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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
But people are grading Solasta on a curve because it's a tiny, tiny studio operating without a full DnD license . They've produced an amazing prototype -- what could they do if they had Larian's writing team and a full license?
Yeah grading something is always going to be relative to one's expectations. And that then means grading BG3 as a game being made with massive investments in money, time, and human resources. And especially relative to those expectations, BG3 falls short big time, and that's why it's such a huge disappointment for me. As for BG3 ever becoming a "classic," no that won't happen either. For me a classic is a game that brings together all the various strands of potential fans in agreement that the game is awesome. This is precisely what the original BG games did: they were extremely successful in UNITING the fanbase even while also bringing in a huge number of new fans. The #1 characteristic of BG3, however, is how successful it has been in DIVIDING the potential fanbase, and that is what it will be remembered for first: half the fanbase loving it and the other half hating it. And that is a great pity. It did not have to be this way.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
But people are grading Solasta on a curve because it's a tiny, tiny studio operating without a full DnD license . They've produced an amazing prototype -- what could they do if they had Larian's writing team and a full license?
Yeah grading something is always going to be relative to one's expectations. And that then means grading BG3 as a game being made with massive investments in money, time, and human resources. And especially relative to those expectations, BG3 falls short big time, and that's why it's such a huge disappointment for me. As for BG3 ever becoming a "classic," no that won't happen either. For me a classic is a game that brings together all the various strands of potential fans in agreement that the game is awesome. This is precisely what the original BG games did: they were extremely successful in UNITING the fanbase even while also bringing in a huge number of new fans. The #1 characteristic of BG3, however, is how successful it has been in DIVIDING the potential fanbase, and that is what it will be remembered for first: half the fanbase loving it and the other half hating it. And that is a great pity. It did not have to be this way.

Could I borrow your Time Machine? I need to make a few stops.


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It would probably be a classic for this generation that will have BG3 as reference. The same now when you hear that Fallout 3 is much better than Fallout 1/2.

Time changes.

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I have shift work so played late and now it is weekend.

Solasta gameplay this weekend.
+ I updated graphic card drivers and now much more stable has not crashed after that perhaps that was the issue...
+ I like that you can roll stats that is one MAJOR advantage over BG3.
+ I like there is DUNGEON CREATOR well not that I am creator myself but perhaps one day I play what others have created.
+ Fine the main combat music is sometimes good.
+ Day/Night cycle add some realism.
+ Some random fights on fast travel map I would wish this game to me more hack &slash and less riddles.
+ I must say why does not BG3 have same default controls for BG3 as Solasta?
Q an E button to turn camera Solasta has better camera control then BG3 as default.
- New bugs found. From inventory has disapparead magical arrows... what the fuck.
- Same old tedious game play go there find some annoying riddle do that go there.
- Will not spoil main story but it is starting to get repetitive.
- Still level 6 and not even halfway to level 7... (unless last random encounter on fast map travel added lots of exp which I doubt).
- Well what the fuck so I wanted to return to main city from where you basically start the first big city.
It says I can not do it must continue my quest with...will not say since SPOILER.
Well so much for player freedom here we go again.
- In new newest place I could not figure out how to use the teleport portal but it could be because game will not let you
travel to main start city.
- Same ugly doll characters.
- Boring..
- This game is so average entertainment it is an effort for me to play even 4 hours/week so much other good entertainment.
My vote: 6.9/10 (subject to possible change as always)

For those who have not played Solasta max level in Solasta is 10, but since you need more exp to reach higher levels then in the beginning when it is fast level up then that I am level 6 is not far yet.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 15/08/21 02:22 AM.
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Seriously, after having played through it for about 100 hours and coming back to BG3, I'd say that if Larian made some QOL changes based on mechanics in Solasta, BG3 would be a near perfect 5e dnd game. Going from a indie game to a AAA game shouldn't feel this... jank.

Here's a list of just a few things they can add:

- Camera elevation controls: This problem is a hold over from D:OS2. The camera is way too clunky and the main problem is the player has no way to control the elevation save scrolling over some terrain until it randomly decides to move higher/lower. Solasta has a simple solution: holding shift and scrolling up/down increases/decreases elevation. They also use this for moving on the z-axis i.e for flying or walking on walls. It would be pretty useful for making mage hand work like it should and grabbing unreachable things too.

- Readying actions: Considering how large maps are in BG3 this feels like a given. You often run out of things to do because of movement limitations and end up wasting an action. In Solasta they have a basic implementation of this where you can choose to hold an attack until an enemy gets in range, so you can at least "overwatch" à la X-com. Larian, being a bigger studio, could probably implement a whole "if x do y" system that would at least be comparable to table in terms of options.

- Formation: This isn't really a Solasta specific thing and i already know a lot of people are asking for it but damn, the ally a.i. pathing is horrible. Sometimes they just shuffle back and forth and run into hazards for no reason or just straight up get separated from the group. Let them walk in single file at least...

- Fully Party at character creation: You can do this in the older BG games. You can even do it by running 4 instances of the BG3, going into multiplayer and disconnecting the other 3 characters. Unlike D:OS2 it would work with the story too to have 4 custom characters start the game together.

- Making Magic Missile not miss with LoS: Self-explanatory. Honestly, even if it has to go through terrain, just do it. Otherwise it just defeats the purpose of the spell.

- Detect Magic and Identifying objects: I know this is divisive but I like the mechanic just for finding loot and DnD accuracy.

I didn't put reactions as pop-ups because I know the devs have said that they don't want it to interrupt game flow and I agree, toggles work just fine although some kind of manual pause where you can change toggles right before a reaction/react-able state would be pretty useful. In fact, real time pause (not just turn-based mode) would be useful overall.

EDIT: I thought of a few new ones after going back to Solasta for a bit.

- Climb and dropping off ledges without jumping: Being able to scale walls of jump one square off of them depending on the height instead of having to go around solves a lot of wasted movement problems and makes athletic checks more useful. Acrobatics and athletics, in general, need more uses in combat/exploration.

- Select all button: Except in BG3 it would be chain/unchain all. It would be super convenient to go from individual to group movement fast since BG3 doesn't have cursor selection like other DnD games. Even player presets like char 1+3 and Char 2+4 or char 2+3+4 and 1.

- Not automatically using your offhand if you're dual-wielding: I didn't think it would matter, but after playing Solasta again, being able to just attack with your mainhand without a follow-up and still have a bonus action is useful sometimes and it's DnD accurate because IIRC the follow-up attack is optional. Make it a toggle at least.

Last edited by Fartlord232; 18/08/21 12:36 AM.
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I want to say that the camera elevation controls have been driving me insane now that I'm getting back into BG3. There are now far too many times that I send a character to go climb a ladder or something, and my camera ends up having great difficulty following them because it keeps getting stuck at the bottom of the cliff. At one point I couldn't accurately aim a Shatter spell at the Harpy group that had leapt up to the cliff above where I was, because the camera refused to pan up above. The end result was that I accidentally nailed Shadowheart alongside the Harpies in the AoE as a result of that. It's pretty maddening.

I also suspect that this has something to do with the camera seemingly being locked to a certain distance around your active party member. I distinctly recall that there was no such limit in the earlier patches. I suppose it makes sense and it's a way to differentiate this game further from D:OS2 (where you could send your camera everywhere), but the current limit is pretty stifling, especially when it comes to the aforementioned cliffs.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 16/08/21 08:45 AM.
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I don't think BG3 has a real Z-axis. Flying creatures mechanically jump and can't hover. A cone shaped AoE spell can't hit targets that are on a different level of elevation. They need to fix this or Fireball and every big AoE will be really weird and frustrating to use with all the verticality.

Distance seems to be measured differently if you're aiming up or down. Even with spells like Sacred Flame or Hold Person that don't fire a projectile.

"Too high!"

..what?

The camera is infuriating in BG3 for sure.

Last edited by 1varangian; 16/08/21 09:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't think BG3 has a real Z-axis.
There seems to be something to that effect. With githianky jump I can't even makes most of it - camera refuses.to reach to places that my character theoretically could jump. I think something needs to be done. Scrolling through hight layers is a staple for a while now - BG3 needs something to that effect to make its verticality not be a burden.

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+1 to all of these things . The ready action would be really cool especially since it wouldn't really interrupt the flow of combat and still provide some more depth to it. And PLEASE Larian, let us split up our team without the nonsensical chaining system.

Last edited by Boblawblah; 16/08/21 12:42 PM.
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Would like to add in 3D measurement tools for spell areas from Solasta are amazing, and Larian needs to implement it. Thunderwave is supposed to be a 15 foot cube, not a weird shape on the ground. Burning Hands is supposed to be a 15 foot cone...not the same weird shape on the ground. This applies to pretty much all the AoE spells or spells that have a specific shape to them like cones, cubes, pillars, etc.

Also, when a ranged attack misses, why can't it just...miss? Why does our character have to do this weird dodge animation for literally every single attack that comes their way. It feels a bit better now that cantrips and such don't just explode into fire in their face and damage them anyway like they used to when they applied surfaces, but it's still kinda weird that rather than that arrow simply missing all of our characters seem to have the superhuman reflexes required to dodge out of the way of it.

As for the reactions, maybe not a pop up like Solasta has (though I personally rather liked it, let me pick and choose if I used my reactions and smites and such or whether I saved them) but we need something better than a toggle for things like Paladin smites that will be coming eventually, and for reaction spells like Hellish Rebuke which is already in game. Having to cast it before hand kind of makes it being a "reaction" pointless, especially if they ever get around to putting the Shield spell for wizards in. Wizards are supposed to be able to realize the attack will hit them, but shield will make it miss, and then cast it to protect themselves but with the current way of handling it, your wizard would have to waste a spell slot to cast shield on their turn and then just hope that it's actually needed. Wasting a spell slot to cast shield and then none of the enemies even target them would be insanely annoying considering the way it's supposed to work.

Also dear god yes please do something about the AI character pathing Larian. The owlbear cave drives me mad every time because I go down to the Selune shrine, go back up, and inevitably one of my characters (usually Gale since he hangs out in the back) comes up the ladder after me while shadowheart is still standing there, and then turns around and goes right back down! Then he stands there like a dolt until I take control of him and tell his dumb ass to get up the ladder.

Last edited by Pupito; 16/08/21 02:04 PM.
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Great points!

I also wish the camera behaved like a proper camera, it's absolutely maddening! I also miss detect magic and all the rest. Just had to pile on, especially that last post about the shape of spells. Also ranged misses! A miss often looks and sounds like a hit in this game, esp the crit miss. All the animations suggest contact, except for the dodgy dodges I guess, but that kinda looks like a hit too. Pathing woes are probably the most noticeable for me as well.

I don't think they really need to look to Solasta to get with the program on that stuff, but then again maybe they do? Cause left to their own devices it doesn't feel like we're getting this stuff. Getting upstaged by a French indie studio with like 14 employees. How did they let that happen?

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im not sure what it is about the camera that annoys me so much. Is it because of the altitude? it seems to get stuck on the height your character is on or something. Whatever it is, it's super annoying about 20% of the time and fine for the rest.

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Yeah, I don't know I'm like extra salty this morning for some reason, but they basically created a camera that is incapable of looking above the horizon line.

It's not so much that they didn't give us a Z axis at all, but because we can only swing up along the Z axis and not down.

As if the cinematographer was wearing a neck brace or something lol.

Its mildly infuriating, even if it's only 20% of the time, that 20% is where I live with it and the only thing I remember after hitting quit to desktop hehe

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Larian did this in response to the speed run video. Obviously it has created other issues with the camera.

But the intent on the new camera limitations stems from a video where someone completed EA in mere minutes by camera bugging and using jump + featherfall

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Originally Posted by gaymer
Larian did this in response to the speed run video.

oh goodness, never try to balance around speed runners lol. They're smarter than you and will beat you every time.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
im not sure what it is about the camera that annoys me so much.
I have at least a couple of things.

- The maximum distance being too close to the ground.
- The way it "adapts to the ground altitude" on its own rather than giving you an independent point of view.
- The fact that it has this weird "camera deformation effect" that doesn't really maintain an abstract and well proportioned perspective, but instead zooms considerably things that are closer to the camera compared to the ones lower on the ground.

Last edited by Tuco; 16/08/21 02:48 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Why did you start a thread about comparing Baldurs Gate 3 and Solasta without just buying Solasta and playing it?

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Originally Posted by tetsuoinfernal07
Why did you start a thread about comparing Baldurs Gate 3 and Solasta without just buying Solasta and playing it?
Well I wanted to know if it is worth to buy Solasta. I had only got impression from reviews. No no more questions thank you! I could as well ask every thread OP why they opened a thread.

Solasta was stupid buy.... I am not even sure I want to play through it...

Last edited by Terminator2020; 17/08/21 04:15 PM.
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+1 to most of this. The camera controls are especially annoying to me. The detect magic part doesn't really matter much to me though.

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+1

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