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we don't already have that.

The features of the subclass are not the abilities the other classes get. They come from the same source but they don't produce the same effects. The subclass has an individual spelllist and the telepathic speech feature would probably switch to free uses of detect thoughts and Psychic Defenses would be great against the primary enemies, mind flayers.

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Off topic but since you brought up this particular example

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I dunno, maybe im totally wrong here ... but it seem to me like creating a Barbarian in setting, where every created character no matter the class, gets Rage with all its benefits at character creation. O_o

The game already provided Rage (all its benefits without any of it's downsides) to every created character no matter the class. The freely available backstab and high ground advantages completely devalues the barbarians rage. They have also done the same thing to the rogue and non wizard spellcasters.


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But why play Barbarian then, when every figher is also Barbarian with its own perks added on top?

exactly why people are unhappy with the current implementation of advantage from backstab and highground, bonus action disengage and wizards learning non wizard spells. glad you understand.


If they are ok doing that to the barbarian, rogue and non wizard spellcasters then they are ok doing that to the sorcerer.

Last edited by TestyMcTesterson; 14/06/21 10:52 AM. Reason: add quote for readability
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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
The subclass has an individual spelllist and the telepathic speech feature would probably switch to free uses of detect thoughts and Psychic Defenses would be great against the primary enemies, mind flayers.
Same goes for gloom stalker ... so fingers crossed i presume. laugh

I dunno ...
It still simply feels unprobable to me, i would presume that Larian would take HUGE inspiration in that subclass, for Sorcerer that is actualy using its Tadpole ...
You know what i mean right? Simmilar to when Druid is able to take Intellect Devourer form.

I never said its impossible ... i just cant help the feelins that odds are lower than low.

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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
The game already provided Rage (all its benefits without any of it's downsides) to every created character no matter the class. The freely available backstab and high ground advantages completely devalues the barbarians rage. They have also done the same thing to the rogue and non wizard spellcasters.
I dont think so ...
As far as i know, Rage gives you at least 3 benefits:
(4 if you count checks and saving throws separately ...)

• You have advantage on Strength Checks and Strength Saving Throws.
• When you make a melee weapon Attack using Strength, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll. This bonus increases as you level.
• You have Resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
Source: https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Barbarian#content

I mean sure ... we can get Advantage easily, wich certainly is 1/4 of Rage benefits ...
Yet, in "some" situations we need to at least jump over the creature, so we get to its back ... therefore its not "freely available" ... it depends on player then, if they want to spend bonus action to get Rage with all its benefits, or only jump around and attack poorly with "just advantage on hit". :P
And even if ... simmilar to: "telepatic speech feature would probably switch to free uses of detect thoughts" ... the same goes for advantage from backstab, or while raging ...
To be honest, looking at all those benefits ... i would rather rage than jump, but i gues its matter of choice.

And about Wizzards ... unless i see some confrimation from Larian that this is "working as intented" i will concider it to be simple bug. :P

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 14/06/21 11:10 AM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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TestyMcTesterson probably meant Reckless Attack, not Rage.

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yes i did, thanks for clarifying. I confused the two terms when replying so i misread the example.

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edit

Now that i think about it , they've added other rage like effects to every character , not just reckless attack.

-The advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throw is nerfed because throw and shove are automatic without checks as far as i know.
-The +2 bonus to the damage roll is replicated by weapon dipping.
-Cant think of a generally available resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, i'd have to check

Last edited by TestyMcTesterson; 14/06/21 12:05 PM. Reason: edit
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I see. laugh
That indeed change things a bit. smile

But yeah, i believe we allready talked about reckless attack in other threat, didnt we?


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Here's the edit i added before i saw your new post so not so much is changed after all


Now that i think about it , they've added other rage like effects to every character , not just reckless attack.

-The advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throw is nerfed because throw and shove are automatic without checks as far as i know.
-The +2 bonus to the damage roll is replicated by weapon dipping.
-Cant think of a generally available resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage, i'd have to check

so really that 3/4 rage abilities available to all classes, why bother play the barbarian right?

The reason we are talking about rage and it's feature reckless attack is because you brought it up not me, remember? If you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to.

Last edited by TestyMcTesterson; 14/06/21 12:09 PM.
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I dunno ... im irredeemable optimist in this case ...

So i would say that odd that throwing is done without checks are simmilar to odds that we just simply dont see them in combat log. laugh
But honestly i never tryed to throw a goblin with my Wizzard, who had 8Str so ... they are probably simmilar to odds that im simply wrong here. laugh

About damage ... yes, diping gives you another 1d4 if im not mistaken ... i dont quite see how that negates raging, wich would give you 1d4+2 for attacking with dipped weapon. O_o
But i gues it would something like "+2 would be much better buff without it" ... well ... /shrug ... buff is still there, there is no way to get the same buff, buff stacks with other buff ... therefore buff keeps unaffected.

SO i presume that is why bother with Barbarian. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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To bring this back on topic after a nice little loop of unnecessary derailment, you can now apply all the reasons you gave for playing a barbarian to your question about why bother to include the aberrant mind sorcerer.

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Originally Posted by Niara
How can you rant on something for hours and hate it so vehemently when you, by your own recent admission actually know next to nothing about it, don't understand it, and have never had any actual contact with it at an experiential level?

You actually can't.

I'd invite you to try, in an articulate, reasoned and sensible fashion, giving back up to what you have to say and explanations for your impressions. Please - it might help some of us understand your apparent loathing of this thing that you don't really know anything about, by your own admission.

Because smart Alek, I said I knew nothing about the rules of TT D&D. After three playtest run throughs of Early Access BG3 and testing the combat system thoroughly, I know all I need to know about the Sorcery system and how restrictive it is, and how it makes Wizards paper Tigers. There's a reason almost every other game in existence uses the Mana system for magic. If you want a reasoned, articulate and sensible expansion on my feelings, go do some research into my posts regarding the combat system as a whole, and how in its current state it falls short of what should be acceptable to ship with. Franky I could not care less what the rules of D&D are, I only care that the game I stupidly paid a premium price for is released with a combat system that is fit for purpose. Right now it is not.

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I believe that would be impossible ...
Since i dont find any paralel between those arguments, nor i find most of them valid ... as you can see abowe. O_o

Anyway, as i said before ...
My personal gues would be that Aberrant Sorcerer would be inspiration for his tadpole powers ...
But i really doubt we get tadpole-power origin for Sorcerer, that is refusing to use his tadpole. O_o

And as i said before, i certainly can be totally wrong. smile


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Chief_Jericho
Originally Posted by Niara
How can you rant on something for hours and hate it so vehemently when you, by your own recent admission actually know next to nothing about it, don't understand it, and have never had any actual contact with it at an experiential level?

You actually can't.

I'd invite you to try, in an articulate, reasoned and sensible fashion, giving back up to what you have to say and explanations for your impressions. Please - it might help some of us understand your apparent loathing of this thing that you don't really know anything about, by your own admission.

Because smart Alek, I said I knew nothing about the rules of TT D&D. After three playtest run throughs of Early Access BG3 and testing the combat system thoroughly, I know all I need to know about the Sorcery system and how restrictive it is, and how it makes Wizards paper Tigers. There's a reason almost every other game in existence uses the Mana system for magic. If you want a reasoned, articulate and sensible expansion on my feelings, go do some research into my posts regarding the combat system as a whole, and how in its current state it falls short of what should be acceptable to ship with. Franky I could not care less what the rules of D&D are, I only care that the game I stupidly paid a premium price for is released with a combat system that is fit for purpose. Right now it is not.

Which game do you think has the best magic system? Can you give us a couple of examples, please?

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Originally Posted by Chief_Jericho
Originally Posted by Niara
How can you rant on something for hours and hate it so vehemently when you, by your own recent admission actually know next to nothing about it, don't understand it, and have never had any actual contact with it at an experiential level?

You actually can't.

I'd invite you to try, in an articulate, reasoned and sensible fashion, giving back up to what you have to say and explanations for your impressions. Please - it might help some of us understand your apparent loathing of this thing that you don't really know anything about, by your own admission.

Because smart Alek, I said I knew nothing about the rules of TT D&D. After three playtest run throughs of Early Access BG3 and testing the combat system thoroughly, I know all I need to know about the Sorcery system and how restrictive it is, and how it makes Wizards paper Tigers. There's a reason almost every other game in existence uses the Mana system for magic. If you want a reasoned, articulate and sensible expansion on my feelings, go do some research into my posts regarding the combat system as a whole, and how in its current state it falls short of what should be acceptable to ship with. Franky I could not care less what the rules of D&D are, I only care that the game I stupidly paid a premium price for is released with a combat system that is fit for purpose. Right now it is not.

You may debate the merits of the D&D system of magic (aka "Vancian Magic") as much as you want, but I think that this is a point that is VERY unlikely to change. It is fundamental to every version of Dungeons and Dragons, for better or worse, and a game system licensed from Wizards of the Coast WILL include it. You might want to look into a refund if you find this to be a pain point for you.

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Let's calm down everyone! I don't want the modders shutting this thread down due to fighting.
Back to Sorcerous Origins, is Wild Magic from a Chaotic plane such a Limbo or the Abyss or is it just a fluke of the Weave?


Read the fine print.
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Originally Posted by Player's Handbook
Wild Magic
Your innate magic comes from the forces of chaos that underlie the order of creation. You might have endured exposure to raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a fey being or marked by a demon. Or your magic could be a fluke of your birth, with no apparent cause. However it came to be, this magic churns within you, waiting for any outlet.

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Originally Posted by TheAscendent
Let's calm down everyone! I don't want the modders shutting this thread down due to fighting.
Back to Sorcerous Origins, is Wild Magic from a Chaotic plane such a Limbo or the Abyss or is it just a fluke of the Weave?

Honestly, 5e is flexible enough that its on the player to explain it. It could be a fluke of the weave, energy from another plane, or even just natural magic the person was born with cause weird genetics, or you could even RP it as a curse of sorts.

"Your innate magic comes from the wild forces of chaos that underlie the order of creation. You might have endured exposure to some form of raw magic, perhaps through a planar portal leading to Limbo, the Elemental Planes, or the mysterious Far Realm. Perhaps you were blessed by a powerful fey creature or marked by a demon. Or your magic could be a fluke of your birth, with no apparent cause or reason. However it came to be, this chaotic magic churns within you, waiting for any outlet."

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Originally Posted by Chief_Jericho
Because smart Alek, I said I knew nothing about the rules of TT D&D. After three playtest run throughs of Early Access BG3 and testing the combat system thoroughly, I know all I need to know about the Sorcery system and how restrictive it is[...]

Just so you can clarify your point, you seem to profoundly dislike the spell slot system, which is fine, and then this is simply not the game for you. I really don't think they're going away because as other said they are a core dnd mechanic for every edition except 4e (which had more or less of a cooldown based system). But to make things clearer: sorcery points are NOT spell slots, they are an extra resource to manage, line the battlemaster's superiroty dice, or the monk's ki points, or the druid's wild shape, etc. At that point honestly i can just hope that larian won't butcher the class too much.

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I really like some of the homebrewed bloodlines/lineages/origins. My favorite is infernal which is Homebrewed. It was inspired by the Pathfinder Bloodlines.
Link to Homebrew Infernal Bloodline
Which if any are your favorite.


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Summoning greater Demon on level 6 seem quite powerfull. O_o


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by TheAscendent
I really like some of the homebrewed bloodlines/lineages/origins. My favorite is infernal which is Homebrewed. It was inspired by the Pathfinder Bloodlines.
Link to Homebrew Infernal Bloodline
Which if any are your favorite.

Funny, I've made my own only a few days ago: https://docdro.id/HwKaAzP

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I am looking forward to sorcerer more than any other addition to the game. I so want to roleplay a char recently exposed to wild magic and thus trying to learn newfound abilities. I hope wild magic tree is done well!!

I also hope that there will be some response of chars like Gale and Wyll to the sorcerer brand of magic. I was surprised Gale had no strong comments or opinions (beyond a mention) when I played thru as a warlock. However, from what I understand, wizards usually look down on sorcerers and vice versa. I hope Larian implements more reaction from the party regarding ur char’s race/ class / background overall. It would be even more fun if Gale does not like you at first for being a sorcerer and Shadowheart does not trust you because ur wild magic is unpredictable (for example).

I haven’t played tabletop in many many years, but I really like the idea of limited spells/cantrips but with neat tweaks to those spells as you level up via metamagic (thanks for list Ragnarok!). I hope very much they make it as distinct from wizards and warlocks in the game as it is in DnD games. As of now…there feels like too much overlap between all the classes. If they do that with the sorcerer in particular, it will ruin the fun of that class I think.

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