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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
No, you can't.

BG3 in it's current state is a beautifull modern game for casual/modern gamers that don't want to think too much or for players that want to play with friends. Deeper companion and story pathes but poor tactical/DnD combats, theme park map, classes all played the same,...

Solasta has deeper and consistent mechanics that works as a whole. It makes you live a journey accross it's world rather than throwing you "fun gameplay" on your face everytime for the sake of it. Despite the size of the project and the custom world, Solasta is far more like BG1/2 than BG3. The only things it lacks is freedom and a deeper story.

According to me BG3 has close to nothing from BG1/2 exept a bit of lore and names.
These games aren't the same at all even if they uses DnD.

I have to disagree with your stance on BG3 - I don't think it's a no-brain game and lacks tactical functionality, in any respect. DOS2 was lauded for its tactical combat, and that influence has been brought over fairly well for BG3 despite the more limited class structures based around D&D. Many a time my friend and I have had to think about what we're doing in an encounter - and more than once we've hobbled our way to victory simply from changing tactics. In that respect, I enjoy BG3 immensely and only wish to see further improvement on the combat to make it feel like a D&D encounter.

I also don't particularly feel the map is "theme park" in any way. There is already a lot to explore just in Act 1, more than we've managed to. Classes also do not remotely play the same, at least from my experience. Some of them are suffering from the very low level we can go to for the EA currently, but that's about it.

Freedom and a deeper story, to me, makes a BG game. BG3, despite the limitations thus far in Act 1, has hit that note quite well and I feel a lack of freedom would not make for quite as fun of an RPG.

Calling it a 'modern game for casual gamers' seems very disingenuous and downright insulting to anyone who actually enjoys BG3 right now-- whether or not they feel it needs improvements (which I feel it very much does, but that does not detract from the enjoyment I'm finding in it currently).

Originally Posted by Passerby
snip

Honestly I feel more informed from a combination of these piece-by-piece reviews than I would from one or the other, so thank you both much for that!

Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Can I presume Solasta is to BG3 what Icewind Dale was to BG1+2?
Yes, I would be wary of categorizing Solasta as a Role-playing game, at least to what I personally would expect to get from a role-playing game. Icewind Dale is best comparison I can think of - custom party, linear adveture, very dungeon and combat heavy. It is nicely paced, and I find story, VO and characters are bad-mediocare but in a charming and indearing kind of way. With a bit more budget and development it could become a really neat IP. What they did works, in my opinion (I wouldn't want Solasta2 to become full fledged RPG for example) but pretty much every aspect of it would benefit of a cash injection.

Thank you, that was what I was assuming. I did enjoy Icewind Dale way back, though it didn't quite scratch the itch for story and immersion as well as BG1+2 did. So I fear Solasta would be the same way in this case. Both in TT D&D and in video-game form, I prefer the RP aspect and grand storytelling first over combat. So, seems I'll be continuing to wait semi-impatiently for the full game release of BG3. : p

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Originally Posted by The Composer
Everyone is victim of passion overtaking rationale and temper every now and then, and often people respond to challenge it as seen by the responses above. As Saito pointed out...


Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
[...]

Although I also have to say as a former mod myself - if you have to apologize to the mods ahead of time, you probably should rethink things.

Along with Niara's counter arguments and other replies toning things down, with Blackfeiffer's clarification of their stance and opinions, there's no need for moderation. It's when people can't come back down from their temper, or move on, where moderation becomes necessary. Most of their post history is fine. We don't punish people for one mishap.

Repeated behavior and continuing to derail topics on the other hand, will result in action.

So if person A says insulting things about people of a certain group, but that group's people are forgiving and patient and tone things down in their replies, then mods don't do anything? It's not even about punishment. It's about pointing out to person A that his behaviour is out of line.

I reported his post, and minutes later, a mod complimented that very post by saying that it's informative.

In other words, when a post crosses the line, we can't hit back, but should report it instead.

But when it gets reported, mods compliment it.

So we can't hit back, but when we report it, the mods take his side.

And about derailing topics; even moderators have gone on long tangents in threads. This is a real question that applies to this community.

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Originally Posted by MarbleNest
more than once we've hobbled our way to victory simply from changing tactics.

Let me guess... Going higher ? Backstab your ennemies more often ? Shoving them ? Forgetting everything that belongs to DnD to embrace the cheesy mechanics ?

Don't get me wrong, I like this game.
But I hate it's poor tactical combats. Combats were way better in Larian's own setting than in a DnD one that has way more potential in terms of creativity and possibilities.

Don't know how many hours you played but after you'll find the good way of playing (that's the same whatever your classes), you'll probably get bored too.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 01:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Quote
more than once we've hobbled our way to victory simply from changing tactics.

Let me guess... Going higher ? Backstab your ennemies more often ? Forgetting everything that belongs to DnD to embrace cheesy BG3 mechanics ?

Don't get me wrong, I like this game.
But I hate it's poor combats. Combats were way better in Larian's own setting than in a DnD one.

Except... most of those tactics are things that work in D&D as well? Backstab is a thing? High ground is a thing?

Almost no mechanics in BG3 are cheesy. And in fact, some of those very tactics are what we avoided because it'd place a character in a bad situation.

Combat feels fine. It feels as good - if not maybe a little more limited - as DOS2's did, and the limitations come from D&D class differences, so it's expected. I do think they could improve on it, but as it stands, there's nothing I've found inherently bad or awful with the combat. It feels like a D&D encounter, including the heap of times an attack might miss.

Really if they make one small improvement to it, it'd just be visible dice rolls in combat.

Last edited by MarbleNest; 30/05/21 01:01 PM.
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No, backstab to have advantage is not a thing in DnD... Neither is highround to have an advantage and give disadvantage. Those two mechanics makes you become gods without any consequences.

Shoving is not something you're trying at every turn in DnD... like anything else : it's a tactical choice.

In BG3 there's close to 0 tactical choices. Just use those cheeses to win easily even in a solo playthrough.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 01:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Passerby
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Mod's my apologies in advance if any of this was over the top.

I found it rather amusing; and actually quite informative, I feel I know much more about Solasta from that one post than all the other references I've seen to date.

Why is it okay for him to be passive-aggressive and snarky?

Everyone who replied to him had to toe the line, while he got to post things like

"Its the fan boi's with no social skills running their mouths on the BG3 forum."

"BG3 is also an incredibly ambitious game that gets bombarded daily by an endless parade of lazy, mealy-mouthed gamers who just instantly crap on it with very little thought. "

You're right. This is insulting.
I came to this forum to log issues and provide a feedback on various aspects of the game.
The fact that this type of behaviour is validated makes me think I am wasting my time here.

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Originally Posted by The Composer
Everyone is victim of passion overtaking rationale and temper every now and then, and often people respond to challenge it as seen by the responses above. As Saito pointed out...


Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
[...]

Although I also have to say as a former mod myself - if you have to apologize to the mods ahead of time, you probably should rethink things.

Along with Niara's counter arguments and other replies toning things down, with Blackfeiffer's clarification of their stance and opinions, there's no need for moderation. It's when people can't come back down from their temper, or move on, where moderation becomes necessary. Most of their post history is fine. We don't punish people for one mishap.

Repeated behavior and continuing to derail topics on the other hand, will result in action.
Passive aggressive behavior is obvious for everyone except those who prefer to turn a blind eye on it. Well that one wasn’t even passive.

Originally Posted by MarbleNest
I also don't particularly feel the map is "theme park" in any way.
There were so many examples of why it objectively feels theme park-y. Do you think that those examples are not sufficient? Can you explain your point?


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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Mod's my apologies in advance if any of this was over the top.

I found it rather amusing; and actually quite informative, I feel I know much more about Solasta from that one post than all the other references I've seen to date.

Ha, thanks! I was going for tongue-in-cheek, informative but entertaining. That doesn't always land correctly.


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
No, backstab to have advantage is not a thing in DnD.
Highround to have an advantage and give disadvantage is not a thing.
Shoving is not something you're trying at every turn, it's... A tactical choice.

Dunno mate, friend plays D&D every week and has mentioned things working that way in 5e, so I'm more inclined to believe them than someone who clearly has issues with the game on a forum.

Originally Posted by VenusP
There were so many examples of why it objectively feels theme park-y. Do you think that those examples are not sufficient? Can you explain your point?

If there were examples listed in this thread, then I apologize, as I may have glossed over them. But considering I play a "theme park" MMO, I can say that BG3 certainly doesn't feel that theme park-y to me. What do people define as 'theme park' versus free open world? Are the various different things going on in the map what make people consider it 'theme park'?

Because that seems to be fairly common for most D&D games spanning all the way back to BG1 and 2, to me.

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Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
No, backstab to have advantage is not a thing in DnD.
Highround to have an advantage and give disadvantage is not a thing.
Shoving is not something you're trying at every turn, it's... A tactical choice.

Dunno mate, friend plays D&D every week and has mentioned things working that way in 5e, so I'm more inclined to believe them than someone who clearly has issues with the game on a forum.

Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 01:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

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Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

I was just saying that it's not how it works in DnD. If your friends really said it is they're wrong, no matter who you're more inclined to believe.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 01:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

Let's not go there please. Thanks.


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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

I was just saying that it's not how it works in DnD. If your friends really said it is they're wrong, no matter who you're more inclined to believe.

First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.

I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 30/05/21 02:26 PM.
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I'm 100% with Passerby here. @Blackheifer's post contained lines such as
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
- Its the fan boi's with no social skills running their mouths on the BG3 forum. I'd explain what a "reaction formation" is to these people but I don't want them staring at me like a dog that's been shown a card trick.
- BG3 is also an incredibly ambitious game that gets bombarded daily by an endless parade of lazy, mealy-mouthed gamers who just instantly crap on it with very little thought.
- But for those out there that ARE well-adjusted humans who have not played this game.
But not only did he not get called out by mods, he actually got praised by 1 mod, and another mod accepted his post. We weren't asking for Blackheifer to be immediately banned for this one post. We would like these types of comments to be declared unacceptable by mods. At the very least, we'd like for the mods to not praise the poster. What happed to "please no personal attacks?"

@Passerby says it best
Originally Posted by Passerby
So if person A says insulting things about people of a certain group, but that group's people are forgiving and patient and tone things down in their replies, then mods don't do anything? It's not even about punishment. It's about pointing out to person A that his behaviour is out of line.
In other words, when a post crosses the line, we can't hit back, but should report it instead...but when we report it, the mods take his side.

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Leave it be please. They're aware that they overstepped, and unless overstepping continues, that's a thing of the past. Continuing to fixate will result in the thread being locked. So if there's interest in discussing Solasta/BG3 chit-chat, please focus on that. We declare stuff to be unacceptable all the time, by asking you to stop/reel it in/etc. Some people just decide not to notice/adhere to it, and they disappear sooner or later. So if you believe someone are bad eggs, trust that they'll be gone eventually.

Continuing to derail the thread is also unacceptable. Just as people misbehaving. They're aware. Move on.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

I was just saying that it's not how it works in DnD. If your friends really said it is they're wrong, no matter who you're more inclined to believe.

First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.

I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%.

I won't go into other explanations about it.

I absolutely don't care if the game isn't exactly like the rules.
I absolutely don't care if they add new mechanics (I even find it cool because according to me every RPG should now include some Larian's concept).

But I care if their mechanics unbalance everything and if those rules lead to poor and repetitive tactical combats.
If MY choices are bad because THEY decided how I should play, I cannot enjoy it as a tactical and a DnD game.

I'm not sure driving players and limiting their creativity in combats is why any DM creates homebrew.
That's the result of BG3's homebrew.

Read other threads if you don't understand why (you probably already have).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 30/05/21 04:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by MarbleNest
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yeah, or you could read the rules to make your own opinion. It's not how it works in DnD.

I'm not playing the TT but I'll be glad to teach the rules to your friends wink

And you could stand to be a little less sarcastic and hostile to people who don't share your negative opinion on a game?

I was just saying that it's not how it works in DnD. If your friends really said it is they're wrong, no matter who you're more inclined to believe.

First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.

I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%.

No one said rules cannot be modified, the argument arose because of “things are working this way in 5e” which is not truth.

Your suspicion is based on what exactly? So far I’ve seen mostly very good in-depth criticism. Considering it will eventually play into everybody’s hands by improving the overall gameplay. On the other side I see a lot of unfounded dismissal coming out from people with little to no explanation why the established in the EA rules are good.

Given things won’t change till full release I predict this balance won’t be this good. My current review is positive btw.

Try to address the arguments, not your assumptions of someone’s degree of caring.


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Of course, it's not about everyone who complains about certain aspects of the game, but more about certain people.
In my opinion, a certain group of people on this forum (and not only) is exaggerating a bit, but that's their business.
I dont mind the criticism (I agree in part, although probably not with most) but it also seems that some people have unrealistic expectations about the game.
After all, reading some topics, you can get the impression that some people dont like anything about the game.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
First, the basic rules of PnP are not a penal code, and if you do not follow it, SWAT will suddenly not burst into your home.
Secondly, the rules can sometimes even be heavily modified, it all depends on the group's approach. Some groups like to focus more on combat, while for others combat is absent.
Third, everyone plays the way they like.

I doubt that the group of players who really cares about whether they are implementing the rules exactly is actually large. There were even complaints about the most common homebrews on the forum.
Some people won't be happy if the game isn't 100% RAW or looks like BG2. I suspect that they don't even care if the game will be more enjoyable that way.
Reading the forums, you would get the impression that the game instead of 88% positive (which is a huge amount in the case of a controversial game in EA) should have at most 50-60%.

I agree that changing the rules might be good. The question is what change you make and for what purpose. If you change everything about the way combat works
You need to do it for the right reasons. By the way, this argument is precisely the reason Solasta is brought up so often here - Larian claimed they had to make this crazy changes because the more faithful way they claim they initially did wasn't fun, and then almost as an answer to a dare In comes Solasta and proves it isn't true and a more faithful version could be extremely fun.

Last edited by Abits; 30/05/21 04:08 PM.

Larian's Biggest Oversight, what to do about it, and My personal review of BG3 EA
"74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems."
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