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#770353 19/04/21 05:26 PM
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I've been playing around with a moon druid and comparing it to the 5e version. The polar bear is weird. I get it if they want to nerf the wildshape, as the brown bear is pretty powerful at level 2, but a polar bear? Why not a black bear? Druids can only turn into animals they've seen. I think Tav is more likely to have seen a black bear than a polar bear. Aesthetically, the polar bear seems out of place in the green forests in act 1.

Wildshape itself is also wrong. I read somewhere that Sven said he thinks you should be able to wildshape into one form while in another. Hard agree. You should be able to do that. Take a look at the core rules regarding druids. The official rules of wildshape in the PHB say that druids retain their race and class abilities in their animal form. I should be able to wildshape into one animal while wildshaped as another. They can't cast spells in wildshape, but they can maintain concentration AND use actions related to their spells. I should be able to reapply heat metal or move my moon beam while in wildshape form. None of these things can be done in Baldur's Gate 3.

The fact that Sven said that he wants druids to be able to wildshape while in animal form is good. Perhaps they're working on implementing it. Go the extra step, and add in all the other stuff.

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I agree completely and go a step farther to say that moon druid is hot garbage compared to land druid in this game given how crap the animal forms are.

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Originally Posted by Ankou
I agree completely and go a step farther to say that moon druid is hot garbage compared to land druid in this game given how crap the animal forms are.

Wow, I don't know what game you've been playing, but I've personally been enjoying the heck out of my Tiefling Druid and all of the animal forms. I will probably stick with Druid for the full release just because it's so much fun, and we don't (yet) have a Druid companion for the same class experience.

If anything needs nerfing, it might be Raven Form. Being able to fly in over a long distance, peck at the enemies' eyes to my heart's content, and fly multiple leaps out of enemy's reach and hide, then rinse repeat, feels like I've got a Raven "I win" button.

Also, they're still working on the game, and the whole Druid class has only been out for a couple of months with Patch 4. I'm sure they are still tweaking things and everything will likely look different at release. We've got to remember that nothing is set in stone right now.

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Can land druid also turn into a raven? If so, why isn't the moon druid trash since it has lesser spellcasting ability and land druid has just about equal shapeshifting? If you said polar bear was great (it isn't) then that would be a reason to disagree. I'm also not sure what you said is even possible. Both jumping (flying) and hide are bonus actions, so you're using 3 bonus actions in one attacking round? Regardless, it's irrelevant since, as I said before, land druid can do it too. There's no point to moon druid.

Last edited by Ankou; 19/04/21 11:39 PM.
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Land druid can't turn into a Raven, I don't think. Plus, jump is weird with flying creatures. So long as you have 1/4 movement remaining after the jump, then your jump doesn't cost a bonus action. I think. I can't open my game ATM to test it.

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I'll take your word for it with fly. As to raven, I know for a fact land druid can turn into one.

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My bad.

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Are you sure? I've not played a land druid, but my sources say it's moon druid only.

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Actually you're right. My bad. Still, I don't think Raven is that good. You can teleport with the badger across chasms so it really just gives you a little extra utility for not a lot in return. The bear is of course terrible. With the wolf and the giant spider you're pretty much set, and Land should not have either of those and bear should be able to attack twice.

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The Bear is not even the best DPS shape. The wolf is better and has more synergy when you use Exposing Bite, which Land druid somehow gets.

And yes, Land druid has to Wild Shape as a full action but you can easily Wild Shape before combat. There is no reason not to choose Land when you still get access to Misty Step and other spells, spell recovery, and everything else.

Land druid should only have access to the cat of the available shapes. They can add other non-combat wild shapes later. But true enough, Larian probably did not want Land players to miss out on the experience of Wild Shape.

Well, that is kind of the point of choosing a subclass. Sigh.

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Hey man, don't underestimate the power to wild shape on the fly. Some times you gotta wild shape AND bite a mother fucker, and ya gotta do it NOW. Deep Rothe is fun too. And powerful, if you combo it with a melee fighter. There are so many powerful wild shapes. Land druids should get less of them. I don't know about keeping them limited to cats. They should get SOME combat forms, just not as powerful as the moon druid.

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Originally Posted by footface
Land druid can't turn into a Raven, I don't think. Plus, jump is weird with flying creatures. So long as you have 1/4 movement remaining after the jump, then your jump doesn't cost a bonus action. I think. I can't open my game ATM to test it.
There is definitely some sort of bug, same with the raven familiar. Sometimes it doesn't even use any movement when flying.

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Halsin as Brown Bear still has multi-attack and the proper delve on the dmg rolls. The only thing I can see is if Larian will introduce upgraded forms at L5 with multi-attack to keep Druid in-line with Fighter and other melee classes.

Even still, Land should not have access to so many powerful shapes.

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I was playing my wood elf druid last night and a goblin cast sleep on me while in my badger form. I'm pleased to say it didn't work. It seems that racial traits carry over to wild form. Or they made the badger immune to sleep. Hard to tell.

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Am I the only one who finds it stupid that a Badger can "burrow" through solid stone and across chasms, which is essentially a teleport ability like Misty Step?

Why do they bend over backwards and defy all sensibility when adding these teleportation skills to everything imaginable? It's like they're brainstorming for "fun skills" and then there's no filter what actually makes it into the game.

Does everything have to be a meme? Could some of it wait for DOS 3?

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Am I the only one who finds it stupid that a Badger can "burrow" through solid stone and across chasms

No, you're not the only one.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Am I the only one who finds it stupid that a Badger can "burrow" through solid stone and across chasms, which is essentially a teleport ability like Misty Step?

Why do they bend over backwards and defy all sensibility when adding these teleportation skills to everything imaginable? It's like they're brainstorming for "fun skills" and then there's no filter what actually makes it into the game.

Does everything have to be a meme? Could some of it wait for DOS 3?

Movement skills and displacement skills predicated DOS2. Mobility is king, especially with the way Larian builds combat zones that often start with enemies far away and/or on higher terrain.

DOS2 has skills like Teleportation and Netherswap vital. And most people had access to at least one other from a skill tree, e.g. Tactical Retreat, Phoenix Dive, Cloak and Dagger. The ability to quickly close distances or transport yourself instantly is critical in winning Larian combat objectives.

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Originally Posted by gaymer
Movement skills and displacement skills predicated DOS2. Mobility is king, especially with the way Larian builds combat zones that often start with enemies far away and/or on higher terrain.

DOS2 has skills like Teleportation and Netherswap vital. And most people had access to at least one other from a skill tree, e.g. Tactical Retreat, Phoenix Dive, Cloak and Dagger. The ability to quickly close distances or transport yourself instantly is critical in winning Larian combat objectives.

Pretty much. Even Tactician difficulty in DOS2 becomes extremely trivial when you give your entire party access to teleport and nether swap, and 1-2 mobility skills. At that point, the only thing that has a chance of wiping your party are bosses that can do enough damage to one-round a party member, if not your entire party at once. Which happen to be the majority of late game fights.

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Originally Posted by gaymer
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Am I the only one who finds it stupid that a Badger can "burrow" through solid stone and across chasms, which is essentially a teleport ability like Misty Step?

Why do they bend over backwards and defy all sensibility when adding these teleportation skills to everything imaginable? It's like they're brainstorming for "fun skills" and then there's no filter what actually makes it into the game.

Does everything have to be a meme? Could some of it wait for DOS 3?

Movement skills and displacement skills predicated DOS2. Mobility is king, especially with the way Larian builds combat zones that often start with enemies far away and/or on higher terrain.

DOS2 has skills like Teleportation and Netherswap vital. And most people had access to at least one other from a skill tree, e.g. Tactical Retreat, Phoenix Dive, Cloak and Dagger. The ability to quickly close distances or transport yourself instantly is critical in winning Larian combat objectives.
The Druid already has high mobility from the Raven form. Flying places at least makes sense, even if it's overpowered from 5e where you need to be higher level to get a flying form. Point is, they can already fly - why do they need a ridiculous burrow teleport through stone floors too? Probably through water or lava as well.

I get this is the developers schtick. Whatever focus on mobility DOS combat has shouldn't be a factor in BG3. All the mobility they've added or overpowered (like the easy disengages) has made D&D combat worse, not better.

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Originally Posted by footface
The fact that Sven said that he wants druids to be able to wildshape while in animal form is good. Perhaps they're working on implementing it.

The saddest thing is - they already created a "solution" to this, by making turning back a free action. Meaning you could turn into humanoid, cast a spell and turn into a beast in the same turn.
And that's exactly what Sven was talking about, trying to get public to see that Crawford approves of this.

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