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The system is nonsensical as I predicted.
It just doesn't work.
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management of a lot of rubbish that would otherwise either be sold or even not picked up.
The need to constantly moving items is not pleasant.
If they want to save food, they should at least significantly reduce their weight or increase the carrying capacity of the character.
At this point, this mechanic, all it does is significantly worsens the fun of the game.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 16/07/21 03:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Riandor
I appreciate those who want to play solo and "play their way", but surely you can understand that the game should by default have a rest mechanism that ensures a degree of balance as per standard? If you want to "bend the rules", then that to me should be a mod. I mean I guess it's no skin off of my nose, but I would rather discuss ways to improve said mechanic, rather than taking it at face value and asking to make it optional.
Nailed it.
People can cheat their way into favoring "immediate convenience above anything else" at the expense of core design as much as they want, as long as it's just a personal thing, but the discussion should be about making the systems in the game meaningful, not how to endorse broken exploits.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management.
Can we stop parroting this crap as if it was a meaningful point of content?
There's hardly any "management" required from the player at the moment.
The system is as automated as it gets.

What's the issue, exactly? Having an anxiety attack at the mere thought of being required to have some supply at hand?

Last edited by Tuco; 16/07/21 03:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Saberem
There are more supply packs available than there are fights currently so ultimately it doesn't change anything. I think supply packs shouldn't be sold from vendors, they should be rare drops only. I'm surviving only on food at the moment and the pacing has been fine, supply packs should be rare and for emergency use only.

I dont agree, forcing players to search every smallest crate for food is a bad idea.
+ 1

I also tried goodberries, and they are useless. They contribute only 1 each. The 4 you get per spell contribute less than 1 bagel does.

It would also be great if spells such as Speak with Animals did not cost a spell slot when used outside of combat.
That's a massive nerf to goodberries, they should account for 10. At the very minimum 4 (10 goodberries being 40).

Originally Posted by Nyloth
I literally didn't feel the difference. The only difference is that now I don't have enough health potions. And I go with two clerics and a vampire who can heal himself a little! Nevertheless, I was able to kill the Hag.
Maybe I'm just used to D&D from tabletop (having a feel for when it's appropriate to short rest), I have a glut of potions (5+ per party member).

Originally Posted by Nyloth
I have always collected food, I just like it, so there is no difference for me. Everything is done quite simply in the camp, I almost always choose "automatic", maybe it will be more difficult later, but it should be like this, shouldn't it?
Yes, it should be easy to accomplish.

For the most part in 5e food and supplies is something for the players to think about, not hold them back. So it should be the situations...
> I prepared and bought goods from a vendor, so we can long rest over the journey..
> the ranger caught some rabbit and the paladin went fishing, now we have food for two nights.

Granted it's a fair point that supply packs themselves might be too easy to find out-of-town in Baldur's Gate 3.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management.
Can we stop parroting this crap as if it was a meaningful point of content?
There's hardly any "management" required from the player at the moment.
The system is as automated as it gets.

What's the issue, exactly? Having an anxiety attack at the mere thought of being required to have some supply at hand?

It's a waste of inventory space. Capacity has been drastically lowered this patch.
A character with 10 strength can only lift 60kg without penalty, where a stupid fish weighs 0.5kg. Before, without collecting rubbish, I had to transfer items quite often between characters, now it's much worse.


It would be nice if you didn't offend people who disagree with you

Last edited by Rhobar121; 16/07/21 04:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
It's a waste of inventory space. Capacity has been drastically lowered this patch.
A character with 10 strength can only lift 60kg without penalty, where a stupid fish weighs 0.5kg. Before, without collecting rubbish, I had to transfer items quite often between characters, now it's much worse.
The food was always there, it's not a new addition.
If anything this patch more than the previous ones makes incredibly easy to "send food to your camp" without a single worry, because the inability to use it as a source of healing makes it even more pointless to carry it around.
This just to stress once more than design decisions have a cascade effect that often goes beyond the intended scope.

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It would be nice if you didn't offend people who disagree with you
I didn't "offend" anyone.
You are the one taking offense over criticism of a point you made.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management.
Can we stop parroting this crap as if it was a meaningful point of content?
There's hardly any "management" required from the player at the moment.
The system is as automated as it gets.

What's the issue, exactly? Having an anxiety attack at the mere thought of being required to have some supply at hand?

It's a waste of inventory space. Capacity has been drastically lowered this patch.
A character with 10 strength can only lift 60kg without penalty, where a stupid fish weighs 0.5kg. Before, without collecting rubbish, I had to transfer items quite often between characters, now it's much worse.
You are aware there is a function called "Send to Camp," right? Where you point at an item, right-click it to get the function with that exact name to come up, and then click on it? And when you go to camp, that item will be in a chest conveniently placed not too far from the center of the campsite?

That sounds like the perfect thing to do for items that, and I know this may be shocking to you, you're only ever going to use in camp.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
It's a waste of inventory space. Capacity has been drastically lowered this patch.
A character with 10 strength can only lift 60kg without penalty, where a stupid fish weighs 0.5kg. Before, without collecting rubbish, I had to transfer items quite often between characters, now it's much worse.
The food was always there, it's not a new addition.
If anything this patch more than the previous ones makes incredibly easy to "send food to your camp" without a single worry, because the inability to use it as a source of healing makes it even more pointless to carry it around.
This just to stress once more than design decisions have a cascade effect that often goes beyond the intended scope.

Quote
It would be nice if you didn't offend people who disagree with you
I didn't "offend" anyone.
You are the one taking offense over criticism of a point you made.


What is the profit from this mechanic now? What is the game better at now?

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Originally Posted by UltimaBACON
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management.
Can we stop parroting this crap as if it was a meaningful point of content?
There's hardly any "management" required from the player at the moment.
The system is as automated as it gets.

What's the issue, exactly? Having an anxiety attack at the mere thought of being required to have some supply at hand?

It's a waste of inventory space. Capacity has been drastically lowered this patch.
A character with 10 strength can only lift 60kg without penalty, where a stupid fish weighs 0.5kg. Before, without collecting rubbish, I had to transfer items quite often between characters, now it's much worse.
You are aware there is a function called "Send to Camp," right? Where you point at an item, right-click it to get the function with that exact name to come up, and then click on it? And when you go to camp, that item will be in a chest conveniently placed not too far from the center of the campsite?

That sounds like the perfect thing to do for items that, and I know this may be shocking to you, you're only ever going to use in camp.

First you have to bother with UI.
Secondly, you still need to carry items from the chest senselessly if you want to rest.
Third, it's a pointless mechanic.
If the food in the chest was automatically consumed while resting, one (maybe two) problems would be solved.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
What is the profit from this mechanic now? What is the game better at now?

This is a nice starting point:
Originally Posted by Tuco
Right, I almost forgot to mention this aspect.
Regardless of the "rest management" (which, let's be real, is not really asking from the player to "manage" a whole lot, currently, given the overabundance of the resource and the how trivial it is to automatize the process) this new mechanic is already a massive improvement if nothing else because it played its part in removing the GIGANTIG BULLSHIT that was using the food as a viable replacement for health potions. Even during combat.

Now, if we could also address the OVER-ABUNDANCE of food with some re-tuning it wouldn't be half bad, since anything that can at least vaguely discourage (if not downright prevent) extensive rest spamming counts as a net mechanical improvement in my book.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
The system is nonsensical as I predicted.
It just doesn't work.
At the moment, nothing is limited, you can rest the same as before, the only thing that has been added to the game is the unnecessary management of a lot of rubbish that would otherwise either be sold or even not picked up.
The need to constantly moving items is not pleasant.
If they want to save food, they should at least significantly reduce their weight or increase the carrying capacity of the character.
At this point, this mechanic, all it does is significantly worsens the fun of the game.

This is exactly what i came hear to say, so thank you Rhobar. If people want to super hard no rest mode then give it to them. Stop trying to ruin the game for people looking for story driven experience. Because personally i never understood what is wrong with the rest system before, being able to rest when want didn't magicly win the game for you.


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Originally Posted by Macxd
This is exactly what i came hear to say, so thank you Rhobar. If people want to super hard no rest mode then give it to them. Stop trying to ruin the game for people looking for story driven experience. Because personally i never understood what is wrong with the rest system before, being able to rest when want didn't magicly win the game for you.

The fact that "you don't understand" (and to be honest I doubt you ever made a proper effort to try) doesn't mean that the problem didn't exist.

D&D as a system is entirely build around the idea of scarcity and resource management.
"Do I use the spell now or do I save it for bigger threats later?"
"Do I drink a costly potion or do I attempt to survive the fight without it and save it for another time?"
"Do I have enough food/time/security to afford a rest in this spot and recharge my resources?"
Etc, etc.

It's not even a marginal side note, it's a cornerstone of the entire system that several classes are balanced around. You have warlocks and martial classes giving up on the potential burst damage" because they can afford to be low maintenance as a counterpoint. Making unlimited long rest with no drawbacks trivial to achieve is an implicit nerf to their usefulness compared to classes that with enough resources can do virtually everything (like mages).

You are ranting against the "super-hardcore" but what you are actually asking for is for a game with no structure or mechanics in place just to serve your immediate convenience.
"Oh no, it's inconvenient to me that I can't get anything I want at any given time".
Well, guess what? Limitations, boundaries and inconveniences are precisely what define a game. You are supposed to use your tools to overcame these limitations, not to have a caterpillar paving a highway in front of you to make sure no pebble would ever "obstruct" your path.

It's all fine, anyway, I'm confident there will be a "Just the story" aka "braindead mode" for the people who will prefer it, when the time comes.
DOS and 2 had it, no reason to fear this one won't.

Last edited by Tuco; 16/07/21 05:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by Macxd
Stop trying to ruin the game for people looking for story driven experience.

I'm pretty sure the full release will have a Story Mode a la DOS 2 where your characters get incredible permanent buffs and your enemies get horrible nerfs and make resting completely unnecessary anyway.

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I'll be honest, I quite enjoy the rest system. (Also I feel quite satisfied to learn that I was right when I guessed that you would be able to partial rest even with enough food for a full rest) I've just made it to the druid grove and have been poking around there for a bit and thus far, inventory management hasn't been a big deal. Though I agree that food should be useable for long rests from the camp stash, I'm sure that'll come along in a future patch. Plus I personally find it really satisfying in a weird way. I think I might actually like resting *more* now for some weird reason. Probably helps that I always religiously collected every piece of food anyway out of fear that I'd need it.

I also don't understand why people are calling this mechanic "hardcore" or talking about "no rest modes." I like it and I am very, very far from a hardcore gamer. I am very much here for story first and so far I don't feel like it's interfering with my enjoyment of the story at all. So from my perspective there's been a moderate net positive and I hope they keep iterating on this sytem until they reach something satisfying for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Macxd
This is exactly what i came hear to say, so thank you Rhobar. If people want to super hard no rest mode then give it to them. Stop trying to ruin the game for people looking for story driven experience. Because personally i never understood what is wrong with the rest system before, being able to rest when want didn't magicly win the game for you.

The fact that "you don't understand" (and to be honest I doubt you ever made a proper effort to try) doesn't mean that the problem didn't exist.

D&D as a system is entirely build around the idea of scarcity and resource management.
"Do I use the spell now or do I save it for bigger threats later?"
"Do I drink a costly potion or do I attempt to survive the fight without it and save it for another time?"
"Do I have enough food/time/security to afford a rest in this spot and recharge my resources?"
Etc, etc.

It's not even a marginal side note, it's a cornerstone of the entire system that several classes are balanced around. You have warlocks and martial classes giving up on the potential burst damage" because they can afford to be low maintenance as a counterpoint. Making unlimited long rest with no drawbacks trivial to achieve is an implicit nerf to their usefulness compared to classes that with enough resources can do virtually everything (like mages).

You are ranting against the "super-hardcore" but what you are actually asking for is for a game with no structure or mechanics in place just to serve your immediate convenience.
"Oh no, it's inconvenient to me that I can't get anything I want at any given time".
Well, guess what? Limitations, boundaries and inconveniences are precisely what define a game. You are supposed to use your tools to overcame these limitations, not to have a caterpillar paving a highway in front of you to make sure no pebble would ever "obstruct" your path.

It's all fine, anyway, I'm confident there will be a "Just the story" aka "braindead mode" for the people who will prefer it, when the time comes.
DOS and 2 had it, no reason to fear this one won't.

this is so unnecessarily passive-aggressive towards someone who doesn't want to play video games the way you think they should play them.

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
this is so unnecessarily passive-aggressive towards someone who doesn't want to play video games the way you think they should play them.
Ok.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
I literally didn't feel the difference. The only difference is that now I don't have enough health potions. And I go with two clerics and a vampire who can heal himself a little! Nevertheless, I was able to kill the Hag. I have always collected food, I just like it, so there is no difference for me. Everything is done quite simply in the camp, I almost always choose "automatic", maybe it will be more difficult later, but it should be like this, shouldn't it?
The bolding is a reason I like this patch; I suspected that healing potions were not in enough supply, healing via food being a crutch to compensate. The question in my minds right now (and it's going to take time to work through) is "Were players simply not resting as much as they were expected/supposed to" (you could get through a LOT of the map before your first long rest with certain party compositions) or "There just isn't enough healing"? If it's a healing issue, that can now be tweaked because the problem is exposed.
As for the camping, imo so long as it's a difficulty related option and/or you can keep the supplies coming (either via buying or outright designating someone for hunting when you camp, like in Pathfinder: Kingmaker)than in terms of the supply system I'm pefectly fine with this patch, just need to see what else falls out of the tree now this has shaken it, as it were

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It would be much better if you could dedicate specific companion that is suppose to get specific items by clicking on "autoloot" ... its anoying to send every single item separately. -_-

Gimme that, and i shall be perfectly OK with this system. :3


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
It would be much better if you could dedicate specific companion that is suppose to get specific items by clicking on "autoloot" ... its anoying to send every single item separately. -_-

Gimme that, and i shall be perfectly OK with this system. :3
Indeed. Being able to automatically send every type of X to camp (and in supplies case, be useable from the chest) would be great

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Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
this is so unnecessarily passive-aggressive towards someone who doesn't want to play video games the way you think they should play them.
To be honest it isn't about how anyone feels the game should be played vs how you think it should be played, it is about debating how we get to being closer to D&D /BG1&2 mechanics and feeling. BG1&2 added risk to resting, you felt you had to rest because of fatigue (on top of spell slots and HP), but do it in the wilderness and you ran the risk of an encounter. There was no easy mode (that I remember).

Again, the system of gathering food and consuming it to rest "might" be annoying to some and that's fine, I am not here to tell anyone what they enjoy or don't, but I will defend the principle of the game having tighter mechanics around resting so that the Meta for the game doesn't become 3x Mage and 1x Cleric for click and win. D&D is balanced around those who can travel further and fight longer vs those with insane power, but who need to rest. Take away that balance and what is the point?

Frankly on top of reducing food in the wilderness, I would even add fatigue back into the series, because whilst you're resting constantly, I'm not resting at all and missing all the cut scenes (now I know that I should rest to see them, but new players won't), but that's just me.

Regardless, the EA for me should represent the "Normal" level, include as many mechanics as possible for us to test and debate and IF you want an EASY mode going forward, that's fine, but that shouldn't be part of EA at this stage IMVHO.

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