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Nyanko Offline OP
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I find the ability for any character to jump behind their current melee target and get an advantage from it quite ridiculous. It makes min maxing tactical combat a monkey jump fest. Once you are in melee, you shouldn't be able to jump behind adversaries who are already in contact with you. This is stupid and has to go.

It clearly puts me out of the combat immersion, because it's so exploitable to the point of being utterly broken in my opinion.

Last edited by Nyanko; 10/04/21 09:45 PM.
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They are desperately trying to give players ways to actively get advantage to reduce the amount of missing in combat.

But the easy advantage messes up the balance of the D&D combat and magic systems. And I agree the jumping to backstab or disengage (or even climb) is really silly. I'm surprised someone ok'd it for the EA. Imagine how ridiculous the fights would be if the AI was also smart enough to leapfrog over the PC's to backstab them. Any PvP would certainly look like that.

I wish they would make the AI go faster instead of messing with the rules. Missing wouldn't be so frustrating if the AI turns would go faster. And there are much better ways to increase hit rates, if that's even necessary in the end.

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I think the easiest fix would be to turn disengage into an action and have jump cost movement.

You might be interested in checking out some of the mega-threads:

In 5e jumping is quite different
There is a lot of feedback on how backstab impacts the game.

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Not sure we're not going to offense someone but once again : +1

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If you are concerned about exploits and tactical depth of combat, Larian does not seem to designs around balance, which they equate with min-maxing (see 57:35 to 59:11 in this video). If your concern is the aesthetics, well, I'd have preferred a bit more "realism" but I think that Larian's vision of the Forgotten Realms seemingly won't be the classical medieval-renaissance fantastic style, with warriors in heavy armour and rare sources of gunpowder and hand grenades ...

As for Jump used specifically to obtain a Backstab bonus (as opposed to jumping to Disengage), I'm tempted to be cheeky and say "if you don't like it, don't use it". Just walk around the enemy. It may require a bit of practice, to make sure you don't trigger an Opportunity Attack (break out the move in several smaller moves). It also saves you a Bonus Action, which can be pretty useful if you're dual-wielding.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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The whole thing is just ridiculous. No enemy would just stand still as their opponent walks around them and stabs them in the back. It should be more like DND 5th where you can get advantage if you're flanking an opponent already facing an enemy (your ally). At least that would make sense.

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
I find the ability for any character to jump behind their current melee target and get an advantage from it quite ridiculous. It makes min maxing tactical combat a monkey jump fest. Once you are in melee, you shouldn't be able to jump behind adversaries who are already in contact with you. This is stupid and has to go.

It clearly puts me out of the combat immersion, because it's so exploitable to the point of being utterly broken in my opinion.

I will agree, the only class that should get backstab advantage is rogues.

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Nyanko Offline OP
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I know there has been discussions about it already. But it still hasn't been fixed.

How has it even been implemented in the first place? It's against D&D 5 engagement rules. For me this is the one most important combat features that has to go.

This is detrimental to a fun tactical turn based combat experience because I am pretty sure the AI will eventually use it at higher levels of difficulty. And being stupidly cheesed by a game like this is definitely something I don't enjoy personally.

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One trick I have done and it has ensured me victory is pick up a load of oil barrels. You can drop as many items as you wish in combat. I then drop 5 firewine and oil barrels. Misty step out of there and set it on fire. On the one hand it is dumb game mechanics but on the other hand I have not beaten the Minotaurs or Spectator and Drow without this tactic.

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Originally Posted by Jalt
One trick I have done and it has ensured me victory is pick up a load of oil barrels. You can drop as many items as you wish in combat. I then drop 5 firewine and oil barrels. Misty step out of there and set it on fire. On the one hand it is dumb game mechanics but on the other hand I have not beaten the Minotaurs or Spectator and Drow without this tactic.
Yeah the first step in making these cheesy gimmicks at least somewhat tolerable would be to disable magic pockets in combat. Then make the barrels have more realistic volume where they can only be carried/equipped one at a time like weapons, IF you have enough strength to lift a huge barrel full of oil. Then make dropping something cost at least a Bonus Action.

The minotaurs are pretty much an encounter for a level 5 party if you fight them without OP cheese tactics. Pretty telling that you can solo them without any risk if you exploit barrels/invisibility/shoving. But that's not the kind of combat I want to play. I'd rather use class abilities and play D&D.

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I actually like that feature, can be quite useful sometimes

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Originally Posted by Kallark
I actually like that feature, can be quite useful sometimes
Useful/convenient and appropriate are two very different things.

An invulnerability toggle can be incredibly useful. Does it make for a good game mechanic? Hardly.


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Originally Posted by Kallark
I actually like that feature, can be quite useful sometimes

With what others have said. It's a bit too powerful at the moment and is on the long list of things I avoid to make the game feel more like DnD.

Now it would be nice if:

1. Jumping over someone's head was restricted to the monk and acrobat classes

a. it came with nice rolling head over heels animation.

2. They instituted an authentic disengage like Solasta's. Astarian should be able use cunning action -- disengage -- and then sneak attack

I'd even be okay if they gave a difficulty option to replace sneak attack with a 2nd ed backstab but as it is it's so OP that it feels like playing with cheats.

Last edited by KillerRabbit; 11/04/21 08:51 PM. Reason: cnat type
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I agree. Disengagement/acrobatics-like skills have always been designated to the rogue class. Fighters, especially those wearing heavy armor, should only be able to perform this skill at crippling disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
I find the ability for any character to jump behind their current melee target and get an advantage from it quite ridiculous. It makes min maxing tactical combat a monkey jump fest. Once you are in melee, you shouldn't be able to jump behind adversaries who are already in contact with you. This is stupid and has to go.

It clearly puts me out of the combat immersion, because it's so exploitable to the point of being utterly broken in my opinion.


If it's immersion breaking like you say, then don't use it.

In the scenario you described, current melee target, there is no reason for you to use jump/disengage if it breaks your immersion. Just use your move action to move behind your target, making sure not to leave their threat range.

Per the 5e rules the DM is free to award advantage for any situation that they deem appropriate. Our DM, Larian, gives advantage for being behind a target(and attacking from high ground).


In the situation you described you currently have a way to get behind the target without breaking your immersion.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Kallark
I actually like that feature, can be quite useful sometimes

With what others have said. It's a bit too powerful at the moment and is on the long list of things I avoid to make the game feel more like DnD.

Now it would be nice if:

1. Jumping over someone's head was restricted to the monk and acrobat classes

a. it came with nice rolling head over heels animation.

2. They instituted an authentic disengage like Solasta's. Astarian should be able use cunning action -- disengage -- and then sneak attack

I'd even be okay if they gave a difficulty option to replace sneak attack with a 2nd ed backstab but as it is it's so OP that it feels like playing with cheats.

True, you made a good point, but they shouldn’t remove this feature, but restrict to some classes yeah.

I also think they should different difficulty levels, because in my case wasn’t easy at all, I died countless times 😅 so was hard enough

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Originally Posted by Alodar
Per the 5e rules the DM is free to award advantage for any situation that they deem appropriate. Our DM, Larian, gives advantage for being behind a target(and attacking from high ground).

A multi-million dollar company should be able to craft a better turn based combat game than a pretty "attack from behind jump to high ground" romp. Especially since they have well balanced source material that already plays really well.

It's pretty amazing how badly BG3 combat plays, really. It seems like they're so blindly stuck on "misses are bad" and "resting restrictions are bad" that they can't see how the gameplay suffers much more from their changes. Maybe everything is not ideal for whatever "works in a modern videogame", but in this case it's just better to stick with the system you have and make the most of it, rather than make it a worse hybrid version of two different systems.

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Originally Posted by Kallark
True, you made a good point, but they shouldn’t remove this feature, but restrict to some classes yeah.

I also think they should different difficulty levels, because in my case wasn’t easy at all, I died countless times 😅 so was hard enough

smile Two things I found that help with the insanely difficult fights:

Minotaurs -- one is vulnerable to bludgeoning weapons. Drink a strength potion, put away the swords and start bashing.

Beholder -- invisibility potions and wyvern poison. I save the invisibility and wyvern poison for this fight, can't beat it without it which is why I wait until I've beaten the hag.

Or just keep doing what you're doing smile

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+1 to the OP. Yet another instance of Larian cheese, and the inevitable ridiculous arguments of "if you don't like it don't use it." As if the enemy also doesn't use it if I don't use it. And as if the encounter having been balanced for the use of such silly and unrealistic actions will magically change to a different balance if I decide against using the larian cheese.

Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Kallark
I actually like that feature, can be quite useful sometimes
Useful/convenient and appropriate are two very different things.

An invulnerability toggle can be incredibly useful. Does it make for a good game mechanic? Hardly.
Yeah I would love it if, like in the cartoons, when an enemy is chasing me, out of nowhere a huge block of iron will fall out of the sky right on top of my enemy. YEAH!!!! What an awesome useful feature!! That's what Larian should introduce into BG3 next: Call Anvil. You can use it as often as you want, whenever and wherever you want. wink

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Okay but, can i bang the bard?

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