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First of all, yes, Solasta is ugly and the story is not very interesting.
They also do not have the full DnD licence, so there are only a few races and classes.
Now lets talk about the things that were good:

user interface:
Solasta is way better than BG3.
As I have written even before playing Solasta, BG3 needs a spell menu. The hotbar in BG3 is a total mess. Its even worse when a new icon comes up "cast spell x again", probably some hotbar pages later.
A menu for class abilities would also be great.
In Solasta I never had a problem to find the spell or ability I was looking for. (except help actions, see later)
Sorting and searching several pages of hotbars in BG3 is annoying.

game mechanics:
- BG3 is proud of being vertical. Then please add fly and spiderwalk too, this was great in Solasta.
When I see BG3 now, "fly" being a big jump feels just wrong.

- Please use actions, bonus actions and reactions properly, as written in the DnD rules. Solasta felt like a well balanced game. BG3 feels like complete cheese in comparison. Jumping behind enemies for backstab or shoot/hide while enemies stand there and do nthing feels so wrong.

- The way reaction are managed in Solasta is good. A window popping up "do you want to use this reaction now?" does not disturb the game flow. It does not happen every round and you can ask about several reactions at once.

- Solasta shows you at character creation and at every level up what your character can learn at later levels, what subclasses you can select and what these subclasses will give you.
In BG3 its much harder to plan your character if you do not look in the wiki.

- When combat starts it should start for everybody. It feels wrong when one char is locked in turn based combat while others can sneak around and start another alpha strike from a good position.
Place your characters before combat and get a surprize round if you act first, but do not allow characters to sneak around between enemies while they are frozen in time.

- Proper use of (dis)advantage. BG3 gives way too many advantages. Solasta uses cover for ranged attacks, but you do not get advantage for attacking from above or behind. You only get (dis)advantage when the target is not aware of the attacker or an ability is used that causes (dis) advantage.

- Fast travel: In Solasta you can fast travel on the map if the path to your target is free. This feels OK. In BG3 it feels wrong that you can instandly teleport to any waypoint from anywhere, even from the underdark to the top of a mountain.

- Resting: It is OK if you can rest at dedicated rest points (or you build them up as in Kingmaker) or if you have to walk back to your camp. In BG3 it feels wrong that you can instantly teleport to camp, sleep and teleport right back to the position you have been before. It feels also wrong in BG3 that the camp is NOT a place anywhere on the normal map. I hope you will use a different camp when you have more acts and visit other regions.

- There is one thing that BG3 does better: It has a dedicated help action button. In Solasta you can wake up sleeping chars or stop them from burning, but it took some time for me to find this out and I lost one battle because of it. Help should NOT reanimate a downed char. Since any form of healing can bring back a char, help is not needed for this.

Just to be sure: BG3 is a great game and I enjoyed playing it.
BG3 has a much better graphic, better characters, hopefully a better story, very interactive environment, tons of choices and many ways to approach most quests.
But I would enjoy all of this much more if it was combined with a proper use of the DnD rules.
I do not say this because I am a DnD fan. I never played PnP. I say this because Solasta felt much better balanced and combat in Solasta felt more satisfying.

One more thing:
DOS 1+2 used a few different difficulty levels.
I really like that Solasta and Kingmaker/wotr use many different setting so each player can define its own difficulty.
It would be great if you can select enemy/player stats or your own adjustment of the rules separately.


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OH NO, YOU DIDN'T.

This is not going to down well.
Incidentally I happen to agree on several points (but I can't be bothered to going into details NOW, maybe later).


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This is the first we are hearing about these thing. What is this game Solsta you speak of?


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
This is the first we are hearing about these thing. What is this game Solsta you speak of?

Lol right, I wish the mods would just make a super Solasta sub forum that all posts related to it, would just be moved there.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
- When combat starts it should start for everybody. It feels wrong when one char is locked in turn based combat while others can sneak around and start another alpha strike from a good position.
Place your characters before combat and get a surprize round if you act first, but do not allow characters to sneak around between enemies while they are frozen in time.

No, just no. You are automatically put in combat when a character outside of combat range, gets 1 turn distance from combat. I am not going to spend 4 or 5 turns just to get a controlled character to the combat from 2 rooms over. It is just a bad idea.

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There's nothing wrong with appreciating the qualities of Solasta, there's few more appropriate peers to compare with that are as relevant in the current gaming sphere, and OP makes a well structured and coherent presentation of their thoughts. Meanwhile Larian and others involved in RPG & D&D projects celebrates and cheers on the success of others, that's a win for everyone in the end of the day. There's nothing wrong with putting what players appreciate about Solasta onto paper and airing the wish to see similar approaches inspiring BG3 development.

Stay on topic please.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
- Fast travel: In Solasta you can fast travel on the map if the path to your target is free. This feels OK. In BG3 it feels wrong that you can instandly teleport to any waypoint from anywhere, even from the underdark to the top of a mountain.

- Resting: It is OK if you can rest at dedicated rest points (or you build them up as in Kingmaker) or if you have to walk back to your camp. In BG3 it feels wrong that you can instantly teleport to camp, sleep and teleport right back to the position you have been before. It feels also wrong in BG3 that the camp is NOT a place anywhere on the normal map. I hope you will use a different camp when you have more acts and visit other regions.
Disagree with these! I like to fast travel where I want and when I want and not have to waste time doubling back. Same with resting. I like to rest when I want and don't like restrictions and having to waste time walking back to camp.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
- Solasta shows you at character creation and at every level up what your character can learn at later levels, what subclasses you can select and what these subclasses will give you.
In BG3 its much harder to plan your character if you do not look in the wiki.

- When combat starts it should start for everybody. It feels wrong when one char is locked in turn based combat while others can sneak around and start another alpha strike from a good position.
Place your characters before combat and get a surprise round if you act first, but do not allow characters to sneak around between enemies while they are frozen in time.
These two points have not been brought up enough. (I agree with most points, but really wanted to highlight these two).

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Disagree with these! I like to fast travel where I want and when I want and not have to waste time doubling back. Same with resting. I like to rest when I want and don't like restrictions and having to waste time walking back to camp.
I hate this opinion with the fierceness of a thousand burning suns.

Also, what about actually trying the system you are dismissing, for once? The fast travel system used in Solasta is indeed brilliant in its simplicity.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/06/21 08:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Also, what about actually trying the system you are dismissing, for once? The fast travel system used in Solasta is indeed brilliant in its simplicity.
I definitely won't be playing Solasta that is for sure!

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by Tuco
Also, what about actually trying the system you are dismissing, for once? The fast travel system used in Solasta is indeed brilliant in its simplicity.
I definitely won't be playing Solasta that is for sure!
You shouldn't comment on what does well or poorly either, then.


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Thx Mad for this thread. And thx The Composer for trying to keep it clean.

I agree with most of your points (not that Solasta is ugly^^)

- The user interface in Solasta is very friendly user and new player friendly. You instantly know if you still have something to do or not.
You instantly know where things are. You instantly understand how things works and you can plan your turns and strategize way more easily.
It may not be pleasant for everyone's eyes but the UI do it's job perfectly well : make the user's experience easy and intuitive, requiring minimum effort on the user's part.

- The verticality is also interresting. TBH after I saw what verticality can mean, I don't really find it that great in BG3.
In BG3 the mechanics related to verticality is only shove and highground for bonuses. It's more rigid in Solasta but the game brings interresting things.
Shoving and going in a safer position / have bonuses like in BG3 of course... but flying and walking on the wall is really interresting.

I just closed the game 10 minutes ago. I have been attacked by spider that were camping (ranged poison attack) on top of trees. My solutions was to use ranged attacks with everyone or cast fly/spider climb on my melee characters.
This combat was extremely challenging and the possibilities brought by fly and spider climb were really enjoyable. I really hope Larian will make verticality a bit more deep like it can be in DnD.

- Same about the action economy and the free advantages. Baldur's Gate 3 really unbalanced the rules it's using and drastically reduce the interrests of many combinations / synergies between characters.
Having an advantage in Solasta is really rewarding. A character has entangled or dazzled (? not sure aboutthe word) an ennemy so your companions now have advantage on him. You succeed to push and prone your target so your companions have advantage.
There are so many possibilities and this is so rewardfull. In BG3 it's way too easy to have advantages and you don't feel rewarded when you have one through other mechanic than highround and bactstab...
In the end you're not rewarded at all because you have the same results but with more efforts... meaning that combats are harder and not easier (wasted spellslots and actions)

- About the character creation, I really think that Larian is working on it. Solasta makes a very good job to teach how the game works both for new players and for players that want to plan their character. This is something that is necessary and I'm confident Larian will work on it.

- About combats that should start for everyone at the same time... I agree that it should but I heard that it's very interresting and fun in multiplayer. This is probably something that could easily become an option (I personnaly would enable it but I'm a solo player).

- About reaction. I'm also confident Larian will work on that even if they have to create two mechanics to suit all kind of players. I cannot imagine that a studio that have brought so many things in the genre won't take the opportunity to create a new standard of TB games with the help of DnD.
Even if some don't like the idea of a popup, reactions in Solasta work very well. Being able to make so many different things during our ennemie's turn is very enjoyable. Combats are definitely not slower and they are way more dynamic... which is something that lacks by nature in a turn based system.

- I'm less sonfident about the fast travel and the resting mechanic. I agree that it feels completely wrong in BG3 and simple things like "fast travel trough their beautifull worldmap" would totally solve the terrible instant teleport (works the same but the feeling is totally different).
But what would happen when I'll have to travel back to where I was ? Exemple : I need to rest. Wherever I am I'm opening the worldmap. I click on the camp, time is going on and I'm fast travelling to camp (that really need to be somewhere...).
Then I'm fast travelling back, but where ? Dungeons are not so big but if the game is designed for us to camp after 1 or 2 combats, it will become boring to walk back and forth (It's not a problem to me but I think a lot of players would agree with Icelyn's answer).

It works well in Solasta, the maps are amazing, so is the fast travel mechanic and so is the resting system but their maps are closed and linear while BG3 works with some kind of open world map.
The system wouldn't work in BG3 according to me and resting spots are not possible because the camp is where our character are talking together/where story things happen (i.e Raphael). This is set in stone according to me so the solution for a better fast travelling / resting mechanic is not easy at all for BG3.
(talking about long rest, it's not gonna be hard to make things better about short rests).

Not to mention that average players will probably have to rest more often in BG3 than in Solasta. in this game you never really have to go back at camp. You're waiting for the next one. If Larian's "vision" is to allow 1 or 2 combats between resting, with a long rest point that is not on your road... It will definitely be "complicated".
This is related to the game's balance and difficulty, to the action economy, to the developpers vision of combats design... So the question is really not that easy.

Anyway just like you I really think that BG3 has a huge potential. Way more than Solasta. But Solasta feels way more satisfying to me too for now...
After all... combat (and related mechanics) account for more than half of our playing time.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 12/06/21 09:13 PM.
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Pretty much sums it up.

BG3 is more exciting and cinematic but Solasta is a better game.

I say cinematic instead of immersive because the gameplay and other goofy elements of BG3 sadly throw immersion off.

If Larian can make BG3 combat good and tactically interesting, and cut down on the cheesy barrel and shove factor it could be the best RPG of all time. Unless the story somehow fails completely after act 1, which seems doubtful.

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It's very fun seeing that the people trying to dismiss the feedback with snark are the only people trying to disrupt the conversation. Maybe in a thinly veiled attempt to get the thread locked before it even gets a chance to begin, or gets a 50-page thread locked due to a 2 page derail at the end. I saw that type of behavior a lot when I used to be a moderator at a different forum. And it unfortunately generally works, unless it gets called out directly and everyone is made aware of the purpose.

I am not going to bother going over most of the points as they have been brought up quite a bit, but I will address the one thing that hasn't been talked about much.

Originally Posted by Madscientist
- When combat starts it should start for everybody. It feels wrong when one char is locked in turn based combat while others can sneak around and start another alpha strike from a good position.
Place your characters before combat and get a surprize round if you act first, but do not allow characters to sneak around between enemies while they are frozen in time.

This is probably a limitation of multiplayer, because as someone else already brought up, no one wants to be dragged into combat when they are probably about 3-4 turns away from being able to do anything besides moving closer. That said, having played DOS2 multiplayer recently, it turns out that DOS2/BG3 already has a sort of elegant solution to this - it just needs to be applied to everyone regardless of stealth status. If a character in stealth enters within the sight RADIUS of a hostile enemy, they should be automatically pulled into combat (like what already happens if another character wanders near a fight while not in stealth).

Problem is, it feels like the aggro range in BG3 is a lot wider than it was in DOS2. I have seen enemies and allies entering fights at a range much larger than it was in DOS2, as far as I remember, from far beyond where an enemy sight cone should extend. (This is also an indrect reason why stealth also feels so much more powerful in this game compared to DOS2. It's also why fights like the Minotaur feel a lot more unfair than they should be, being able to spot a non-stealthed party from beyond any range considered reasonable, and getting free damage with their stupid 'jump into your party from a mile away' attack - an example of trap design demanding clairvoyance.)

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- I'm less sonfident about the fast travel and the resting mechanic. I agree that it feels completely wrong in BG3 and simple things like "fast travel trough their beautifull worldmap" would totally solve the terrible instant teleport (works the same but the feeling is totally different).
But what would happen when I'll have to travel back to where I was ? Exemple : I need to rest. Wherever I am I'm opening the worldmap. I click on the camp, time is going on and I'm fast travelling to camp (that really need to be somewhere...).
Then I'm fast travelling back, but where ? Dungeons are not so big but if the game is designed for us to camp after 1 or 2 combats, it will become boring to walk back and forth (It's not a problem to me but I think a lot of players would agree with Icelyn's answer).

It works well in Solasta, the maps are amazing, so is the fast travel mechanic and so is the resting system but their maps are closed and linear while BG3 works with some kind of open world map.
The system wouldn't work in BG3 according to me and resting spots are not possible because the camp is where our character are talking together/where story things happen (i.e Raphael). This is set in stone according to me so the solution for a better fast travelling / resting mechanic is not easy at all for BG3.
(talking about long rest, it's not gonna be hard to make things better about short rests).
It's nothing that complex, really. It's nothing more than a simplified pathfinding on a larger scale. Even in BG3 you can already click any point of the map and your characters will walk up to that point if there aren't obvious architectonical barriers along the road.

The system simply uses a bunch of simplified "main paths" and among these it defines a bunch of key nodes the player can actually fast-travel to. You could do the same with BG3. You wouldn't need to be able to access ANY random point oft the map at will, to begin with.
A thing that could cause problems in BG3 on the other hand is that there is an implied time compression during the fast travel in Solasta that couldn't be applied in BG3 multiplayer without some weird compromise.


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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
This is probably a limitation of multiplayer
It is, but there should be a middle ground. While it's fine that the other player remains in real time when he's far away enough, it's honestly exploitable as hell that the same player can stay in real time even in the middle of the battle area as long as he's in stealth.
When a players/characters are close enough to the action they should join the turn-based timing of the battle, period.

Last edited by Tuco; 12/06/21 09:15 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- I'm less sonfident about the fast travel and the resting mechanic. I agree that it feels completely wrong in BG3 and simple things like "fast travel trough their beautifull worldmap" would totally solve the terrible instant teleport (works the same but the feeling is totally different).
But what would happen when I'll have to travel back to where I was ? Exemple : I need to rest. Wherever I am I'm opening the worldmap. I click on the camp, time is going on and I'm fast travelling to camp (that really need to be somewhere...).
Then I'm fast travelling back, but where ? Dungeons are not so big but if the game is designed for us to camp after 1 or 2 combats, it will become boring to walk back and forth (It's not a problem to me but I think a lot of players would agree with Icelyn's answer).

It works well in Solasta, the maps are amazing, so is the fast travel mechanic and so is the resting system but their maps are closed and linear while BG3 works with some kind of open world map.
The system wouldn't work in BG3 according to me and resting spots are not possible because the camp is where our character are talking together/where story things happen (i.e Raphael). This is set in stone according to me so the solution for a better fast travelling / resting mechanic is not easy at all for BG3.
(talking about long rest, it's not gonna be hard to make things better about short rests).
It's nothing that complex, really. It's nothing more than a simplified pathfinding on a larger scale. Even in BG3 you can already click any point of the map and your characters will walk up to that point if there aren't obvious architectonical barriers along the road.

The system simply uses a bunch of simplified "main paths" and among these it defines a bunch of key nodes the player can actually fast-travel to. You could do the same with BG3. You wouldn't need to be able to access ANY random point oft the map at will, to begin with.
A thing that could cause problems in BG3 on the other hand is that there is an implied time compression during the fast travel in Solasta that couldn't be applied in BG3 multiplayer without some weird compromise.

I get the idea.

But a question : how would it work for the "maps inside the map" ? In exemple the spider lair, the goblins camp (inside) or any other dungeon we could think about.

Would you fast travel to the entrance, enter, re-open the map to fast travel to the last "checkpoint" ?

Last edited by Maximuuus; 12/06/21 09:20 PM.
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Overall, I agree. I didn't beat Solasta yet, but I definitely hope to see a sequel with better budget, move depth and dedicated writing team. Couple notes:


Originally Posted by Madscientist
user interface:
YES! Actions nicely sorted into main and bonus actions. All is easy to find, with no maintenence needed. I wish it was slicker, but foundations and design is solid. Please, please, please Larian. Remove action-bar chore from BG3. Keep hotbar for items only.


Originally Posted by Madscientist
game mechanics:
- BG3 is proud of being vertical. Then please add fly and spiderwalk too, this was great in Solasta.
When I see BG3 now, "fly" being a big jump feels just wrong.
Yeah, that would be cool. I am not sure if BG3 engine is set up for it. All of it seems to be revolving around flat planes, not cubes like in Solasta.


Originally Posted by Madscientist
- When combat starts it should start for everybody. It feels wrong when one char is locked in turn based combat while others can sneak around and start another alpha strike from a good position.
Place your characters before combat and get a surprize round if you act first, but do not allow characters to sneak around between enemies while they are frozen in time.
I think it is nice for coop partners to jog over to join the fight, but yeah, I strongly beliece that combat bubble should apply to invisible party members and enemies.


Originally Posted by Madscientist
- Fast travel: In Solasta you can fast travel on the map if the path to your target is free. This feels OK. In BG3 it feels wrong that you can instandly teleport to any waypoint from anywhere, even from the underdark to the top of a mountain.
I don't feel it is a biggie - if implimented well, BG3 Solasta-like fast travel would work exactly the same as it does now - it would just account for travel-time rather then be explained by teleport magic. Considering that in BG3 time doesn't move forward, I am not really sure if it is worth spending time on. It's part of overall lack of interest in keeping things even remotely grounded and as such not an issue in itself.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
It is, but there should be a middle ground. While it's fine that the other player remains in real time when he's far away enough, it's honestly exploitable as hell that the same player can stay in real time even in the middle of the battle area as long as he's in stealth.
When a players/characters are close enough to the action they should join the turn-based timing of the battle, period.

100%. The current system is beyond stupid and exploitable, and anyone advocating for such a thing to remain as is doesn't have any interest in balance or having this game be taken any seriously in regards to tactical combat (or the commonly touted 'immersion' that people will somehow turn around and use as an argument against implementing proper reactions), period.

Stealth in general needs a rework, we've all seen the footage of people getting repeated attacks in stealth without entering combat, or sneaking around and dropping tons of barrels in the middle of a crowd or getting free 100% probability shoves while everyone else is locked in combat. Solasta actually had a homebrew rule in regards to attacking from stealth, and it appears to have been regarded so well that I've noted tabletop groups actually adapting it now. My own tabletop group started using it today too.

IIRC, the normal rule is as such: You get to make an attack in stealth made with advantage (unless there are conditions that would normally impose disadvantage, which negates the advantage and turns it into a regular roll), and then you are automatically revealed.

The Solasta homebrew rule is as such: You get to make an attack from stealth made with advantage (unless there are conditions that would normally impose disadvantage, which negates the advantage and turns it into a regular roll), and then you have to roll a stealth check against an enemy's perception check to determine if you remain in stealth. Depending on certain conditions, your stealth check may be done with disadvantage (if you're lit or wearing armor that imposes disadvantage on stealth checks). However, if you enter within a certain close range of an enemy's direct field of vision, you are detected no matter what - but you can also re-hide if you are able to break line of sight.

I have noted situations in Solasta where you don't make those rolls and remain in stealth regardless (possibly because the attacker is too far, but I had situations early in the game where I did stealth attacks from 10-15 feet away and didn't roll and I couldn't come up with any real possible explanation for that). Given new nature of this rule, I've chalked it up to bugs and believe the rolls should be happening no matter what. This also gives immense value to equipment that allows advantage on stealth checks and spells like Pass Without Trace, which are currently seemingly worthless in BG3 because you're already good as long as you stay out of sight cones. If something similar is extended to BG3, those checks should also happen if you use/move/drop any item with enemies nearby while you're in stealth.

Granted, I know this is a homebrew rule, but it would be an elegant solution to all the current overbearing stealth exploitation that happens in BG3, because even though Solasta's version of stealth can be expoited pretty heavily, BG3's version is somehow even more exploitable because of the time bubble/attacking from beyond enemy sight range stuff. Plus anything that forces encounters to be rebalanced around not having absurd freeform stealth shenanigans taken into account will result in a far more balanced experience.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I have noted situations in Solasta where you don't make those rolls and remain in stealth regardless
I think that if enemy has line of sight to you, you should get the roll. There is definitely no roll if you kill enemy with the hit, and I am pretty sure there is also no role if you are attacking from undetectable height (3 tiles higher then the enemy, I think). I remember there being quite a few instances where I was surprised not to roll, so there might be some distance issue.

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