Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Feb 2021
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Feb 2021
+1 Agree with the OP and most people here
Disengage should be it's own separate full-action. At least an option given via a different game mode.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Just another person reminding that goblins have Disengage as a bonus action in 5e, not just in BG3.

Joined: Aug 2016
J
stranger
Offline
stranger
J
Joined: Aug 2016
Originally Posted by Eugerome
Just another person reminding that goblins have Disengage as a bonus action in 5e, not just in BG3.

Yes, Goblins are fine less if they have the bonus action jump.

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by JiruoVX
Originally Posted by Eugerome
Just another person reminding that goblins have Disengage as a bonus action in 5e, not just in BG3.

Yes, Goblins are fine less if they have the bonus action jump.
Goblins having bonus action jump&disengage is practically RAW, as jumping is a free part of movement. The issue here would be if they could use this jump to gain free extra movement, but that would imply a much more intelligent AI than I've seen so far in BG3.

It'd be interesting if Larian implemented the "hide" bonus action for goblins. The game could make the goblins literally invisible/untargetable unless one of the PCs succeeded on their perception check or moved so that the goblin was directly in an unobscured line-of-sight. Of course, the main reason to "hide" is to gain advantage on your attack, which is ~irrelevant with Height/Backstab advantage...

Joined: Aug 2016
J
stranger
Offline
stranger
J
Joined: Aug 2016
I agree jumping should be part of movement. But jumping currently isn't which is a problem.
And jumping gives you far more distance and range then it likely should without high Str/Athletics or spells.

But we both agree jumping shouldn't give you more total distance.

M
Machinus
Unregistered
Machinus
Unregistered
M
The game is still in early access; is it possible that Larian intends to refine the movement and action systems before full release, including making Disengage, Shove, etc. more consistent with 5E? Do we have evidence that this change was deliberate and permanent?

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Machinus
The game is still in early access; is it possible that Larian intends to refine the movement and action systems before full release, including making Disengage, Shove, etc. more consistent with 5E? Do we have evidence that this change was deliberate and permanent?
This decision was definitely deliberate. I don't see how it could have possibly an accident..??

Swen has talked about Shove in an interview and how much he likes it, so it's almost certainly permanent. https://www.destructoid.com/stories...-druids-and-baldur-s-gate-3-624779.phtml
Originally Posted by Interview
"In [interviewer's] own experience, I've been loving the ability to push, shove, and throw things to manipulate the world with my Githyanki Warrior, and those mechanics are something [Swen] says he's happy people are grappling with."

Last edited by mrfuji3; 20/05/21 06:17 PM. Reason: misattributed part of interview quote to Swen
M
Machinus
Unregistered
Machinus
Unregistered
M
I read that interview, but there are other parts of the game that are clearly incomplete and need to be added later. I don't see that it is conclusive that they will not fix the action requirements. Consider the rough state of many other basic features like dual-wielding, long/short rests, and status effects, how they are also still experimenting with the game, i.e. initiative grouping. It could mean they will alter the mechanic later.

Shove and dash are clearly defined in 5E and have requirements based on attributes and actions. I would be surprised if they just ignored all of this in the final version. Giving free auto-succeed abilities out of class eliminates class identity and unbalances the game, so I hope they read these threads.

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Machinus
I read that interview, but there are other parts of the game that are clearly incomplete and need to be added later. I don't see that it is conclusive that they will not fix the action requirements. Consider the rough state of many other basic features like dual-wielding, long/short rests, and status effects, how they are also still experimenting with the game, i.e. initiative grouping. It could mean they will alter the mechanic later.

Shove and dash are clearly defined in 5E and have requirements based on attributes and actions. I would be surprised if they just ignored all of this in the final version. Giving free auto-succeed abilities out of class eliminates class identity and unbalances the game, so I hope they read these threads.
I agree that it isn't conclusive evidence that they won't fix Shove, Jump, etc. I just don't think there's any concrete sign that they will fix them, whereas there are signs that Larian likes things how they are. The most relevant example: bringing Jeremy Crawford onto Panel from Hell 2 for effectively the sole reason of giving WotC's blessing for Larian to make any changes they want to "adapt 5e to a video game".

I hope to be proven wrong here. Hopefully this upcoming community update will directly discuss Larian's homebrew changes, the reason behind them, the feedback they've received, and whether Larian is considering any changes.

Joined: Aug 2014
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Aug 2014
Let's not forget they gave almost every enemy some form of teleport that doesn't trigger aoo's.

What's the point of engaging a minotaur or hook horror in melee if they're all going to jump straight to Gale or wherever they want without drawing an aoo from your fighter?

That combined with the AI that actively avoids targeting high AC targets makes for really dumb combat.

And they actually changed the system to work this way from the default 5e logic where melee and zone of control matter. So they must think this is somehow better. I'm not convinced this is the best developer to be making tactical combat even though mostly everything else is top notch.

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Let's not forget they gave almost every enemy some form of teleport that doesn't trigger aoo's.

What's the point of engaging a minotaur or hook horror in melee if they're all going to jump straight to Gale or wherever they want without drawing an aoo from your fighter?

That combined with the AI that actively avoids targeting high AC targets makes for really dumb combat.

And they actually changed the system to work this way from the default 5e logic where melee and zone of control matter. So they must think this is somehow better. I'm not convinced this is the best developer to be making tactical combat even though mostly everything else is top notch.
This is probably why they changed mirror image to grant +9 AC instead of giving you 3 mirror images (and also made mage armor more powerful). In testing, they found that enemies, with the teleport abilities + AI + various auto-damaging attacks, were always going for and murdering the squishy mages in the back. So Larian decided to change spells so that mages' AC would be increased, preventing the AI from targeting them.

That's the only reason I can think of for this change to mirror image, besides just not wanting to animate it..

Last edited by mrfuji3; 23/05/21 03:35 PM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
OP Online Content
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Almost every ennemies is not really true but yes, ennemies that can teleport means that a bunch of offensive AOO are useless.

And as mrfuji said it probably is another consequence of something. Once again.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/05/21 05:29 PM.
Joined: Aug 2020
stranger
Offline
stranger
Joined: Aug 2020
Moderator note: please don't quote pages of someone else's post just to add +1.

Last edited by vometia; 24/05/21 04:21 AM. Reason: removed excess quoting
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5