Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 24 1 2 3 4 23 24
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
I think it'd be good to stop using the crutch phrase "some things just won't translate well into a videogame".

No matter how many times that is spoken, it won't excuse poor design choices.

Definitely, it doesn't help him at all repeating that all time. .

DnD translate perfectly well in video games. They just don't like it. That's fine, just take responsability of your decisions and stop trying to persuade people that it's someone else's fault.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 17/06/21 08:59 PM.
Joined: Mar 2021
Location: Austin, TX
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Mar 2021
Location: Austin, TX
Good interview. I appreciate Swen taking the time to talk to us for 17 minutes on what they are working on and provide an update. Good information in there. Can't wait to see the actual update!

Sounds like some big changes.

I was sad to hear that they are not committed to DM mode, but its not the end of the world. Also its good to know they are aiming for 2022 which is what we expected.

Last edited by Blackheifer; 17/06/21 09:01 PM.

Blackheifer
Joined: Dec 2020
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
I am cautiously optimistic. Not expecting any new classes is a bummer, but it can be easily forgiven if reactions and ready actions make it in, since that would provide the framework for the remaining classes to come into this game more easily.

Everything regarding potential story changes is nice, but hard to comment on without seeing it for myself.

Joined: Jan 2021
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2021
It is good to hear that we're going to see feedback related changes in patch 5. And it has been good to get some communication on the game.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Sweden
Dez Offline
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Sweden
WE'RE GETTING A SURPRISE ON THE BEACH! :]

Overall, I am happy and content. Larian did exactly what I (we) asked them to do - just a small update to let us know what's going on. Now I have my answer, and I'll patiently wait for the next step. c:

Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Sep 2017
Location: Norway
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
This video has been shared in a few threads.
I guess talking about it in it's own thread would be easier.



Surprise on the beach ? Waking up at night then watching the sun rise in a beautifull D/N cycle !?
Or maybe multiclassing ? What can be this surprise he's talking about ?

A bit more optimistic about combat mechanics, it seems that he's aware that the expectations of "a part of the community" are not met.

According to me shoving and throwing would be absolutely fine if it was toned down a way more strenght dependent.

Not sure I share your newfound optimism.

Swen goes on about "crazy ideas" being a focal point - partly because DOS2 players expect to be able to "do more things" (and allegedly because this is commonplace in D&D by the grace of flexible GMs when it is more like a rare occurrence in my experience). He further says "Larian is a company that focuses on systems", which means cheesy exploits will remain a core game mechanic. It likely means Larian will continue to ignore balancing issues, because these limit "doing more crazy things", and I suspect a day & night cycle (which would provide balance and immersion, but reduce power spam) falls under things Larian is diametrically opposed to. Ignoring the fact D&D is primarily a party-based game where a diverse class composition cover the bases instead of all basically doing the same level of fantastical things - in different colors as in DOS2.

The problem is D&D is FUNDAMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE with DOS (and faster paced video game to be fair). A middle-road approach might be neither here nor there, and at this point I would be more happy with a radical departure from D&D (ie. cooldown on powers instead of powers based on day & night cycles)...or a stricter adherence to it (including day & night cycle). As a very minimum, Larian should address the glaring LACK of INTERNAL LOGIC/IMMERSION and IMBALANCE of their systems. For instance, the shove and throwing abilities does NOT work well as Swen seems to think. It is an unbalancing boost to melee characters (who are already buffed by jumping also being strength-based). Explain why only the player & companions are able to do it. Pushing creatures like the Phase Spider Matriarch defies realism of an ability that is portrayed as mundane yet fantastical in nature. The original BG-series let the player gain fantastical homebrew powers with time. But these powers were linked to the story and had an internal logic to them that BG3 utterly lacks. They also did not benefit just one type of gameplay like in BG3.

That Swen seemed haplessly unaware of the irony of in one sentence acknowledging the players having problems navigating the plethora of powers, and in the next sentence insisting on showering the player with early-game Larianisms as core mechanics and thereby adding unnecessary cumbersome complexity (all effects are already part of base D&D), should not be lost on anyone. Larian's fix is not to dig themselves out of a hole of their own making; it is to draw a map for the player.

Last edited by Seraphael; 17/06/21 09:44 PM.
Joined: Sep 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Agreed that being coy is not helping.

From my reddit post -- which is being karma bombed as usual.

**************8

Sigh.

I stay with this game because: romances, graphics, storyline

And I'm holding out hope that a "DnD mode" will be implemented.

But WOTC made a mistake in giving this to a studio that doesn't like the DnD ruleset. I'm going to email them and tell them that.


"DnD rules don't translate to videogames" except Solasta proved you wrong.

"This isn't a criticism of DnD . . . but the fighter is a tutorial class" Facepalm.

"People came from DOS and wanted . . ." DOS2 was fine. Nowhere near as fun as BG2.

Call me crazy but I came for BG three because I liked BG two. Weird that I would want a sequel to be a sequel, right? I just don't care about DOS2. Those games are Salmon and Chocolate sauce -- both taste great but if you combine them you get something awful.

Enough with the Solasta comparisons

Not to belittle Solasta, as it is a fine game, for what it is, but:

Solasta also has, what..6 classes and 4 races?

Feats that are 100% home rule? Same with sub classes?

A very basic plot and simple side quests?

Minimal cut scenes, minimal need to integrate graphics into the plot?

And Solasta has any number of Combat related issues that miss the mark as well - it is by no means perfect.

Sven stated that they are listening to feedback, that they are making major systemic changes, that the current EA is miles away from what will be a final version, that they are still working out the plot.

He also stated the next update will be largely systemic changes rather than content additions. He stated they are not making announcements as they are focusing on design and implementation, that some things work and some don't and they are not committing until they get something working. And as even he acknowledges the game won't be out until next year at the earliest, it is FAR from anything resembling a final version in any respect.

These boards are often like a game of Post Office - Person 1 whispers the message to Person 2, who tells Person 3 and so on down the chain - by the time it reaches Person 50 the message has changed in it's entirety. It's like Emily Litella saying "What's all this I hear about National Racehorses" when the conversation was about Natural Resources. It hardly encourages Larian to give out information before they are prepared to.

Last edited by Anfindel; 17/06/21 09:39 PM.
Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
Surprise on the beach: Nothing slows our fall and we splat against the ground. Game over. No need to reconcile D&D with DOS. The big update is that everything after that point is removed from the game. During the credits, your ghost gets to shove the scrolling words off the edge of the screen.

I don't think there was any actual information in that interview other than "Yep, pretty much just gonna keep doing what we've been doing."

Joined: Sep 2017
G
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
G
Joined: Sep 2017
Larian understaffed and overwhelmed. Hope the teaser for Patch 5 is related to sliders and customizable rules and implementations.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by Anfindel
Enough with the Solasta comparisons

Not to belittle Solasta, as it is a fine game, for what it is, but:

Solasta also has, what..6 classes and 4 races?

Feats that are 100% home rule? Same with sub classes?

A very basic plot and simple side quests?

Minimal cut scenes, minimal need to integrate graphics into the plot?
How is any of this shit in ANY MEASURE relevant to the point, which is the adaptation of combat core mechanics in a fully functioning framework?
Not to mention that BG3 has an overall budget that I'm not even exaggerating in estimating that could be anything ranging to 30 to 50 times bigger than Solasta, so the arm-wrestling about production value is intrinsically stupid to attempt.

Also, the only reason Solasta made up its own feats is because they are literally forced to, since they don't own the license to use the official ones.
Not because "The devs know better and they wouldn't work in a videogame".

Last edited by Tuco; 17/06/21 09:54 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
And I'm holding out hope that a "DnD mode" will be implemented.
I don't believe that will happen. Even if devs agree with community regarding bad things that their changes added, I don't believe their solution will be to go back to PnP rules, but to try to solve it their way. BG3 departed too far, to easily implement another ruleset.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
"DnD rules don't translate to videogames" except Solasta proved you wrong.

"This isn't a criticism of DnD . . . but the fighter is a tutorial class" Facepalm.
I don't think it is a wrong statement. I don't think artificial feel of Solasta is necessarily a horrible thing (even card games can work in digital setting), but they are not intuitively videogamey (and definitely don't look good). Having to dismiss every reaction interaction is awkward. And I did note how little actual choices I made when playing in Solasta - just swing after swing.

On paper what Larian is trying to do, is good. What they have so far, is not there. Reactions aren't good enough to replace what's in the ruleset, and if backstab/highground, bonus actions jump and push are to make melee characters more interesting, then I don't think they achieve this purpose - if anything they devalue skills of other classes.


Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
"People came from DOS and wanted . . ." DOS2 was fine. Nowhere near as fun as BG2.
I am with you, but
1) D:OS2 sold really well
2) D:OS2 audience is the audience that Larian already has. Satisfying them, plus converting new DnD/Baldur's Gate fans, is probably a safer bet, then betting on audience for a 20 years old title, that might/might not still play games.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
"DnD rules don't translate to videogames" except Solasta proved you wrong.

"This isn't a criticism of DnD . . . but the fighter is a tutorial class" Facepalm.
I don't think it is a wrong statement. I don't think artificial feel of Solasta is necessarily a horrible thing (even card games can work in digital setting), but they are not intuitively videogamey (and definitely don't look good). Having to dismiss every reaction interaction is awkward. And I did note how little actual choices I made when playing in Solasta - just swing after swing.

The question of how reactions feel will certainly vary from person to person. However, I found the system within Solasta to be intuitive and simple to use, and the pop-up windows did not interfere with my immersion. I'd love to see the same system in BG3. YMMV.

EDIT: I would at the very least like to have the OPTION of having a pop-up window to ask whether or not I want to react. This would be particularly welcome for Paladin Smites. They do double damage on crits, so it is nice to be able to "fish for crits" to use for smites. A toggle in the options to turn on/off the pop-up should satisfy people who hate a cluttered UI.

Last edited by dwig; 17/06/21 10:33 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Abits
My main criticism is about what they won't change. I think there are many things in the game that are subject to change, but I'm also certain there are things they already decided will stay the same. I think, for example, that day and night cycle is something that unless they already decided to do, won't be in the game. So why not say it? Same goes for other aspects like reaction system. This silence serves them well, but I don't think it will continue to serve them well for long.

Yeah if they really have employees paid to read this forum and the sub reddit and so on... They should definitely have heard about some things a lot :

- wizard learning cleric spells
- every class being able to cast through scrolls.
- jump/disengage
- free advantage
- dual wield not working properly
- companions that doesn't see each other and don't talk together
- resting system (work in progress or not)
- dipping cheese with candle
- ready action / dodge / ...

What could be the marketing reasons not to give more informations about that ? Who cares about the "known issues" or the "work in progress" at GameSpot or IGN ?

About reaction I guess they cannot say because if they don't succeed at creating something better than now, they'll just leave it like that.
What would be our reactions if they said "we're working on reactions" but then at release de have the same garbage mechanic than now ?

Same about D/N, they could try and keep their decision depending the success or not of their tests.

Bur I think they just don't realize the level of expectations about the game.

Breaking expectations would be better than "we're listening but you won't know what". I'd rather not to care about BG3 anymore because I'd realize that it won't ever met my expectations than keep hoping because there's nothing else to do...

I mean Sven shifted from the " Maybe 2021 -ish release but it's absolutely not a confirmation. " to " No way". So ...yeah, they are probably changing some major things. Things they anticipated would be a problem but just made the " fast version" to see how it's received. And no, breaking expectation in gaming is nowhere close to not promising anything man. Blizzardd was known for a veeeeeery long time as the " when it's ready" studio. Precisely because studios who start to break expectations is the worst PR possible.

Look at bethesda. They made promises , they fucked up at an interdimensional level and there they are. Their next game is a test. They fail, they will forever be seen as the "Fallout 76 studio".

CYBERPUNK and CD Project. They got absolutely demolished, lost insane amount of investors. The console version problem being a legit accusation but based on it an insane amount of bullshit grew on the forums. People talking about staff that CD Project promised and never delivered. Things they never promised in the first place but everyone knows they promised "something " so... maybe they also promised something else?

And BG3 already made a larger public than expected. Yes, there is a different topic about HOW Laria could be managing the community. No, not saying anything isn't the way after me. Especially during EA when players expect some minimum amount of transparency. But they should be VERY careful about it. Why risk their reputation? Worst case scenario they remain the " DOS " studio. Best case everyone will forget everything on this forum if the final version is a blast.


Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
Joined: Apr 2021
Location: Australia
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2021
Location: Australia
It is EXCELLENT to hear SOMETHING about this game. I wholeheartedly appreciate hearing an update - even though it told us a whole lot of not much, I do appreciate the effort in communication.
And that they are working on things based on feedback and the game's systems. I'm really excited for Patch 5. Hopefully not too long now.

Joined: Sep 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Anfindel
Enough with the Solasta comparisons

Not to belittle Solasta, as it is a fine game, for what it is, but:

Solasta also has, what..6 classes and 4 races?

Feats that are 100% home rule? Same with sub classes?

A very basic plot and simple side quests?

Minimal cut scenes, minimal need to integrate graphics into the plot?
How is any of this shit in ANY MEASURE relevant to the point, which is the adaptation of combat core mechanics in a fully functioning framework?
Not to mention that BG3 has an overall budget that I'm not even exaggerating in estimating that could be anything ranging to 30 to 50 times bigger than Solasta, so the arm-wrestling about production value is intrinsically stupid to attempt.

Also, the only reason Solasta made up its own feats is because they are literally forced to, since they don't own the license to use the official ones.
Not because "The devs know better and they wouldn't work in a videogame".


Because comparing Solasta to BG 3 is comparing a 3 course mean to a tomato. That combat tomato may look and taste really nice, but it isn't a dinner. And insisting the meal is going to be awful while the chef is still out shopping for the ingredients is inane. 98% of Solasta is its combat mechanics - the rest is fluff. And the combat mechanics are far form perfect, and certainly NOT 100% 5.0 . It may be closer than BG3, but it's a final version game, and BG 3 is very early access, easily one to two years from completion.

And believe it or not, 5.0 is NOT the be all and end all of all things - I guarantee there will eventually be a 6.0, a 7.0, an 8.0 and so on.

And the core of this is that some people insist that Larian provide updates, answers, feedback, comments and so on on their timetable, twist every comment made by Larian into "evidence" that they are right and nothing will change, and that the meal will now and forever suck. I've mostly walked away from these boards not due to a lack of information from Larian, but because of the incessant negativity, bad-mouthing and bitching about the state of a game in early access.

When you buy a game in early access, you accept the fact that it may turn out how you want it, or it may not. If it does, awesome, if it doesn't, such is life. Larian isn't catering to just MY whims, nor is it catering to the whims of Person A, B, C or D.

I can make all the suggestions and comments I want - but at the end of the day, Larian does not owe me anything other than a finished product.

Joined: Oct 2020
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Anfindel
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Anfindel
Enough with the Solasta comparisons

Not to belittle Solasta, as it is a fine game, for what it is, but:

Solasta also has, what..6 classes and 4 races?

Feats that are 100% home rule? Same with sub classes?

A very basic plot and simple side quests?

Minimal cut scenes, minimal need to integrate graphics into the plot?
How is any of this shit in ANY MEASURE relevant to the point, which is the adaptation of combat core mechanics in a fully functioning framework?
Not to mention that BG3 has an overall budget that I'm not even exaggerating in estimating that could be anything ranging to 30 to 50 times bigger than Solasta, so the arm-wrestling about production value is intrinsically stupid to attempt.

Also, the only reason Solasta made up its own feats is because they are literally forced to, since they don't own the license to use the official ones.
Not because "The devs know better and they wouldn't work in a videogame".


Because comparing Solasta to BG 3 is comparing a 3 course mean to a tomato. That combat tomato may look and taste really nice, but it isn't a dinner. And insisting the meal is going to be awful while the chef is still out shopping for the ingredients is inane. 98% of Solasta is its combat mechanics - the rest is fluff. And the combat mechanics are far form perfect, and certainly NOT 100% 5.0 . It may be closer than BG3, but it's a final version game, and BG 3 is very early access, easily one to two years from completion.

And believe it or not, 5.0 is NOT the be all and end all of all things - I guarantee there will eventually be a 6.0, a 7.0, an 8.0 and so on.

And the core of this is that some people insist that Larian provide updates, answers, feedback, comments and so on on their timetable, twist every comment made by Larian into "evidence" that they are right and nothing will change, and that the meal will now and forever suck. I've mostly walked away from these boards not due to a lack of information from Larian, but because of the incessant negativity, bad-mouthing and bitching about the state of a game in early access.

When you buy a game in early access, you accept the fact that it may turn out how you want it, or it may not. If it does, awesome, if it doesn't, such is life. Larian isn't catering to just MY whims, nor is it catering to the whims of Person A, B, C or D.

I can make all the suggestions and comments I want - but at the end of the day, Larian does not owe me anything other than a finished product.

Comparisons to Solasta are absolutely valid. It is really silly to cry out every time somebody mentions Solasta as though it has nothing to do with BG3. They draw from the same rule set, and Solasta provides an example of how a fairly strict (though not 100%) interpretation of the 5e rules can work in a video game. I don't think that Solasta is a perfect game, but I **DID** enjoy the time that I spent with it, and I think that Larian should pay attention to what they did well.

Regarding what I (or anybody else) has a right to expect from their early access dollars... I agree with your assessment. I am only entitled to receive the final game. However, the game that is delivered in the end will determine how likely I am to ever put up cash for a Larian Early Access again. I assume that this revenue stream is helpful to their design process, and as it stands now I will likely not buy into it next time (though I absolutely reserve the right to change my mind if they surprise me with a release that I love).

Last edited by dwig; 18/06/21 12:30 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2019
Development has been shifted over to porting for consoles and working on other games... they made an amazing amount of money off us and have used it to expand to 7 studios across the globe. Great move for the future of Larian, just sucks that we're not going to see movement on the product we gave them capital for.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by macadami
Development has been shifted over to porting for consoles and working on other games... they made an amazing amount of money off us and have used it to expand to 7 studios across the globe. Great move for the future of Larian, just sucks that we're not going to see movement on the product we gave them capital for.

Oh come on, that's just silly. Larian is not exactly known for their LACK of passion to their games.

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Great to see an interview!

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
My money gets either on "us" ...
I would be happy to get Us. cool

Joined: Jun 2019
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Jun 2019
They have sold 3-5 million early access copies.....they were just handed $250,000,000 in capital for very little investment. They took their existing DoS2 Engine, added some overlays, built a very good 20-30 hour experience all using existing assets for the most part. I'm not saying what they are doing is bad, but look at the studios they've recently opened and the companies they've acquired. It definitely has solidified them as a AAA dev team for the foreseeable future.

They are not the small time Indy dev company they were a few years ago. They have studios in Dublin, Ghent, Saint Petersburg, Quebec, Kuala Lumpar, Guildford and Barcelona with more employees than Bethesda.

Page 2 of 24 1 2 3 4 23 24

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5