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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
If this is the way BG3 is going to be developped I'll abbandon it and wait to the moment the company will be pushed to release dlc that allow to exploit that same things that now they are eliminating.

If things go the way they did with DOSII, the modding community will provide the exploits long before Larian gets around to including them officially. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Some_Twerp753
-Make it a toggle option
This is what I would like.

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Originally Posted by Bufotenina
Who gives about dnd tabletop.

....

If this is the way BG3 is going to be developped I'll abbandon it and wait to the moment the company will be pushed to release dlc that allow to exploit that same things that now they are eliminating. All games on the long run had to do that it will be no different for BG3.


I think EA is not for everyone. You have to be ready to test new systems and give critical feedback without getting upset, knowing that the final game may be quite different than what it is now.

However part of that is the willingness to at least explore those systems before threatening to take your ball and go home.

I mean...the patch isn't even out yet.


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On a different note, long resting requiring resources now opens up the possibility of having narrative decisions based around this in the future, that wouldn't have had anywhere near as much of an impact under the old system.

Find a beggar asking for food on the road? You could give it to them, but you might need it for a long rest later too. Or one of your party members may know a spell that provides that food for them. Or there could be a situation later on where your whole inventory gets temporarily taken, and you'll have to go through a gauntlet of fights while scrounging only enough resources to long rest once or twice before you get everything back. The latter scenario would not be possible at all under the old system, outside of disabling the ability to long rest entirely.

One has always gotta think about how the mechanics interact with each other, instead of examining them in a vacuum.

In actual practicality, I don't think this long rest resource thing will really change things all that much. You can probably still just steal everything you need from merchants. Some people who are really bothered by it should be thankful that they didn't go for the Pathfinder WotR solution, which was to take out rations entirely and replace it with a 'corruption' mechanic that results in stat penalties and an assumed immediate game over for resting too much in non-safe zones (and in actual practice, you'd hit the first stat penalty point for resting 3+ times in a single dungeon, which is pretty lenient).

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I've just opened a thread on the topic of the new rest mechanism, in the Suggestions & Feedback section of the forum.

Not that's it's out of topic here. Every announced feature is on topic. But food for long rest is not the only one. Also, and especially since Larian expressedly asked for feedback on this, we might as well try to not have too many threads about it. It might make things easier for everyone (both Larian who wants to take feedback and players who want to give feedback on this).


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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I'm honestly really happy about this patch because it's a lot of backend stuff that should make future development and balancing go a lot more smoothly. And I finally have reasons to talk about things other than combat for once.

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Thanks for the summary of details, Drath!

Very helpful, and I'm tentatively positive about a lot of what I'm reading here. I'm curious as to whether the disentangling of jump and disengage means that also, by proxy, they've given ba disengage back to Rogues like they should have. I've not watched the panel itself yet, and I did promise to do a full synopsis, but for folks who are interested primarily in the game-related mechanical details, this seems like a very direct and to-the-point summary, so I'll make sure to re-direct folks here, for those who are after this specifically, when I get around to doing mine.

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All very nice changes. It is good to know Swen is aware of the word "immersion", that is certainly the right direction.

I hope day/night cycle is somewhere down the line.

Mini camps are great, but I am still waiting to being interrupted by enemies while in dungeon like in the original.

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Very eager to test out the new rest system and the other various new addition.

I'm seeing some anxiety here about limited resources of rest or food hunting, but from what we saw in the stream, it looks like they've introduced supply packs in for rest purposes. Just speculating, but it's looking very much like the rest equipment in Kingmaker (decently heavy, seems to covers a full rest - likely purchasable at merchants, not very expensive).


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With these lines:

With the diffusion of smartphones and tablets videogames
As usual in these days of social media

It read less like an emotional rant to me and more like a really bad college freshmen English 101 paper.

I didn’t read all of it (can’t be bothered, too much fluff) but I read that you are apparently annoyed that the EA is still “stuck” in act 1. I got news for you: that isn’t going to change.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
On a different note, long resting requiring resources now opens up the possibility of having narrative decisions based around this in the future, that wouldn't have had anywhere near as much of an impact under the old system.

Find a beggar asking for food on the road? You could give it to them, but you might need it for a long rest later too. Or one of your party members may know a spell that provides that food for them. Or there could be a situation later on where your whole inventory gets temporarily taken, and you'll have to go through a gauntlet of fights while scrounging only enough resources to long rest once or twice before you get everything back. The latter scenario would not be possible at all under the old system, outside of disabling the ability to long rest entirely.

One has always gotta think about how the mechanics interact with each other, instead of examining them in a vacuum.

In actual practicality, I don't think this long rest resource thing will really change things all that much. You can probably still just steal everything you need from merchants. Some people who are really bothered by it should be thankful that they didn't go for the Pathfinder WotR solution, which was to take out rations entirely and replace it with a 'corruption' mechanic that results in stat penalties and an assumed immediate game over for resting too much in non-safe zones (and in actual practice, you'd hit the first stat penalty point for resting 3+ times in a single dungeon, which is pretty lenient).

+1 to this.

It also allows them to revise loot values as need be. Silvers and Coppers can be added, merchant prices/values of food can be reduced from golds, all those loot items named "remarkable, magnificent, dazzling, rare, unique" and so on can actually get values greater than a single gold. The addition of creation systems means several smaller food items can be combined to have greater impact when resting. Combining the new die roll system for spell checks with merchants could mean their wares are locked in cabinets and you need to pass high hide/lockpick/disarm/pickpocket checks to actually steal loot - with skill/spell/gear optionally impacting those rolls.

On the rare occasions I tested out stealing from merchants, I found the need to cast a cantrip on rogue, then hide, then move into position, then attempt the pickpocket, then attempt to escape to be unwieldy - now some of those operations can be handled simultaneously with the die system. Honestly, I prefer a game that works of my CHARACTERS skills and abilities - not mine, unlike my character my age and health are NOT that of my chosen character. I have arthritis - my character doesn't.

We already obtain certain "merchant" types at our camp, such as Volo and Skeletor. Why can't our owlbear and pupster handle some hunting chores while we are off adventuring? Maybe one of those thiefling tag-alongs will play hunter-gatherer with the wee beasties as the price for some quest?

Things like improved character stat creation, more body and voice types, additional races - those are things that get added in toward the end of development, as they are far easier to complete when all the back room mechanics are in place. These changes, while not all necessarily ones I would desire, are all on the engine and transmission of the game. The high end stereo, a/c, power windows/doors, blue tooth connections and other flashy extras come later.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
On a different note, long resting requiring resources now opens up the possibility of having narrative decisions based around this in the future, that wouldn't have had anywhere near as much of an impact under the old system.

Find a beggar asking for food on the road? You could give it to them, but you might need it for a long rest later too.

I would love to see something like this; narrative opportunities on top of NECESSARY balancing (D&D balance is heavily reliant on the resting mechanic, and lack of balance leads to lack of realistic choices), that also somewhat disincentivize compulsive abuse of exploity unimmersive mechanics. I foresee my tiresome inner OCD munchkin will be less at odds with my principles of fairness over this. Yes please!

I still think much of this disagreement is likely to be solved by implementing difficulty levels - as soon as possible. The people who hates RNG (despite D&D being a game built on RNG and Larian doing so much to redress the issue) or dislike even balanced limitations like resource management (another D&D foundation), really need an easy-mode. Inversely, the people who crave a more authentic, immersive and balanced D&D experience, should have their hardcore-mode. It's hard to please the polar opposites of each camp of thought any other way.

Last edited by Seraphael; 09/07/21 08:19 AM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
So can you still jump to disengage, or will jumping now provoke a counterattack? I am not a fan of spending an action to position myself, since the main point of combat in this game is to outposition masses of enemies and deny their actions. Any action you spend is not spend on the main combat goal, so it is a net loss.

Jumping will provoke an attack of opportunity.
You'll have to think about your positions not to be engaged. That's how "positionning" works in every good tactical games (>< position doesn't really matter because you can always disengage and teleport and...)

And if you're really engaged you won't HAVE to use your action :
- moving and take the AOO to attack
- use a bonus action spell to disengage (i.e misty step)
- use your rogue cunning action disengage as a bonus action
- attack with the threatened status
- use your action to disengage and loose your action
- use your action to disengage but use metamagic because you're a sorceerer and cast your spell as a bonus action
- and so on.

Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Wait, so is the camp meant to be a base of operations or does it change every night? that would imply that your entire group (animals/skeleton all) are following you around the whole time? That's..odd.

We'll have to see.
I think that the main camp will stay the "main camp" but that they'll introduce "mini camp" in some locations. I guess the followers will stay at the main camp ?

Thx for explaining that further. I have not played since November, but I found the combat experience of BG3 very frustrating. I did not like the meta of constant jumping either, but it did level some of the odd combat quirks. Thing is, actions are a scarce resource for your party. They are not for the enemy, as they usually outnumber you. Secondly, a significant portion of the enemy is ranged, so positioning for them is not as vital either. Battle locations are also often setup as ambushes where enemies come from all sides and when you are not aware of the surroundings the location will likely work to your disadvantage for a certain amount of time. The AI will also slightly focus on your weaker targets or your back line.

Now these are all things that are exploitable, you can always cheese a location, so this is what players will do, but there are other things beyond player control.

The turn order is beyond stupid, as far as I can recall it is random or at least dice are rolled. So, since you are generally outnumbered your mage might not cast, your healer not heal, your tank not block a bottleneck or general positioning is not possible, because everyone moves before you. Say 1 phase spider ports to Gale behind the lines. No worries, Lae'zel can handle that, but Phase spider 2-5 will move before you and will do the same. Additionally spiders might be able to web you, so trying to get there is futile. That's gg and has nothing to do with good positioning. The way turn order is handled in this game is frustrating.
Additionally the rules that apply to the player, do not need to apply to the enemies. Some enemies can move further than you, or might have more actions. Others have skills that do everything your skill does but better (I recall the witch's standard ranged bol has 26m range, while my fire bolt has 18). Enemies might teleport, or teleport and multiply. And you can be sure that status effects or regular ways to deny actions do not work on them. So you have to work in the tight boundaries of rules, the AI does not.

Now this all has little to do with jumping, but jumping enabled you to do the same the AI does, that is generate favourable positions with relative ease, leveling the playing field faster. Spending an action to remedy something that might not have been a mistake on my part, is just a net loss.

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Overall super happy about the changes! I adored their enthusiasm and energy - even if I realize that it's not for everyone.

Those who complain about "BUT THE RESOURCESSS" reminds me of the DnD meme "The DM may NEVER have fun." ... Like no. Just no - let them enjoy themselves! I for one was just happy to see them having a blast. I sincerely believe that this kind of positive energy is much more important to the game than min-maxing resources. A game should be made with love, dedication and a bit nerdiness from the developers - not with the 110% business attitude that so many "meta" companies run nowdays.

I am very surprised about them going firmly on not adding more races, sub-races or classes though as I would have expected them to want them "stress-tested" as well - but either way, seems like they are taking in a LOT of the critics that they receive, so I am more than satisfied!

Way to go, Larian! <3


Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
The turn order is beyond stupid, as far as I can recall it is random or at least dice are rolled.
Isn't that just the initiative roll?


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Originally Posted by Some_Twerp753
Originally Posted by middle tab
Originally Posted by Stabbey
I understand that many people don't like resource management. However, to put it simply, Dungeons & Dragons gameplay is built around resource management.
yes, but not all who will play bg3 are experts in d & d. and not everyone needs this feature. If you think about it, you need resources in d & d and for spells. I played some old games where you had to feed the character. I remember it annoyed.
I see three ways to alleviate it.
-Tie amount to difficulty-lower difficulties require very little, if any, resources
-Add a merchant with unlimited food, to drain cash a little.
-Make it a toggle option

We'll see how things go with the patch (it definitely looks significant!) but we'll have to just see how it goes for now.

Everyone wants a toggle option for this and for that...Lets then also have an option to turn off resting to memorize spells. Or a toggle to turn off all game non important dialogues...etc...and soon what you have left is an empty shell of a game that suits everyone and no one at the same time.
Im in the <make it HARDCORE> camp. Rated R content. Limited inventory slots. Want to camp everyday? Fine then you get - stats plus enemy spawns. Very little but powerful and meaningful magic items. Limited ammo. Time limits. Things cost 10x. Stealing is EXTREMELY difficult.
But in 2021...OOH NOOO its not FuuuN I want to do ThIs whaTever I waaaant ThaatT....lol.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
But in 2021...OOH NOOO its not FuuuN I want to do ThIs whaTever I waaaant ThaatT....lol.
Wanting to do "whatever you want" in itself would be perfectly in line with the spirit of a RPG. even inside the limitations of a computer game, when possible.

The issue is that some people aren't even asking just for that. They don't just want to have a range of options, they also want everything to be easy and convenient for them.
Anything that implies the need to "git gud" to some extent is mostly perceived as some sort of offensive gatekeeping.

"I want to fast travel from any point to any place at will without any drawback, because fuck any sense of place and scale", "I don't want to worry about resources, EVER", "I like overpowered abilities so I don't want limitation on their use", "I want to be free to choose combat, diplomacy or stealth at will and TO BE GOOD AT ALL OF THEM AT THE SAME TIME" etc, etc.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>

The problem is that a toggle for everything is never, EVER going to be well designed because a toggle for "everything" is going to be completely impossible to reasonably test. You get a complete mess of imbalance and broken gameplay. Not to mention the long list of bugs which will happen because different sets of toggles end up causing conflicts with each other.

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I love how toggles are considered an amazing design decision when Solasta and Pathfinder does it, but when people start suggesting it for BG3, it's suddenly a terrible design sin or something?

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I'm a big fan of quality of life stuff. I hated the need to stop and camp in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
The camping setup to improve chances of success = fine.
Having to manually do it every long trip = adds absolutely nothing. Just add it to the travel time and increase/decrease the chance of being attacked.

Having to rest once in a while is fine while adventuring, while travelling the world map not so much.

On the other hand, I saw comments that people loved the camping feature while travelling the world map. So we're all different, and there's no right or wrong.

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