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Why didn’t she learn not to end her turn staying on a spiderweb after falling down for the first time?

Last edited by VenusP; 01/05/21 09:14 AM.

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Believe it or not, she doesn't always use web, which can be fatal for you. In some of my walkthroughs, she could not teleport to web, but directly to companion. She could also stay on rock and spit poison. Apparently it all depends on position or random. The first fight with her is very difficult, and even if using all webs, she can still kill half of your party.


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Well yes, she’s tough, no questions here. I’m just confused why did she use spiderwebs two times per fight thus losing 90 hp that is 70 percents of her total hp. Didn’t she learn that the guy in a wanky robe can ignite a spiderweb with pretty much no effort at all? Not a clever behavior if you ask me.


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She can also easily take out two PC's in melee in a single turn if she teleports in melee range. So why doesn't she do this right away?

This is another example why combat in BG3 sucks. It's about gimmicks rather than character builds and abilities.

Larian designs overpowered monsters, and then creates a gimmick you can exploit to win. I really despise this design. And it only works once. Replaying these encounters when you already know the gimmick to beat them is dull. Just like once you figure out how easy and OP "backstabs" and high ground are, you use them every turn all the time.

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Because she's a phase spider with an intelligence of 6! Dumb as a post is working as intended.

"I sees food, I gets close to food, I bites food" probably gives her a headache, too much to ask that she understands why "The food in a skirt burns me! The pale food bites back!"

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I dunno, it seem to me like Larian give us opourtunity to cheese the fight ...
Its up to us, if we right now want to feel strong and heroic ... or if we just want to run through enemies like nuclear warhead. laugh
And i find it fine ... for people who do have some sort of self-moderation. laugh

Originally Posted by Umbra
Because she's a phase spider with an intelligence of 6! Dumb as a post is working as intended.

"I sees food, I gets close to food, I bites food" probably gives her a headache, too much to ask that she understands why "The food in a skirt burns me! The pale food bites back!"
Is she tho?
I mean, if you search that cave, you find few diaries that was written by some spider-cultist (Llolth i believe?) that was dreaming about turning himself into some spider-like monstrocity.
There is even list with some ritual. O_o

Im not quite sure now just from the head if you find some corpse, that points out that s/he was not quite sucesfull ... or if s/he was and s/he is now spider Matriarch. O_o
But im not quite knowledgeable of DnD so im not quite sure how would such ritual work, and if caster's intelligence would really be reduced to only basic reflexes and insticts of regular spider. :-/
Nor if that is case for Phase Spider ... since as far as i know, they arent exactly "natural" in this world.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
She can also easily take out two PC's in melee in a single turn if she teleports in melee range. So why doesn't she do this right away?

This is another example why combat in BG3 sucks. It's about gimmicks rather than character builds and abilities.

Larian designs overpowered monsters, and then creates a gimmick you can exploit to win. I really despise this design. And it only works once. Replaying these encounters when you already know the gimmick to beat them is dull. Just like once you figure out how easy and OP "backstabs" and high ground are, you use them every turn all the time.
I wouldn’t be that harsh, since using an environment in D&D is a very big thing after all. It’s the AI behavior that doesn’t quite fit in. Specifically her decisions to keep distance and use webs as a base for ranged attacks twice made this fight needlessly easy.

I think an intelligence of 6 and a painful experience from falling down should be quite enough for a creature to establish some dependancies and adjust its approach to catching a food. AI must be sophisticated enough to justify the complex environment, otherwise these are indeed a gimmicks.


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Just another example of the game's imbalances. They made her WAY too OP.

Phase spiders should have like 32 HP with AC 13. I'd expect the matriarch to be maybe twice that tough, not 4 times with lots of additional attacks, etc. Just too much. It is one of the most imbalanced fights in the game.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I dunno, it seem to me like Larian give us opourtunity to cheese the fight ...
Its up to us, if we right now want to feel strong and heroic ... or if we just want to run through enemies like nuclear warhead. laugh
And i find it fine ... for people who do have some sort of self-moderation. laugh

Did you try this combat without using the cheeses ?
Honnestly it's a total pain.

It would be so cool if cheese was opportunities.
At the moment it looks more to me like "cheesing D&D" with OP mechanics is always necessary.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 01/05/21 01:41 PM.
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Originally Posted by VenusP
Originally Posted by 1varangian
She can also easily take out two PC's in melee in a single turn if she teleports in melee range. So why doesn't she do this right away?

This is another example why combat in BG3 sucks. It's about gimmicks rather than character builds and abilities.

Larian designs overpowered monsters, and then creates a gimmick you can exploit to win. I really despise this design. And it only works once. Replaying these encounters when you already know the gimmick to beat them is dull. Just like once you figure out how easy and OP "backstabs" and high ground are, you use them every turn all the time.
I wouldn’t be that harsh, since using an environment in D&D is a very big thing after all. It’s the AI behavior that doesn’t quite fit in. Specifically her decisions to keep distance and use webs as a base for ranged attacks twice made this fight needlessly easy.

I think an intelligence of 6 and a painful experience from falling down should be quite enough for a creature to establish some dependancies and adjust its approach to catching a food. AI must be sophisticated enough to justify the complex environment, otherwise these are indeed a gimmicks.
I agree, environment is and should be a thing. But there's a big gap between an interesting tactical use of environment and encounters being designed entirely around one particular environmental gimmick.

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I think the matriarch would be plenty tough with 64 HP and maybe AC 16 with 1 attack and if she didn't suffer fall damage. You shoot her down and she PHASES to another spot as a reaction.

With her 2 additional phase spiders, and her army of babies plus no cheeses, that would be a plenty difficult battle. Larian giving her all those additional crazy attacks and 130 HP and jazz really OPs her in the fight. Then the cheeses are needed.

Same as true for the hag. She's way too OP unless cheeses are employed. Both fights are just way too imbalanced.

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Originally Posted by VenusP
Originally Posted by 1varangian
She can also easily take out two PC's in melee in a single turn if she teleports in melee range. So why doesn't she do this right away?

This is another example why combat in BG3 sucks. It's about gimmicks rather than character builds and abilities.

Larian designs overpowered monsters, and then creates a gimmick you can exploit to win. I really despise this design. And it only works once. Replaying these encounters when you already know the gimmick to beat them is dull. Just like once you figure out how easy and OP "backstabs" and high ground are, you use them every turn all the time.
I wouldn’t be that harsh, since using an environment in D&D is a very big thing after all. It’s the AI behavior that doesn’t quite fit in. Specifically her decisions to keep distance and use webs as a base for ranged attacks twice made this fight needlessly easy.

I think an intelligence of 6 and a painful experience from falling down should be quite enough for a creature to establish some dependancies and adjust its approach to catching a food. AI must be sophisticated enough to justify the complex environment, otherwise these are indeed a gimmicks.
No, using the environment is a big thing in Larian games, not in D&D. You can do it, but combat in D&D does not assume that there are environmental effects. The only exception are lair actions from monsters.

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If we talk about decent AI, every enemy should start using backstab advantage with every melee attack like players do.

Last edited by 1varangian; 01/05/21 02:05 PM.
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No. Those need to be removed. That's the point. They are killing them game with those mechanics. They need to remove the cheeses and make enemies' stats more what they should be to balance the game more.

The problem is they have too many extremes. OP bosses that require homebrew cheese rules just make the game too unpredictable. Either Im totally destroying a boss because I've discovered the cheeses method or the boss is totally destroying me because she's too OP. There's no in between right now.

That's again why we keep pushing for a more strict 5e ruleset. If they just implemented the rules more closely, with maybe a few minor tweaks, the game would be more balanced and they wouldn't need to make it so that the spider matriarch landed on spider webs that you could burn and drop her to the next level down reducing her health buy like 40 HP.

Last edited by GM4Him; 01/05/21 02:18 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
No. Those need to be removed. That's the point. They are killing them game with those mechanics. They need to remove the cheeses and make enemies' stats more what they should be to balance the game more.
Of course the bad rules and cheese should be removed.

If the AI would use them like the players do it would perfectly highlight just how bad the homebrew is and why it needs to be removed.

Enemies actively positioning themselves to backstab and shove PCs off a ledge every turn. Using their invisibility potions to set up one turn party wipes with double surprise rounds. Give them pigs heads and cheese wheels, those are just mundane food items. All of this would be perfectly fair within the combat system but imagine the cry of frustration from players that would follow.

If there ever will be any form of PvP in multiplayer, the cheese simply has to go. All of it. The combat system needs to be solid and fair.

Last edited by 1varangian; 01/05/21 02:44 PM.
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Oh yes, give them all phasing as reaction, that would be total pain to beat.

Originally Posted by 1varangian
Replaying these encounters when you already know the gimmick to beat them is dull.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Though it’s not something new in games, isn’t it? For example with help of Dispel Magic spell you could render some nasty creatures that use magic weapons completely harmless and take your time to beat them to death (BG1). It’s a part of solving the combat puzzle and once solved there’s little left to replay. I’m fine with that you can burn the web and send her down, it’s quite satisfying btw. But after that I expect her to learn and adapt, not to repeat the same mistake that has just broken her quite a few legs.


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Did you try this combat without using the cheeses ?
Honnestly it's a total pain.
I did ... it was fun. smile
I mean ... i wanted hard fight, and i get hard fight, maybe even a little harder then i expected ... when i killed her i had last character standing with few HP left and none spellslots, but it was killable.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 01/05/21 02:56 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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I agree that this fight is very much one of the best currently and I did it once without web cheese (just because there was somehow no opportunity), though I eliminated her offspring prior to fight which is a cheese as well. That fight was ton of fun actually.


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I tried killing her with strict 5e. It was impossible. Up until her and the hag fight, I could beat everything using strict 5e rules, but these 2 boss fights, the bosses are too buffed. They are too extreme.

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By strict 5e rules you mean eliminating advantages from backstab and height and making disengage, shove etc an action? Did you use a mod?


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