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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta is far from being perfect but Larian should hire Tactical Adventure because they know better how to use/play with/exploit D&D's mechanics.
I would much prefer that Tactical Adventures stays independent and small. Nothing good usually comes of a bigger video game developer buying up a smaller one *cough cough* EA buying Bioware

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta is far from being perfect but Larian should hire Tactical Adventure because they know better how to use/play with/exploit D&D's mechanics.
I would much prefer that Tactical Adventures stays independent and small. Nothing good usually comes of a bigger video game developer buying up a smaller one *cough cough* EA buying Bioware

You're right... maybe Tactical Adventure should hire Larian then ? grin

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Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
It's night and day between the two games... Solasta really proves that staying closer to 5e rules really works. That maybe implementing hundreds of home brew changes to a core game that has over four decades of balancing, improving, and expanding on D&D mechanics to derive at 5e may not be the solution. There's thousands of threads already about how implementing one core change can influence multiple other mechanics in the game .., and create severe balancing issues.
Welcome to the forums! I love your input.

Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
You know you've really messed with balancing issues when you have to implement loaded dice to manipulate computer generated probabilities because your game is so unbalanced.
Seeing two dice changes so soon has me losing faith in the future of the game. If anyone DMs a campaign they can see quickly that fun comes from how everything is designed and presented, not what happened with the dice rolls.

If you add homebrew rules that players get disadvantage from dim light, disadvantage from being on a lower elevation, and players complain about misses... is it the dice? Or is it the homebrew? The fact that Larian chose to change the dice (again) over changing homebrew baffles me.

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Agreed. Give me 5e rules difficulty settings and shut me up. I'm just saying, most of the complaints would go away if they just give us a 5e difficulty setting and allowed us the option of implementing a more strict 5e ruleset. Have your loaded dice and homebrew rules, but please give us the 5e.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
It's night and day between the two games... Solasta really proves that staying closer to 5e rules really works. That maybe implementing hundreds of home brew changes to a core game that has over four decades of balancing, improving, and expanding on D&D mechanics to derive at 5e may not be the solution. There's thousands of threads already about how implementing one core change can influence multiple other mechanics in the game .., and create severe balancing issues.
Welcome to the forums! I love your input.

Originally Posted by ReaLMoisan
You know you've really messed with balancing issues when you have to implement loaded dice to manipulate computer generated probabilities because your game is so unbalanced.
Seeing two dice changes so soon has me losing faith in the future of the game. If anyone DMs a campaign they can see quickly that fun comes from how everything is designed and presented, not what happened with the dice rolls.

If you add homebrew rules that players get disadvantage from dim light, disadvantage from being on a lower elevation, and players complain about misses... is it the dice? Or is it the homebrew? The fact that Larian chose to change the dice (again) over changing homebrew baffles me.

As the number of rng topics shows, people don't like dice rolls. Aside from the XCOM series, how many games are really based largely on RNG?
How many topics have players complained of not hitting multiple times in a row despite the high %? How many complaints have there been about rng in the conversations?
I remember such a large number of topics of this type that it can be considered a real problem for a large number of players.
Homebrew doesnt matter if the player sees the chance of hitting the level of 80-90 + and then misses several times in a row, most likely he will start to get nervous and in the extreme case will uninstall the game and leave negative reviews.
I suspect that getting an easy advantage is just trying to reduce rng as much as possible.

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I see people are still trying to fight for changes. I’ve resigned to the fact that Larian is set in their ways. But I’ll chime in again.

I personally haven’t touched BG3 since the last big patch. I tried messing around with it using mods but the game is becoming annoying. I am now wondering about the longevity of the game.

It’s fun for a couple of play throughs but with each play, you can’t help but see the obvious design problems. The combat system is a major problem but I’m also noticing how grating the group chaining and jumping is on my nerves. It’s like I’m fighting the goblins and the game system.

Simply put, the game is incredibly annoying to play. It’s pretty and has a somewhat decent story but the gameplay is awful. I think people like BG3 in spite of its flaws but those flaws become more and more evident with each play through.

On the opposite side, Solasta didn’t impress me at first with its low budget character graphics and cheaper cinematics. But the game grows on you. The game play flows very smoothly with each action guided by the system. It’s incredibly intuitive.

And it is starting to show more complexity. Tactics isn’t always about high ground or tossing bodies or barrels. It isn’t setting everything on fire. It’s using a variety of spells and counter spells that can change the battlefield. It’s about positioning and moving from one cover to the next and building choke points.

And because the game system works so well, I am becoming more invested in the Solasta world. I am curious where the story will go. And with the ability to build your own dungeons, the game will have longevity.

I have no such feeling for BG3. The only reason I have any investment is due to its connection to D&D and Forgotten Realms which evidence shows to be minor and shallow.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Baldur's Gate 3 would be perfect if its combat system was more true to D&D and if there weren't so many Larianism ON TOP OF a deep and consistent system/setting.

Yes, Solasta prove that D&D mechanics are good in a video game even if Solasta lack of money and WoTC support to create a very popular experience.

But honnestly who really think that Larian changed the system because "it's a video game" ?

They took the horrible dice rolls during dialogs but they screwed the entire combat system because what ? Tactical combats doesn't work in video games but looking at a dice rolling is fun ?

I guess they changed things because they wanted to create a true Larian game "they would like to play" in a D&D setting... Nothing more.

Solasta is far from being perfect but Larian should hire Tactical Adventure because they know better how to use/play with/exploit D&D's mechanics.

If anything, I don't think they "changed" the system because it's a video game. They originally had a system that worked perfectly in DOS2 and people played using these mechanics.

It is more correct to say that they did NOT CHANGE SYSTEM, because it worked for gamers in their previous game. I assume that the BG3 system is mainly complained about by those who are familiar with the DnD.

Those who are not familiar with the DnD complain only about dice and the limited skills, for obvious reasons, but not a word about DnD rules.


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Agreed. Give me 5e rules difficulty settings and shut me up.
Now here's a good point.

I'm tired of posting feedback without hearing any kind of state of development / plans / roadmap / thoughts from Larian. If they could only state that "there will be a D&D RAW game mode" I could just shut up and wait for it.

Are they even reading this forum??

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Agreed. Give me 5e rules difficulty settings and shut me up.
Now here's a good point.

I'm tired of posting feedback without hearing any kind of state of development / plans / roadmap / thoughts from Larian. If they could only state that "there will be a D&D RAW game mode" I could just shut up and wait for it.

Are they even reading this forum??

Maybe they're not sure themselves. Perhaps they're working on it now, but want to make sure they can pull it off successfully before revealing it to the public. Or who knows, maybe they have no intention whatsoever and don't have the heart to tell us.

I for one would love DnD rules. Though I play 5e and love it, I have fun with all the bonus actions they give in BG3. Still, combat encounters feel pretty easy the second time you go through them. It would be nice to have something to up the difficulty. Fewer bonus actions may not seem like much, but they go a long way.

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I have no such feeling for BG3. The only reason I have any investment is due to its connection to D&D and Forgotten Realms which evidence shows to be minor and shallow.

I'm unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms setting. TBH, this is my first experience with it. I don't think it's connection to DnD is shallow at all. There are some key differences that come from it being a single player video game, like having full control over the entire party, and there are home brew rules, but what DnD group doesn't have home brew rules? My group plays with lingering injuries. Larian has extra bonus actions, environmental effects, super jumps, etc. At the core of it all, it still feels like DnD to me.

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Originally Posted by footface
I'm unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms setting. TBH, this is my first experience with it. I don't think it's connection to DnD is shallow at all. There are some key differences that come from it being a single player video game, like having full control over the entire party, and there are home brew rules, but what DnD group doesn't have home brew rules? My group plays with lingering injuries. Larian has extra bonus actions, environmental effects, super jumps, etc. At the core of it all, it still feels like DnD to me.

Sure there’s homebrew. But if I had a DM who homebrewed as much as Larian did for 5e at the table, I’d leave. This isn’t core 5e with homebrew. It’s core DOS with 5e mods.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by footface
I'm unfamiliar with the Forgotten Realms setting. TBH, this is my first experience with it. I don't think it's connection to DnD is shallow at all. There are some key differences that come from it being a single player video game, like having full control over the entire party, and there are home brew rules, but what DnD group doesn't have home brew rules? My group plays with lingering injuries. Larian has extra bonus actions, environmental effects, super jumps, etc. At the core of it all, it still feels like DnD to me.

Sure there’s homebrew. But if I had a DM who homebrewed as much as Larian did for 5e at the table, I’d leave. This isn’t core 5e with homebrew. It’s core DOS with 5e mods.

I didn't play DOS either, so I can't speak to that. I have to assume that core DOS is a lot like 5e, because BG3's gooey 5e center seems pretty evident to me. D20s affect the same stuff, add your proficiency and ability modifiers. The most radical change I've seen was done to the rogues. No expertise, which is something worth complaining about, but it doesn't ruin the game for me. Thieves gain an additional bonus action, as opposed to the stuff it gets in 5e. No sleight of hand bonus action. Again, worth speaking up about if it bothers you, but for me it's not a deal breaker. What am I missing?

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
As the number of rng topics shows, people don't like dice rolls. Aside from the XCOM series, how many games are really based largely on RNG?
How many topics have players complained of not hitting multiple times in a row despite the high %? How many complaints have there been about rng in the conversations?
I remember such a large number of topics of this type that it can be considered a real problem for a large number of players.
RNG is in may games one way or another. A lot of elements in Doom are based on RNG and RPGs like Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy. D&D rules are different in that they allow the player to fail, there is less safety. I remember a lot of people supporting RNG as well, the issue isn't the dice. The issue is who combat is balanced and how homebrew impacts the game. The more they change the dice, the more obvious it is that other aspects are the issue.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Homebrew doesnt matter if the player sees the chance of hitting the level of 80-90 + and then misses several times in a row, most likely he will start to get nervous and in the extreme case will uninstall the game and leave negative reviews.
I suspect that getting an easy advantage is just trying to reduce rng as much as possible.
This is where comparisons go back to tabletop (closer to rules-as-written) & Solasta. The homebrew does matter, the encounters in Baldur's Gate 3 are lackluster in design, and it would be great if low rolls weren't always represented as misses. Even tabletop D&D starts to become boring when a DM just says "miss", for every roll below the target AC.

Right now Baldur's Gate 3 has avoided playing into the excitement of dice rolls and continues to go that route with each patch. You assert that people in general don't enjoy rolling dice, or random chance. But IRL gambling is a huge industry and people enjoy RNG with reasonable rewards enough to continuously purchase loot crates. Larian has done a poor job representing how exciting dice rolls can be. As of today, they've kept avoiding that as a design choice. (This is no fault of RNG).

If the masses can fall in love with loot crates, they can fall in love with rolling dice in Baldur's Gate 3. Of course, some homebrew would have to be changed/removed for that to happen.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Lol. Join the D&D Works in Solasta Club! 😄

Some of us here are trying so hard to make this point too. The one why Solasta really kills BG3 is that it does 5e right.

That's said, I have learned that part of the issue is that Larian is not just trying to appeal to 5e fans. You have a LOT of people out here who really hate 5e rules and want the game to be more like DOS or even other video games totally unrelated.

But, this game is Forgotten Realms. It was marketed as a 5e game. So, in my opinion, the non-5e people should take more of a back seat. I know that sounds harsh, but making a D&D world game NOT true to D&D is like throwing elements of Star Trek into Star Wars and saying it's okay, they're both Sci Fi. Faerun has ALWAYS been about D&D. So the game should be more true to D&D. It should not be a quasi-D&D kinda like DOS game.

Yep, they want mass appeal. So that is leading towards jack of all trades and master of none.

Have you not noticed a pattern in what they are trying to do? People did not like the dice rolls and hate the RNG. Oh, we will give you loaded dice so you pass the checks way more often despite your characters having poor modifiers or stats.

Oh, we want everyone to hit all the time even at low-level DnD play. We will give everyone ez-pz advantage for both spells (high ground) and melee (backstab) and lower AC across the board so everyone can hit way more often for morale.

Oh, you are not used to resource management and spell slots? No problem. We will make resting unlimited and without restriction so you can have all your spells up all the time and not worry about needing to save them for big battles.



At this point, I am convinced they will introduce a game mode with no dice at all for those that hate any RNG element. And maybe the image and illusion of dice will still be there, but you will pass 100% of non-combat checks.

They are scared to alienate anyone because that is less revenue. It is a lot of people who are interested in this game that only have DOS1 and DOS2 background with no knowledge of 5e mechanics and the training wheels (homebrew and Larian-friendly building) have to be put on so they are more likely to buy and play the game.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Agreed. Give me 5e rules difficulty settings and shut me up. I'm just saying, most of the complaints would go away if they just give us a 5e difficulty setting and allowed us the option of implementing a more strict 5e ruleset. Have your loaded dice and homebrew rules, but please give us the 5e.

Another thing Solasta has even in EA! Sliders and options. Instead, Swen has stated in numerous times very passively about mod support and modders being able to create the game they want. I interpret that in translation as = we are gonna do whatever we want and if you want something else, mod it yourself or wait for a mod support.

Well, why should I (if I am in the minority or not Larian primary concern) have to wait for janky mod support that may or may not crash with every single hotfix or patch done to the game and a stable environment just because I want the game to be more closely aligned with the IP they licensed?


Originally Posted by Rhobar121
As the number of rng topics shows, people don't like dice rolls. Aside from the XCOM series, how many games are really based largely on RNG?
How many topics have players complained of not hitting multiple times in a row despite the high %? How many complaints have there been about rng in the conversations?
I suspect that getting an easy advantage is just trying to reduce rng as much as possible.

That is exactly what it is. Some players do not want RNG-based mechanics, especially off dice rolls that you do not see. I do think and believe if the dice rolls actually showed up in combat (like Solasta) maybe it would be a little easier to stomach for those complainers.

But look at Larian approach to that, loaded dice was prioritized and already implemented during EA (something not rooted in DnD) while the things that this forum has been asking for (removing lame brain high ground and backstab adv.) is untouched.

Do you really think it is any harder to remove that than it is to add a loaded dice system, which was just now updated again in another (on top of other) hotfixes. So how many man-hours and work days were put into loaded dice. Who is getting the priority with their complaints? It has been clear.

Then, look at the fact, and this is HUGE even if it does not appear to be so, that loaded dice is DEFAULT ON. You would think it would be off and you could turn it on. No, it is default on for a specific reason and it is not a coincidence.

If you downloaded the game and did not follow forum activity, you might not even know about the setting for a while. You are just going along thinking you are hitting and maybe lucky and high rolling.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Baldur's Gate 3 would be perfect if its combat system was more true to D&D and if there weren't so many Larianism ON TOP OF a deep and consistent system/setting.

Yes, Solasta prove that D&D mechanics are good in a video game even if Solasta lack of money and WoTC support to create a very popular experience.

But honnestly who really think that Larian changed the system because "it's a video game" ?

They took the horrible dice rolls during dialogs but they screwed the entire combat system because what ? Tactical combats doesn't work in video games but looking at a dice rolling is fun ?

I guess they changed things because they wanted to create a true Larian game "they would like to play" in a D&D setting... Nothing more.

Solasta is far from being perfect but Larian should hire Tactical Adventure because they know better how to use/play with/exploit D&D's mechanics.

If anything, I don't think they "changed" the system because it's a video game. They originally had a system that worked perfectly in DOS2 and people played using these mechanics.

It is more correct to say that they did NOT CHANGE SYSTEM, because it worked for gamers in their previous game. I assume that the BG3 system is mainly complained about by those who are familiar with the DnD.

Those who are not familiar with the DnD complain only about dice and the limited skills, for obvious reasons, but not a word about DnD rules.

How could someone complain about something he doesn't know ?

I saw lots of Larian's fan complaining about the lack of action/turn, the unlimited rests, the RNG, the spellslots/features/rest, the too hard/too easy encounters (balance) and so on...

Lots of those people complain because according to them it's D&D's fault... But if you know the rules enough you realize that a huge part of the issues comes from the implementation of the rules... Not the rules themselves.

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Originally Posted by footface
I didn't play DOS either, so I can't speak to that. I have to assume that core DOS is a lot like 5e, because BG3's gooey 5e center seems pretty evident to me. D20s affect the same stuff, add your proficiency and ability modifiers. The most radical change I've seen was done to the rogues. No expertise, which is something worth complaining about, but it doesn't ruin the game for me. Thieves gain an additional bonus action, as opposed to the stuff it gets in 5e. No sleight of hand bonus action. Again, worth speaking up about if it bothers you, but for me it's not a deal breaker. What am I missing?

Unlimited rest which defeats the point of short and long action resets. Backstab advantage just by attacking from behind. Everyone gets a bonus disengage/jump. Eating food for HP, even during combat. Surface effects for a lot of elemental spells and attacks. Dipping. Height advantage/disadvantage. Mages can learn any spell, including divine clerical spells. Tossing healing potions to heal others and creating a surface that heals. No real reactions as of yet and many are suspicious that we won't get it. There's a lot more but that's just from the top of my head.

You know why all these things are in the game? Because Larian likes extra actions for characters. They like surface effects. They like "cheese" as many have mentioned on this forum. And all this cheese came from DOS. Larian built BG3 on the DOS engine and migrated a bunch of the gameplay. So yeah, you roll d20 and have AC, HP and such that resembles 5e but the actual gameplay is a pale comparison to the tabletop version.

Mind you, no one is asking for a full faithful rendition of tabletop but there's a line where the homebrew overshadows the 5e ruleset as written. That's what is happening in BG3.

Look, you like BG3 as is. That's cool. But please understand that the players that have complaints about this game aren't doing it because they are bored or think the homebrews are minor. We all legitimately would like BG3 to be better and we are arguing that currently with all the Larian homebrew, the game is not as good as it can be.

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@ReaLMoisan nailed it.

I don't know if Larian will be able correct it's problems because it would require loads of humility. They started this project with an attitude that said: "we've been really successful, we understand how make video games fun" and those feelings of pride lead them to start to project with "well, obviously, the tabletop mechanics won't work in video game . . . . so instead "

Meaning the started on the wrong foot. If they were to regain their footing they would to start with "I guess we weren't the experts in D&D. I guess we underestimated how much people liked the tabletop ruleset. So we are . . ." And I haven't seen anything like that level of humility in their interviews.

Larian has lots of strengths but humility is does not seem to be one of them.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
@ReaLMoisan nailed it.

I don't know if Larian will be able correct it's problems because it would require loads of humility. They started this project with an attitude that said: "we've been really successful, we understand how make video games fun" and those feelings of pride lead them to start to project with "well, obviously, the tabletop mechanics won't work in video game . . . . so instead "

Meaning the started on the wrong foot. If they were to regain their footing they would to start with "I guess we weren't the experts in D&D. I guess we underestimated how much people liked the tabletop ruleset. So we are . . ." And I haven't seen anything like that level of humility in their interviews.

Larian has lots of strengths but humility is does not seem to be one of them.

How much invention and brainstorming actually went into faithfully trying to do 5e initially on their engine vs. knowing they were going to splice and dice in order to shift it to DOS as much as possible while creating a mirage of DnD shell?

We will never know. What we do know is the lead game developer said on a video that reactions like Solasta were not viable, Swen has said some DnD 5e mechanics were not viable. Who knows if they did or did not actually try first and what the breaking point was.

We will not because nothing is communicated. Any major issues has been placed as the on-us on modding and modders. What kind of game developer does that and then what was the point of EA if Larian (as they claim) have their own testers and QA.

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Look. There are D&D game that don't have RNG. BG Dark Alliance, for example. They were marketed as hack/slash games.

This was not marketed as a hack/slash D&D game. It was marketed as a Turn Based Close to Tabletop D&D Experience. We are not getting that. End of story.

Don't market it as authentic Tabletop D&D PC game and then not do that.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Look. There are D&D game that don't have RNG. BG Dark Alliance, for example. They were marketed as hack/slash games.

This was not marketed as a hack/slash D&D game. It was marketed as a Turn Based Close to Tabletop D&D Experience. We are not getting that. End of story.

Don't market it as authentic Tabletop D&D PC game and then not do that.

I'm on your side but did they? Their word lawyers did a fine job to leave a lot open for interpretation. Is there a source that says Larian wanted to create an authentic TT RPG?

Again, I'm on your side. I would love BG3 to be more faithful to 5e but I don't remember Larian guaranteeing or even promising such a thing.

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