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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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I don't know if it was patched in this or previous patch. As far as I can recall there has been no complaint about Lae'zel throwing the main character. She used to be able to throw my halfling a good distance, now it might be just strength related and I need to level up Lae'zel to get the feature back or it was removed all together. I know I can pick up Us with Lae'zel's starting seventeen strength.
If this was removed, un-nerf it please, there was no reason to remove this.
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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People only talk about barrels and yeah, that was evil, id throw enemies on enemies and could end fights within 2-3 turns xD that was patched for the same reasons as the barrels! But I agree its a little disappointing we cant throw small allies/enemies o: that made some sense when you were using a character with high strenght
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Dec 2020
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You can still throw some enemies. That's how I defeated the frog in the swamp this playthrough. But I'm glad you can no longer kill the owlbear by repeatedly throwing her own cub at her, or start the inner sanctum battle by walking up to Dror Ragzlin and tossing him into the spider pit.
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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Ahahhah yeah instead I keep a character hidden near the treasure room, funnel them at the left side and push him down 8V
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
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Throwing enemies was a big part of the broken element to the mechanic, so with the strength requirements for throwing tightened up, this is less abusable... Unfortunately, this means that you'll need 18 Str to throw halflings now, which I admit, I am a little sad about.
The issue that I currently have is that there are only three grades of throw - can't throw at all, can throw 'a few feet' just out of your melee attack range, and then 'can throw to the ends of the earth and as far as you can see'. Distance you can throw something should really be a function of its weight and your strength, ideally.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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Yep, I think they must use strength to smoothly determine the range of a throw...and to be honest, even with 18 strength, you should not be able to throw anything really weighty (and a regular 70-80kg humanoid is not light...) very far at all. In all my years of PnP D&D, I have never encountered anyone throwing an enemy - unless you count grappling (throwing to the ground?) . Bull rush is sensible: you have momentum behind your dash. But picking up a heavy dead weight and flinging it 10m? Unless you're a giant, that just doesn't make sense.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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Throwing anyone should require you to Grapple them first. Athletics vs. Athletics/Acrobatics contest. Then throw if you win. Grappling
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a Special melee Attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the Grappled condition (see Conditions ). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).
Escaping a Grapple: A Grappled creature can use its action to Escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.
Moving a Grappled Creature: When you move, you can drag or carry the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
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Throwing anyone should require you to Grapple them first. Athletics vs. Athletics/Acrobatics contest. Then throw if you win. Grappling
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a Special melee Attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the Grappled condition (see Conditions ). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).
Escaping a Grapple: A Grappled creature can use its action to Escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.
Moving a Grappled Creature: When you move, you can drag or carry the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. +1 Exactly this. That you could just roll up and throw someone without a check of any kind is insane and broken. Its absurd. Maybe you can make an argument for an ally who wants to be thrown and that you have actual control over - otherwise this will get abused in multiplayer. I 100% celebrated the removal of the ability to throw enemies around, it was a dumb, cheap mechanic that didn't have any place in 5e. Good riddance. Patch 5 has been the best patch I have seen so far as it put an end to these shenanigans and demonstrated a commitment by Larian to take tangible steps to creating an authentic D&D game. This is one of those things that particularly annoyed me because people would do it in multiplayer and think they were being so clever.
Blackheifer
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member
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member
Joined: Dec 2020
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The damage received from being thrown was insanely high as well! The fights requires a lot more thinking now. Definitely more fun.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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Throwing anyone should require you to Grapple them first. Athletics vs. Athletics/Acrobatics contest. Then throw if you win. Grappling
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a Special melee Attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this Attack replaces one of them.
The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the Grappled condition (see Conditions ). The condition specifies the things that end it, and you can release the target whenever you like (no action required).
Escaping a Grapple: A Grappled creature can use its action to Escape. To do so, it must succeed on a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check contested by your Strength (Athletics) check.
Moving a Grappled Creature: When you move, you can drag or carry the Grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you. Sounds good! +1
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
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I'd love functional grapple rules, absolutely. I do think throwing willing allies should be feasible, but unless it's a halfling or a gnome you're throwing, you're still not going to get much distance - though it could be used to emulate boosting someone up a steep rise, or over a longer gap tan they could jump alone, etc. The main reason you see other characters throwing each other in PnP is to get a non-flier in range of something evasive or floaty - and in those cases it relies heavily ont he ready action, which we don't have yet in BG3 (we should... along with the proper reaction system underneath that it requires).
Those celebrating the removal of throwing enemies without a check, beware - it has NOT been removed at all. the strength requirement has been increased, but as long as you meet the new requirements you can still hurl the goblins you don't like half a mile away.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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The surreal distances bother me more than anything. The functionality itself is really cool. But I don't want to throw goblins or other creatures like they are weightless even with 18 strength. It's not easy to throw a living creature let alone one that struggles.
If you want to overpower a feature like that just for giggles, this is the wrong game for that.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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+1 to not being able to freely throw enemies. The game should: - Require a contested check to throw an enemy (athletics vs athletics or acrobatics). You can always throw your allies.
- Scale the thrown distance dependent on thrower's strength and size, and the defender's size. You cannot throw something 2 size categories larger than you. Maybe unless you have STR>20, and maybe characters with STR<14 can't even throw somethone one size larger than them.
There's no need to require a grapple check first; just have the contested check as part of the throw action. Although honestly, Throw should just be reserved for items, and everything character-related should be covered by Shove. I suppose throw gets you more precision in target location(?), but the actions are pretty similar.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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A human with 14 Strength has no business throwing another human in armor anywhere, much less a large size creature. A small creature like a Halfling a short distance, yes.
A PC with 18 Strength has no business throwing an Ogre (Large creature) anywhere but they could throw another medium size creature.
Last edited by 1varangian; 28/07/21 07:18 PM.
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Throwing enemies was a big part of the broken element to the mechanic, so with the strength requirements for throwing tightened up, this is less abusable... Unfortunately, this means that you'll need 18 Str to throw halflings now, which I admit, I am a little sad about.
The issue that I currently have is that there are only three grades of throw - can't throw at all, can throw 'a few feet' just out of your melee attack range, and then 'can throw to the ends of the earth and as far as you can see'. Distance you can throw something should really be a function of its weight and your strength, ideally. Thanks Niara, I was wondering if she just needed leveled up or not. Ya, Str+weight should be a factor on picking people and and throwing. Super crazy that a 18 is required to pick up 40 pounds!!! a average halfling is three feet and weights 40 lbs. no joke, this is from the freebe pdf. If this was real life me a 115lb guy that is 5'6.5'' must be super strong to pick up 40lbs at my job, like super duper strong. Yep, I think they must use strength to smoothly determine the range of a throw...and to be honest, even with 18 strength, you should not be able to throw anything really weighty (and a regular 70-80kg humanoid is not light...) very far at all. In all my years of PnP D&D, I have never encountered anyone throwing an enemy - unless you count grappling (throwing to the ground?) . Bull rush is sensible: you have momentum behind your dash. But picking up a heavy dead weight and flinging it 10m? Unless you're a giant, that just doesn't make sense. It was pretty much a theme for my group, one of my halflings I don't remember which one struggled to climb a rope, I dangled around for 2 minutes before I fell. My toon had to hold on to people and had been carried multiple times through her adventures. Enemy wise, body shields was a thing. Throwing though, not sure been way to long. Edit* Actually now that I'm looking at it, weight in general seems off, looked up chain shirt, and chain shirt in game is 9lbs while one from d&d 5e is 20lbs.
Last edited by fallenj; 29/07/21 02:19 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
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In all fairness "picking up 40 lbs" (note: little less than 20 Kg, for the rest of the civilized world) and being capable of THROWING them few meters away are two very different things.
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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In all fairness "picking up 40 lbs" (note: little less than 20 Kg, for the rest of the civilized world) and being capable of THROWING them few meters away are two very different things. 40lbs really should be that heavy to pick up and toss, even toss a little bit. Right now a 17 strength person cant even pick up a 40lb halfling. Here's a example a average big dog food bag will weigh roughly 36-40lbs. I can pick that up with one hand and throw it.
Last edited by fallenj; 29/07/21 02:25 AM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Dec 2020
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Don't forget to account for the weight of the hypothetical halfling's equipment.
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Don't forget to account for the weight of the hypothetical halfling's equipment. Of course, I actually tried removing the equipment to see if that was it in game.
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