if for example I'd commended BG3 for its relative polish and stability having come back from a stint of playing CP77 (which I enjoyed, fwiw, but there were innumerable problems of the sort that I haven't encountered in BG) or would it simply be written off as "well you would say that, wouldn't you?"


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Seraphael
Interesting derailing of the conversation by yet another bombastic hot take by mr_planescapist. For all the several people who felt the need to express disagreement with the overgeneralization, the defense of the game was lukewarm. Liking certain parts, enjoying most parts, liking it just fine, only one person went as far as to say he/she enjoyed the game without reservations, this is pretty far from views the most hardcore fans *should* have for a title that is expected to live up to a legendary title. So in essence, as much as we might disagree with ludicrous generalizations even made in jest, mr_planescapist seems to be onto something.

Perhaps the responses were simply rather measured; in contrast to the remark that prompted them, which consisted of little more than a string of rather unhelpful assertions: as you said yourself, "bombastic", and the sort of contribution I would sooner discourage.

The trouble with writing them off as "lukewarm" is that it creates a bit of a no-win situation where less restrained positivity has frequently led to accusations of fanboyism and the like. Perhaps it is better to not presume an intent that wasn't stated; if people wished to criticise, they would've done. Would it have made any difference if for example I'd commended BG3 for its relative polish and stability having come back from a stint of playing CP77 (which I enjoyed, fwiw, but there were innumerable problems of the sort that I haven't encountered in BG) or would it simply be written off as "well you would say that, wouldn't you?"

Seems to me, you create a situation where one can't make a reasonable observation. I don't think the posters are afraid of being mobbed for stating their honest opinion of the game on the game's own forum. Strong opinions either way are generally welcome as long as they are well-reasoned, and the posters certainly had no qualms about piling on the most vocally harsh critic of the game. For not being well-reasoned, not for love of the game. I could have joined my voice to the choir much in the same *lukewarm* way, if it wasn't for the feeling this would be overly redundant.

My point remains, we are possibly half-way into the Early Access (assuming it will be a year as the previous EAs) with Larian showing little in ways of communicating or addressing strong persistent criticisms. Considering this is a forum for the most ardent fans of Larian, this very measured defense of a game that everyone expects to live up to the classic, is nothing short of remarkable. It should be a point of concern, not a point of obfuscation.

Last edited by Seraphael; 03/04/21 01:16 PM.
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META: All I'll say here is (very measuredly), I get a little worried when I start seeing moderators/admins starting to post as much as I'm starting to see here. It turns the forum into a sanitized space imo with the looming threat of the hammer for venturing into "wrong" topics or being too aggressive. Most of us are mature here, we can simply ignore the obvious trolls and bait comments like the generalized comment mr_planescapist made. With that I step out of meta commentating smile

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Considering this is a forum for the most ardent fans of Larian, this very measured defense of a game that everyone expects to live up to the classic, is nothing short of remarkable. It should be a point of concern, not a point of obfuscation.
Your assumption falls at the first hurdle. This forum is for anyone who has anything constructive to say about the BG3 game. It is most emphatically not for 'the most ardent fans of Larian', as the briefest of trawls through the very many criticisms of Larian in the forums should demonstrate.

Originally Posted by Boblawblah
All I'll say here is (very measuredly), I get a little worried when I start seeing moderators/admins starting to post as much as I'm starting to see here. It turns the forum into a sanitized space imo with the looming threat of the hammer for venturing into "wrong" topics or being too aggressive.
All the Moderators and Admins here started as posters. We have opinions, ideas and things to say, the same as anyone else. Because we have more influence on who posts and what is posted, we rarely get involved in subjective discussion, but that does not mean that we cannot or should not do so.

Providing that posters stay within the forum rules and and are constructive in what they say, nobody is going to be banned for holding a contrary opinion to one of the Mod/Admin team. No topic will be locked because it supports a contrary view, and no post will be deleted that disagrees with an opinion.

What will be discouraged, by suspension, locks and bans if necessary, are posts consisting of unconstructive and repeated moaning, bigotry, insults, jibes, and defamatory content. This is a place to discuss the game in a mature and civilised fashion, and if that is what you are doing then you should have no worries about engaging with the Mod/Admin team in debate.

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