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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Setting aside all that, its a problem in multiplayer. Most of my friends don't do it, or would use it as a joke. But occasionally we get a random who thinks its the most brilliant thing ever that they discovered and nobody else knows about facepalm
I can relate to this ...
But playing with random unknow people allways means risking to meet with somoene who have different approach from your own. :-/

I would still say that better solution to this problem would be to allow game master to kick players out of his game ...
Since that way *mine* fun would remain unaffected. :P
And yes, it means that i am using barells sometimes ...
For example, final fight on Nautiloid is kinda too long for my taste, so i dont feel anyhow ashamed that i reduce that by more than half, with explosives (for some reason i so far never managed to kill all 3 cambions at once just by explosion itself ... it seems that i suck in this type of combat too laugh ).

Right now, my game was ruined so you can more enjoy yours ...
You should understand that from my perspective that was not best deal ever. laugh

//edit:
Or even better solution, make "immovable barells" setting option, when you CREATE your multiplayer game. :P
That would satisfy litteraly everyone ... and its just question of single 1/0 in code. :P

Originally Posted by Abits
I agree. I don't see why I should ruin someone else's fun if I'm not forced to use it
It warms my heart to see someone understands my point. smile

Originally Posted by Abits
The only problem with it which is a problem we will have to learn to live with is that dedicating time and resources to these silly gimmicks means less time to really important matters but this is Larian the only solution would be to find a new developer. Good luck with that
Well spended resources are endless topic ...
What really "matters" to one can be "silly and uninportant" to another ...

About stuff that can be as easily avoided as this ... i would say what is done is done, to adjust it would take more time and resources, than for you to get used to work without it ... yet i bet there is many forum users who would disagree. laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/07/21 12:59 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Setting aside all that, its a problem in multiplayer. Most of my friends don't do it, or would use it as a joke. But occasionally we get a random who thinks its the most brilliant thing ever that they discovered and nobody else knows about facepalm
I can relate to this ...
But playing with random unknow people allways means risking to meet with somoene who have different approach from your own. :-/

I would still say that better solution to this problem would be to allow game master to kick players out of his game ...

The host can kick people in multiplayer, but I have not yet used that option. Most people just agree not to use it when asked. I don't think I would kick them if they went ahead anyway.


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Now im confused ...
You have all the power in the world to enforce your way of play ...

Yet you confess that you would not use it, when people would decide to disobey your wish ...

And yet you concider granting that wish for everyone, no matter if they wanted it or not ... to be good thing in general? O_o


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@RagnarokCzD how about the argument that large heavy barrels should be hard to carry and throw because large heavy barrels are actually hard to carry and throw?

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Now im confused ...
You have all the power in the world to enforce your way of play ...

Yet you confess that you would not use it, when people would decide to disobey your wish ...

And yet you concider granting that wish for everyone, no matter if they wanted it or not ... to be good thing in general? O_o

I spent 15 years as a Raid Leader and Guild Leader/Officer in various Guilds. So to me kicking someone is a path of last resort and not one I enforce on a whim. At the end of the day if someone wants to be a certain way I am not going to micromanage them, I don't have the time or inclination. I just won't invite them back. They can organize their own 40-man Raid. Good luck with that.

The Barrelmancy thing - in my eyes- is at this point mostly solved. So if they made no further changes I wouldn't be too concerned. But in answer to your questions I really DON'T want to enforce my will on anyone, but I also don't want Barrelmancy in any of my games.

There are good, logical ways to defend why it shouldn't exist. We have covered how it breaks the game and allows you to bypass all ability use. Also that it is not covered by any rule in the PHB which would allow it. And finally that its physically impossible to add a 300 LB / 130 KG Barrel to a backpack, let alone feasibly carry even one.

One other thing I have learned in 15 years as a Raid Leader is that MOST humans, except the most extraordinary, will always seek the path of least resistance. It is only the most incredible and rare people that see a challenge as a gift to teach them and make them stronger. But that's a longer discussion of why we game in the first place, is it to consume time, or to provide mental stimulation, or to challenge yourself in some way?

As it stands Barrelmancy is an old piece of nonsense that Larian is being a bit sentimental about.

But you know - another way to solve it would have been to add a toggle. That could have been done at any time. Hand to God I would have been fine with it.


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Getting rid of the Larian cheese rules is not about denying people their fun. Yes those who don't like them can choose to not use them. But when combat encounters are designed and balanced factoring in players using those cheese elements, then the people who choose to not use those elements get screwed.

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I'm fine with stacking barrels and using them to your advantage. Stuff like that happens in the TTRPG all the time, but yeah a Strength requirement needs to be there.

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Good riddance to bad rubbish!

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Originally Posted by agouzov
@RagnarokCzD how about the argument that large heavy barrels should be hard to carry and throw because large heavy barrels are actually hard to carry and throw?
I dont accept such argument, bcs people tend to use it only when it suits them ...
Therefore its not an argument, just covenient excuse. -_-

For example gold coins ... they get weight in last patch, and as you can see people are allready disliking it ... as far as i know (read as: according to Google) usualy gold coin weighted between 5-9 grams ... that would mean that in end of Early Acess, when my character have 15.000gold pieces, it means she should have 75-135kg in her inventory ...
Why i dont see anyone yelling around that carrying so much gold is "immersion breaking"? :-/
Answer is simple, bcs people dont care about "immersion", when talking about weight ... they just dont like barells, so they search for "reasons" against it. Its simple reverse engineering, nothing else. -_-

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
The Barrelmancy thing - in my eyes- is at this point mostly solved. So if they made no further changes I wouldn't be too concerned.
Of course it is ... you get what you wanted, screw the others. :-/

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
But in answer to your questions I really DON'T want to enforce my will on anyone, but I also don't want Barrelmancy in any of my games.
Well i do ...
Too bad for me i guess, bcs Larian once again listened to those who yelled loud enough. -_-

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
There are good, logical ways to defend why it shouldn't exist.
So far i never seen even single one ...
Many arguments about why not use it ... but not even single one about why it should not exist at all. :-/

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
We have covered how it breaks the game and allows you to bypass all ability use.
Yeah, so what? Maybe i want to bypass all ability use. :-/
Why is it bothering you?

Be honest ... Does it bother you that i get the same reward with, in your eyes, conciderably less efford? :P

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Also that it is not covered by any rule in the PHB which would allow it.
Two thigs:
1) As far as i know, rules in PHB explicitly encourage players to use their own imagination and fantasy to do litteraly anything, and use those rules as guidance ... not as restrictions. > That is your allowing. wink
2) As far as i know, there is no rule that would forbids it either. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
And finally that its physically impossible to add a 300 LB / 130 KG Barrel to a backpack, let alone feasibly carry even one.
Show me such barrel in game, then we can talk about why is it possible. smile

BTW do you know what else is physically impossible?
To carry 25 chainmail armors ...
Or to carry 25 warhammers ..
Or to carry 25 greatswords ...
Or, funny enough, to carry all abowe, enough food for next three weeks, your own weight in gold, also carry your own armor and weapon, and still juping 7m long jumps. laugh
How is that possible that none of that is problem sudently? :P

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
One other thing I have learned in 15 years as a Raid Leader is that MOST humans, except the most extraordinary, will always seek the path of least resistance. It is only the most incredible and rare people that see a challenge as a gift to teach them and make them stronger. But that's a longer discussion of why we game in the first place, is it to consume time, or to provide mental stimulation, or to challenge yourself in some way?
Yeah they will ... you surely didnt need 15 years to find that out.
Question here is: So what? laugh

If i want to spend hours in my game carrying barells from one place to another, to create spectacular explosion ... what do you even care? why do you even care? isn't that my thing? how is that possible that so many people have problem with us using "easier way", yet nobody from the other camp ever complained in this forum about people who spend hours in effort to create as good build as possible to overcome some challenge instead of "just blow few barells" ? laugh

I really, honestly want to understand ...
Where the resentment comes from? And how is that possible it flows one way only? :-/

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
As it stands Barrelmancy is an old piece of nonsense that Larian is being a bit sentimental about.
Well, that is your opinion man ...
People can easily say that poking boss with stick, hoping for high damage roll is and old piece of nonsence that Wizards of the Coast is being sentimental about. :-/

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
But you know - another way to solve it would have been to add a toggle. That could have been done at any time. Hand to God I would have been fine with it.
I would too ...
I dont honestly quite understand why Larian need to keep choosing one group over the another whenever there is a conflict ... even if in some cases there is so easy option to satisfy everyone. :-/

Its source of lot of mine frustration around this game ... quite shame, concidering how exited i was about other things in this patch. frown

Originally Posted by kanisatha
Getting rid of the Larian cheese rules is not about denying people their fun.
I dont honestly care what is this "about" ... i care about the results. :-/
And as long as result is that my fun is gone, i dare to presume it dont take rocket engineer to figure out why im not happy. :-/

Originally Posted by kanisatha
Yes those who don't like them can choose to not use them.
Exactly.
I totally understand that this is not "allways" the thruth ... but in this particular case? Totally truth.

Originally Posted by kanisatha
But when combat encounters are designed and balanced factoring in players using those cheese elements, then the people who choose to not use those elements get screwed.
This on the other hand is in this particular case not the truth ... therefore its irellevant for this conversation.
As far as i know, there is litteraly none combat that would REQUIRE relocation, or throwing and blowing barells ... if you know about any, please feel free to corect me.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/07/21 04:08 PM.

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Good. It was over the top and ridiculous. It should require enormous strength to throw a full size barrel full of oil. Balancing the game by making sure people can't trivialize battles by using the same tactic over and over to win is more important than some people losing their exploit/cheese tactic fun. Besides, they can always make a mod for it if they absolutely must have it in the game for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Silent_Clang
Balancing the game by making sure people can't trivialize battles by using the same tactic over and over to win is more important than some people losing their exploit/cheese tactic fun.
Agree ... balancing the game should be important ...
Even more important than "some people losing their fun" ... for exaple those, who despise to use barells.

Funny that using the same tactic "over and over" dont apply for:
"hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > ...
Why i wonder? Oh i remember now, its bcs that is deep tactic wich stimulates our brain when overcoming challenges. laugh

Originally Posted by Silent_Clang
Besides, they can always make a mod for it if they absolutely must have it in the game for whatever reason.
This is just stupidest argument in the world history ...
I wonder why you didnt make a mod for it, when you absolutely needed it gone?

Oh wait i remember now, since you bet on yelling loud enough, and now you feel being in position of strength, bcs you were in the lucky group. -_-


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by agouzov
[quote=Blackheifer]We have covered how it breaks the game and allows you to bypass all ability use.
Yeah, so what? Maybe i want to bypass all ability use. :-/
Why is it bothering you?

Be honest ... Does it bother you that i get the same reward with, in your eyes, conciderably less efford? :P

I wanted to address this and one other thing because everything else is just our opinions.

The answer is NO, but I do know people who are like this and I have never understood it. For the record I couldn't care less what people do in single player games, because for the most part those games effect no one else and don't matter. Its a private fantasy Kingdom where people can save scum to their hearts content until they get all the 'perfect' outcomes they want.

I do care about Multiplayer games and only multiplayer games.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Also that it is not covered by any rule in the PHB which would allow it.
Two thigs:
1) As far as i know, rules in PHB explicitly encourage players to use their own imagination and fantasy to do litteraly anything, and use those rules as guidance ... not as restrictions. > That is your allowing. wink
2) As far as i know, there is no rule that would forbids it either. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
And finally that its physically impossible to add a 300 LB / 130 KG Barrel to a backpack, let alone feasibly carry even one.
Show me such barrel in game, then we can talk about why is it possible. smile

BTW do you know what else is physically impossible?
To carry 25 chainmail armors ...
Or to carry 25 warhammers ..
Or to carry 25 greatswords ...
Or, funny enough, to carry all abowe, enough food for next three weeks, your own weight in gold, also carry your own armor and weapon, and still juping 7m long jumps. laugh
How is that possible that none of that is problem sudently? :P

Actually now that the carry weight rules are in effect all of that is now impossible. You would be lucky to get a couple sets of Chainmail in your inventory with average carry weight of 120 LBS.

The funny thing is I don't think Larian set out to shut down Barrelmancy. I think it happened when they started applying the proper PHB rules on weight and encumbrance.

It wasn't in the patch notes. Which, if you think about it, basically affirms what both of us were saying about the PHB not forbidding it, but there being no rules that support it.

Larian applied the proper RAW for weight and Barrelmancy broke.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Silent_Clang
Balancing the game by making sure people can't trivialize battles by using the same tactic over and over to win is more important than some people losing their exploit/cheese tactic fun.
Agree ... balancing the game should be important ...
Even more important than "some people losing their fun" ... for exaple those, who despise to use barells.

Funny that using the same tactic "over and over" dont apply for:
"hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > "hit enemy with a hammer, hope for high damage roll" > ...
Why i wonder? Oh i remember now, its bcs that is deep tactic wich stimulates our brain when overcoming challenges. laugh

Originally Posted by Silent_Clang
Besides, they can always make a mod for it if they absolutely must have it in the game for whatever reason.
This is just stupidest argument in the world history ...
I wonder why you didnt make a mod for it, when you absolutely needed it gone?

Oh wait i remember now, since you bet on yelling loud enough, and now you feel being in position of strength, bcs you were in the lucky group. -_-

.... What in the world did I just read?

And yelling loud enough about what exactly? I just got on this forum a few days ago. You're the one all over this thread like you're on a damn crusade or something. I wanted to show support and appreciation for this change by stating my opinion on it too. Anyway, I'd rather not have this turn into some idiotic argument with you, so let's not engage any further eh.

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Originally Posted by Silent_Clang
And yelling loud enough about what exactly? I just got on this forum a few days ago. You're the one all over this thread like you're on a damn crusade or something. I wanted to show support and appreciation for this change by stating my opinion on it too. Anyway, I'd rather not have this turn into some idiotic argument with you, so let's not engage any further eh.


I think the majority of us agree that Barrelmancy is not really something that needs to be part of BG3. Even being generous and allowing that how other people play doesn't affect us - its still demoralizing to think that the battles can just be cheesed that way.

I also tend to think that the long term reputation of this game will be partially predicated on the actual difficulty level of the game. Imagine all the work they put into creating encounters that are challenging and some optional encounters that are nearly impossible and then leaving something like this in place to just bypass all that design work.


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Originally Posted by agouzov
@RagnarokCzD how about the argument that large heavy barrels should be hard to carry and throw because large heavy barrels are actually hard to carry and throw?
This.
Why would you be able to pick up and throw around heavy barrels?
It makes more sense this way.

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Going in the good way, but still not enough, they shall still had more weight to barrels etc.

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Damn, some people really like their explosions, huh? I'll try to explain too.

The problem with barrelmancy is, as many other say, that it's an optimal strategy. Every encounter can be easily overcome using it. In addition it's a very easy exploit to find, so much so that it's hard to say if it even is an exploit. Just by playing the game normally you can find out about how strong this stuff is, as it's simply just a feature of the game.

Now add to that the amount of explosive barrels available (which is also immersion breaking) and you've got a situation where you as a player are not sure whether the game is balanced around this or not. If you don't know this for sure and your abilities don't matter for barrelmancy, and thus for encounters, it feels like your choices didn't matter.

The amount of explosive barrels available also causes the problem of removing the novelty of the idea. Bringing along an explosive barrel to win an encounter can be really cool, but when that can just be done every battle, it's pretty boring. The amount of it feels like a DM constantly telling you to use his "fun" solution. A single oil barrel that you could use somewhere, is way more exciting than an oil barrel around every corner.

It's not a glitch, but a feature, which makes it hard to ignore. Larian has a tendency to put in so many exploitable mechanics that aren't glitches, so you start wondering if you're supposed to use them, especially if you're having a hard time in a fight. If it were an obvious glitch, like item-duping in other games for example, people would not nearly have as much a problem with it.


All in all, people (even those who hate it) actually do want to use barrelmancy, but they want to feel clever for using it and it should be unique to a certain experience. This means making it more rare and as they've done add some sort of requirement for strength, because then your character choices matter again. You find a difficult encounter: "Maybe you can stash some loot in order to have the barbarian bring that barrel from the town and then you'll get them!" is way more fun than: "This encounter is hard, I guess I'll take one of those 7 explosive barrels out of my inventory." If it's too easy to do, it simply becomes a thing they won't allow themselves to use or it trivializes everything, rather than a cool option they could use once.


Someone mentioned it's not possible to carry a whole bunch of greatswords and stuff as a counter-argument for immersion breaking. Larian needs to fix their whole inventory system anyway. Choosing what stuff to bring and what to leave behind should be a part of any RPG. It doesn't have to be entirely realistic, but it should matter somewhat, so we're not just mindlessly clicking away. The weight of gold is something people dislike, cus we're used to credit cards and stuff I imagine.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I wanted to address this and one other thing because everything else is just our opinions.
Well, of course they are ... what else would it be? smile
I really dont understand why people keep mentioning, that ... everything someone says is alterned by his opinions ... or do you really (and i mean REALLY) believe that anyone is even capable of being pure objective without any personal imput? laugh Bcs hoenstly, i dont. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
The answer is NO, but I do know people who are like this and I have never understood it. For the record I couldn't care less what people do in single player games, because for the most part those games effect no one else and don't matter. Its a private fantasy Kingdom where people can save scum to their hearts content until they get all the 'perfect' outcomes they want.
Agreed.
I just mentioned it, bcs in my perspective that is the only reason i could understand ... no attact intented.

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I do care about Multiplayer games and only multiplayer games.
I know ... i only wish more people around here would have this attitude.
Sadly Larian is alterning game as a whole. :-/

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Actually now that the carry weight rules are in effect all of that is now impossible. You would be lucky to get a couple sets of Chainmail in your inventory with average carry weight of 120 LBS.
True ...
But my point was: How many topics about immersion have you seen about that?
Maybe one, or two mentions in some old topic, or in between dozen of other suggestions in single threat ... but certainly not even 1/10 of hatred against Barells.

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Larian applied the proper RAW for weight and Barrelmancy broke.
That sounds acurate ...
Now i can only hope they will fix it. :P

For example they could incerase damage from explosion ...
If you were able to drag 5 barells before, but it was "immersion breaking" ... now you would be able to drag 1, but make the same destruction level with it ... i would be quite fine with such change.
After all, its not much "immersion" (since some people like that word so much) to blow WHOLE 120LBS barrel of Black Powder, to only create explosion that will only hurt people withing 0,5meter raidus ... instead of killing litteraly everything in 5 meter radius, and cause bleeding damage and major wounds to everyone in 50 meter radius, unless they were hidden behind something. :P

Now when i think about it, i would actualy like such change. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I think the majority of us agree that Barrelmancy is not really something that needs to be part of BG3.
"Majority" sounds like a little strong word ...
Around here there isnt even 1000 active people around here ... personaly i doubt there is even 100 ... and even if there was (1000 i mean) it would still be only 0,001% of all players ...
That i not much to make any asumption of what "majority" actualy things, or wants. :-/

I know you were talking about majority of forum users, and not majority of all players ...
I just clarify how insignificant majority of forum users actualy is. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Even being generous and allowing that how other people play doesn't affect us
Im not quite sure if there is anything generous about it ... after all, the other group do the same all the time. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
its still demoralizing to think that the battles can just be cheesed that way.
See? That is what i was talkig about ...
So you actualy DO mind that someone can achieve the same result, with conciderable "lesser" (even if i would rather say "different kind of") effort. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
I also tend to think that the long term reputation of this game will be partially predicated on the actual difficulty level of the game. Imagine all the work they put into creating encounters that are challenging and some optional encounters that are nearly impossible and then leaving something like this in place to just bypass all that design work.
I want to believe that is the point here ...
Everyone should have fun, and there simply are people out there who dont concider fun to being obliterated by "strong boss" over and over and over. laugh
They are giving us options ... nothing more ... its up to us how, or even if we are going to use them.

Many people are talking around here about "its bad that combats are ballanced around cheese mechanics" ... yet i never heared about single combat, that would REQUIRE you to use litteraly ANY "cheese" ... so, ince we managed to understand each other in past ... i hope at least you (even if many probably will not) will understand why i concider that argument void. laugh


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Originally Posted by Gideon Stargrave
Why would you be able to pick up and throw around heavy barrels?
It makes more sense this way.
That is the question isnt it?
I would say it makes the same, or at least simmilar amount of sence as throwing Chainmail you are curently wearing at your enemy in middle of the fight. laugh
I would say it makes the same, or at least simmilar amount of sence as throwing Warhammer you are curently holding at your enemy in middle of the fight. laugh
I would say it makes the same, or at least simmilar amount of sence as throwing a Goblin, wich probably should not cooperate, at your enemy in middle of the fight. laugh
I would say it makes the same, or at least simmilar amount of sence as throwing Necrotic damage spreading corpse of your Friend at your enemy in middle of the fight. laugh
I would say it makes the same, or at least simmilar amount of sence as carrying more than our own weight in gold ...

Yet ... we are able to do all of it, but for some reason none of it bother people around here as much as the fact that we can "put barrel in our inventory". laugh

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Damn, some people really like their explosions, huh? I'll try to explain too.
Yup.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
The problem with barrelmancy is, as many other say, that it's an optimal strategy.
And this is the funny part ...
Why is that a problem? smile

I say live and let live ...
Here is your option: you want it, you use it ... you dont want it, you dont use it ... everyone happy.
Why is that impossible? Why you people seem to be unable to enjoy your game, as you like it, as you want it, as you demand it to be ... just bcs alterntive "exists"? O_o

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Just by playing the game normally you can find out about how strong this stuff is
Oh i do play the game "normally" ...
I have 411hours played ... since start i finished Early acess more than 20 now ...

And i tryed it all ...
I tryed eating food during the combat instead of drinking potions, i find every combat trivial and unenjoyabe ... i stopped ... my game experience improved.
I tryed to spam Long rest after every combat, i find it tedious and anoying ... i stopped ... my game experience improved.
I tryed to hide after every attack, i find it simply stupid (and also i was forgoting often laugh ) ... i stopped ... again, it was better.
I tryed to walk around enemies to get backstab advantage ... same story as with hiding.
I tryed to kill enemies by throwing them to another enemies ... that was fun, for a while ... but eventualy i stoped again. smile
I tryed to kill every single NPC i met before even talking to it ... that was interesting experience ... some hard moments was there, if you dont have resuplying vendors that are still offering another, and another healing potions, but you have to do with what you get ... and you have no party with you ... i admit that i never managed to kill Githyanki patrol like this. :P

And yes, lately i tryed even killing enemies with using Barells ... i must admit i suck in this too, since even if i collected all barells in Tutorial, i (as i mentioned earlyer) never managed to kill all 3 cambions with that explosion allone. frown But it helped me shorten that battle by conciderable amount, wich i personaly see as certain plus ... since killing them all "properly" in level 1 takes too much time for my taste. :-/

So i know the stuff can be strong, i have seen the videos where people were blowing away the dragon, the whole goblin camp (that one looked fun, like huge blazing domino of death), or other encounters.
But the funny thing here is, that its fun only for limmited amount of explosions ... speaking for my own experience, sooner or later, you start to feel like combat is not fulfilling, that the fact his character is gaining power, progressing to new levels and gets better and better items is void ... since all you need, and all you use is "firebolt" cantrip. laugh

And that is why i dont mind Barrels at all ... i have them prepared, whenever i want to have some blowing fun ... but i dont use them much, since i enjoy the combat as it is ... and honestly, if somene can enjoy this as Bomber-man 3D simulator ... i dont see any problem with it, maybe i even envy him a little bit, since that person can clearly enjoy his game more than i am able. smile

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Now add to that the amount of explosive barrels available (which is also immersion breaking)
This is what i dont like about all those "immersion breaking" people are talking around here ... you just state it, and concider it a fact.
How? Why? ... What is so immersion beaking about the fact that flamable materials exists, and people are hoarding them? laugh

What "immersion" you have, so its breaking for you with the fact, that people are creating wine that is flamable?
(I wonder how they do it, tho since as far as i know, lowest amount of alcohol to make fluid flamable is 30% ... and that can certainly no longer being called a wine laugh )
What "immersion" you have, so its breaking for you with the fact, that people noticed that oil is flamable, and they started to gather it for that reason? laugh
What "immersion" you have, so its breaking for you with the fact, that people noticed how incredibly usefull black powder is, so they started to create as much as they could? O_o

I mean except the word "wine" wich could easily be replaced by "liquer" (even tho port wine have quite high amount of alcohol, yet its still a wine ... not sure if that is flamable tho) and sudently, all is fixed ...
That all is just natural course of things ... you can see exactly the same was happening in our world history. laugh

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
and you've got a situation where you as a player are not sure whether the game is balanced around this or not. If you don't know this for sure and your abilities don't matter for barrelmancy, and thus for encounters, it feels like your choices didn't matter.
I believe you can be pretty sure about this ...
Question: Can you overcome any encounter without blowing even a single Barrel?
Answers: Yes > therefore game is not ballanced around it. ... No > therefore game is ballanced around it.

That was not so hard, was it? wink
Yes, Barrels are covenient "easy button" prepared for you whenever you might need it, or simply want it ... and that is exactly what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
The amount of explosive barrels available also causes the problem of removing the novelty of the idea. Bringing along an explosive barrel to win an encounter can be really cool, but when that can just be done every battle, it's pretty boring. The amount of it feels like a DM constantly telling you to use his "fun" solution. A single oil barrel that you could use somewhere, is way more exciting than an oil barrel around every corner.
I agree ...
But it would be tedious and boring to drag the barell across whole map, just to use it somewhere else, than DM expected you to want it.

Therefore there is many of them, so you can use them anywhere, and any time you want ...
And if you dont? Well, then you simply dont. smile No harm made.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
It's not a glitch, but a feature, which makes it hard to ignore.
This sentence made me feel exceptionaly good about myself, concidering how many hunderts of hours i managed to ignore it. laugh
I must be very ignorat indeed. ^_^

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Larian has a tendency to put in so many exploitable mechanics that aren't glitches, so you start wondering if you're supposed to use them, especially if you're having a hard time in a fight. If it were an obvious glitch, like item-duping in other games for example, people would not nearly have as much a problem with it.
Well i agree ... i also believe that is main reason of their existence ...
They ARE there for you to use them ... then either you do, or you dont ... then you retrospecitvely concider what you did, and if you had fun doing it, and based on that result you either do it again, or you dont ... its all up to you. smile

I believe Larian did fantastic job here ...
They realized that this game will be accesible for wide amount of players, with wide amount of expectations, and even wide amount of definitions of fun ... then, they implemented as many options for those people as they were even able, so everyone can have his own. smile
Sadly ... then puritans came ... and start demanding that litteraly everything that is not in the book is scraped, destroyed, remowed, thrown away, and forgotten for eternity ... what we get in the end, if Larian will listen to them and only them, would be game that would be just perfect for the most hardcore DnD players ... quite good fot casual DnD players, or experienced RPG players ... and will totally suck for everyone else. :-/
I dont want this to be BG-3 fate. :-/

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
All in all, people (even those who hate it) actually do want to use barrelmancy
I know, im watching this attitude across all "homebrew" topics on this forum ...
And i never understanded it and im affraid i never will. :-/

My point for playing game is to have fun ... when that what i do is not giving the fun, i stop doing that so i can enjoy my game ... i dont care how "effective" it could be, i dont want to do it, therefore i dont do it ... and my game experience was great so far. :-/
Maybe they should try it sometimes.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
but they want to feel clever for using it and it should be unique to a certain experience.
And nothing is stoping them, but themselves.
That is another funny part. smile

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
You find a difficult encounter: "Maybe you can stash some loot in order to have the barbarian bring that barrel from the town and then you'll get them!" is way more fun than: "This encounter is hard, I guess I'll take one of those 7 explosive barrels out of my inventory."
But those options are not exclusive to each other ...
When you are able to do both ... the one who wants to do first thing, can have his fun ... the one who wants to do the second thing, can have his fun ...
When you are able to do only first ... the second gets screwed. :-/

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
If it's too easy to do, it simply becomes a thing they won't allow themselves to use or it trivializes everything, rather than a cool option they could use once.
"they won't allow themselves to use" ... and that is suppose to be bad thing i get?
Bcs as i see it, they determined that to use this option would ruind their fun, and therefore they decided not to use it ... wich is completely fine, right and it dont harm anyone else, imho that is how its suppose to be. O_o

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Someone mentioned it's not possible to carry a whole bunch of greatswords and stuff as a counter-argument for immersion breaking. Larian needs to fix their whole inventory system anyway. Choosing what stuff to bring and what to leave behind should be a part of any RPG. It doesn't have to be entirely realistic, but it should matter somewhat, so we're not just mindlessly clicking away. The weight of gold is something people dislike, cus we're used to credit cards and stuff I imagine.
We will never "choose" what stuff to bring and what to leave ...
We shall simply send the heavy stuff to camp, and sell it to talkative skelleton. laugh

"We" in this case, are hoarders ... we simply like to get everything we can, even if that mean that in level 4, when someone offers us "generous reward for risking our life" and then gives us 50g ... we are like: "thanks, dude ... my life is worth incerasing my funds by 0,1% -_-" laugh
Its ridiculous, its "immersion breaking" ... but it certainly dont mean, that Larian should offer ten thousand gold pieces as quest rewards. laugh


In the words of the senior NCO instructor at cadet battalion:
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I really like it better this way. Still viable to use just not as easy. There is an actual limit to how much you can use it. DnD is not meant to be rushed through. Savouring the adventure is half the fun.

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