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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age as series handled the problem of what companions do when you aren't with them. They occupy their own place in the hub and do what they need to or like to do.

The entire Mass Effect series companions serve a role in your crew:
In ME Tali is presiding over the engine of the ship.
In ME2 Garrus is always calibrating weapons.
In ME3 Liara is ||operating the shadow broker network.||

In DA:O they sit around camp but are relaxing, like Oghren drinks.
In DA2 they actually occupy their homes, like Anders is running a clinic.
In DA:I they all occupy parts of Skyhold and act as your inner circle, like Iron Bull rests in the bar and commands his mercenaries.

Bioware figured out in those games to give companions more natural activities, and they do range from contributing to the group to sitting around and relaxing. So I feel if Larian wanted they could give each companion a camp role or something to do, even if that something is staving their own boredom.

A good option, but this is not the case here. We are nothing to our companions, we are not a commander like Shepard and not an Inquisitor. Theoretically, they have animations and now, Gale and Astarion are reading, Shadow is praying, Lae and Will are drinking. But they have no real reason to just hang around in the camp, this is not the same situation as in Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

I also want to say that in DOS2, the companions did not suddenly fall dead, there was a specific situation which why they died. But I don't like it. It is better to let them leave like Wyll or Gale, so that we will meet them somewhere later, so that their story continues. Thats wut I like.


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I imagine that the ones you don't take to Moonrise are turned into Mindflayers in the interim. As soon as you check in on the camp, the ones remaining just spontaneously turn, just like the people on the nautiloid. Giving us a good fight, a deadly reminder of the risks of not finding a cure, and ensuring the other residents of the camp don't get killed. If fighting mind flayers at this stage is too tough then they just leave. Talking to other NPC's at the camp they explain that they got a weird look in their eyes and just left without warning or notice. They return later in the game as minibosses, completely controlled by the Cult of the Absolute. Either as themselves just as enemy NPCs or as Mindflayers.
Enjoying having a walking nuke formerly known as Gale in your headquarters Octopus brains!
I and my team of morally ambiguous adventurers of me Human Wizard, Astarion, Lae'zel, and Shadowheart shall mourn our lost companions in our hearts.

Last edited by TheAscendent; 03/07/21 11:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by TheAscendent
I imagine that the ones you don't take to Moonrise are turned into Mindflayers in the interim. As soon as you check in on the camp, the ones remaining just spontaneously turn, just like the people on the nautiloid. Giving us a good fight, a deadly reminder of the risks of not finding a cure, and ensuring the other residents of the camp don't get killed. If fighting mind flayers at this stage is too tough then they just leave. Talking to other NPC's at the camp they explain that they got a weird look in their eyes and just left without warning or notice. They return later in the game as minibosses, completely controlled by the Cult of the Absolute. Either as themselves just as enemy NPCs or as Mindflayers.
Enjoying having a walking nuke formerly known as Gale in your headquarters Octopus brains!
I and my team or morally ambiguous team of me Human Wizard, Astarion, Lae'zel, and Shadowheart shall morn our lost companions in our hearts.

The thing is, that is not compelling to me at all. In fact it feels kinda cheap and pointless. And also really highlights the issue of unjustified things like small party size.

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Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
In ME Tali is presiding over the engine of the ship.
In ME2 Garrus is always calibrating weapons.
In ME3 Liara is ||operating the shadow broker network.||

In DA:O they sit around camp but are relaxing, like Oghren drinks.
In DA2 they actually occupy their homes, like Anders is running a clinic.
In DA:I they all occupy parts of Skyhold and act as your inner circle, like Iron Bull rests in the bar and commands his mercenaries.
It's kind of fun coincidence, but I keep DA:O and ME1 in mind as examples for Option 2. Yeah, companions in this games are performing some animations and occupying a place of their own, but that's all.
Same Tali in ME isn't actually performing as an engineer, we have our engineering staff without her, she just brings a bit of her quarian insight to them. That gives her some personality, but not life.
DA:O is even worse. Companions there do not have much to do even on screen, and off-screen they are practically do not exist.
When I'm talking about alive not lazy companions I do not mean companions, who have their spot in our base of operations, perform some animations there and then tell me from time to time that they talked to someone. I mean companions more like in ME:A (yeah, bad game, but it pretty much nailed this) who change space around them, spread around friendly settlements when we come there, leave some traces of their off-screen life, have tasks and projects of their own, interact with each other on regular basis.

MEA is filled with good ideas that aren't really realized, and many many issues with its plot and characters and even mechanics. BUT, I do agree that how the companions occupied the spaces were pretty nice in MEA, even if I really didn't like most of the cast. Something about them were grating and I couldn't place it. Wasn't them being a replacement in my eyes or anything about that, just I found myself the opposite of compelled and just came away disliking everyone except the Krogan.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
And it is very close but does have some minor differences, in particular with Origins the layout feels very different that the companions despite being in a camp feel like they are actually occupying this camp.
Furthermore, purely cause of how events were handled, DA:O's camp felt more alive with companions having events and interactions, cause it wasn't just sleeping as the flag.
I allways kinda hated (even tho its a little too strong word), that all events are happening just when you click your companions ...
Swen (sorry, Sten laugh ) was standing 10m away from your dog, and when you clicked on dog, he teleported and kneel before him. :-/

I hope if Larian will implement such interaction, we would see it before conversation start. :-/

We kinda do see a small improvement on that in this game with its nightime events. For example, Gale's Mirror Image scene or his Weave scene.
BUT, tying these to sleeping as the trigger actually makes them feel a little less natural (and harder to trigger for some). It'd be more natural if they spread out in the camp, and when in camp they would actually move to their event spot I feel. Some events being tied purely to night, while others for day.
Actually, I would like to see the camp still handled like Origins where everyone is semi dismissed in camp, but you can access their inventory, level them, and interact with them, would make things feel more uh a group thing.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age as series handled the problem of what companions do when you aren't with them. They occupy their own place in the hub and do what they need to or like to do.

The entire Mass Effect series companions serve a role in your crew:
In ME Tali is presiding over the engine of the ship.
In ME2 Garrus is always calibrating weapons.
In ME3 Liara is
||operating the shadow broker network.||

In DA:O they sit around camp but are relaxing, like Oghren drinks.
In DA2 they actually occupy their homes, like Anders is running a clinic.
In DA:I they all occupy parts of Skyhold and act as your inner circle, like Iron Bull rests in the bar and commands his mercenaries.

Bioware figured out in those games to give companions more natural activities, and they do range from contributing to the group to sitting around and relaxing. So I feel if Larian wanted they could give each companion a camp role or something to do, even if that something is staving their own boredom.

BG3 might already be doing this, but the story is in a place where it might not be able to show this, and the presentation of the companions interacting with the world beyond just the main character is rather off right now.

Pathfinder WotR actually does everything you mentioned and takes it up to 11.

In chapter 1, the main base is an overcrowded tavern and smithy that's acting as the sole remaining stronghold for the city's crusaders. And when I say overcrowded, I mean it, there's a LOT of NPCs scattered about. Everyone is obviously a fish out of water at this point in the game.

In chapter 2, the party and crusade are on the move. The party members without any military ties are generally just milling about, but the majority of them try to be productive.

- Ember the witch is out healing people and instilling hope in them with her unusual powers for an elf acting like a little girl, unless you discourage her from doing so later in the chapter. You'd have to be roleplaying a complete asshole to do that though. >:(
- Seelah the Paladin occupies a corner of the camp with her group of adventurer and paladin friends.
- Woljif the eldritch scoundrel tiefling has his 'thiefling' connections set up by this point, and begins acting like a merchant himself. You can even buy from and sell stuff to him.
- Lann the mongrelman archer had spent most of his life living in dark underground caves, and had seldom seen the sky before joining the party. The first time you leave camp, you can overhear a conversation between him and another crusader about why he's always watching the sky. He explains that he had come to learn that the space above him is another potential avenue to get attacked from, to which the crusader calls him paranoid.
- Regill the hellknight joins early on if you allow him to, and he occupies another corner of the camp with his regiment of Hellknights.

By chapter 3, the crusade has retaken a fortress city. Everything is set up in record speed, and all of your companions can be seen attending to their own tasks throughout the city.

- Arueshalae the ranger succubus is seen near the temple, for it's where she feels safest and that her path to redemption was something brought about by Desna, the goddess of dreams. She starts watching the townspeople go through their lives in an effort to remember what it means to live as a mortal from there. Eventually she starts dreaming again, which is a huge deal to her as demons cannot naturally dream. Her personal quests at one point involves asking you to inquire with a lot of people around the city about what they dream of as she discreetly watches, though many of said NPCs end up guessing that Arueshalae put you up to this, but trust you and her enough to answer honestly.
- Seelah is seen training with the other crusaders, paladins, and/or new recruits at the barracks, specifically near the temple.
- Sosiel the cleric is usually seen painting all over the city. His position within the city actually changes depending on the time of day, such as being on the castle walls during the evening to paint the sunset or the city square during the day painting passerby or the statue there. One of his personal quests involves one of the major crusade advisors being concerned about his mental health and hearing rumors about him gambling at night. So you have to catch him in the act near the temple at night to have a chat about it.
- Regill and his hellknights set up their own barracks on the opposite side of the city from the crusader recruits, specifically near the prison as well. Regill himself, being the leader of his group of hellknights, is often seen in the citadel with the rest of the major crusade advisors in the war room.
- Camellia the half-elf shaman druid is doing, uh, Camellia things. Not going to explain as her story is best seen for yourselves.
- Lann is near the entrance to the city, and later in the chapter, he gets to bring the rest of his mongrelmen to the surface to participate in the crusade as well. So he ends up getting them situated into the city as their own faction of new recruits.
- Greybor the dwarven assassin is always sitting in the tavern, presumably awaiting new contracts and getting in touch with his contacts. You hire him during the chapter to help in hunting a dragon that occasionally attacks everyone out in the fields.
- Nenio the kitsune wizard occupies the upper floor of the inn, conducting experiments alone out of eyesight of everyone that's avoiding her for very good reasons.
- Daeran the aasimar oracle is generally skulking about the city in his usual brooding state, but he will occasionally come to the war room to offer his questionable expertise.
- Ember starts the chapter alone, but as her personal quest begins and the chapter progresses, she starts preaching to a crowd about forgiveness and the meaning of a good life. The size of the crowd grows throughout the chapter, although you have the option to discourage her. I've never tried this and I would never consider it.
- Woljif is still selling stuff within the street where numerous other merchants are, and his inventory expands at this point.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 03/07/21 06:33 PM.
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I am more thinking the limitation is more the stage of the EA this is all that. No point customizing an area for a companion that might radically change to be an entirely different character.
Story wise they still could customize the camp if it is to be our hub for Act 1, but the customization might be limited, so my wants are likely more late stage. Though i would love to see them move around more and do their own thing.
And for what i am hoping will be our permanent hub from Act 2 onward, I would love to see be done like WotR where the area really feels affected by what companions have been recruited, or at least what Origin companions have been. With notable Non-Origin companions also affecting the area and not so notable ones doing whatever activity makes sense for them.

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I haven't played since November, but I certainly hope there will be more companions, because I really did not like any of them. With the Origin characters they are also "diminishing" my character, because each has a story that is a potential PC, by design.
So I am neither Shepard or the Bhaalspawn, but a rather non-descript guy. Many games do the same, but reveal something later, and/or do not put characters at your side that are grander by design. With voicing them all, Larian is further restricting the number. Each character added and voiced all the times the cost is increased greatly. So we might see 1-2 more, but beyond that? Not likely.

I also do not think that Larian does companions well. Since they are all such grand specimen they naturally have a certain attitude, which is that of the natural leader. So they were constantly nagging instead of giving sound advice or actively helping. Further most interactions are centered around the camp and if you do not rest frequently you are going to miss out on interactions or they get dumped onto you in large amounts. Interactions are also mostly limited to the characters and you, there is little to no interaction, consequence and relationship between characters.

If you want only a limited amount of characters, this is fine, but then these few people should be formed into a homogenous group and not one guy that initiates dialogue and three that sit around and say nothing apart from critisising. Right now, all characters have the same issue, the tadpole, yet only the PC is concerned with the consequences, the others just tag along quietly unless the script calls for them to nag.

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So far, it looks like, in order to "commit" to companions, we will have to decide during certain moments of Act 1 what we will do with a specific plotline (as there will be antagonistic plotlines); instead of the D:OS 2 way "companions not in your party die during a certain moment".

How is it going to work?
Look at the current situation when you side with Goblins during the Grove conflict.
- Wyll just leaves the party
- Shadowheart is clearly annoyed and gets drunk to forget what did she do
- Gale is not feeling that he has done the right thing (and has to be persuaded to stay)
So, for 3 of current companions one is already leaving the team permanently and 2 others foreshadow their intention -> "If you keep doing bad things I might leave". Or they simply become more evil...

Now, let's talk about the 3 datamined origin companions and possible 2 non-origin companions.


During the same quest, it would make sense for the Karlach and Minsc to leave as well, considering that they are good aligned companions.
I'm unsure about what kind of morality the Helia is going to have. It is not even certain that she will be actually in the game, unlike the Minsc or Karlach.
Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jcm2bn/datamining_found_evidence_that_a_datamined/

So it seems that Halsin actually took the role that Helia had before. Interesting, considering that:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...story_spoiler_please_dont_click/gounmqv/

So, looks like Halsin is going to be in trouble during the later stage of act I... And he will have a tadpole! For me it starts to appear that he might be actually a companion later in the game.
That actually would be a very cool thing to happen, since he's really well written and interesting NPC.

I bet that you will have to choose between him and Minthara.




That video shows us that indeed Minthara is coded exactly like a companion. Just like with Halsin it would make sense for her to be a possible companion later in the game (and given the amount of character development both characters have it's very likely)


Shadowheart or Lae'zel, it seems (around 16:00)



This one is pretty old, but it does contain some info still:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/2969520311927202564/

As for redeeming the evil companions, I do not think that it's a bad thing, if it's written well and if it's done in a logical way. Alignment can change and it's way more likely for someone to change from let's say evil -> neutral, than from evil -> good. Certainly, a reverse process (becoming corrupted) could happen for Gale or Shadowheart...

Last edited by TheOnlyRealTav; 07/07/21 01:46 PM.
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Originally Posted by TheOnlyRealTav
As for redeeming the evil companions, I do not think that it's a bad thing, if it's written well and if it's done in a logical way. Alignment can change and it's way more likely for someone to change from let's say evil -> neutral, than from evil -> good. Certainly, a reverse process (becoming corrupted) could happen for Gale or Shadowheart...
Yes it's fine when you do it with one of your companions. But when you do this with EVERY one of your companions, it becomes a ridiculous and pathetic gimmick.

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like in kotor 2


Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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On the bright side, Kotor also allowed you to corrupt them all. :3
Also i never managed to redeem Hanharr ... did you? O_o


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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I liked in BG2 that companions really could be too busy to travel with you for a while. Like Jaheira and her secret harper mission or Keldorn trying to make peace with his wife. That felt more natural. And I'm ok with companions bering unavailable for a time due to personal stuff. Plus it made me use different companions. Jeldorn was always my tank and Jaheira often my goto druid, so I used Cernd and Mazzy or Valygar instead. Not a fan of Cernd, but like the other two.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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