Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback A response to Sven's "onboarding" problem

I was watching an interview with Sven and he mentioned that they are having an onboarding problem to help new plays play the game/learn their class etc.

Why not have a "dream" or flashback sequence where you recollect your past or ambitions.
This mini sequence could play right after the "who do you dream of at night" sequence and allows you to test out what your character will be like at higher levels and if that class and subclass choice is for your playstyle rather than rerolling half way in the game.
You could also use this to teach certain aspects of the game as well hence fixing the onboarding problem as well as giving a unique class / subclass flavour that this game currently desperately needs. Besides visuals and a couple dialog choices there really isnt much to make your subclass / class feel unique. This class halls in WoW.


OR maybe have it after you pick your patron for warlocks, or pick your god etc. So after level 2/3?

Have it show a unique (but doesnt have to be huge) area for each class/patron/sub-class

>A rogue in a training dojo with other rogues and maybe you get to control the master who has all the high level skills unlocked and maybe an assassination attempt it made so you fight back.

>For warlock Great old one you are teleported to this nether realm where you see the eldlich being in front of you. It begins to promise you great power and you can test out your high level skills there. If you refuse it begins torturing you until you submit to its will and then it lets you test your high level skills.

>Maybe for bards you are in a concert but you wake up and it was a dream and you want to become that good in the future.

>for demon paatron warlocks youre in a unique castle in the hells getting a tour by a high level demon etc

each subclass would have its own unique flavour to it and at the same time youd be solving the onboarding problem

I dont like this idea ...
I mean have some "button" in create character to actualy TRY your character could be interesting ... as long as it is keeped out of character honestly.

But everything after that seemed like bad idea. :-/

This for example ...
Warlocks are choosing their patron when character is created ...
Sorcerers are choosing their origin when character is created ...
Clerics are choosing their deity, and ... domain i gues(?), when character is created ...

You cant simply push it futher into story, since some classes are allready specialized. :-/

This is exactly what hope i will never see in this game ...
It could work better in some other game, where you have to pick pre-fabricated character ... but right here, its about YOU (or your character if you wish to be detailist) ... therefore anything set by Larian can potentialy ruin thousands of stories, people like about their characters. :-/

Therefore i believe that whole story BEFORE Mind Flayer abduction should remain as blank as possible.

i agree there should be a blank slate for each character. since youre right it could ruin peoples backstories etc. But BG3 already breaks the pre-story blank slate by having background stories like "Noble" etc.

There should be a fine balance between this. I dont think any warlock would have an issue with actually having an interaction with a great old one at some point in the game.

Maybe have a "catalog" mode to test out your class at max level to see if you like playing it

That doesn't break anything. It's a part of D&D system and the full list of backgrounds pretty much cover whom you possibly can be in Faerun in very broad terms. Same Noble background doesn't tie your character to any particular lineage and doesn't define how much of a proper noble life you had in your life. Your suggested scenarios are actually placing characters in very particular circumstances in which they probably never was by some backstories.
Previously I suggested to add another tutorial level with literal normal day where we could define connections to some NPCs by player choice. A normal day is something that happens to everyone, so the final goal of your suggestion could work with that, but not a particular class-based scenario.

I would have an issue with interacting with the GOO patron. As long as it isn't Cthulhu, I really don't want that, because I want to be able to decide, who my patron is and not get shoved something in my face.

I agree with the idea and premise but disagree with the semantics of the execution. I think it would better suit them to have the experience on the nautilus be properly tuned with better indicators and tips. A lot of them are useful if you’re a gamer or good with computers, but to just sit down and pick it up, things are a bit rough. I have someone who’s never played many games that’s going to sit down and try to play tomorrow and I’ll document it for larian studios if they’d like.

I don’t think heavy handed tutorials are in fashion these days - on boarding will most likely consist of subtle changes, UI improvements and regular, well paced tooltips rather then chunky set piece tutorials.

Something I remember liking from other games, the main one coming to mind being Fable, is that when levelling and picking abilities it would usually show a small clip displaying the ability in question.

Perhaps they could implement something like a small (?) Next to abilities and powers and spells which displays a pop up video showcasing the ability in use with perhaps a more detailed explanation or even more flavorful one as a quote from a NPC?

Like if a new player isn't quite sure what the spell firebolt would do, it'd show a clip of a wizard throwing the firebolt and it doing fire damage.

And then if they weren't sure how Evocation Wizard's effect would work, it'd show a different wizard throw a fireball on their ally, and said ally being completely unharmed while surrounding enemies are burnt to a crisp?

Dunno if that's a good idea.

That is not even story ...
Its just who you are, or who you were ... but its not specific enough.

Take "Noble" for example, since you picked it ...
- You are the son of a nobleman who owned a lot of land ... unfortunately, your father had the impression that knighthood would help you get a better view of the world ... so you enlisted in the service.
- You are the bastard of the king himself, although half blue blood is circulating in your veins, but you have no claim to the throne ... unless the whole royal family is completely extinct. (wink, wink)
- You are a spoiled brat, one of the even more spoiled members of the "higher society" and exactly according to the opinions of everyone around you, your money gives you the power to do literally whatever you want.
- You are the real heir to the throne, which was raised in secret by his foster parents as a commoner, because the King was afraid for your life.

> All these stories are completely valid.
And many more ofcourse.

And that is actualy where you are wrong ...

I use few examples from my own characters: ...

Galanis > Drow, Male ... Great Old One Warlock ...
As a male in Lolthsworn Drow society, Galanis was allways concidered to be "lesser being" (not so low as slave races ofcourse), never allowed to decide litteraly anything ... he hated this whole society, and often was ploting against them, never realized any of those plans ... until one day, when we was wandering "shores" of dark lake ... something talked to him, offered him incredible power, in exchange for souls of all those people who he uses this power against ...
Galanis never known, nor even cared what being it was, the offering of power was too sweat, and since it demanded souls of others, there was no price to pay in his eyes ...
> How can such character "meet" with his patron? That "unknown" is part of his story.

Zyraela > Tiefling, Female ... Fiend Warlock ...
If you have seen first Ghostrider, this story will seem familiar.
Zyraela was an artist, gymnast (now sure wich word is the right one) on a raised horizontal bar ... her family was living and acting in traveling circus for generations, and her shows was breathtaking for many and many years ... until one day, when terrible accident caused her being paralized from waist down ... nobody was able to help her, until one mysterious man came up ... he introduced himself as Azazel, and never even tryed to hide that he is Devil, offering the deal ... Zyraela's soul in exchange for her legs.
As in previous example, even her never thinked twice ... the offering of not just her walking again, but to start performing again, was too sweet to pass.
Sadly, the principal of the circus didnt want her back, bcs he believed that her deal with Devil could bring him bad luck ... that night whole Circus burned to the ground, there was only one victim, the principal.
> Again, as you can see that "castle in the hells getting a tour by a high level demon" ... would ruin this story, since Zyraela was never suppose to see Hells ...

//edit:
But dont get me wrong here!
I like the idea, im just not quite sure if the implementation would be right here.

Personaly i can imagine something little different ...
Imagine that in character creatinon screen, there is button named "try this class" ...
Now imagine Nautiloid, but NOT that part we have seen ... lets say it have another floor or something simmilar, actualy even the same floor would work when i think about it ... kinda, but it would still need to start somewhere after freeing US.
Now imagine that this part would work simmilar to our turorial ... few rooms, some enemies ... the usual stuff, EXCEPT you would be fighting cambions, instead of lesser imps.
Now imagine that our "high level" character would get to end of this "trial" version ... everything exploed, he died and we return to our character creation.
And FINALY ... now imagine some short cutscene, that this whole "trial characters" scenario ... was happening in that lower part of Nautiloid, that some dragon destroyed in THIS cutscene. :P

That, however, doesn’t really engage players with actual mechanics, which is the point of onboarding - seeing the skin in action (or trying it out yourself) is more important in action games like Fable or DMC where written description won’t really give you an idea of how skills work.

In BG3, however, showing a video of how skill looks in the game, or even letting player to try it out in a controlled environment won’t help them to understand how the skill actually works, or how it should be applied (what defences it targets, what enemies to target with it, how to make enemy susceptible to the skill etc.)

I agree with folks have to see how it is used in practice to actually learn the game. With the popularity of Critical Role maybe it would be cool to get them to do a video that could be viewed by new players where they "play D&D". They can be saying what the scene looks like and then show it in action in BG3. For instance, the DM could say, "you approach the goblin camp and hear shouts in the distance"." Then the screen could fade to the scene in BG3 with the characters approaching the goblin camp and as the DM continues to talk about the scene. Then the players could say what their characters will do. "There may be trouble ahead, so I want my Mage to prepare for battle. First, I want to bolster use a spell to bolster my armor." Then the scene would show the mage and show his mage popping up the hotbar, selecting Mage Armor, viewing what it does, and applying it. The focus can then shift back to the players and they say, "Next, I want to get closer to the camp to see what is going on, but I don't want them to hear me. I want to sneak up on them if they are hostile." Another player can chime in, "Oh, I think I have a spell that can help us all with sneaking." Then it shows BG3 again where it shows one of the characters cast pass without trace on the party (with tool tips) and then shows them going into sneak mode (with tool tips). They could play through a very short section where you can see how some of the skills, spells, dialog bonuses, etc. are used in practice. A new user is not going to know that they should apply Hex and target the Strength attribute because the target is up high and a nearby ally can easily shove them off the cliff on their turn. They need to see how it is done, but also hear why someone is doing it in the first place to learn how to play the game effectively. Have some scenarios where they explain things like examining enemies for weaknesses, checking for statuses of players, using utility spells to give your characters advantages and enemies disadvantages, using the environment to help dispose of foes, etc. There is a huge difference between a tool tip saying "You can use the jump button with B to reach high places" and seeing someone stack boxes, then climb up on them, then jump up onto a roof, sneak up behind an enemy, and push them to their death. The tool tip just explains how to make a character jump. Seeing it in action teaches players how to use that skill and when it is useful.