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I just put up the synopsis for the whole panel, but as mentioned, I suggested in the intro that people should come to this thread and discuss the patch details themselves here, if the patch information is what they're interested in.

For my own thoughts on the actual patch notes, I'll snip that part out and repeat it here:

Community Update video:

The community update video is just a straight talk spot with Swen, in a relaxed setting. It opens with Swen greeting us, and then without too much ado jumping into what he has to talk about. It's refreshing and to the point.

We do get a short game shot of a combat-like cutscene in the druid grove between a tiefling and a druid; curious, it seems like a new cutscene, and a new event.

Swen starts by talking about the “Active Roll System”: Now the ability check Roll UI shows the actual DC, the die rolled and your bonuses added. Thank you. This is greatly appreciated by me at least. The UI also is interactive and now lets you add relevant buffing abilities and spells in the moment if you want them, casting spells and using abilities that fit. This is another nice feature; it's a little strange, for the way it implies overt spell casting mid conversation.... buuuut, A game won't ever really be able to respond and react to something like that as a live table can, and this cuts down on the tedious out of conversation pre-buffing immersion break, so, I can give this a fair pass, personally. I think it's a good thing, overall.

Rolls in the middle of conversation are still a big cut away that is damaging for conversation immersions, and with this improvement, I think t looks like that won't change... BUT, this change isn't making that any worse, really, and having it made into a little bit more of an actually interactive moment, rather than a non-interactive break away, kind of makes the break a little bit better, honestly. Kinda.

While this is being discussed, we get another little cut away – this time showing Astarion reading the necronomicon; Astarion, you're pretty but dear gods you're dumb...

Next Swen talks about backgrounds: these will be hidden mini-event actions that lean into Rping your background choice, and will award Inspiration or XP for completing them. This is neat, I like it. I'm optimistic about seeing how it plays out. It sounds like they've added ten of these per background in Act I alone, and that's a big number.

We also get more Shadowheart story updates – as hinted at in the last patch, you can now free her from the pod in the intro. We knew this was coming, and this is almost certainly what Swen was debating on sharing in the stream earlier... and also the 'new secret on the beach' that was teased before that. It's still neat though. My earlier concern for the amount of Shadowheart focus compared to others still stands, but we'll see how it looks.

Next up, we'll be hearing more voice barks for characters! This is good, great even. The absolute silence of them outside of actual conversations was brutal on having them feel like present members of the party. Voice barks are a small thing, but they're atmospheric when done right. I hope there's a setting for how frequently they occur, because too much is bad, and everyone's threshold for how much is too much is different.

Briefly, Swen talks about disentangling Jump and Disengage (by popular demand). This is huge and Swen skips past it very quickly... I get the impression he's not fan, at a personal level. Oh well. It is a big thing, and a good thing, and a much desired thing that many people had actually given up hope on seeing. I'm so glad that they're doing this, and it restores a certain amount of my personal faith. In particular, I'm hoping that they remember to give disengage as bonus back to rogues' cunning action.

After that, we learn that we're getting a button to voluntarily end Concentration – finally. This is something that should never have been overlooked in the first place, but I'm glad it's here now. I'm not sure we needed an extra little white 'x' on the concentration icon, since the icon itself looks good and could be taken as a clickable on its own anyway... but I'm just glad they're fixing this.

Another big, positive change next! They're removing the useless 'knock out' button that dealt a single d4, and giving us a toggle switch for simply being in 'non-lethal' mode. Thank you! This is the correct way to do it, and I'm glad to see this is being fixed as well! Thank you very much. Much appreciated! Now, here's hoping that knocking people out will actually have a notable difference of impact in many places, if you choose it over killing.

Moving on, we come to 'Mini-Camps'. Swen is clearly super excited about this one. When you camp, your camp site will reflect the zone your in, as near as it can. We see brown rock caves, like the owlbear cave, we see underdark mushrooms, we see the crypt; it looks like all of your camp supplies, like your stash, come with you as part of this, though we don't see any camp follower npcs, except in the normal rive-side space, so their status is unknown for now. Even so, this is a huge boon to immersion, and I'm really glad they're doing something about it. It seems like this is a pretty good middle ground between Larian's desire for a fixed base camp, and the immersive realism of camping while adventuring. Can't wait to test it.

On that note, he also mentions a bunch of new camp cutscenes... and we see a much fluffier-looking scratch. Who's a good pupper? *ruffle-ruffle*

As a part of this point, Swen also talks about Camp Resources. This is an experiment they're trialling to see if they can make long resting a more impactful and more measured thing that you need to consider. They want feedback on this in particular. Ostensibly, it seems that when you camp, you have to eat food to get the full benefits from your long rest – don't and don't gain the full benefits (perhaps reduced benefits, it wasn't clear). It looks as though various food items will be 'worth' different amounts of camp supply, currently, and there looks also like there will be a standard 'ration' type object that we can obtain as well. It was mentioned that camping requirements will grow as we level up and as out camp following grows.

Currently, I'd say they still need to drastically reduce the amount of food that's lying around to make this actually meaningful – there's enough food filling up Act I that you could still easily rest between each and every combat encounter and still not run out of food... but we'll see. On the face of it, it's a positive change, but not the sole solution to the long rest issue. More will still need to be done. It's also something that should be optional or graded – and I agree with Drath here, not tied to your difficulty setting.

During this conversation, we get a little cutscene of the mark actually glowing when it's mentioned doing so. Nice! Thanks, that's actually helpful because it grounds the text and the visuals together in a way that they weren't before, so as much as it's a small thin,g it's still a very helpful thing.

That's it for the details: after the three hour stream, the actual community patch update took 6:30 or so.

Does this feel like it was worth the long silence between last patch and this? Well, no... but at the same time, they ARE still building the rest of the game as well, and this patch has got a lot of much desired stuff in it, many of which are things that the community has been saying for awhile, and some of which we'd even given up hope on them listening to, so, overall, I'm actually really happy to hear all of this. I'm excited to see it, and I hope that the trend continues!

At the end, Swen says goodbye by sharing a personal story of his... in which he talks about his experience playing the game on this nearest patch, and seemed to, if I'm not mistaken, actually discover for the first time the value of story immersion while playing, and he seemed to really appreciate it. Maybe this will be the start of something positive?

That's it for the PFH3, I regret watching the three hours of the stream itself, and the grossness that it left me feeling. I wish I hadn't, and could just have the very positive feelings that I have about everything that's actually in the patch itself.

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If Larian is going to tie literally all companion relationship building to the rest system, then they absolutely cannot add a punishment for resting. Also, they'll have to look at every encounter in the game again if they're going to be encouraging people to rest less. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't want to rest, don't rest.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I love how toggles are considered an amazing design decision when Solasta and Pathfinder does it, but when people start suggesting it for BG3, it's suddenly a terrible design sin or something?
i dont think you're quite understanding, hopefully this will clear things up: when solasta and pathfinder does it its an amazing design decision, but the idea of having it in BG3 is a terrible design sin which will ruin video games forever

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This resting system seems quite easy to scale by difficulty level:


  • If you want to play in Story mode, resting would be easy and cost maybe 10 food points.
  • If you play at medium difficulty, resting could cost 40 food points.
  • Hardcore D&D stetting might put resting at 120 food points.
  • Nightmare mode and you'll need 240 food points for a night's rest.



No toggle required, just tie the cost of resting to the difficulty setting that players choose to play at.

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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>

Ridiculous.

The 'bold' approach of "we tested 5 things, and didn't bother to test the rest. It might possibly break your game, we don't know!" is not going to impress customers who pay $60-80 and end up with a save file 10-30 hours in which is not fun or broken.

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Usually, no matter how many "toggles" you may throw in as optional, what you do is playtest for certain specific pre-sets. I.e. "Does the 'default D&D experience' flow nicely enough? What about the super-hard mode? Is it still reasonably doable?".

You don't need to test extensively every possible combination, nor to worry if the super-easy mode is "just super easy" or "super-super-easy" because chances are that the people who picked that option are not interested in having anything resembling a decent challenge to begin with.

If you have a "food-as-resource" system, you playtest to learn how well it works and finely it needs to be tuned, there's no need to investigate how much easier the game gets disabling that feature, because clearly whoever will pick that option is not interested in maintaining things challenging anyway.
And so on.


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Thanks for the summary OP! None of the videos I could find online had closed captioning for me.

As I expected, the patch is underwhelming to me. I readily grant that everything in it is for the better, but in the overall scheme of things relative to the very long list of problems in the game that have been very exhaustively discussed in this forum, this patch only moves the game in a positive direction a tiny little bit. Sure, every little bit helps, but we're still a VERY LONG WAY from this game being good.

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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
This is a minima-list summary of the new features that were announced during the Panel From Hell 3 / LarPG show and that will be shipped with Patch 5.

There will probably be an official list in the Community Update, when Larian publishes one. Whether this will come right after the Panel From Hell 3, or to accompany the release of Patch 5, I do not know.

The Patch will be released on Tuesday 13th July 2021.


Upcoming features for Patch 5.

  • New UI for Ability Checks during cutscenes.
    - Swen called this the Active Roll System.
    - It shows the check's Difficulty Class and the various bonuses that apply : Ability Score Bonus, Proficiency, and other sources (such as spells).
    - It allows to cast spells from within the Ability Check's UI.
    - For what it's worth, it seems as if the dice will look a bit different and no longer be red.
  • Background goals.
    - Larian added specific mini-quests throughout the game, that are related to background.
    - You will get inspiration points by "playing to background". I guess this means at least completing the background-related quests that you find.
    - I believe I heard there will be 130 background goals. Not sure if this is intended for EA, or throughout the game. For context, there are 13 official backgrounds in BG3, so that's 10 per background.
  • Camp setting now matches the place where you sleep.
    Examples mentioned include Underdark, Crypt, Cave, Forest.
  • Rest system : new mechanism, resource management.
    - This puts limits on long rests and start creating a difference between short rest from long rest.
    - If you eat enough food when resting at camp, you get the benefits of a long rest. If not, you get only the benefits of a short rest.
    - Thus, managing supplies (both food and class abilities) becomes a thing. And finding food becomes important.
    - This mechanism is announced as a trial. No guarantee that it will remain in that form in the final version. Swen explicitly said they are seeking feedback on this.
  • Jump and Disengage.
    - Jump and Disengage are now separated.
    - Also, there is now be a hotkey for jump.
    - Disengage now costs an Action. This was described off-handedly by Swen as an answer to a chat question, and is meant to be a trial in Patch 5.
  • Concentration can now be stopped.
  • New gameplay / story content.
    - While Larian announced that the focus of this Patch was on systems, not content, there will be a couple of new things.
    - He mentioned new cutscenes in camp. Check out Scratch and the Owlbear.
    - It is apparently be possible to free Shadowheard in the Nautiloid. Expect her to be the teased surprise on the beach.
    - I think Swen also mentioned new quest permutations.
  • Characters now say things when the player issues them orders.
    - Basically like when you select or give order to units in some RTS games or CRPGs.
    - What they say depend on the order : Move, Hide, etc.
    - Swen called this the point-and-click system. I'm sure someone can find / knows of a better name for this.
  • New combat actions.
    - Non-lethal attacks. This should apparently be activated via a toggle.
    - Disarm.
  • Inspiration point cap.
    - The cap will apparently be 4 Inspiration Points (for the whole party, I'd assume, not per character).
    - Gaining Inspiration Points beyond the cap should bring you XP instead.
  • Visual effects for spells.
    - The VFX team has been working on theming spells to classes, if they are class-specific.
    - I don't remember if this was for Patch 5 or later.
  • Crafting/loot.
    Apparently more crafting is coming.


Swen also did a sort of live AMA (Ask Me Anything), answering some questions from the Twitch chats. So here is additional information, not necessarily related to Patch 5.

  • Act 2 in EA : definitely not.
    - Overall, mechanical content (such as races, classes) and gameplay/story content (new maps, quests, plot progression) is definitely something people should not expect.
  • Reactions will not change in this patch. But it is a something that Swen actually mentioned. And he said they'll be expanding (?). Basically it sounded like they're working on it.
  • Inventory management : they are working on a revamp.
  • Multiclass will come. But much later. Probably.
  • Difficulty level : will come very late.
  • The AI is going to start using/knowing the rules of the game. (Not sure I caught that well.)

We also learned that Swen is a save-scumming expert, though that wasn't as part of the AMA and I doubt this was an intended Patch 5 announcement.

Did I miss the vid? Couldn't find Panel from Hell 3, thought they just posted a community update.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
As I expected, the patch is underwhelming to me. I readily grant that everything in it is for the better, but in the overall scheme of things relative to the very long list of problems in the game that have been very exhaustively discussed in this forum, this patch only moves the game in a positive direction a tiny little bit. Sure, every little bit helps, but we're still a VERY LONG WAY from this game being good.

I'll let anyone decide for themselves if they think the game is already "good enough" or not, but on a personal note one thing I can tell is that with such a small amount of novelties introduced I'm not confident at all I will find the drive to do another playthrough.
I will at very least make an attempt to toy around a bit with it, but I can easily see myself dropping the alpha entirely until something more substantial (a class or a level cap rise) will come into play.


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Originally Posted by Niara
In particular, I'm hoping that they remember to give disengage as bonus back to rogues' cunning action.
I believe they did ...
In that new gameplay that was posted somewhere around here (this one) ... you can see that there is Disengage on Swens hotbar, in right bottom corner. smile

Since i dont know about any way to add those 8 fix abilities to hotbar, i dare to presume that character is Rogue (also, he does Sneak attacks), and this is bonus action disengage. wink

Originally Posted by Alodar
  • If you want to play in Story mode, resting would be easy and cost maybe 10 food points.
  • If you play at medium difficulty, resting could cost 40 food points.
  • Hardcore D&D stetting might put resting at 120 food points.
  • Nightmare mode and you'll need 240 food points for a night's rest.
I agree with others ... this (and many other things) should certainly NOT be defined by general dificiulty settings. :-/

Originally Posted by kanisatha
Sure, every little bit helps, but we're still a VERY LONG WAY from this game being good.
Luckily they still have plenty of time left. smile
And i bet we all can agree, that we will gladly grant them even more (not sure about their funds tho laugh ) to make the game even better. ^_^

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Short coment on my English. smile

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I like that they've added something to (maybe) flesh out our background, since my biggest problem with playing a custom character is what a nonentity they are. A Tavula rasa you might say...sorry

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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by VincentNZ
The turn order is beyond stupid, as far as I can recall it is random or at least dice are rolled.
Isn't that just the initiative roll?

Quite possibly. I really do not know, how it is calculated, but it appears fairly "random", especially with so many enemies on average. I would much rather have either a set rotation, so I know that my mage moves first, then the tank, so I can get some synergy and tactics going, and/or alternating turns, which would help offset the possible imbalances of fighting against many more or very few enemies.

What I really hate is when an emergency arises, and the character that could help the situation just moved and now 6 enemies make their moves first.

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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
Quite possibly. I really do not know, how it is calculated
Initiative is a dice roll affected by your character's bonus (I think your DEX bonus, by default, but it's quite possible that some specific class ability may play an additional role).


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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
I am not a fan of spending an action to position myself, since the main point of combat in this game is to outposition masses of enemies and deny their actions.
It is hardly a matter of “our positioning” if everyone can more freely, all the time without any hindering. You can still disengage and push I think, which should still be greatly powerful (potentially too powerful, but I am speculating). At least engagement will have some value now.

As to moving around - there are still class abilitites/spells that will allow to disengage as bonus action (trigger engagement more safely). I can’t imagine the game being worse off with this change.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Alodar
  • If you want to play in Story mode, resting would be easy and cost maybe 10 food points.
  • If you play at medium difficulty, resting could cost 40 food points.
  • Hardcore D&D stetting might put resting at 120 food points.
  • Nightmare mode and you'll need 240 food points for a night's rest.
I agree with others ... this (and many other things) should certainly NOT be defined by general dificiulty settings. :-/

Absolutely it should.

If you are resting after every battle you want easy mode. I couldn't imagine my spellcasters being able to blast through all their spells for every battle -- it would trivialize combat. (For reference I've never done more than 5 long rests in any play through and went through two with zero long rests.)


If you want more of a challenge you need to manage your resources, but the reality is not everyone enjoys managing their resources.


Tying the number of long rests you can have to difficulty is absolutely the way to go.

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Meh, I get that people are happy that the implemented changes are all in a positive direction, but this seems like a very small amount of stuff compared to the tons of complaints regarding mechanics. Not only that, but this seems like a very small amount of content in general for five months worth of work (I get it's not all on just EA stuff).

I'm also incredibly disappointed to read that we shouldn't expect any more new stuff like classes or races in this EA. That pretty much defeats the entire point of a EA. This means there will be no outside critiques regarding any of the other classes or races. It's become very clear that when left to their own insular thinking, these other classes are going to be vastly disappointing and likely unbalanced or gimicky.

As long as they release the inevitable Baldur's Gate 3 2.0 edition (for free of those who bought this edition) with some of the complaints addressed because they decided to not let their community test the other content, then whatever. I've learned my lesson with Larian regarding EA. Then again, I can't think of a studio who hasn't disappointed since around 2015 or so.

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Originally Posted by Blade238
I'm also incredibly disappointed to read that we shouldn't expect any more new stuff like classes or races in this EA. That pretty much defeats the entire point of a EA. This means there will be no outside critiques regarding any of the other classes or races. It's become very clear that when left to their own insular thinking, these other classes are going to be vastly disappointing and likely unbalanced or gimicky.

They said no new races in EA, so testers still have new race content to look forward to at launch, but all classes will eventually be coming to EA with Multi-classing coming near the end.

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Originally Posted by Alodar
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Alodar
  • If you want to play in Story mode, resting would be easy and cost maybe 10 food points.
  • If you play at medium difficulty, resting could cost 40 food points.
  • Hardcore D&D stetting might put resting at 120 food points.
  • Nightmare mode and you'll need 240 food points for a night's rest.
I agree with others ... this (and many other things) should certainly NOT be defined by general dificiulty settings. :-/
Absolutely it should.

If you are resting after every battle you want easy mode. I couldn't imagine my spellcasters being able to blast through all their spells for every battle -- it would trivialize combat. (For reference I've never done more than 5 long rests in any play through and went through two with zero long rests.)


If you want more of a challenge you need to manage your resources, but the reality is not everyone enjoys managing their resources.


Tying the number of long rests you can have to difficulty is absolutely the way to go.
Just to be sure, i dont disagree that we should get some kind of settings for limitation of long rests ...
I just disagree that it should be set automaticky by choosing dificiulty ... i believe it should be two separate settings.

Lets say that i want challenging fights ...
But i hate this specific kind of resource management, bcs it kinda forces me to have HUGE amount of food all the time and i find it ridiculous ...
Then, lets say that i am one of those strong willed people who can manage to restrict himself to not resting every five minutes of gameplay ...
And finaly, lets say that its for f**k sake my busines how i handle my own gameplay! laugh (no hard feelings, just joking ... but still kinda making a point)

In that case settings of Medium, or even Hardcore would suit me ...
Yet if i simply dont want to deal with this s*it ... all i need to do, is set "amount of resources needed for Long Rest" to "0" ... and VOILA! I have EXACTLY the experience i want. :3

You know that is the beauty, of untied settings ... you can gat what you want ... and i also can get what i want ... in fact everyone can set it just the way they want. wink


Short coment on my English. smile

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Originally Posted by Alodar
Originally Posted by Blade238
I'm also incredibly disappointed to read that we shouldn't expect any more new stuff like classes or races in this EA. That pretty much defeats the entire point of a EA. This means there will be no outside critiques regarding any of the other classes or races. It's become very clear that when left to their own insular thinking, these other classes are going to be vastly disappointing and likely unbalanced or gimicky.

They said no new races in EA, so testers still have new race content to look forward to at launch, but all classes will eventually be coming to EA with Multi-classing coming near the end.
Im sorry, but i heared swen saing "not all races in EA" not "no new races in EA" ...
So maybe we still get some ... i believe at least Half-Orcs, and Dragonborn should be included for certain ... for one, their desing should be seen, so people can express themselves about it ... and for two, at least for Dragonborn, breath weapon should have ben tested a little, bcs messing that up would be incredibly dissapointing. :-/


Short coment on my English. smile

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Just to be sure, i dont disagree that we should get some kind of settings for limitation of long rests ...
I just disagree that it should be set automaticky by choosing dificiulty ... i believe it should be two separate settings.

Lets say that i want challenging fights ...
But i hate this specific kind of resource management, bcs it kinda forces me to have HUGE amount of food all the time and i find it ridiculous ...
Then, lets say that i am one of those strong willed people who can manage to restrict himself to not resting every five minutes of gameplay ...
And finaly, lets say that its for f**k sake my busines how i handle my own gameplay! laugh (no hard feelings, just joking ... but still kinda making a point)

In that case settings of Medium, or even Hardcore would suit me ...
Yet if i simply dont want to deal with this s*it ... all i need to do, is set "amount of resources needed for Long Rest" to "0" ... and VOILA! I have EXACTLY the experience i want. :3

You know that is the beauty, of untied settings ... you can gat what you want ... and i also can get what i want ... in fact everyone can set it just the way they want. wink

I'm not advocating for any restrictions to resting.
The current pre-patch system allows every player to rest as often as they deem necessary.
A minority of players, with the current system, only rested when they were out of resources and in places where it made sense to rest.

The majority of folks instead chose easy mode and rested after every combat and then complained that combat was too easy.


By tying any resting restrictions to difficulty you are making players aware that resting after each combat is easy mode and if they are looking for challenge they will need to rest less often.

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