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Originally Posted by linkezio
The problem isn't the carrying capacity, the problem is the NPCs watching you put gunpowder in front of them and thinking that's normal, or they arrive at a place full of gunpowder and do nothing.
They've all horribly failed their wisdom/perception checks.

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You are forgetting about the giants belt...

But I agree with the idea that the game should limit or balance these absurd mechanics.

As I said in another post: "I can give a sword that deals infinite damage to a player, if he is feeling strong, just don't use it."

First, almost no one will be analyzing balance during gameplay.

Second, how will players know what is and isn't balanced? And newbies?

Third, if you choose the barriers that you're going to face yourself, then this isn't a game, it's a story creation, it would really be D&D.

Fourth, (irony on) what is leveling for? If I decide the mechanics then I should choose the level I want, I should also choose the spells I want... why not use a barbarian who uses magic? I think this is balanced.

Last edited by linkezio; 27/07/21 06:32 AM.
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Originally Posted by dreambled
Originally Posted by linkezio
The problem isn't the carrying capacity, the problem is the NPCs watching you put gunpowder in front of them and thinking that's normal, or they arrive at a place full of gunpowder and do nothing.
They've all horribly failed their wisdom/perception checks.

"A bunch of adventurers bringing gunpowder to me, must be gunpowder deliverers. By coincidence, they stopped to rest here on MY SIDE."

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Originally Posted by <Redacted>
<Redacted>
Oh, without a doubt.
The parameters are still WAY too forgiving, as far as I'm concerned.
Still, just making it at least a bit more inconvenient is progress in itself.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well "so much" seem like quite strong words ...
For one, i must admit that i have no idea how many barrels of wich flamable material is in game curently ... but i honestly doubt its more than, lets say 50 for example.

That dont sounds like so much to me ... especialy, once you remind yourself that ingame map is obviously not 1:1, since it would take Goblins to litteraly 5 minutes walking east to find Druids grove. laugh

And yes, i know that in Goblin camp there is room that is STUFFED with explosives ... but that have story-wise reason. wink

So ... that "certain encounter" you are talking about is? O_o
Bcs i can remember only Goblin leaders ... and maybe Cambion General (still dont remember his name) in tutorial ...
And in both cases you need to drag Barells from conciderable distance to use them in my opinion. o_O
50 is a lot. Having them in a specific spot on the map makes it so that the problem is fixed if only the 20 STR barbarian can carry one barrel, which would also make sense as to the size and weight of barrels full of something.


I'm not even gonna react to the rest, cus your really not making any sense. At least most people seem to agree and understand it, so it's all good.

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Originally Posted by Peranor
I think I find the sheer amount of explosive barrels placed everywhere is even more ridiculous.
I request elaboration ...
Where *everywhere* you mean?
Since i remember only explosives storage in goblin camp, "secret" passage to cave next to gnolls (maybe 3 barrels), basement of Selune temple (again, cca 3), 3 or maybe 4 barrels set as trap in Druid secret passage, and single barrel in crypt ... and that is it? O_o
Did i forged some or is now 6 locations concidered "everywhere" ? O_o

Originally Posted by Melkisedeck
But it doesn't merge with Baldur's Gate franchise, and doesn't make sense in DnD 5.
It would be SO MUCH better, if at least one of you will say at least one reason ...
Simply stating "that dont make sence" is just not enough! :-/

Unless you imagine debate as:
Yes it does! > No it doesn't! > Yes it does! > No it doesn't! > Yes it does! > No it doesn't! > Yes it does! > No it doesn't! > ...

Originally Posted by Melkisedeck
Let's pretend that the common barrels we see in the game (firewine barrel) weights the same as wine barrels do in real life.

Empty, they weight around 90 pounds, and full they weight around 600 pounds.

In the game these common usual barrels weight 10 pounds.
Cute ... but as long as you aply this logic only to things you dont like, and not to everything in game ... its not an argument, just covenient excuse. :-/

I would just like to point out that such barrel weights 600 pounds only in gravity 1G ...
I dont honestly know gravity in Faerûn, but just to set things ... note that in 1G few tons heavy animal would never be able to fly. wink

Also: https://www.dndbeyond.com/equipment/gunpowder-keg wink

Originally Posted by Melkisedeck
- How about putting infinite attribute points at player's disposal on character creation?
A: "That's no big deal, because players don't have to use it if they don't want to."
Actualy, its pretty funny you mentioned this ... since this will probably be included in final release. laugh
Since Larian allready promised us rolling stats, and there is litteraly nothing stoping you to reroll you dices until you get six 20 (or as close result as possible) ... it was allready discuised that most games that allow rolling stats, also allow people to just set his statistic however he like to with infinite points. :P

So, there is fair change that this, "ridiculous nonsence" will be actualy included. laugh laugh laugh
And on top, it would be good decision. :P

Also ...
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/12 laugh

Originally Posted by Melkisedeck
- How about a portal opening on player's camp, and having a demon giving explosives with no weight and automatic crossbows, so everyone can cheese the game more?
A: "That's no big deal, because players don't have to use them if they don't want to."
I would say that there is difference ... and if you dont see any, im not quite sure if i should take rest of your post seriously. laugh

Anway:
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/124 laugh laugh

Originally Posted by Melkisedeck
- How about putting all magic scrolls inside an infinite bag of holding on the beach, so the player can access all of them on the beggining of the game?
A: "That's no big deal, because players don't have to use them if they don't don't want to."
[sarcasm]This actualy sounds like good idea ... especialy now, since we are suppose to "try" things. :P[/sarcasm]

Check this:
https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/230 laugh laugh laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
These are all excellent points.
No, they are not ...
It all the same "i know better" stuff over and over again ... he just added pinch of absurdity in the mixure, to make it more ridiculous, that is all. laugh

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Yeah I think the argument of "just don't use it" falls apart when you subject it to these sorts of escalating absurdities.
"Absurd" is subjective ...
I dont understand you honestly, i thought you allready admited that you are not really bothered by stuff you can easily ignore. o_O
Now you seem to be back in the holy crusade. laugh

Honestly, do you people even realize that this game is not for you allone? O_o
Since it dont really seem that way, more like ... "i want this game to be perfect for myself and screw others". :-/
I must admit it kinda makes me sad. :-/
We could all have the perfect (or at least good enough) game (i tryed, therefore i know it IS possible), but you (and by this i dont mean Blackheifer specificly, but you as a whole part of comunity fighting against anything 5e-unpure) just seem to me like you, for some unknown reason, cant stand the fact that someone else is having fun in other way, that you specificly allowed ... there is harsh world waiting for you outside with this mindset. :-/

Originally Posted by linkezio
The problem isn't the carrying capacity, the problem is the NPCs watching you put gunpowder in front of them and thinking that's normal, or they arrive at a place full of gunpowder and do nothing.
+1!

Originally Posted by linkezio
First, almost no one will be analyzing balance during gameplay.
Agreed ...

Originally Posted by linkezio
Second, how will players know what is and isn't balanced? And newbies?
I dont understand this question ... you allready admited that people will not analize balance ... so why are you repeating it? :P
I believe more important question here is: Does it matter? As long as they have fun? :P

Originally Posted by linkezio
Third, if you choose the barriers that you're going to face yourself, then this isn't a game, it's a story creation, it would really be D&D.
Im not sure i understand this sentence ... (language block)
But if Google translator can be thrusted, i agree. smile

Originally Posted by linkezio
Fourth, (irony on) what is leveling for? If I decide the mechanics then I should choose the level I want, I should also choose the spells I want... why not use a barbarian who uses magic? I think this is balanced.
Well actualy your barbarian can use magic ... if you multiclass. :P laugh
And that is pure 5e. laugh

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
50 is a lot.
It depends on context ...
Also i just guessed that number, originaly i wanted to write 20 ... now, when i thinked about places you can find them, it would probably be closer to actual number.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
I'm not even gonna react to the rest, cus your really not making any sense.
Well, in that case i shall concider this sentence to be: "I see your opinion and I have no valid arguments against it ... but I just have to say that I still disagree with you, because otherwise it would mean that I realized that I was wrong ... so I will simply try to undermine it by some general and a meaningless statement."
I presume that is fair. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 27/07/21 09:36 AM.

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I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
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Originally Posted by linkezio
Originally Posted by dreambled
Originally Posted by linkezio
The problem isn't the carrying capacity, the problem is the NPCs watching you put gunpowder in front of them and thinking that's normal, or they arrive at a place full of gunpowder and do nothing.
They've all horribly failed their wisdom/perception checks.

"A bunch of adventurers bringing gunpowder to me, must be gunpowder deliverers. By coincidence, they stopped to rest here on MY SIDE."

Enemies not noticing that a bunch of barrels suddenly appeared by their side in combat is utterly ridiculous. 🤣🤣

Completely breaks immersion.

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Ragnarok, why do you keep linking to 3rd party mods as if those should add something to this discussion?

Last edited by Peranor; 27/07/21 11:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Peranor
Ragnarok, why do you keep linking to 3rd party mods as if those should add something to this discussion?
Fairly horrible ones, on top o that.


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When you start arguing about what the actual gravity is like in Faerun you may have exceeded the limits of honest argument. laugh

I noticed you are not refuting any of Melkisdecks "escalating absurdities" argument. You are just using the argumentative equivalent of "nuh uh" (Equivocation). If you are unable to take in new information and modify your opinion based on that then why engage in argument at all? (This question is rhetorical, no answer required)

I was actually on the fence until I read his argument, but frankly I don't see a logical counter to what he pointed out. It doesn't violate any of the most common logical fallacies. Yes I said I am not bothered by stuff I can easily ignore, but I took in new information and adjusted my outlook based on somebody making a really good point. This is called "being open-minded" - as opposed to being "close-minded."

Meanwhile I want to invite you to consider that you are using a lot of logical fallacies yourself - such as Equivocation, Ad Hominin, Appeal to Popular Opinion, False Equivalency and Straw Man Fallacy. Some of this may be due to be a non-english speaker but I would encourage you to take a moment to go over these fallacies and try to avoid using them as argumentative fodder.

To be fair, everyone here is somewhat guilty of abusing these to some extent (even me on occasion) - but I am seeing them in excess from you. When someone says you are arguing in "bad faith" - they are usually saying 1) that you are using a lot of logical fallacies and 2) that the purpose of your argument isn't to change anyone's mind but to cause conflict.

I am not saying any of this to be mean nor am I trying to attack a specific argument with this reply (that would be Ad Hominin- attacking the person not the idea). I usually enjoy reading your arguments, and I welcome differing points - even divisive ones. But if you honestly cannot recognize a good argument made in good faith then what's the point? (again, rhetorical)


Also a Keg is not a barrel - its much smaller. (false equivalency)

Last edited by Blackheifer; 27/07/21 11:39 AM.

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I'm glad , they are a bit more realistic with barrels now. I haven't tried out patch 5 der, since I haven't finished my current playthrough, but it sounds promising.
It's a bit ridiculous, if a strength 10 mage can carry 5 barrels or so.

Last edited by fylimar; 27/07/21 11:40 AM.

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About carrying weight, I don't think that's the source of the problem, but I also think it should make sense, a powder barrel can never weigh 5kg.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by linkezio
Second, how will players know what is and isn't balanced? And newbies?
I dont understand this question ... you allready admited that people will not analize balance ... so why are you repeating it? :P
I believe more important question here is: Does it matter? As long as they have fun? :P

I'm saying that even if they were to analyze the balance while playing, not all players will know what is balanced, even worse for beginners. And prioritizing fun can keep you from having fun, believe me.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by linkezio
Third, if you choose the barriers that you're going to face yourself, then this isn't a game, it's a story creation, it would really be D&D.
Im not sure i understand this sentence ... (language block)
But if Google translator can be thrusted, i agree. smile

I said if you choose your own challenges then it becomes more of a story telling than a game.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by linkezio
Fourth, (irony on) what is leveling for? If I decide the mechanics then I should choose the level I want, I should also choose the spells I want... why not use a barbarian who uses magic? I think this is balanced.
Well actualy your barbarian can use magic ... if you multiclass. :P laugh
And that is pure 5e. laugh

You know what I mean... I was talking about a full barbarian. By the way, will Larian allow multiclasses?

Last edited by linkezio; 27/07/21 03:25 PM.
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Originally Posted by linkezio
You know what I mean... I was talking about a full barbarian. By the way, will Larian allow multiclasses?

Yes. They confirmed they plan to implement multiclassing.

I am excited to see your Multiclass Gnome - Barbarian/Sorcerer :P

Last edited by Blackheifer; 27/07/21 03:44 PM.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by linkezio
You know what I mean... I was talking about a full barbarian. By the way, will Larian allow multiclasses?

Yes. They confirmed they plan to implement multiclassing.

I am excited to see your Multiclass Gnome - Barbarian/Sorcerer :P

I'll make warlock multiclass with something else, if there are archetypes from the Xanathar book. Otherwise I will try barbarian with monk.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
When you start arguing about what the actual gravity is like in Faerun you may have exceeded the limits of honest argument. laugh

I noticed you are not refuting any of Melkisdecks "escalating absurdities" argument. You are just using the argumentative equivalent of "nuh uh" (Equivocation). If you are unable to take in new information and modify your opinion based on that then why engage in argument at all? (This question is rhetorical, no answer required)

I was actually on the fence until I read his argument, but frankly I don't see a logical counter to what he pointed out. It doesn't violate any of the most common logical fallacies. Yes I said I am not bothered by stuff I can easily ignore, but I took in new information and adjusted my outlook based on somebody making a really good point. This is called "being open-minded" - as opposed to being "close-minded."

Meanwhile I want to invite you to consider that you are using a lot of logical fallacies yourself - such as Equivocation, Ad Hominin, Appeal to Popular Opinion, False Equivalency and Straw Man Fallacy. Some of this may be due to be a non-english speaker but I would encourage you to take a moment to go over these fallacies and try to avoid using them as argumentative fodder.

To be fair, everyone here is somewhat guilty of abusing these to some extent (even me on occasion) - but I am seeing them in excess from you. When someone says you are arguing in "bad faith" - they are usually saying 1) that you are using a lot of logical fallacies and 2) that the purpose of your argument isn't to change anyone's mind but to cause conflict.

I am not saying any of this to be mean nor am I trying to attack a specific argument with this reply (that would be Ad Hominin- attacking the person not the idea). I usually enjoy reading your arguments, and I welcome differing points - even divisive ones. But if you honestly cannot recognize a good argument made in good faith then what's the point? (again, rhetorical)

Don't listen to him, RagnarokCzD, keep going. I've still got some popcorn left. Don't disappoint me, man. grin

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Also a Keg is not a barrel - its much smaller. (false equivalency)

This is google translator, i also don't have advanced english and i have had to correct this several times (yes, i am able to correct the translator but i am not able to translate).

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Originally Posted by Peranor
Ragnarok, why do you keep linking to 3rd party mods as if those should add something to this discussion?
I must have edited it away ... thanks for mentioning ...
Originaly i said that as long as at least someone will have fun, and as long as such "ridiculous nonsence" will be fully optional (read as: it will be completely avoidable) ... i dont see any problem with any of them, in terms of principle.
(Wich means, i stand my ground even if i concider some of *those* particular examples as totall bull...excrement.)

Also you can read from those links that there allready are people who desire the things that was mentioned (or at least something simmilar), and by numbers of downloads, you can aproximately guess how many of them is there. wink
And if you look at those three specificly, numbers are around 1000 (usualy lot more, except the last one) ... wich is much, much, and once more much more people than is around here fighting for BG-3 purity. smile That was just to point out "majority".

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
When you start arguing about what the actual gravity is like in Faerun you may have exceeded the limits of honest argument. laugh
You have point here ... i realy should have add sarcasm tags there aswell. smile
My bad.

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Yes I said I am not bothered by stuff I can easily ignore, but I took in new information and adjusted my outlook based on somebody making a really good point. This is called "being open-minded" - as opposed to being "close-minded."
I really have serious doubts that "being open-minded" is defined as fighting against anything that dont fit to your scenario ...
But w/e ... you changed your mind, i never wanted to imply that you cannot ... even tho i did apparently. :-/

I dare to skip the rest ... for one it was pure offtopic ... and for two, you said it yourself, no reaction required. smile

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Also a Keg is not a barrel - its much smaller. (false equivalency)
I know ... again, i should have writed that there ...
I was ... distracted lets say, when writing that. -_-

According to Wikipedia (unless i read something wrong ... since all measures there is in Imperial units ... so feel free to corect me), Kegs are usualy 1/2 (or 1/3) size of Barrel ... point of that hyperlink was to show that Keg (really not Barrel, thrust me laugh ) of Gunpowder weights 20lb ...
Therefore: If Keg is suppose to be 1/2 or 1/3 of Barrel ... i dare to say, that Barrel is suppose to wieght between 40 and 60lbs ... but certainly not 600. :-/

That tied to my clearly poorly writen note about gravity ...
Was suppose to point out that i believe that we should stick to the world we are talking about, and dont bring measures from reality to game. :-/

Originally Posted by linkezio
I'm saying that even if they were to analyze the balance while playing, not all players will know what is balanced, even worse for beginners.
That will allways be true ... no matter if there are Barrels, or if Larian delete them all for some reason ...
"Not all players will know what is balanced" ... they certainly will not, aswell as not all players will even care ... i would say that mostly bcs (as this forum shows us in examples) that sometimes people have different deffinition of "balance". :-/
For me, game is NOT balanced around "cheese mechanics" as long as you dont need to use them to overcome its challenges.
For some others (and i shall not name them, even if i could), game is balanced around "cheese mechanics" as long as they simply exists.

Im sorry, if you were trying to say soemthing different, in that case im clearly missing the point here. :-/

Originally Posted by linkezio
And prioritizing fun can keep you from having fun, believe me.
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink.
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink.
If you’re happy and you know it,
Give your brain a chance to blow it.
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink. ^_^

Something like that you mean? laugh
I thrust you. laugh

Originally Posted by linkezio
I said if you choose your own challenges then it becomes more of a story telling than a game.
With that i can agree ...
Even tho im not quite sure if that is presented as good, or bad thing ... i certainly see that approach positive.

Originally Posted by linkezio
You know what I mean... I was talking about a full barbarian.
Well ... right now you can, as long as your Barbarian will use scrolls ...
We still dont know for sure (read as: Nobody from Larian made a statement about this) if that is suppose to be a feature, or Larian just didnt figure any elegant way to block using scrolls for "non-caster" classes so far.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 27/07/21 05:55 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That will allways be true ... no matter if there are Barrels, or if Larian delete them all for some reason ...
"Not all players will know what is balanced" ... they certainly will not, aswell as not all players will even care ... i would say that mostly bcs (as this forum shows us in examples) that sometimes people have different deffinition of "balance". :-/
For me, game is NOT balanced around "cheese mechanics" as long as you dont need to use them to overcome its challenges.
For some others (and i shall not name them, even if i could), game is balanced around "cheese mechanics" as long as they simply exists.

Im sorry, if you were trying to say soemthing different, in that case im clearly missing the point here. :-/

Unlike mathematical situations, there is no definitive balance in games, so they are always updating themselves, besides the question of probability, where each occasion has a different balance, for example, starting a battle between a warrior and a wizard where the warrior is on the wizard's side, it is quite different if they are far apart. So the only way to calculate balance would be to use a very advanced AI.

However, that doesn't mean we have to be calm, as the closest games come to balance is through testing, human feedback and statistics. This is also why Larian collects information about our crashes. And just for being here in this forum discussing this, we are already exercising one of these functions, if Larian reads this.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink.
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink.
If you’re happy and you know it,
Give your brain a chance to blow it.
If you’re happy and you know it, overthink. ^_^

Something like that you mean? laugh
I thrust you. laugh

I'll give you a very practical example, I don't know if you've been playing games since I was a kid, I started when I was 3 years old, I've played all generations of games, from atari to BG3. When I was a kid, I loved cheating and being ultra powerful in games, what I didn't know was that it spoiled the fun in the long run, so I get sick of a lot of games, it made me happy, but it made me sad afterwards, it's one of the reasons I don't get into the drug business.

If Larian leaves BG3 as a simple and easy experience, I won't have that many hours of gameplay.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
With that i can agree ...
Even tho im not quite sure if that is presented as good, or bad thing ... i certainly see that approach positive.

If I want to tell a story, I can get a pen and paper or play D&D for real.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ... right now you can, as long as your Barbarian will use scrolls ...
We still dont know for sure (read as: Nobody from Larian made a statement about this) if that is suppose to be a feature, or Larian just didnt figure any elegant way to block using scrolls for "non-caster" classes so far.

If I'm not mistaken, in the D&D rule, only spellcasters can use scrolls, so it's another one of the things Larian did wrong, not because it was different from D&D, but because it's very broken, sometimes I gather so many scrolls, that there are battles where I can turn any class into a wizard, and besides, the wizard can learn spells from another class, which is also ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
I'm not even gonna react to the rest, cus your really not making any sense.
Well, in that case i shall concider this sentence to be: "I see your opinion and I have no valid arguments against it ... but I just have to say that I still disagree with you, because otherwise it would mean that I realized that I was wrong ... so I will simply try to undermine it by some general and a meaningless statement."
I presume that is fair. smile

That's funny for someone that has tendency to react to half my arguments and say that I make assumptions, while ignoring elaborations on statements.

I assure you it's not because I don't have arguments. The reason is because you lack understanding of the most basic concepts of game design and immersion. Either that, or you are a professional troll. I'm not gonna be able to convince you, you'll always just react with nonsense. Melkisedeck destroyed your whole "just don't use it" argument, but you're still going as if you make good points...

You're still acting as if people just want others to not have fun, while I already explained to you that the presence of this stuff actually affects people's enjoyment. You're making no effort at all to understand this. The stuff you're arguing for is exactly the same, you want it to be perfect for you. Many people want an RPG to be an immersive experience, where the world is believable and their choices matter. You just want a map where everything is allowed and you make your own rules. I suggest you go play Garry's mod, there's pretty much infinite things to try out there.

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Originally Posted by linkezio
When I was a kid, I loved cheating and being ultra powerful in games, what I didn't know was that it spoiled the fun in the long run, so I get sick of a lot of games, it made me happy, but it made me sad afterwards, it's one of the reasons I don't get into the drug business.

If Larian leaves BG3 as a simple and easy experience, I won't have that many hours of gameplay.
I still cant help the feeling that this is incredibly oversimplified ...
You are talking in absolutes ...
There is option to make one of multiple tons of things easier, and even that will happen only if YOU do that. O_o
And just by presence of that option general dificulty of game itself dont change. O_o

Look, right now, Barrels are there and game is not "simply and easy" ... just look around the forum, people are here complaining about Gith, about spider Matriarch, about Minotaurs (well, they did ... not so much lately laugh ), and other encounters ... have you really heared about at least single other example of complaining about "game is too easy" except this specific topic? laugh
Therefore game is clearly not "too easy" even tho Barrels exists ... how could they "make game too easy" if they didnt so far? O_o

And quite honestly, even if someone will get that feeling that presence of Barrels ruined his game ...
I still believe he can blaim himself only. :-/ And yes, that apply even for those people, who dont use them.

Originally Posted by linkezio
If I want to tell a story, I can get a pen and paper or play D&D for real.
Good for you i gues. laugh
Do you know definition of RPG? Aka. Role-playing game? wink

Originally Posted by linkezio
If I'm not mistaken, in the D&D rule, only spellcasters can use scrolls, so it's another one of the things Larian did wrong, not because it was different from D&D, but because it's very broken, sometimes I gather so many scrolls, that there are battles where I can turn any class into a wizard, and besides, the wizard can learn spells from another class, which is also ridiculous.
I dont really know what else to say except what i allready said ... wich, btw apply for both Scrolls and Wizards.
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
We still dont know for sure (read as: Nobody from Larian made a statement about this) if that is suppose to be a feature, or Larian just didnt figure any elegant way to block using scrolls for "non-caster" classes so far.

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Melkisedeck destroyed your whole "just don't use it" argument
This method is in my language called "dementace" ... google translator sais that in english its "disclaim" but that dont feels right.
The whole idea of this method is that its user will use a seemingly similar argument to make completely meaningless and unrelated statements, which people will then associate with the argument, instead of focusing on what the argument was actually expressed about. ...
As I see in the local audience, this is a successful procedure ... unfortunately.
Example:

Original object of argument:
"Barrel of firewine that weigths 40Kg ... cannot be thrown ... and you need at least 16(?)Str and sacrifice major part of your whole carryweight (sometimes even all of it) to at least manipulate it."

Demented oject of argument (quoted):
"Portal opening on player's camp, and having a demon giving explosives with no weight and automatic crossbows."

If you really cant see difference between theese two objects, im affraid that im not the one who ... "lack understanding of the most basic concepts of game design and immersion" to use your own words. wink

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
You're still acting as if people just want others to not have fun,
I never said that ... well, i asked that few times, if that is actualy reason, bcs that i would be able to understand (kind of) ... so i can see where you get this idea.
But i only and repeately claimed that removing something that is fun for me results in me having less fun. I would say that should not require futher explanation. O_o

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
while I already explained to you that the presence of this stuff actually affects people's enjoyment.
No, you didnt explained anything ... you (as many others) stated it, if that is what you mean.
But never told me either why, nor how. O_o

So please, if you really already explained ... quote me anything you wrote that answers this:
Why do you need to force everyone to play the game your prefered way to have your fun?

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
You're making no effort at all to understand this.
Some could say that i make as much effort as you do ...
Or at least, i didnt get much "i understand your point" from the other side ... even tho i must admit that there are rare exceptions ... Blackheifer was one of them, right now i honestly cant remember anyone else, but im sure someone is still there. laugh

//Edit:
Maybe even a little more, because unlike others, I still don't feel the need to lower myself to personal attacks. wink

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
The stuff you're arguing for is exactly the same, you want it to be perfect for you.
I never claimed otherwise ...
Except the situations, where i claimed that my fun is not endangering yours, since you can avoid it easily. :P

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
Many people want an RPG to be an immersive experience, where the world is believable and their choices matter.
Well, im one of them ...
I simply dont concider removing from the game everything that i could potentialy dislike, to be "immersive" in any way. laugh

Originally Posted by Dabedidabe
You just want a map where everything is allowed and you make your own rules.
As before, you said that not me ...
But as long as you keep seeing me like this, i dont blame you for missunderstanding everything i say ... its just mindset. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 28/07/21 03:42 PM.

If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
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