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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Can you please link us to anything?
Since i have seen this speculation litteraly thousand times around here allready ... but never any source. O_o
And i was unable to find any on my own.

This bit here:
https://larian.com/support/faqs/story-and-lore-information_56

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Originally Posted by Etruscan
Originally Posted by gaymer
The fact that Larian already said the Origin characters you do not take with you after Act 1 will not be playable after you leave for Moonrise (similar to DOS2), also confirms this. Once you depart for Moonrise, you will not return to this area and you will not be able to swap out to unused Origin characters.

Has that been absolutely confirmed?

Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by gaymer
Moonrise, you will not return to this area and you will not be able to swap out to unused Origin characters.
Can you please link us to anything?
Since i have seen this speculation litteraly thousand times around here allready ... but never any source. O_o
And i was unable to find any on my own.

The source is here from the official communication in the FAQ. I am also 100% sure it was also said via early Twitch stream the same thing. It is the final question in the post.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=677277

Is your party permanent or can you change members out throughout the adventure?

Recruited companions will be at camp when not in the adventuring party, and can be swapped in and out at camp. After the first act however you are going to have to commit, also just like in real life.

This is how DOS2 worked, as I pointed out so it is not surprising.

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Just because I do normally pick 3 companions to run with for a playthrough, and stick with them, doesn't mean I want the others to die though. frown It wouldn't even make sense in this setting.
If they just sit in camp, well that's how a lot of other games work. It seems that in the original BG games you had a ton of companions and could swap the party any way you wanted at any time. Just not all were equally well written as some.
I can handle companions going on their own separate quest/mission and meeting up at the end of the game, maybe.

I never played the Divinity series so I don't know how it works there, but I heard the other companions you didn't bring, all died. That SUCKS.

Last edited by Alexandrite; 14/05/21 09:51 AM.
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It does SUCK and the hope is that at some point during production Larian reconsidered the idea. But once again we'll never know until it's too late because, as usual, their communication with the user base is minimal and it borders almost into open disregard/contempt for the fanbase.

It sucks for several reasons.
Because it makes for a stiff and predictable narrative structure they already relied on, because it prevents you from interacting with an EXTENDED party beyond the companions you are explicitly carrying around during exploration (which is another area where the competition found way more elegant solutions, instead: Kingmaker, WoTR, most Bioware games, the Ys series or FF to branch out WRPGs, etc) and it sucks even worse because the decision is also paired with a SMALL default party of four, to begin with, so it would be the "worst of both worlds", really.

Few companions (because, you know, making them "Origin stories" is expensive, like if I actually cared for the feature), all introduced very early in the game without subsequent surprises, no chances to mix and match things later "alternating titular players with benchwarmers" at will and a small party in top of it.

I don't really have a LOT good to say about Dragon Age Inquisition, but at very least they really nailed the structure of making you interact with an extended cast of companions over an extended period of time beyond the ones you were carrying around all the times.
Production value and budget aside it was even better in Pathfinder Kingmaker, that spawned across literal YEARS from your early days as an raggedy adventurer up to being a kingdom ruler, with a cast of 13 companions plus several non-groupable allies and counselors that went all the way through the adventure with you and you learned to know over time, even if you weren't to necessarily include them in your party.

Last edited by Tuco; 14/05/21 11:00 AM.

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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Just because I do normally pick 3 companions to run with for a playthrough, and stick with them, doesn't mean I want the others to die though. frown It wouldn't even make sense in this setting.
If they just sit in camp, well that's how a lot of other games work. It seems that in the original BG games you had a ton of companions and could swap the party any way you wanted at any time. Just not all were equally well written as some.
I can handle companions going on their own separate quest/mission and meeting up at the end of the game, maybe.

I never played the Divinity series so I don't know how it works there, but I heard the other companions you didn't bring, all died. That SUCKS.

Maybe you will run into them later in the story, but it will be like running into an ex-partner. You have both changed so much and invested in a new life that it will just be an awkward conversation. Deep down they will know you rejected them and wonder for the rest of their lives how it was they didn't measure up. Most will end up washed out alcoholics because of this, especially when they find out that you saved (or destroyed) the realms. Forever they will wonder why they weren't good enough.

OR they will end up in service to the absolute and you will have to fight (and kill them).

OR if you join the absolute they will end up in service to the forces of Good and you will have to kill them.

WIN!

Last edited by Blackheifer; 14/05/21 11:06 AM.

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Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Thank you. laugh
Interesting certainly ... but maybe that dont mean they will all die, maybe that only mean that after Act1 everyone will go follow their own goals, and you will have to decide wich one you wish to join. O_o

So ...
If i commit, as Larian say ... for example to help Astarion kill Cazador ...
It kinda makes sence that Wyll, Gale, Shadow, Lae'zel and others ... will have no interest to help us, since they all have their own, much more pressing matters to solve and the only thing that was holding us all together is gone.
I presume, we will still meeting the others when their stories will cross.

True, it kinda diminishing the Custom character involvement, since we will still be only able to see Origin character stories ... but personaly i would probably appreciate it.
I allways said that Dragon Age: Origins would be a much better game (for me at least) if you were presented with 4 unique stories, of 4 unique adventurers (Dwarf, Elf, Human and Mage) ... wich will all started somewhere else, all get through different stories ... and all connect in the end.
It was kinda disapointing for me that after first half-hour that perfect story with different cultures, or social strata(?) ... become just generic "Destroy evil army" thing. frown
I just like campaigns to be more complex, as it was in old Heroes of Might and Magic (3 or 4 i believe?), where you simply covered "their" part of whole story of each race, and when you played throug them all, final battle where they all were together was unlocked.

//Edit:
Maybe ... just maybe ... that would also be the point, where you unlock companions that are not Origin characters as Halsin, or Minthara.
After all, they (at leat right now) dont seem to have anything presing on their hands, so ...

Not sure if i make any sence right now. laugh
- I presume that our Tadpolisation will be resolved by the end of Act 1 ...
- I presume once this problem will be solved, all our companions will head their own way (Kill Cazador, solve Magical abyss in chest, deliver Githyanki toy, go search for Mind Flayer head to cut off, find and resolve fiend contract, go get some revenge, etc. etc.)
- I presume in that same situation, our non-tadpoled companions (so far Halsin and Minthara) have their work done. Shadowcurse will be probably resolved somehow meanwhile or by resolving the Absolute ... and there will be no Absolute to serve.

All im saing is i would no be so sceptic, so far Larian manage to create incredible and quite complex story!

//another Edit:
Also, some companions are standing against each other ...
Perfect example is Shadow and Lae'zel ...
It was datamined that there is suppose some battle to happen, with INCREDIBLY hard persuation roll, that anyway still can be sucesfull (yay savescuming :P ) it would make perfect sence if they will be put against each other in later Acts ...
Either when Lae'zel get mission to bring back that box ... or when Shadow will delivering the box, and meet Lae'zel that was was given the mission to bring it back. laugh
I would just love such situations. :3

Another one i can think off ...
Is Wyll vs. Astarion:
Once again, it was datamined that marks on Astarion's back is some kind of contract between Cazador and some Fiend ... how about if that Fiend is Mizora ... and how about if the only way Wyll could be finaly free would be all Cazador's spawns (aka. every part of the contract) need to be destroyed? :P

Cant figure anything for Gale sadly ... yet. laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 14/05/21 11:40 AM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Maybe you will run into them later in the story, but it will be like running into an ex-partner. You have both changed so much and invested in a new life that it will just be an awkward conversation. Deep down they will know you rejected them and wonder for the rest of their lives how it was they didn't measure up. Most will end up washed out alcoholics because of this, especially when they find out that you saved (or destroyed) the realms. Forever they will wonder why they weren't good enough.

OR they will end up in service to the absolute and you will have to fight (and kill them).

OR if you join the absolute they will end up in service to the forces of Good and you will have to kill them.

WIN!

You are not making me feel better, here!! :P

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Originally Posted by gaymer
Recruited companions will be at camp when not in the adventuring party, and can be swapped in and out at camp. After the first act however you are going to have to commit, also just like in real life.

I hate this obsession with "real life" as if we're all expecting real life logic in our video games. It was the same with "Why are the companions assholes all the time?" So many answers were "Well, if you had a tadpole in your brain, wouldn't you be pissed???" as if that answers the question in a video game setting.

I don't care that it's "realistic" that my companions don't want to sit around at my camp while I'm away adventuring, I want them to be accessible when I want them to be accessible. They're not real people with feelings lol. I get that they're going with a "replay the story to see how it could have been different", but the kind of person that's going to replay the entire game from scratch is generally the same type of person that would replay the game from scratch if they had all characters accessible all the time anyways. You're not going to get most people to replay the game by locking them out of content.

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Well ... you better start learning how to mod the game. smile


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by gaymer
Recruited companions will be at camp when not in the adventuring party, and can be swapped in and out at camp. After the first act however you are going to have to commit, also just like in real life.

I hate this obsession with "real life" as if we're all expecting real life logic in our video games. It was the same with "Why are the companions assholes all the time?" So many answers were "Well, if you had a tadpole in your brain, wouldn't you be pissed???" as if that answers the question in a video game setting.

I don't care that it's "realistic" that my companions don't want to sit around at my camp while I'm away adventuring, I want them to be accessible when I want them to be accessible. They're not real people with feelings lol. I get that they're going with a "replay the story to see how it could have been different", but the kind of person that's going to replay the entire game from scratch is generally the same type of person that would replay the game from scratch if they had all characters accessible all the time anyways. You're not going to get most people to replay the game by locking them out of content.

Because they don't know what's going to happen to them if they don't get their dilemma sorted out? Did I miss an update where the only one that knows about the tadpole, or what it does is the PC?

That said, I'm not a fan of dropping them at the end of the chapter. Although, I'm not sure how I'd write them progressing through whatever they go through to get to the "other side". Maybe an ME Citadel DLC solution, where it's "All hands on deck" thing, at least, that would be the easiest way, although combat would be a total pain to balance/manage. I'm not a fan of "Well, they just hang out in camp, and trust that, despite practically ignoring them for the entire time, we're going to help them too" scenario.

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Knowing Larian, the final boss is a bunch of Mind Flayers and the unchosen companions are all minions in Mind Flayer form of the final boss. Similar to how they did with DOS2.

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oh god, don't say that, i was having a good day lol (just kidding, im still going to have a good day :))

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Might just have been my mind, but I feel like they have foreshadowed that the 'stasis' that the tadpoles are in can be turned off and that the resulting transformation would be pretty much instantaneous. There's the lady in the pod in the opening who transforms instantly at the pull of a switch, and IIRC
Omelum
tells you that if the stasis was removed, the transofrmation would be...rapid.

I'm thinking that before fighting whoever the boss of Moonrise Tower is, we'll have the opportunity to solve our tadpole problem, but that it won't extend to whoever is back at camp, either cause we won't be able to go back and get them, or because the enemy gets to them first. The boss will flip a switch or whatever and turn a bunch of cultists in flayers, but we'll be unaffected....but our other party members, who didn't get an opportunity to get this treatment or whatever, will turn.

Just my little theory. I wonder how the tadpole thing will interact with other story npcs who have them, like Minthara/Mizora/Grand Duke.

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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Might just have been my mind, but I feel like they have foreshadowed that the 'stasis' that the tadpoles are in can be turned off and that the resulting transformation would be pretty much instantaneous. There's the lady in the pod in the opening who transforms instantly at the pull of a switch, and IIRC
Omelum
tells you that if the stasis was removed, the transofrmation would be...rapid.

I'm thinking that before fighting whoever the boss of Moonrise Tower is, we'll have the opportunity to solve our tadpole problem, but that it won't extend to whoever is back at camp, either cause we won't be able to go back and get them, or because the enemy gets to them first. The boss will flip a switch or whatever and turn a bunch of cultists in flayers, but we'll be unaffected....but our other party members, who didn't get an opportunity to get this treatment or whatever, will turn.

Just my little theory. I wonder how the tadpole thing will interact with other story npcs who have them, like Minthara/Mizora/Grand Duke.

What I'm wondering is how is the tadpole going to be this big important feature of the game if you just ignore it and never use it? Will Larian just force you to use it sometimes? Or just make the game harder? I can't see how it's going to be rewarding not to use it. You'll essentially be missing out on a bunch of content.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
What I'm wondering is how is the tadpole going to be this big important feature of the game if you just ignore it and never use it? Will Larian just force you to use it sometimes? Or just make the game harder? I can't see how it's going to be rewarding not to use it. You'll essentially be missing out on a bunch of content.
I mean, I guess the idea is precisely to make its use very convenient/appealing on the short term, but with bad consequences on the long run.
Which would be an appropriate incentive both mechanically and thematically.


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One of the joys of an RPG like this IS interacting with an extended cast of characters. For me, I consider every single companion part of the party and playing an important role. In say Dragon Age, I do switch characters out and work with them. I do eventually fall into my preferred end game party, but that is after interacting with all the companions for hours. BG1 I specifically installed a mod that sent everyone to the Inn and I would switch people out as I saw fit, working through all their companion quests and interacting with them and figuring out which ones I liked to use and didn't like. It was an army of people, but it felt like a guild of characters that would help each other through their issues and all get their problems solved in the end. If they introduce "All the people you don't pick Die, better play multiple times" BS on me, the only mod I will have installed is the one that stops that. I could be fine with the larianisms with combat and things being broken, but murdering off all the characters to limit the player is something I am absolutely not fine with. As I said before, I HATED this in DOS2. And often times it makes little to no sense and just hurts the player. Especially one that likes to experiment, cause they might bench say Wyll before that cut off point cause they wanted to experiment with Laezel. Wyll might be their favorite and they are just experimenting, but now Wyll is dead cause they decided to actually engage with the game and characters instead of just picking three and ignoring the rest. There are two hills I'll die one with this game cause that is where my passions lie, getting the Conjuration Magic right, and letting us actually play with the companions that have been made. If anyone at Larian looks at these forums, please at least consider this. We want to engage with the characters you have written and designed, please let us.

(Edit: Sorry to go on a rant or if this sounds hostile...)

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Originally Posted by The Composer
I think there are some parallels to be drawn with a common critique about World of Warcraft which currently has a level scaling feature so that all enemies are the same level as you, more or less. If you can't grow to out-level and overpower enemies, and go back to reflect on your growth, then growth becomes meaningless. Or at least feels less impactful. So I appreciate the dream of being able to return / travel in reverse in that sense, as it amplifies that RPG sense of growth and progress as a character. That'd be the argument I'd pitch anyway, if I was trying to convince someone.

I'm no fan of level scaling for a variety of reasons, not least because it undermines the need to gear up. You should always feel like your characters are moving forward in terms of their development, that their skills at their chosen profession are becoming more polished. There's a single player game, I can't remember which it is (might be TW3) where fighting under level enemies provides you with little to no XP depending upon how far over level you are. You can do it if you want, but it's a pointless exercise. BG3 could have something similar. Better to have areas you are probably going to struggle with without better gear and experience, just like in real life, than have everything at the same level.

Originally Posted by gaymer
The fact that Larian already said the Origin characters you do not take with you after Act 1 will not be playable after you leave for Moonrise (similar to DOS2), also confirms this. Once you depart for Moonrise, you will not return to this area and you will not be able to swap out to unused Origin characters.

Not at all, it simply means they have their own real lives and are getting on with them, pursuing their own methods of removing the parasite. It wouldn't make the slightest sense for you to travel back to the Dank Crypt only to find Shadow still banging on the door, now would it? Even if it did prove the maps are locked, the entire point of EA is for Larian to listen to feedback. Judging by the feedback in this thread, the idea of self contained maps is an unpopular one, and one they would do well to revise. Of course, that is entirely speculative since we don't know anything for sure right now.

Originally Posted by gaymer
BG3 Act 1 ends the same way the Act 1 of DOS2 ended. Dialogue box, ready check, advertisement.

The fact that Larian already said the Origin characters you do not take with you after Act 1 will not be playable after you leave for Moonrise (similar to DOS2), also confirms this. Once you depart for Moonrise, you will not return to this area and you will not be able to swap out to unused Origin characters.

BG3's Act 1 ends the way it ends because it's early access. We have no idea what is planned at Moonrise tower, or whether it's part of Act 1, Act 2 or some transitionary area between the two. It's simply the end of EA. Correct me if I'm wrong but we also have no idea where in Faerun the first act/prologue/EA takes place. DOS2 was escape from an island, over to the mainland, back to another island, then back up the coast to the mainland. You were crisscrossing water as part of the story which is why it made sense from an immersion perspective to have self contained maps.

BG3 has a very well thought out and immersive fast travel system in magical portals (I never got the whole Statue thing in DOS2) so there should be no reason why you can't fast travel back to a map you have already visited. Plus if you really wanted you could just buy a horse and travel back the way you came, if it's located on the same continent.

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I might be wrong, but the statement saying not take with you made me assume it was like DOS2 where "take with you" meant active member of the party you are controlling at the time, and not meaning having been recruited before and in the camp. If it is is companions I have not recruited before, that makes more sense, they would move on. But if I have recruited them it doesn't make sense because we are pooling our resources and working together.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Everything past the bridge and in the underdark would probably be way more doable at level 5.

Considering you'll usually reach level 4 at the end of the goblins/druid/tiefflins quests, I guess that's how it's designed to be.
But to be honnest I think those encounters will be very easy at level 5^^

This will be hard to manage all along the game but it could become less a problem at higher level.
It will takes way more time to level up so we'll probably clean "a map" map with 2 or 3 levels rather than 5. This, only if they don't increase xp rewards to make us level up faster.

Actually in one playthrough I made lvl 4 before leaving blighted village.... Still had Wetlands, Goblin Camp, Crossing the bridge, Underdark, etc left to do

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Originally Posted by Chief_Jericho
Correct me if I'm wrong but we also have no idea where in Faerun the first act/prologue/EA takes place.

We are in Elturgard. The tieflings in the druid grove are refugees from Elturel journeying by foot to Baldur's Gate. In Zevlor's office at the druid grove he has a map and, if you click on it, one of the companions or your character (I can't remember) will pipe up confirming where we are.

Last edited by Sabra; 16/05/21 01:39 AM.
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