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One thing that made me re-load saves at least 3-4 times, the first time I played through, was Attacks of Opportunity (I know exactly how they work) the interface to tell you when you are going to incur one is not obvious, especially when your screen is looking at an enemy far away, it took awhile to notice the HUD telling me that I was moving to attack.

Fix: A popup that tells you when you are going to incur and Attacks of Opportunity, with an option to turn it off for veterans.

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I also kind of wish there was a pop-up for "do you want to use your reaction" instead of just toggling a button for "go off first trigger."

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Heeeeeell yeah

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Woudln't that be nice.

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I've been thinking about this stuff for a while, the fact that Larian doesn't want interruptions/pop-ups because they consider it "disruptive to the continuity of the action" or something (which is a bit bizarre in a turn based game where the alternative at interjecting the combat with your actions is... To watch NPCs move on their own, if you ask me).

I've came to the conclusion that this is probably a matter of presentation more than mechanics for Larian.
To be more explicit, I think that what they think is more or less: if we are going to implement reactions, they need to look "sleek and cinematic" in line with the rest of the game rather than just being a crude and unappealing "YES OR NO" pop-up over-impressed on the screen on a regular basis.

I'm honestly not sure how I'd solve this. I've been trying to imagine ways they can do this and "make it look good for the casual player", so to speak.
A very quick camera close-up and slow down before prompting you for confirmation?
Offering a short time window like a QTE rather than literally pausing the game?

I'm not really sure what could work without being an even worse problem than the half-baked automated reactions we have now.
I've been mostly thinking about how XCOM 2, which is probably the current pinnacle of production value when it comes to a turn-based tactical, would manage this.
That game has ONE type of reaction that is not automated, and it's a skirmisher skill that simply gives you a "micro-turn inside the enemy turn" instead of an ordinary automated overwatch. But even that is not an exact match, because that's about doing whatever you want with that action, while reactions in D&D are about confirming a specific type of attack on a predefined target.


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+1


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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The only way I can see them implementing Reactions without having a popup is to allow definition of when particular Reactions happen.

Attacks of Opportunity -
Use only when target is not fleeing (Turned, Fear, ect)
Use only when % chance to-hit is >= %.

Counterspell -
Use only when target is casting #spell.
Use only when target is casting >= #Lvl-spell.
Use only when target is casting offensive spell.

Projected Ward -
Use only when target has <= %health.
Use only when target is #class.
Use only when target is attacked with #physical and to-hit is >= %.

Things like this is the only way they can get Reactions to work without a popup. It would make the players have to spend time to setup Reactions before each encounter or during their turn when they were not ready. And allow players to save loadouts for the various Reactions so they can come back to different criteria. Also, multiple criteria would need to be allowed to be setup at the same time.

Example:

Projected Ward -
Criteria #1:
Use only when target is #wizard.

Criteria #2:
Use only when target has <= 50% health.
Use only when target is #rogue.
Use only when target is #ranger.
Use only when target is #cleric.

Criteria #3:
Use only when target has <= 25% health.

All three of these criteria can be set to Projected Ward to allow it to automatically React with Projected Ward to any Wizard in the group, or a party member is <= 50% health and is a Rogue, Ranger, or Cleric, or any party member <= 25%.

These three criteria can be saved as a single profile "Protect Party". When setting up new Reactions, you can attempt to load this profile up into the Reaction being modified and it will apply any reactions that are allowed, so if this profile was loaded to Attack of Opportunity, it would load all them because these are valid targets/actions for it. Honestly, this is a bad example because most Reactions would allow this criteria, but you see what I am getting at.

But, this is the only way I can see this working without a popup for each time a Reaction could be taken.

Last edited by Zyllos; 28/07/21 02:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
I've came to the conclusion that this is probably a matter of presentation more than mechanics for Larian.
To be more explicit, I think that what they think is more or less: if we are going to implement reactions, they need to look "sleek and cinematic" in line with the rest of the game rather than just being a crude and unappealing "YES OR NO" pop-up over-impressed on the screen on a regular basis.

I'm honestly not sure how I'd solve this. I've been trying to imagine ways they can do this and "make it look good for the casual player", so to speak.
"Breach mechanic" from Chimera Squad comes to mind (time stamp 00:44), but I wouldn't want whole zoom in, everytime I need to make a decision. I am sure they could make it look dynamic, while giving players all the time in the world to make the decision. A nice "Woosh" sound, some freeze animation of enemy in action, and your character readying for response and it's all cool again.

Last edited by Wormerine; 28/07/21 03:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
I'm honestly not sure how I'd solve this. I've been trying to imagine ways they can do this and "make it look good for the casual player", so to speak.
A very quick camera close-up and slow down before prompting you for confirmation?
Offering a short time window like a QTE rather than literally pausing the game?

Maybe a bullet time slow-mo thing?

The reaction mechanic is the only thing I really, really dislike because it removes the majority of control, strategy, and control involved with the way Reactions works.

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There is no way they're going to add in a reaction system that slows down the combat. It's clear from this patch that they're trying to speed up the combat as much as feasible. Hell, the animations are almost too fast in my opinion, but i'll take it if it means I'm not just sitting around watching 10 different ai take their turn for 70% of the combat. I say build it in to the mechanics and have it be automated/simplified.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
"Breach mechanic" from Chimera Squad comes to mind (time stamp 00:44), but I wouldn't want whole zoom in, everytime I need to make a decision. I am sure they could make it look dynamic, while giving players all the time in the world to make the decision. A nice "Woosh" sound, some freeze animation of enemy in action, and your character readying for response and it's all cool again.
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Maybe a bullet time slow-mo thing?

The reaction mechanic is the only thing I really, really dislike because it removes the majority of control, strategy, and control involved with the way Reactions works.

You know what? It could actually work as a compromise. Re-watching the Chimera Squad clip somewhat sold me on the idea.

Make some quick (and let me stress it: quick and snappy, PLEASE) zoom-in with slow-mo on the enemy doing his thing (moving away for AoO, casting for counter-spell, etc) and on the player side something intuitive like "Left click to confirm your reaction, right click to skip it".
We would get what we want, which is some more involved reaction system that goes beyond an automated response with a toggle, and Larian could salvage the pretense of maintaining a sleek, mostly-seamless cinematic presentation without those "pesky text pop-up for nerds".

Last edited by Tuco; 28/07/21 04:27 PM.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
There is no way they're going to add in a reaction system that slows down the combat. It's clear from this patch that they're trying to speed up the combat as much as feasible. Hell, the animations are almost too fast in my opinion, but i'll take it if it means I'm not just sitting around watching 10 different ai take their turn for 70% of the combat. I say build it in to the mechanics and have it be automated/simplified.

Doesn't seem like Larian is going all out on speeding up combat to me, nor do I necessarily agree on the animations being too fast.

The Warlock Hex spell is a glaringly obvious missed opportunity for streamlining for instance. Changing the spell to automatically curse all abilities (either full disadvantage or a smaller flat penalty) would shave seconds and annoyance off of almost every round playing with one or two Warlocks. Currently this gets old really fast given Hex is likely the by far most cast spell in the game alongside Hunter's Mark and given the ability curse is a useless time-waster in 99% of gameplay. This is an example of appropriate homebrew (cRPG adaptation), but Larian isn't having it for some reason, 5 patches in and all suggestions have thus far been ignored.

The Dash animation is another even more obvious example; making Dash a magical caster animation is a needless waste of time besides being unimmersive and counter-intuitive. If you sprint, you don't waste seconds summoning shining inner strength - you simply get on with it. In general, non-magical animations should be shortened and made to look more natural.

Counterspell, even attack of opportunity, could like others have mentioned, be made into a zoomed-in slow-mo interrupt mechanic similar to Mass Effect's paragon/renegade interrupt system. Obtrusive and unimmersive reaction mechanics definitely aren't a necessity.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
There is no way they're going to add in a reaction system that slows down the combat. It's clear from this patch that they're trying to speed up the combat as much as feasible. Hell, the animations are almost too fast in my opinion, but i'll take it if it means I'm not just sitting around watching 10 different ai take their turn for 70% of the combat. I say build it in to the mechanics and have it be automated/simplified.

Doesn't seem like Larian is going all out on speeding up combat to me, nor do I necessarily agree on the animations being too fast.

The Warlock Hex spell is a glaringly obvious missed opportunity for streamlining for instance. Changing the spell to automatically curse all abilities (either full disadvantage or a smaller flat penalty) would shave seconds and annoyance off of almost every round playing with one or two Warlocks. Currently this gets old really fast given Hex is likely the by far most cast spell in the game alongside Hunter's Mark and given the ability curse is a useless time-waster in 99% of gameplay. This is an example of appropriate homebrew (cRPG adaptation), but Larian isn't having it for some reason, 5 patches in and all suggestions have thus far been ignored.

The Dash animation is another even more obvious example; making Dash a magical caster animation is a needless waste of time besides being unimmersive and counter-intuitive. If you sprint, you don't waste seconds summoning shining inner strength - you simply get on with it. In general, non-magical animations should be shortened and made to look more natural.
Big agree on Hex and Dash. Hexing skill checks rarely comes into play anyway. And, Dash should just make a noise (whoosh sound, who knows...) and show the word dash, and the enemy can already be running while the word displays.

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Just like in Solasta. Actually, BG3 should borrow many features from Solasta.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
There is no way they're going to add in a reaction system that slows down the combat.

A proper reaction system, done well, does not, and will not slow down the pace of combat at all. It functionally speeds it up and heightens the degree of player interaction at the same time. This has been explained, illustrated, demonstrated and quite solidly proven multiple times now, again and again. Please stop saying this as though it's some kind of argument when it's been repeatedly demonstrated to not be true at all.

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unless you have NO control over the reaction, the combat is going to be slowed down by a player controlled reaction system. Go ahead and show me how a 2 minute long fight would be shortened by adding in more player input. Adding in more input by the user is going to add time to combat, so unless you're removing something that is already in the game, it's going to be slower.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
unless you have NO control over the reaction, the combat is going to be slowed down by a player controlled reaction system. Go ahead and show me how a 2 minute long fight would be shortened by adding in more player input. Adding in more input by the user is going to add time to combat, so unless you're removing something that is already in the game, it's going to be slower.
Only slowed down by a keyboard input though. That's still faster than a QTE and the reward for giving the player input outweighs any slowdown from a keystroke.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
There is no way they're going to add in a reaction system that slows down the combat.

A proper reaction system, done well, does not, and will not slow down the pace of combat at all. It functionally speeds it up and heightens the degree of player interaction at the same time. This has been explained, illustrated, demonstrated and quite solidly proven multiple times now, again and again. Please stop saying this as though it's some kind of argument when it's been repeatedly demonstrated to not be true at all.

No it hasn't, your proper reaction system vs the passive toggle will indeed slow down combat compared to what we have now. Its human reaction vs automated reaction. Humans can't beat robots, pretty sure this was a kids story...

Pretty sure we just had this talk in a previous thread

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
unless you have NO control over the reaction, the combat is going to be slowed down by a player controlled reaction system. Go ahead and show me how a 2 minute long fight would be shortened by adding in more player input. Adding in more input by the user is going to add time to combat, so unless you're removing something that is already in the game, it's going to be slower.

Sure thing, here you go: This thread Here addresses your concerns. It contains several video links that show a near-5e combat system which involves a responsive reaction and player decision point system as part of its base mechanics. The videos show several things, the most stand out of which are that the ability to use and control reactions in a player-directed way heightens interactivity, and speeds up the overall pace and progression of combat compared to how those fights would run without that system in place, and leaving players to sit entirely passively through enemy turns without being able to react or curtail them flexibly. It also shows quite clearly that the use of the reaction system doesn't add to combat time in any noticeable way, and that compared to longer delays, such as those taken by an already quick-deciding player to decide upon their moves each turn, the use of reactions was insignificantly small in terms of time consumption. Have a look at the thread, have a look at the videos, and if your opinion remains the same, I'd welcome you to explain how and why, with respect to what's been shown.

Originally Posted by fallenj
Pretty sure we just had this talk in a previous thread

Yes, we did, and you had no legitimate response there either, and did not acknowledge the demonstrations and proofs that were shown, and simply reiterated your stance without evidence or back up in the face of actual demonstrations that showed the falsehood of your assertion. Please actually acknowledge the proofs offered and give your equally well demonstrated counter to them, beyond blind assertion to the contrary, which you still, despite several iterations of this discussion, have never done. The demonstrations provided actively prove the opposite of what you're saying, and your only response is just to assert your stance again in the face of them. You never respond to the actual arguments or demonstrations made; the thread is still there waiting for you to do that. All you're doing by continuing to assert this every time it comes up is spreading wilful misinformation. Please don't.

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i feel like I'm missing something. You're basically saying they need to just redo their entire combat and make it like Solasta. that's NOT going to happen. If they were to implement player controlled reactions TO THIS GAME CURRENTLY, it would be SLOWER than it is right now. Of course if they completely changed the entire system so that reactions were seamlessly integrated into the entire system, it could possibly be as fast as it is now, but then it would be a completely different system.

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