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The one thing I have really enjoyed about Camping 2.0 is the "mini-camp" system, where your background will often better suit the area you were in at the time of the long-rest. Helps so much with immersion. So much so, that I'd like to see it be the norm.....so that your long-rest background area will *always* match the location you were in when you took your long-rest. Just a thought.

Also, any chance you can have a minimum number of supplies needed to even manage a partial Long-rest?

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I agree it’s nice, and would be great to see it all the time.

I don’t think any supplies should be used for partial rests though. You can still sleep without eating and feel better. Sure you’re not as well rested but it’s better than no sleep.

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Originally Posted by Luminary
I agree it’s nice, and would be great to see it all the time.

I don’t think any supplies should be used for partial rests though. You can still sleep without eating and feel better. Sure you’re not as well rested but it’s better than no sleep.

OK, lets say, then, that I'd like it to be a Difficulty Option, Still, not a deal-breaker for me....just having supplies needed for a proper full-rest is such a great thing IMHO.

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Personally, I hope we do get a more permanent home location, but that minicamps continue through the entire game. It'd be nice to be able to go to the home, switch out the party and a few backup party members, and then journey out with minicamps and exploring.
Or that's how I imagine that.

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Given the current EXTREME over-abundance of supplies I doubt a "partial rest" is something that anyone will ever actually need to do.

Even now that I just reached the goblin camp I have already enough supplies stored to do 15 long rests or so which are already three/four times more than the ones I made in my entire previous game.
And I'm sure I'll gather a whole lot more of them across an entire playthrough.

P.S. Back on topic, "mini-camps" are... an acceptable compromise and an improvement on what we had before, but I still think "contextual" camps placed/placeable in the "real" map would have been a far more elegant (and arguably far more cost-effective) solution.

Last edited by Tuco; 18/07/21 12:41 PM.

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i have the opposite impression on mini-camps. Why does my whole entourage show up at all of my mini-camps? it's ridiculous. So i have a bunch of pets, a weird skeleton, etc all following me around everywhere I go? it's ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Personally, I hope we do get a more permanent home location, but that minicamps continue through the entire game. It'd be nice to be able to go to the home, switch out the party and a few backup party members, and then journey out with minicamps and exploring.
Or that's how I imagine that.

+1
Same, I love this new system. We have our Home Base for each Act where we can toss our weird decorations and crazy stuff - and even pack stuff up in our camp chests for the next location to preserve them, but we do Mini-camps whenever we are in a dungeon/building/alternate plane where we can camp. Much better immersion!


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Well it certainly is a progress. Still an actual home would have been nice as well, like the PoE stronghold or the BG2 class location. I honestly do not see the need for a camp at all though, just give me one spot where I can go to catch up on main story events and keep companion interaction on the main map. Especially since some companions might disappear after Act I, so the whole point of the screen is lost on me. Just make a resting cutscene and let me continue.

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They may need to tweak dialogues. While camping in the dank crypt, Astarion mentions sleeping in the dirt in a forest. It's a bit weird since they're in a crypt. But overall love it.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i have the opposite impression on mini-camps. Why does my whole entourage show up at all of my mini-camps? it's ridiculous. So i have a bunch of pets, a weird skeleton, etc all following me around everywhere I go? it's ridiculous.
Agreed ...
I would not mind inactive characters to get there, if they have conversation unlocked ... as long as they would start the sentence with "finaly i catched you". laugh

But the rest is really weird.

But dont get me wrong here! I like the idea of mini camps ...
I like the suroundings, it looks nice, it have better immersion ... but it would be much better, if our actual camp would stay where it is, and we would just resting outside.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 18/07/21 03:18 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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All minicamps should have access to the camp cache to where you send your stuff to imo, some minicamps dont have the box! Food gets heavy so I very often send my food to the box.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i have the opposite impression on mini-camps. Why does my whole entourage show up at all of my mini-camps? it's ridiculous. So i have a bunch of pets, a weird skeleton, etc all following me around everywhere I go? it's ridiculous.

They come with you to the mini-camp? That is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i have the opposite impression on mini-camps. Why does my whole entourage show up at all of my mini-camps? it's ridiculous. So i have a bunch of pets, a weird skeleton, etc all following me around everywhere I go? it's ridiculous.

That is why I want us to get a main base so that the entire entourage doesn't follow us. Whereas after we get a main base we are limited in our minicamps to our active party members, maybe 2 backup party members, and possibly a couple service providers that make sense to travel.

Everyone else would start to populate that main base which would become the hub for the rest of the entire game. Any recruited non origin companions, merchants who want to go there, and NPCs like Volo or the Talkative Skeleton would reside in that base, fixing up their sections and making it feel like a proper homebase. And when people are dismissed they do things there. For example gale and other wizards could occupy the library researching and studying things, Halsin or another druid would be in a garden with plants, etc etc.

And when you want to switch people out you go to that main base and do just that.

Then again I am someone who wants a ton of non-origin companions, and having a base slowly populate with them would be beyond awesome to me.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 19/07/21 05:48 AM.
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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Personally, I hope we do get a more permanent home location, but that minicamps continue through the entire game. It'd be nice to be able to go to the home, switch out the party and a few backup party members, and then journey out with minicamps and exploring.
Or that's how I imagine that.

A permanent home would be a great feature besides homage to the original series stronghold mechanic. I feel Larian should focus on refining the "mini-camp" system further before adding a new feature though. A stronghold mechanic would be more appropriate for a higher level party perhaps in a DLC or sequel.


Originally Posted by Tuco
Given the current EXTREME over-abundance of supplies I doubt a "partial rest" is something that anyone will ever actually need to do.

Even now that I just reached the goblin camp I have already enough supplies stored to do 15 long rests or so which are already three/four times more than the ones I made in my entire previous game.
And I'm sure I'll gather a whole lot more of them across an entire playthrough.

Certainly patch 5 did a lot to address player criticisms and the camping system is not only more immersive, as you touch upon it's also become a balancing mechanic. This balancing mechanic needs to be balanced better; it's currently broken much like the gold economy. But whereas the economic balance really doesn't matter all that much, resting balance is absolutely vital in D&D. It seems to me Larian hates any limitations on perceived player agency - even if this means screwing over balance (which in turns limits real player choices). Consequently, I suspect the balancing limitations will be more psychological than substantive/real for practical purposes even after the abundance of camp supplies gets adjusted.

One good way to balance it while providing even more player agency and immersion, would be to make it a tradable resource and also provide narrative ties. For instance being able to sell or donate supplies to the Tiefling refugees, merchants and others for approval, reputation, gold and xp bonuses. Thus limiting your own supplies and your own ability to spam long rest and thereby break balance. This could potentially also affect story outcomes further down the line. It could even be a more moral option and a counter-balance to the current broken pickpocket system that incentivises exploitive mechanics (now you can afford buying the items instead of stealing them without consequence). No longer do you feel punished for roleplaying something other than an immoral kleptomaniac.

Last edited by Seraphael; 19/07/21 10:48 AM.
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I do not see how camping is immersive. It is just a gameplay necessity due to D&D mechanics and overcomplicated through narrative choices. It was Larian's choice to tie narrative progress to the camps and hence constant camping is needed unless you want to lock yourself out of content. Yeah it is a balance mechanic, but noone forces you to camp, unless again for story reasons. Gameplay wise it would make more sense to either got he Obsidian route with per turn/encounter skills and little need for rest, instead of making camping more of a hassle and more of a necessity for narrative reasons.

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" would be to make it a tradable resource and also provide narrative ties. For instance being able to sell or donate supplies to the Tiefling refugees, merchants and others for approval, reputation, gold and xp bonuses."

You can actually donate items to merchants for increased approval. Seems that it works the same way as DOS2.

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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
I do not see how camping is immersive. It is just a gameplay necessity due to D&D mechanics and overcomplicated through narrative choices. It was Larian's choice to tie narrative progress to the camps and hence constant camping is needed unless you want to lock yourself out of content. Yeah it is a balance mechanic, but noone forces you to camp, unless again for story reasons. Gameplay wise it would make more sense to either got he Obsidian route with per turn/encounter skills and little need for rest, instead of making camping more of a hassle and more of a necessity for narrative reasons.

If I’m not mistaken.. the game lacks a day/night cycle. I think this could be a potential solution for creating a more natural flow between necessity and immersion. I also get why moving the narrative forward waits until camp at least for certain story lines.. I also wouldn’t want to talk about my fucking past while we’re in the middle of raiding a goblin camp.

I personally love the camping system and would prefer it over any house or main base option until we made it to a major city. It’s a major part of my personal theatre of the mind experience. I can see why others wouldn’t be a fan though.

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Originally Posted by VincentNZ
I do not see how camping is immersive. It is just a gameplay necessity due to D&D mechanics and overcomplicated through narrative choices. It was Larian's choice to tie narrative progress to the camps and hence constant camping is needed unless you want to lock yourself out of content.

Let me count (some of) the ways:

1. The current camping system that now reflects the changing terrain is MUCH more immersive that simply spamming long rest and being magically transported between a never changing camp area and the area you initiated the camp.

2. It is MUCH more immersive to regain health by using food/drink through camping than it is to eat 10 apples and not only keep the doctor away, but to rise from the brink of death to full vigor in seconds.

3. It is MUCH more immersive (besides balancing) that you can't simply spam long rest (assuming Larian balances the camp supply economy) and each time be reminded it is as the world is frozen and no time had passed.

As for the last point, to address long rest spam, Larian would do well to balance camping by emulating the passage of time and reasonable AI behavior. For instance, taking a long rest while killing your way through an extended area of a united enemy force (ie. goblin village), could lead to the enemy being placed on alert. This could mean no sleeping targets, larger but fewer units, even reinforcements (with similar amount of xp total), ambushes and traps being set. This would make the camping more immersive indirectly as well as provide much needed balancing - without removing player agency. In fact adding agency (and immersion and balance) with the added tactical choice of whether to rest or press on. Knowing each choice has an upside and a down side.

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Yeah it is a balance mechanic, but noone forces you to camp, unless again for story reasons. Gameplay wise it would make more sense to either got he Obsidian route with per turn/encounter skills and little need for rest, instead of making camping more of a hassle and more of a necessity for narrative reasons.

Not sure what you mean here, and I'm not at all familiar with the "Obsidian route" or how that would be relevant in a D&D-game. Resting NEEDS be made a balancing factor, or Larian would NEED to so heavily change the system as to make it functionally not-D&D. Story-wise, you are strongly incentivized NOT to camp. Illithid tadpoles are eating your brains, Gale is a ticking time-bomb, Astarion sees you as a snack, etc. Then when you learn the entire system is basically a shallow sham, that there are no consequences, there is precious little balance, that the world do not at all react to the passage of time...this really is detrimental - if you at all care about a deeper, holistic and immersive experience.

How is the current system "a hassle" to you? It is objectively streamlined, and I suggested ways to streamline it further in my previous post. How is it more of a hassle than having loads of "magically healing food items" fill up your inventory? How would the immersive moral roleplaying opportunity that doubles as a balancing mechanic; ie. being given the opportunity to donate supplies (or sell, or refuse) to the Tiefling refugees and thereby limiting your own, be a hassle to you? RPG players always lament actions not having consequences, and here we have a chance to give the player agency and bundle it in with needed balance as well. What's not to like? That said, I would agree that the camp shouldn't be used so heavily for narrative purposes as is currently. I would love for some of the camp conversations to organically occur outside of the camp-setting. You know...for immersion's sake wink



Originally Posted by dza101
You can actually donate items to merchants for increased approval. Seems that it works the same way as DOS2.

Awesome. Now if it could made to affect the story and gravy would be groovy wink

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Basically I find the D&D camping system as it is implemented in the game cumbersome and it is sending mixed signals.

The main story calls for urgency and fast progress, however, this is not really the case, as you can not lose the game that way. Instead the story and especially the character interactions are brought forward through camping. So the story tells you to press onward, while you miss heaps of content if you do not rest a lot.

The gameplay focuses around resource management within and between fights, so you need to rest often to call upon your full potential. Now they are implementing a resource system for camping, which adds just another resource to manage. So either resources are scarce and you can not unleash your full potential all the time and will miss crucial story elements, or resources come in abundance and the mechanic is not needed at all.

Further, the camping itself is a time-consuming mechanic as it ties story and companion interactions into it, along with voiced dialogue, cutscenes and stuff to do, add and see while at camp. Be it Owlbear, Skelly, Dog etc.. So you might just want to rest up for important combat to find yourself tied into a 15 minute voiced monologue that is important.

I am a simple man and like efficiency. I like how PoE and BG2 do it. In the former you basically have all your skills ready for every combat and camping is necessitated through exhaustion, while in the latter it is a click and an interruptable cutscene. In both games story and companion interactions might be triggered by it, but nothing more.

I am not against a central hub either, but I prefer a set location for this, like the stronghold of both games I mentioned earlier. I also like companion interactions to take place in the game world being triggered by something instead through camping sequences, Mass Effect does that as well and while straightforward it is cumbersome. What I definitely do not like is being locked out of content because my pace is too fast, or too slow.
Also, I would like to point out that if they go the Divinity route, where companions are removed from the game after a certain event, the mechanic loses it's raison d'être, since you will have all your companions with you. So it is the skelly and the pets that is left at camp. Although I concede that we might get a home of sorts further down the road.

So I question the mechanix as a whole not how it is handled. More locations is better, roleplay additions are fine as well, but this is all not needed with the system of the predecessor, which is BG2.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Given the current EXTREME over-abundance of supplies I doubt a "partial rest" is something that anyone will ever actually need to do.

Even now that I just reached the goblin camp I have already enough supplies stored to do 15 long rests or so which are already three/four times more than the ones I made in my entire previous game.
And I'm sure I'll gather a whole lot more of them across an entire playthrough.

P.S. Back on topic, "mini-camps" are... an acceptable compromise and an improvement on what we had before, but I still think "contextual" camps placed/placeable in the "real" map would have been a far more elegant (and arguably far more cost-effective) solution.

Yes, I am inclined to agree that they maybe now need to significantly either tone down the amount of supplies you have, significantly increase the cost of a full-rest.....or maybe even both. Still, getting the Devs to tweak and rebalance new game mechanics is a significant part of what Early Access is all about wink.

I also agree with those who are saying that your other allies shouldn't show up at your mini-camps, only those currently in your party. Basically, your Main Camp should be a location you need to physically travel to in order to gain all of its benefits (like swapping out party members)-whether on foot or via waypoints. At all other times, Full or Partial Resting should take the mini-camp format IMHO.

Either way, this mechanic is still way, way better than what we had prior to Patch 5, so we are making definite progress.

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