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BeeBee Offline OP
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Sooo I was doing some video gaming research, as one does on lazy Sundays, and came across the last Final Fantasy (Shadowbringers) and Dragon Age: Inquisition, two beloved franchises played by everyone else in the planet except me who also have
a shitty wizard with a massive secret
as part of the party.

There's Solas, who to me looks like Lex Luthor and Alex Ward had a baby, who is an ancient god in disguise trying to find a way to destroy the world you live in to bring back the age of elves that he personally messed up or some such sympathetic villain nonsense. If you play as a female elf, he can even fall in love with you and will tell you that he loves you before cutting your arm, lovely man all around.

Then there's FF-SB's Emmet-Selch who is basically Solas but with better hair and boots, whose plan is basically the same -- torn down the current world, bring back the old, yadda yadda yadda. He won't romance anyone, but will be Very Happy To See You whenever you walk in.

Anyway -- my question is... do you think that Larian is playing with the player's expectations of "shitty wizard in the party" regarding Gale? Are we supposed to suspect him because his predecessors in similar RPGs
are well-mannered destroyers of worlds,
and are these expectations going to get subverted later?

My go-tos when I started playing BG3 were literary, so I placed him more between Rincewind and Raistlin than
Emet-Selch and Elf Luthor
(so more a talented loser with a crush and a debilitating orb than
a demi-god figure
), but what do you think?

Last edited by BeeBee; 20/04/21 04:09 PM.
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Shitty wizard is a trope in any Dragon Age game. You always have one mage with their own agenda, which can end not so well for you, but Solas takes the cake here. I wasn't surprised though, he was a racist, mysogenic guy right from the start, so his plan does kind of make sense from his warped perspective. And he cuts off your arm to save your life, there was no other way. I don't like this character, but I felt it right to mention, that he did some things to actually help (after having caused most of the problems though).

I think, it's entirely possible, that Gale turns out to be a shitty wizard as well. It could be tied to a story event and how you decide, if he might betray you or not. Or he might find Mystras favor again and gets power-hungry. Tbh, I wouldn't mind, if they'd go down that route, it would be an interesting development for Gale.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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I for one am looking forward to crushing Gale is it means saving the world. But then again, I’d toss every current companion off a cliff right now without shedding a single tear.

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I wouldn't give a second thought to killing Gale, would probably enjoy it as much as killing Koth in SWTOR.

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Yes, but is there a chance that BG3 knows and expects this expectation -- which I'm sure has its own trope in TVTropes and then goes the other way, as in "look, Gale was never a super-powerful demi-god, just a talented dude who spent too much time in the alchemy lab inhaling hallucinogenic fumes, imagined a tryst with Mystra and ended up with a Rincewindnesque black hole of doom in his chest. Now, however, with the tadpole... he might become that and more."

I mean... with the exception of Shadowheart (and only because we don't know anything / she doesn't remember) isn't that the baseline of all the other companions? Wyll was eager but average before his pact, Lae'Zel wants to prove herself but has never done anything worthy yet, and Astarion, well, he was a disaster elf long before he became a vampire spawn. That's part of the fun of interacting with these lovable idiots. If Gale turned out to secretly be a megagod of magic with a super-smart and thoughtful agenda... a part of me would die. BUT I wouldn't say that it wasn't foreshadowed, it's basically a scéne-à-faire for the genre at this point.

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Eh. Don’t matter what he is. I just need a small excuse to go murder hobo on him.

He’s a megalomaniac? Good, time to die. He’s a poser? Eh, just as good. He’s been lying to us the whole time.



Just a random thought. I really don’t understand this trend of subverting expectations. It’s so cliche now.

You don’t have to subvert to make a story interesting. In fact I say it’s a crutch. People who read Tolkien knew how the movies would end but the trilogy was awesome. Why? It’s just a great cool story. Doesn’t matter if we knew the good guys were going to win.

Did I ever think Luke was ever going to die in Star Wars? No. It’s a hero’s journey and I looked forward to how it would end. A good story shouldn’t be about tricking people. It’s about execution.

Something M. Night Shamalan forgot after a few movies. Anyways end of random thought.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 19/04/21 11:20 PM.
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I actually hope Gale is what he says he is. I think it would be a good story. Both ways he dies but if executed well, it’d be memorable.

If he’s power hungry, he goes nuts and the party has to put him down in an epic battle.

If he realizes he’s too dangerous, he sacrifices himself to save the group. Group will die unless he uses his power to blow up and destroy whatever foe they are facing. Kinda his Gandalf on the bridge moment. He dies but dies a hero.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I actually hope Gale is what he says he is. I think it would be a good story. Both ways he dies but if executed well, it’d be memorable.

If he’s power hungry, he goes nuts and the party has to put him down in an epic battle.

If he realizes he’s too dangerous, he sacrifices himself to save the group. Group will die unless he uses his power to blow up and destroy whatever foe they are facing. Kinda his Gandalf on the bridge moment. He dies but dies a hero.

But... Gandalf didn't die on that bridge -- he actually became even more powerful than before, came back with eagles, riding a cool horse, got a haircut and a brazilian straightening, changed the batteries on his staff...

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Originally Posted by BeeBee
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I actually hope Gale is what he says he is. I think it would be a good story. Both ways he dies but if executed well, it’d be memorable.

If he’s power hungry, he goes nuts and the party has to put him down in an epic battle.

If he realizes he’s too dangerous, he sacrifices himself to save the group. Group will die unless he uses his power to blow up and destroy whatever foe they are facing. Kinda his Gandalf on the bridge moment. He dies but dies a hero.

But... Gandalf didn't die on that bridge -- he actually became even more powerful than before, came back with eagles, riding a cool horse, got a haircut and a brazilian straightening, changed the batteries on his staff...

Well Gale ain’t no Gandalf so he stays dead. smile

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Or he will turn into Gale the Yellow YOLO

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I, er... I like Gale? I find him the most reasonable of our companions, upfront about the fact that he has things he's not ready to share, and honest about his reservations in that regard, quite willing to admit when something is beyond him, or he doesn't know or understand something, but always eager to share general knowledge and educate where he can, and generally with far less snark or vaunted superiority than pretty much anyone else exhibits. His very first meeting is a bit down-talking, but that's basically the only time he's ever like that. I find him to be the nicest companion out of all of our options, and the most genuinely good person out of all of them as well.

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Given the number of messing around runs I've done. I usually bypass Gale or other companions, if the goal is not not include them.
They all magically know/complain about things you do, even if they are in camp. - Something that honestly annoys me to no end. If companion A who's with Custom B can't see to complain... how does companion C and D who isn't even in the party at the moment get a chance to dislike a thing?

As for the spoilers to other games you've posted (very bad form, I may add) ... it is an earned trope that Wizards, Rogues and Warlocks can't be trusted. Ever. Exceptions exist, obviously. But when the %percent chance is above 60; you come to expect it.

My two main current planned games for version 1 (release) ... I will likely drag Gale along purely because I'll need a wizard. It will greatly depend on what we've been told, are the missing "good" companions, will be in terms of race and class.
The most likely outcome will be the flat out murder of Gale, pushed into a river... and his very rare loot kept for other uses. The plot attached to him can deal with the local area... I don't intend to remain either way.

and if he's in my party. I do not look forward to having to deal with what has been currently portrayed as a drug addict. I don't suffer them in real life. It will be annoying to deal with in game.

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I dunno ... i liked Solas. O_o
Finaly some character that is loyal to his own goals and dont change his believes just bcs "players would not like it". :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Lethan
As for the spoilers to other games you've posted (very bad form, I may add) ...

You are absolutely right -- I assumed that everyone had played them and knew the twists, as they are not precisely new, and you know what happens when one assumes things -- OP edited for spoilers. Sorry about that!



Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I dunno ... i liked
Solas.
O_o
Finaly some character that is loyal to his own goals and dont change his believes just bcs "players would not like it". :-/

Oh, I loved him! Love those morally compromised characters with the mind of a determinator, they are fantastic and really interesting; I wasn't talking in terms of "like" or "dislike" though but of whether Larian is expecting most players to come to BG3 with those expectations about Gale too, and if that collective expectation is going to affect how his storyline goes. This is a purely narrative discussion. ;-)

A bit like the Insidious franchise did with the ads for the first movie, playing with our expectations of haunted houses
("it's not the house that is haunted")

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After a certain number of years a game has been out, you can't really complain about spoilers.

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Seriously, though. Don't spoil things. Some things have been out for ages, but not all of us have had the opportunity to watch or play everything that we want to. Bruce Willis was dead the whole time.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
After a certain number of years a game has been out, you can't really complain about spoilers.

Going to have to agree with this. At some point, it isn’t a spoiler.

Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker’s father.
Rosebud is a sled.

Last edited by spectralhunter; 20/04/21 06:04 PM.
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I'm a weirdo in that spoilers really do not affect my enjoyment of something so I usually have the problem of spoiling something myself... That said, I actually liked the guy everyone is talking about here, even before his reveal as a not so good guy. To me everything made sense and aligned up with what I knew about the character. However, there is that trend that the mage companion in a game is going to turn out to be evil or hard to work with. For 3example, a character from the same franchise that makes me want to tear out my hair cause he forces the player into a position where the player has no way to change the events even though they really could have done so by warning the right people or directly stopping them. And while the one everyone else is talking about has a logical through line, this dude really through all logic out of his planning, and I guess that makes sense but it was done poorly imo.
ANDERSSSSSSSSS! (+vengeance)

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I don't think Gale is hiding any big secrets beyond the ones we already know about, but I do think there's a darker side to him, one that isn't as obvious as that of our other companions. Which may make him even more dangerous. I've already bailed on his romance because he did something I couldn't stomach; been burned too many times by BioWare to offer a sketchy mage a second chance in that department. suspicion


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