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Astarion is a pansexual libertine, what connection do you want? Laezel has a hard time making emotional connections and views people as sex objects. That is part of their character.

Shadowheart you don't even have sex with, she just warms up to you and you share a quiet evening hanging out alone.

In other words, the "sex" scenes are heavily related to revealing the very personalities you are complaining about. This is part of building character connections. In part because some people will bang on the first date and some won't. That connects to their overall story arc and who they are. I think you're ignoring the significance of these scenes rather than them having none.

Last edited by Ankou; 10/05/21 09:40 PM.
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If you're playing with the expectation that the celebration scene will be the end of the 'romances' in the game, then I might agree with you...but...we've a long road to yet to travel

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Exactly. With Laezel for example that will be the arc I'm sure, getting her from being a cold woman who only cares about sex for her own selfish pleasure as opposed to a caring person who begins to warm up to Tav as a person and share an emotional bond. In a funny way, it will be agreeing GM. The arc will be that it's better to have a relationship (and sex) with someone you actually care about.

With SH I expect the opposite sort of arc, where she begins as extremely guarded and finally when she fully trusts you she'll get vulnerable with you physically. In other words, THIS IS CHARACTER BUILDING. It's part of being a round character.

Last edited by Ankou; 10/05/21 09:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I think one of the things BG3 is lacking is that Larian needs to draw players in more and get them to fall in love with the origin characters. We need more comradery. We need to feel more like the part is a group of friends by the time the Celebration event occurs. In order to do that, we need more intimate dialogue between the characters. And I don't mean romantic intimacy. I mean one-on-one dialogues that are more heart-felt and interesting. These need to help the players connect more and care more for the characters.

I agree with this - they definitely need more party banter while exploring! I found a youtube video with about 20 minutes of character party banter all put together - and felt sad because maybe only 10% of that ever triggered in my playthrough. I know it's EA and buggy still, and they do need to work on the conversation/banter triggers, but I LIVE for character banter, character development, and storytelling! Game mechanics, rules and math bore me to tears - give me character conversations any day. smile


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Actually, I find that Astarion is probably the closest one to this currently. I really felt more connected to him after the dialogue about how I would prefer to die and especially after he mentioned how Casador always like to toy with people too. He's probably my favorite origin character just because I like his smart-butt attitude and sense of humor. I do wish he didn't disapprove of every good choice you make, but he is a bit more of an evil character, so I get it.

Astarion is definitely the best developed character so far, and that's mostly due to his utterly brilliant voice actor. Neil Newbon is amazing. smile


Originally Posted by GM4Him
(And I like Lae'zel and would like to know more about her character. I'm telling you. There's more to her.)

She is my second favourite character, and yes she feels under-developed currently. I am truly looking forward to her story arc! I feel that her tightly-held Githyanki ideals and faith in her Queen will be shattered, and I want to see her grow as a person from it.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I even think Lae'zel's romance could be way more interesting. Instead of offering herself to you at the Celebration, I just thought she'd be way more tough to crack. She doesn't like feeling vulnerable, so I would think that she'd be fighting any feelings she might have for the MC. I was thinking it would be far more interesting for her to resist sex with the MC until after her character is broken or something more substantial. Maybe the party visits her creche and learns that they are just going to kill her too and there is no cure. Then everything she has believed in is a lie. Even after that, after she breaks down and shares with the MC her shattered hopes and dreams, then I figured it'd be better if she fought it all the more. Part of her doesn't like being so vulnerable with you, so she resists any deeper connection in spite of her attraction. Little by little, she is whittled down until she can no longer handle it. She THEN loses it and throws herself at you, after she's been thoroughly pushed to the point of breaking.

I mean, it doesn't have to be that, exactly, but something more than just, "You killed goblin leaders. You make me hot. Let's do it." So boring and lame, vulgar and crass and pointless.

I can definitely see what you described as the continuation of her romance, too, but at the same time her behaviour at the party makes sense for who she is at that moment. She's a strongheaded, stubborn Githyanki warrior who has a very direct, physical nature. She tells it like it is. And if she wants you, she'll have you. Vulgar, yes - but that's her, right now, before the rest of the story. She doesn't KNOW yet how to be vulnerable or tender, she sees sex as physical pleasure and that's fine for her at this point in the game.


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even Astarion's could be more enticing. Him just saying, "I mean sex, Darling," is just not sexy. If he was feeling some appetite for such things, why not have a scene at the celebration where it shows you moving off by yourself and Astarion is suddenly there, coming out of the shadows. He then tries to smooth talk you, using wit and flare to try to entice you to do things with him.

Oh yes it's sexy. I mean just listen to him. The way he says "please?" Oh yeah. :P
Vampires have always been sexual beings in books/movies, so for him it makes sense to me. His scene when you find him under the tree is well-rehearsed, and I imagine he's lured many victims to his master this way. But this time, he gets you all to himself, and that has to mean something... and I love the moment of vulnerability you share afterwards. (Him basking in the morning sun, and mentioning his scars.) He is also the only character whose interactions with you change afterwards. ("Hello, lover.") This is why I feel that is only the beginning of his romance story, and I can't wait for more.

Last edited by Alexandrite; 10/05/21 09:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ah whatever. The "romances" as they are called are boring, meaningless, and pointless. They have no purpose.

So like all romances then?

But seriously, going back to your epic fanfiction on Lae'zel. I just feel that you don't really "get" Githyanki, or the Lae'zel character at all.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I even think Lae'zel's romance could be way more interesting. Instead of offering herself to you at the Celebration, I just thought she'd be way more tough to crack. She doesn't like feeling vulnerable, so I would think that she'd be fighting any feelings she might have for the MC. I was thinking it would be far more interesting for her to resist sex with the MC until after her character is broken or something more substantial. Maybe the party visits her creche and learns that they are just going to kill her too and there is no cure. Then everything she has believed in is a lie. Even after that, after she breaks down and shares with the MC her shattered hopes and dreams, then I figured it'd be better if she fought it all the more. Part of her doesn't like being so vulnerable with you, so she resists any deeper connection in spite of her attraction. Little by little, she is whittled down until she can no longer handle it. She THEN loses it and throws herself at you, after she's been thoroughly pushed to the point of breaking.

Githyanki are pragmatists, 1000 years of slavery does that to you. Lae'zel wouldn't see sex as vulnerability, but as taking pleasure that she is entitled to. Do you know Githyanki lay eggs by the way? The Illithids did that to them to make them more efficient slaves. You are viewing her through a very specific subset of Western Myths of Human romantic love, and not seeing who she really is. She isn't human. She would spit on your attempts to weaken her with romantic overtures, and may straight up try to kill you. The problem is that you are suggesting that she not be a Githyanki.

I will leave you - unironically - with one of my favorite quotes on good writing.

“A character’s actions must flow inexorably from his or her established traits.” – Lieutenant Commander Tuvok quoting T’Hain, Vulcan author of The Dictates of Poetics


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Romance can lead to sex, but sex does not mean romance is taking place. Likewise, intimacy does not necessarily mean sex either. Two people can share very tender, open and meaningful moments together without having sex. Sex, when done right, is the ultimate and deepest level of romance and intimacy; becoming as one physically.
This is fascinating escalation indeed ...
It can, it can, it can ... and sudently it just is ... where did those sweet juicy options go? Why did they dissapear so fast?

Dont get me wrong i dont disagree with you, not directly at least ...
But still, you are describig here one of countless permutations as "the one and only". O_o

And lookins aside from that ... lets say i agree with you compeltely.
Lets say that this, what you are describing actualy is "the one and only sex that is done right" ... who said that every sex must be done right? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
This said, most intimacy moments can be played out in a video game without an actual sex scene. It doesn't have to show two people making out, one climbing on the other, clothes being removed, or whatever. As some have stated, this is really hard to do well in a video game anyway. So, you don't need a steamy sex scene in a video game to show vulnerability, etc.
There are two questions i just must ask ...

First of all, why do you even mind?
Ok, so you dont need them ... then just skip and problem is solved, right?
Why does that bother you that in some game is content that you particulary dont want to use? O_o

And second how would you like to tell the story that was told during sex, without the sex scene? O_o
Take Minthara for example, she wanted to use you, control you, "take what is hers" as she say ... she is feme fattale in its purest form ...
But you can persuate her to submit to you instead ... that allone is something that should be for Drow woman so unimaginable so i cant even describe it properly.
Then you can exploit her vulnerability ...

I know its not exactly that "one and only sex that is done right" ... but how would you like to tell this story without the scene? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Again, I thought BG2 did rather well with Jaheira's romance. She expressed her vulnerability through dialogue with the MC. You couldn't even see animations of her face or inflections or anything, but you could feel it in the voice actress' voice. It was in the dialogue itself that you began to feel Jaheira's pain and such. Sure, her romance led up to a moment when you could agree to have sex with her, but there was no need for any kind of graphic representation of it.
More like there was technical limitations that didnt alow it ...
Even her whole body ingame was difficult to distinguish from the match. :-/

The right question is:
Would it benefit from such scene, IF tha scene would like as they do in Baldur's Gate 3?
Rethorical question ... but i say: Yes! Certainly!

Originally Posted by GM4Him
So, I do think that romance scenes in the game would make the game more emotionally stimulating. I think one of the things BG3 is lacking is that Larian needs to draw players in more and get them to fall in love with the origin characters. We need more comradery. We need to feel more like the part is a group of friends by the time the Celebration event occurs. In order to do that, we need more intimate dialogue between the characters. And I don't mean romantic intimacy. I mean one-on-one dialogues that are more heart-felt and interesting. These need to help the players connect more and care more for the characters.
Why this have to be contradiction?
Why cant you have both?

Why our characters can spice their comradery, or celebration events ... with some good time? O_o
Note that i didnt say "Sex" but "good time" since with Shadowheart (for example) you dont get sex ... since it fits her profile. wink

And since im not sure if this sentence survived the purge ... i must repeat: I would really like to see some consequences of *that night* ...
For example, when long rest ... i really want, maybe even demand more sexy ... ehm ... to see my Mage sleeping in Gale's arms, instead of separate mat.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Then, when it comes to romance, we need the player to trigger it so that they can romance whoever they want and not be romanced by the others.
Someone have to do the first step ... why "we" need to be the one? O_o
I for example like it, it makes companions feel more alive, than when they simply "just stand over there in the corner, obediently waiting when Their Majesty Lord PC von Smug will come to propose something". laugh

I would like to have dialogue option to hit on them first tho.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me.
And again ... why?
That awkward situation, when someone missunderstands your signal is cruicial part of life ... and part of true friendship, if they both can get over that.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 10/05/21 11:33 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
And second how would you like to tell the story that was told during sex, without the sex scene? O_o
Take Minthara for example, she wanted to use you, control you, "take what is hers" as she say ... she is feme fattale in its purest form ...
But you can persuate her to submit to you instead ... that allone is something that should be for Drow woman so unimaginable so i cant even describe it properly.
Then you can exploit her vulnerability ...

I know its not exactly that "one and only sex that is done right" ... but how would you like to tell this story without the scene? O_o

Yep, exactly this. Each of the camp scenes reveals something about each character. Shadowheart's hidden sweet personality. Astarion's scars. Gale's acceptance/realisation that there is something to love in the real world, not just his mystical Goddess. Wyll needing a break from Mizora. Lae'zel's pure, primal physicality. Etc. ALL of these are important character moments. They can't, and shouldn't, just be seen through the one prism of "sex is for romantic love only, nothing else counts and/or is wrong." Sex can be many things in a story (and in real life).

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Alright, this is gonna be my final wall of text in this topic. Pinkie-promise.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm sorry, but again, there is romance and then there is sex. Romance can lead to sex, but sex does not mean romance is taking place. Likewise, intimacy does not necessarily mean sex either. Two people can share very tender, open and meaningful moments together without having sex. Sex, when done right, is the ultimate and deepest level of romance and intimacy; becoming as one physically.

Sure. I don't think anybody here is arguing that sex and romance are necessary for each other. Sex can be just sex too (for those who enjoy that sorta thing - and mind you, that falls very much in character for Astarion and Lae'zel, imo). Just as romance without sex is fine (like SH), sex without romance is also fine (like Lae'zel). Whatever makes sense for the character will do, imo. Then if it develops into something else later on (or not), then that's fine and all - but not every romancable humanoid being should be the "let's take this very slow, and then get married and have babies once this is all over"-type - because that would not make sense. At all. Some people are simply not like that.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
So, I do think that romance scenes in the game would make the game more emotionally stimulating. I think one of the things BG3 is lacking is that Larian needs to draw players in more and get them to fall in love with the origin characters. We need more comradery. We need to feel more like the part is a group of friends by the time the Celebration event occurs. In order to do that, we need more intimate dialogue between the characters. And I don't mean romantic intimacy. I mean one-on-one dialogues that are more heart-felt and interesting. These need to help the players connect more and care more for the characters.

You'll get no argument from me here! I absolutely 100% agree that there should be more character-bonding (and not necessarily in romantic ways). :] In both character commentary (monologues), dialogues and group banter.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
But the point is that each character needs to have more that draws you in and makes you like them. Then, when it comes to romance, we need the player to trigger it so that they can romance whoever they want and not be romanced by the others. I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me. Likewise, some have expressed that they don't like Lae'zel and find her repulsive, so I'm sure they don't like her proposition as much as I don't like it. (And I like Lae'zel and would like to know more about her character. I'm telling you. There's more to her.)

I absolutely get your point here, and I feel very much the same on many occasions. Absolutely, one can "just turn the character down" - but that does not "undo" the suggestion and it does leave a rather weird taste in one's mouth. (DA:O severely scarred me for life here - friendzoning Alistair was painful.)

Before I move on to my personal opinion on the matter, I'd like to add: I GET IT - onesided feelings is a rather real and "realistic" problem. It shouldn't be "that much of a deal" to just say "no". But for some people it is awkward, weird and (just like in reality) it simply won't go back to "normal" afterwards. Having even an AI character that you do not deem appropriate for romancing coming on to your PC is difficult and it is not enjoyable. While playing DA:O I 100% envisioned Alistair as some sort of younger brother - and when he REPEATEDLY tried to make advances on my character, then things got so cringy and awkward that I simply couldn't drop the awkward feeling whenever I saw him. Especially not with the responses he gaves (those who knows, they know I guess...)

BUT despite all this - I do NOT agree that the PC should have to make the first move. Because that simply does not make sense for a lot of characters - and I feel like a player shouldn't have to pick options that do not suit their characters just to "open up" the romantic (not to be mistaken for flirty) dialogues. What I would like, ideally, is some sort of friendzoning option similar to that of Leliana (DA:O) - it was simple, perfectly crystal clear what the options meant and it simply "switched" the romance off without actually hurting the NPCs feelings. She simply swapped from romantically interested to friendly interested just by the way you chose your answers and it was VEEEEERRRYYY obvious which ones where the "FRIENDZONE!"-options the first time she started having the first "romantic" conversations with you (which was kind of subtle hinting, but still obvious enough - like seriously whoever wrote the entire thing is a genius). While obviously this is most unrealistic since a real person would A) take the hint and hide their feelings, or B) proceed anyways and follow their feelings - it is still, imo, what grants the best player experience. Because this is one of these things that I think NPCs can do better than real people. Let us "turn off" their romantic interest if it makes the session uncomfortable - at least when we're talking about our companions that will actually stick around for the entire game. Obviously - if some NPCs that will occur once or twice or every now and then gives my character some unwanted attention - then I'll just deal with it. But it is SIGNIFICANTLY harder when it comes to companions that is around pretty much... Always. :|

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Then, as you get more flirty dialogue with the one you are romancing (or more than one if that's your cup of tea), then things lead to more scenes with just the two of you down by the river or whatever sitting and joking and flirting. Then maybe showing a more innocent kiss. Then maybe the next time it is more of the two sharing a glance with one another as they are sitting around the campfire with the rest of the party. The two then slip away one at a time so no one really notices...or maybe they do. Maybe one party member watches one of you go and smiles knowingly to the others. The two romantic individuals find a moment off in the small alcove across the log at camp. One pushes the other up against the wall and they share a bit of passion there. But it is kept brief to indicate it hasn't been taken to THAT level yet. The next time fade to black. All of these things being triggered by the player so that they can take it to the level they want to take it to.

Sure. Those types of romances should definitely be available for those who likes this kind of thing. I mean, like I mentioned before... My characters are usually not very quick at jumping into bed with someone - that would just be out of character for them. So they just either shrug or laugh it off, or some (looking at my rogue character) would probably get offended and proceed the conversation accordingly (probably with a fancy punch). I mean, I am not gonna argue against you on this, because I too felt like it is more than a little out of place (and this is just my opinion, I respect those who think otherwise) that all except SH wants to bed your character during the very same night. :'] Apparently I looked so troubled IRL that my SO actually had to take a look at my screen and ask wtf was going on (and then he just laughed as I explained and said "go with the vampire dude" XD ).

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Then the relationship indicator could change to Lover or something once you have reached the full blown relationship level. If they really wanted to, they could then incorporate jealousy in the party between individuals, like how Aerie and Jaheira were fighting over the MC. I mean, if they did it right, they could really make the romances interesting and more fun and not so much 0 to 60 sex, and it should span out beyond Early Access if necessary. I mean, I get that you have a tadpole in your heads and you might move a bit quicker than a standard relationship, but it shouldn't feel so rushed.

Sure, a better relationship indicator would certainly be welcomed. Jealousy, as long as it makes sense for the characters, could be fine too - and like you said, there certainly would be (or are, rather) potential for great "romances" in BG3. :]

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I even think Lae'zel's romance could be way more interesting. Instead of offering herself to you at the Celebration, I just thought she'd be way more tough to crack. She doesn't like feeling vulnerable, so I would think that she'd be fighting any feelings she might have for the MC. I was thinking it would be far more interesting for her to resist sex with the MC until after her character is broken or something more substantial. Maybe the party visits her creche and learns that they are just going to kill her too and there is no cure. Then everything she has believed in is a lie. Even after that, after she breaks down and shares with the MC her shattered hopes and dreams, then I figured it'd be better if she fought it all the more. Part of her doesn't like being so vulnerable with you, so she resists any deeper connection in spite of her attraction. Little by little, she is whittled down until she can no longer handle it. She THEN loses it and throws herself at you, after she's been thoroughly pushed to the point of breaking.

I mean, it doesn't have to be that, exactly, but something more than just, "You killed goblin leaders. You make me hot. Let's do it." So boring and lame, vulgar and crass and pointless.

Even Astarion's could be more enticing. Him just saying, "I mean sex, Darling," is just not sexy. If he was feeling some appetite for such things, why not have a scene at the celebration where it shows you moving off by yourself and Astarion is suddenly there, coming out of the shadows. He then tries to smooth talk you, using wit and flare to try to entice you to do things with him.

Shoot! Even if Lae'zel did that on Celebration night, that would be better than simply approaching her in the middle of the party and having her say she wants to do things with you. There's no romance in that at all. There's got to be some sort of seduction. Right now it's just uninteresting and like the party members are asking you to go hang out at the mall as opposed to being max level intimate with them.

Regarding Lae'zel - I agree with most people above. Being physical and blunt IS VERY MUCH in character for someone like Lae'zel. If it could develop into something deeper later on is one thing - but as it is right now... She is one of the characters that this behavior really makes sense to.

Regarding Astarion, I don't know... While I do not dismiss your idea as wrong - I feel like both could be equally "true" for his character. He does feel like the type that could try some more... Seductive methods than just "Let's have sex." - but at the same time, regarding the particular circumstances, I felt like it was very "Astarionish" of him to be blunt with a "I am bored and this is awful. Let's ****?". I'll admit though - I do agree, that in general (maybe if he would have been sober ? xd) the scenario you painted would feel more accurate if we assume that he have been used as "bait" or something back in the city... And, imma guess wildly here, having him turn up uninvited with seductive and tempting proposals would prooobably result in him reaching a higher romancing rate. But please, Larian, if you do go with this; make us able to not just verbally deny him, and give us the option to physically decline (like the elbow-scene laugh ). "WTF ARE YOU DOING HERE? *SMACK* "

Finally - I just wanna add that I do agree with you on many points. I am not much for the "quickie" romances that is the result of pure thirst, and I do very much appreciate when things develop more slowly and that it is based on someone actually falling in love with the PC overtime (and vice versa?). My absolute favorite romance ever is Aloth (... Yup, very slow and VERY vague to say the least) and his character was so insanely well written (AND VOICED!!!) that it STILL completely blows my mind every time I think about it - even if he would not have had an actual romance available, he'd still be my favorite companion of all time. Now, granted - most people here have a lot more experience than I when it comes to CRPGs and romance options, but I do have quite a few characters that I remember fondly (some from romance runs, some just in general). My favorite prior to Aloth was Ifan, mostly because he was already from the start so similar to my character (while Aloth was the polar opposite) and Ifan's character just felt right from the beginning (again, in opposing to Aloth where everything developed very slowly with no natural chemistry in the beginning - it just so happened to be that way when the story unfolded laugh ). I would make a list to mention some more of my favorites - but ... I'll just leave you with my top two favorites :]

Last edited by Dez; 11/05/21 11:22 AM. Reason: Grammar. Grammar matters :x
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even Astarion's could be more enticing. Him just saying, "I mean sex, Darling," is just not sexy. If he was feeling some appetite for such things, why not have a scene at the celebration where it shows you moving off by yourself and Astarion is suddenly there, coming out of the shadows. He then tries to smooth talk you, using wit and flare to try to entice you to do things with him.
oh, that would be fine for a sexually inexperienced character. I see it. just a line of choice: - you are tired of the noise. decided to rest alone. and then the scene with Astarion. it doesn't even need to be redone in this case. that would be more enticing.
but I think for him it is - I want sex. more natural. like a vampire. and for what he was in a past life. Casanova and the scum (this is how I see him)
and also Gale. he seems to be the most refined of the whole squad. I would like at least a compliment from him. and not just a story about the Kama Sutra. and his ex

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me.
And again ... why?
That awkward situation, when someone missunderstands your signal is cruicial part of life ... and part of true friendship, if they both can get over that.

It is known all the best friendships are indeed born from bros wanting to make-out with eachother, a couple days after their first meeting. Well not, really.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me.
And again ... why?
That awkward situation, when someone missunderstands your signal is cruicial part of life ... and part of true friendship, if they both can get over that.

It is known all the best friendships are indeed born from bros wanting to make-out with eachother, a couple days after their first meeting. Well not, really.

Irrelevant it's pretty easy to avoid flirtatious dialogue from Wyll. Just don't flirt with him first.

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Originally Posted by Ankou
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me.
And again ... why?
That awkward situation, when someone missunderstands your signal is cruicial part of life ... and part of true friendship, if they both can get over that.

It is known all the best friendships are indeed born from bros wanting to make-out with eachother, a couple days after their first meeting. Well not, really.

Irrelevant it's pretty easy to avoid flirtatious dialogue from Wyll. Just don't flirt with him first.

The issue a lot of people seem to be having is that they haven't been the one to start any flirting dialogue, but they then get propositioned for Sex at the post Goblin/Tiefling slaying party. This makes the sex scene feel more like titillation and less like an extension of the character progression and plot.

Though for me I exclusively go for Astarion and Gale since they are the guys I like most so I don't feel much of an issue cause they feel a bit more in line with the characters. Astarion legitimately has the most depth to me oddly enough even though on the surface he seems just like a vampire who enjoys being able to succ blood in the daylight. But both Astarion and Gale proposition me first, regardless if I engaged with Mirror Image flirting or offering to let Astarion get a nibble again.

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Wow. Bombarded. I don't even know where to start so I guess I'll just start here:

I understand Gith. I do. I just think Lae'zel is not the typical Gith. That said, I have even said at various points that I totally see her being as she is on Celebration Night. My entire point was missed. My idea was more of an example. I wasnt thinking Larian was going to actually take my idea and use it. The point was I would like SOME sort of more interesting romance.

One point I was trying to make is that the romances all happen all at once. Just bam. All at once. It is very out of nowhere.
EVERYONE suddenly wants to have sex on the same night out of the blue. Like I said, its like picking out groceries instead of romance. The game even asks you who you pick to sleep with that night. But I guess it shouldn't surprise me. It's very much like the Bachelor and that's a popular series. Everyone wants to sleep with the MC and he/she gets to pick.

But whatever. I don't think I care anymore.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Wow. Bombarded. I don't even know where to start so I guess I'll just start here:

I understand Gith. I do. I just think Lae'zel is not the typical Gith. That said, I have even said at various points that I totally see her being as she is on Celebration Night. My entire point was missed. My idea was more of an example. I wasnt thinking Larian was going to actually take my idea and use it. The point was I would like SOME sort of more interesting romance.

One point I was trying to make is that the romances all happen all at once. Just bam. All at once. It is very out of nowhere.
EVERYONE suddenly wants to have sex on the same night out of the blue. Like I said, its like picking out groceries instead of romance. The game even asks you who you pick to sleep with that night. But I guess it shouldn't surprise me. It's very much like the Bachelor and that's a popular series. Everyone wants to sleep with the MC and he/she gets to pick.

But whatever. I don't think I care anymore.

Honestly, I agree with you that it is a bit contrived that it is all on the same night. Its why SH stands out even to those who want sexual content. It might be a product of the limited design space to show off romance right now, but they all would benefit from having different progressions. Astarion might pick a party or he might pick a particular dark and romantic night for example, the second even when keeping everything else the same, spaces his away from the others and makes it stand out with setting and timing.

By having everything happen at the same time at the same place for the same reasons, it does make it considerably less romantic, even for the ones that are meant to be more romantic, or at the very least seductive.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 11/05/21 03:21 AM.
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Also, you know, it's pretty unfair of the game to present you with a bullet point list at your bed roll, for 'who do you want to pick' and you might have four or even five options.... and yet there's no "Invite both X and Y" option anywhere... This is supposed to be a party, after all...

(Note: said at least partially in jest; I absolutely do want poly conversation options eventually, somewhere in the game, but I agree that the way it's handled right now is pretty tacky and forced in the everyone-at-once-right-now set up)

Last edited by Niara; 11/05/21 03:22 AM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
Also, you know, it's pretty unfair of the game to present you with a bullet point list at your bed roll, for 'who do you want to pick' and you might have four or even five options.... and yet there's no "Invite both X and Y" option anywhere... This is supposed to be a party, after all...

(Note: said at least partially in jest; I absolutely do want poly conversation options eventually, somewhere in the game, but I agree that the way it's handled right now is pretty tacky and forced in the everyone-at-once-right-now set up)

I think it would depend on the character.
Dragon Age 2 had a poly/open sex scene with one of the companions where they invited a companion from the previous game who was very... open with their sexuality, but it made absolute sense for those characters to be in that scene. I would not want to see the fallout that would be inviting Shadowheart AND Laezel to bed... Though weirdly, I feel like Gale and Astarion could actually get along, but I have no evidence to back that up...

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Originally Posted by Niara
Also, you know, it's pretty unfair of the game to present you with a bullet point list at your bed roll, for 'who do you want to pick' and you might have four or even five options.... and yet there's no "Invite both X and Y" option anywhere... This is supposed to be a party, after all...

(Note: said at least partially in jest; I absolutely do want poly conversation options eventually, somewhere in the game, but I agree that the way it's handled right now is pretty tacky and forced in the everyone-at-once-right-now set up)
Similarly, being able to "romance" multiple companions (either sequentially or simultaneously) over the course of the game could add some interesting dynamics. One of my problems with the party is that companions get so snarky if you choose someone else, but since they've all decided to proposition me at the same time, my only other option to choosing one of them is to choose none of them.

I am assuming (hoping) that the romance is spread out further over the game, so then companions can be given more in-depth reactions to you sleeping with other companions/NPCs, and romances could be affected by your other romance choices. Some companions (Astarion and Lae'zel) probably wouldn't care, as long as you are also are sleeping with them. Shadowheart would say that you can do whatever you want, but secretly be hurt. Etc.

DAO had something like this iirc, where companions you were trying to woo would remark on your existing relationships with other companions, and eventually force a choice. Those were interesting conversations to try to navigate without everything blowing up :P

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Originally Posted by Niara
Also, you know, it's pretty unfair of the game to present you with a bullet point list at your bed roll, for 'who do you want to pick' and you might have four or even five options.... and yet there's no "Invite both X and Y" option anywhere...
(Note: said at least partially in jest; I absolutely do want poly conversation options eventually, somewhere in the game, but I agree that the way it's handled right now is pretty tacky and forced in the everyone-at-once-right-now set up)
Originally Posted by Sozz
Originally Posted by Atlus
When I think of playersexual, I view it as the player and companions having a push-pull where I’m becoming more non-player character sexual and they more playersexual. By this I mean I have my preferences as well but it’s about my character’s relationship with his companions and if I feel like the characters make sense, I’ll follow the storyline. Sometimes it leads to romance (In DA:O: my character went from being challenged by morrigan to falling in love with her organically.) Sometimes it doesn’t work out and that’s okay.
This is the most coherent case for the herosexual dynamic I've seen made yet, it's what I would expect every character relationship to be like, playersexual or not, platonic or romantic...but it's not what we're getting,

I see herosexual npcs as being a fait accompli, they're designed to sex you, whoever you are, you're given the option of declining. There's no real back and forth, you don't start out in a platonic relationship (Shadowheart maybe?) which progresses through a few stages of compatibility testing that might tip into a romance, it's all about your player, you paid $60 to see romance by-gum, slam the dolls together!
This also means there can be no platonic relationship before a romantic one, because they're prefigured to be your romantic partner, it isn't until you've turned them down that they're set to 'friend', I think this is what people find offensive about how up front everyone's sexuality is, the party camp scenes are like mixers, everybody's fair game because that's what they're there to be, unlike in what I would consider a better scenario where that would come out of that back and forth, like in your examples.

Because I've seen threads on this, let me be clear, I have no problem with our characters indulging in a bit of casual 'relations', it just made the above all the more apparent when in one night everyone makes a pass at you like you're the Queen of Sheba selecting her harem for that night.

Originally Posted by Sozz
Originally Posted by Atlus
When I think of playersexual, I view it as the player and companions having a push-pull where I’m becoming more non-player character sexual and they more playersexual...
you don't start out in a platonic relationship...which progresses through a few stages of compatibility testing that might tip into a romance, it's all about your player... it just made the above all the more apparent when in one night everyone makes a pass at you like you're the Queen of Sheba selecting her harem for that night.

It was this whole point that made me question the direction the story was going in terms of the "romance" plotlines, like Larian wanted to get the sex stuff out of the way quickly in order to prove its there and then start the actual plot afterwards.

Last edited by Sozz; 11/05/21 04:09 AM.
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Originally Posted by Ankou
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't want Wyl hitting on me when I feel more like he's a bro and we should be kicking back and just joking around together as opposed to him wanting to share a bunk with me.
And again ... why?
That awkward situation, when someone missunderstands your signal is cruicial part of life ... and part of true friendship, if they both can get over that.

It is known all the best friendships are indeed born from bros wanting to make-out with eachother, a couple days after their first meeting. Well not, really.

Irrelevant it's pretty easy to avoid flirtatious dialogue from Wyll. Just don't flirt with him first.

There's no avoiding it, only ignoring it. Which is actually extra funny coming from Wyll. Even the dude's backstory is heterosexual, and yet he comes onto a male player character like whatev. Same thing for Gale. But i guess that's just vintage Larian trading sense for gaminess.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Wow. Bombarded. I don't even know where to start so I guess I'll just start here:

I understand Gith. I do. I just think Lae'zel is not the typical Gith. That said, I have even said at various points that I totally see her being as she is on Celebration Night. My entire point was missed. My idea was more of an example. I wasnt thinking Larian was going to actually take my idea and use it. The point was I would like SOME sort of more interesting romance.

One point I was trying to make is that the romances all happen all at once. Just bam. All at once. It is very out of nowhere.
EVERYONE suddenly wants to have sex on the same night out of the blue. Like I said, its like picking out groceries instead of romance. The game even asks you who you pick to sleep with that night. But I guess it shouldn't surprise me. It's very much like the Bachelor and that's a popular series. Everyone wants to sleep with the MC and he/she gets to pick.

But whatever. I don't think I care anymore.

Pretty much. Very dating sim, and i'm guessing that's why, at the end of the day, some like it (feeling wanted) and some don't (is wack).

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Originally Posted by Sozz
it just made the above all the more apparent when in one night everyone makes a pass at you like you're the Queen of Sheba selecting her harem for that night.

AHAHAHAH, this is the best thing I've ever read when it comes to summing up the feelings I had for the thiefling celebration. :'D On point, 11/10

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