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Originally Posted by Niara
The other day I made a wizard charactr and am currently playing through a run where Nobody uses any spells, class abilities or features at all, and everyone just uses shove and throw, and nothing else (haven't decided yet if I'll use bonus action food healing yet... haven't needed it yet though). It's truly disgusting how smoothly it's going and how little thought or effort is required to do this.

Not really a relative comment on wizards per se, but I choose wizard because they're archetypally the weakest for shoving and throwing... Still thought I might throw it in for an additional aside for how poorly made this game's combat mechanics are. It's so ridiculous.
Can you please record me encounters with Bulette, Minotaurs, and Githyanki Patrol? laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Niara
The other day I made a wizard charactr and am currently playing through a run where Nobody uses any spells, class abilities or features at all, and everyone just uses shove and throw, and nothing else (haven't decided yet if I'll use bonus action food healing yet... haven't needed it yet though). It's truly disgusting how smoothly it's going and how little thought or effort is required to do this.

Not really a relative comment on wizards per se, but I choose wizard because they're archetypally the weakest for shoving and throwing... Still thought I might throw it in for an additional aside for how poorly made this game's combat mechanics are. It's so ridiculous.

Did you use foreknowledge of the headband of intellect for that? If anything is overpowered, that is. Maybe not the headband itself, but knowing that is available soon at the time of character creation.

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The headband serves no purpose to this run, since, as I mentioned, I'm not using any class abilities, features or spells, at all. I'm using all and only Larian's larianisms - Throw and Shove, primarily.

I don't really have a set up for recording, no, but I may be able to grab you some screenshots as I do it.

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That would be fine too. smile
Thanks!


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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I kinda do want to see it in action as well, would be easier to analyze as well as it'd likely help in demonstrating what is wrong with these mechanics right now.

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Originally Posted by Niara
The headband serves no purpose to this run, since, as I mentioned, I'm not using any class abilities, features or spells, at all. I'm using all and only Larian's larianisms - Throw and Shove, primarily.
How did you manage the encounter at the grove's gates then? It's a bit of a distance to the nearest ledge, as I reckon - what did you throw goblins off?

Unless you have set up some sort of a conveyor belt to deliver goblins from the gates to the cliff, you would have to actually use weapons, no?

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Originally Posted by RutgerF
Originally Posted by Niara
The headband serves no purpose to this run, since, as I mentioned, I'm not using any class abilities, features or spells, at all. I'm using all and only Larian's larianisms - Throw and Shove, primarily.
How did you manage the encounter at the grove's gates then? It's a bit of a distance to the nearest ledge, as I reckon - what did you throw goblins off?

Unless you have set up some sort of a conveyor belt to deliver goblins from the gates to the cliff, you would have to actually use weapons, no?

If you are up on the cliff area approaching, melee gobbos when not targeting NPCs will run up to you to try and melee, making them very vulnerable to a push.

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Originally Posted by RutgerF
Originally Posted by Niara
The headband serves no purpose to this run, since, as I mentioned, I'm not using any class abilities, features or spells, at all. I'm using all and only Larian's larianisms - Throw and Shove, primarily.
How did you manage the encounter at the grove's gates then? It's a bit of a distance to the nearest ledge, as I reckon - what did you throw goblins off?

Unless you have set up some sort of a conveyor belt to deliver goblins from the gates to the cliff, you would have to actually use weapons, no?

Conveyor belt lol. Nah, they deliver themselves to the highgroudn outside of the gates. Andd it's a 3r floor kind of thing so it hurts.


Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
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Yeah, I remember that hillock, use it all the time. 2 problems though:

  • The drop isn't particularly high. Would require several iterations, esp. with tough leaders. I remember shoving a goblin down during an encounter just before their camp. I sent it all the way down to the road, from the highest point, and he survived the fall with about half HP remaining. This knob is peanuts in comparison. Should have taken a while, I guess.
  • Some goblins do lock up on NPCs, and it might not be easy to make them pay attention to your paragliding offers.


I mean, if that encounter has been done without using a single spell or weapon, well you have my respect. A daunting task indeed.

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Remember that you can also carry 400lb of various junk to throw, and you can happily throw goblins at other goblins until they've all been bludgeoned to death.

I'm looking at my options of compiling some actual viewable feedback for this, since folks seem interested - I'll probably start over if I can find a good way to showcase it.

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You need only one throw to see how broken this mechanic is.

It's like a 9yo player at a table going "I throw the enemy 20 feet over the edge at the other enemy below and kill them both!"

And the DM goes "ok".

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Originally Posted by Niara
The headband serves no purpose to this run, since, as I mentioned, I'm not using any class abilities, features or spells, at all. I'm using all and only Larian's larianisms - Throw and Shove, primarily.

What I meant was that ordinarily you would stack points in intelligence for a wizard, and leave her/him weak in the strength department. Unless you know beforehand about the headband. Did you happen to make your wizard extra strong?

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Yes, I made the wizard strong; Her name is Ka'chu'ka and she has 17 strength, same as Lae'zel. She has 9 Int and 8 Wis and 9 Cha. She's Totally a Wizzard; she casts 'Throw' and 'Shove' and she knows those two spells super good. She's a good Wizzard, too, because she can cast her spells as many times as she wants each day and she never runs out of energy. Other Wizzards must surely envy her, she thinks.

To Rutger, I did restart, and got screenshots as I went. I'm trying to highlight what I'm throwing and at whom, during major encounters. This evening I did the ship, killed the whole control room (commander, cambions, etc.), then went and did the ruins (above, inside and skeletons), and then went and did the gate at the grove. Gate at the grove went as smoothly, boringly and thoughtlessly as I had feared; stood back throwing boxes and crates and the occasional goblin at the enemies below, from the hill. Fight took about two rounds, no-one but enemies died, and on the whole it was very brainless.

Took lots of screenshots as I went, though if this pans out as a project I want to work on seriously, I'll eventually make a new focus thread where I can collate the screenshots and give some proper dialogue to accompany it.

P.S. Varangian; That *literally* was my first action at the gate - throw the archer goblin on the hill with me at one of the other archer goblins to kill them both outright from the impact damage (except it was more like 60 feet in total travel distance).

P.P.S: Next up we're heading in the direction of the gith patrol, since I'm playing the character more or less to form; she interrogated Zorru with Lae'zel, and now they know where they're going.

Last edited by Niara; 22/06/21 11:23 AM.
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Where are these scrennshots?

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Not prepared yet; I'm gathering them as I go, and I'm intending to put them together in a proper thread where I give some detail along with it ,that could be used as proper feedback, possibly. Depending on how it goes I may get something respectable up in a few days.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Not really a relative comment on wizards per se, but I choose wizard because they're archetypally the weakest for shoving and throwing... Still thought I might throw it in for an additional aside for how poorly made this game's combat mechanics are. It's so ridiculous.
Originally Posted by Niara
Yes, I made the wizard strong; Her name is Ka'chu'ka and she has 17 strength, same as Lae'zel.
So, you've practically made a wizard with a fighter build... And it's the game fault that your fighter-wizard is capable of doing the fighters things? Great work at proving nothing but the fact that D&D allows you to built your character ignoring his class needs and act as a weaker version of another class.

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Shove and throw don't work like this in D&D rules-as-written

Originally Posted by Zellin
So, you've practically made a wizard with a fighter build... And it's the game fault that your fighter-wizard is capable of doing the fighters things? Great work at proving nothing but the fact that D&D allows you to built your character ignoring his class needs and act as a weaker version of another class.

Fighter doesn't even get to shove and throw like it can in Baldur's Gate 3. Niara is talking about how the homebrew mechanics supersede any class's skillset. Choosing the wizard class is an experiment on how over-tuned Larian's homebrew is.

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Maxing one ability score doesn't equal a particular build and strength isn't a class.

There are fair more things that are non fighter in a muscle wizard than there are things that are fighter.

There's no constitution, weapon, shield or armor proficiencies, there's no increased hit points or second wind, there's no fighting styles and no action surge. All these things are what let you do fighter things, not strength. Dex fighters often don't have high strength and they are still fighters, far much so than a muscle wizard.

If you want a wizard to play like a fighter, it takes a 6th level spell, tensers transformation and only lasts 10 mins with concentration.

Your objection isn't accurate. She's basically playing as classless PC with high strength and no other features.

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The issue being shown is with just strength and the homebrew, one doesn't need anything else.
Which is a big problem.

The homebrew is too strong right now that it makes class features semi obsolete. (Technically a Str Thief Rogue would actually be the best shover cause they also homebrewed two bonus actions but I digress.) Normally in 5e class identity is strong enough that you in some way have to play to your class's abilities or apply them to move forward. Here, it is being shown that BG3 can not just be beaten classeless, but is also EASY to do so and not a challenge that people would assume.

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It sounds like what he's really saying is that high strength characters are game breakingly overpowered and need to be nerfed IMMEDIATELY! Maybe cap Strength at 14 or 15 during character creation.

None of my non-strength based characters have been able to throw people around and usually can't even get a successful "Shove" going. It's just a wasted turn so I don't use Shove. I'll throw grease bottles though.

They could nerf Lae'Zel, too, then. Maybe drop her strength to 15 and bump her Con or Dex. (should probably put it into Charisma to be honest. She could use a boost there)

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