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Maybe it is just me but Magic Scrolls should only be able to be used by corresponding class and not just any character.

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This has been brought up many times. No comments from Larian if they want it that way or when it's going to be fixed. Then again they also gave Rogue's Cunning Action to everyone and DOS has a classless class system so they just might hate D&D's distinctive classes.

It does undermine spellcasting classes and also multiclassing as those classes to get this ability. Fighters with 8 Intelligence vocalizing the spell incantations also does a really good job of making magic seem nothing special in Forgotten Realms. Anyone can be a mage and read that stuff.

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My thought is in the back end of the mechanics and whatnot of the code, this part of the game as not been developed as of yet because DOS was used as the base.

I am hopeful that they will update this because it just seems too much out of place.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
This has been brought up many times. No comments from Larian if they want it that way or when it's going to be fixed. Then again they also gave Rogue's Cunning Action to everyone and DOS has a classless class system so they just might hate D&D's distinctive classes.

It does undermine spellcasting classes and also multiclassing as those classes to get this ability. Fighters with 8 Intelligence vocalizing the spell incantations also does a really good job of making magic seem nothing special in Forgotten Realms. Anyone can be a mage and read that stuff.

Its too early to assume what Larian will do with the feedback we have given, so far they proven to check what the community brought up. A lot of the arguments made a lot of sense and I’m sure in time they will make adjustement.

Last edited by Kryldost; 28/07/21 06:15 PM.
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I do like the ability for non-casters (and casters who don't have that spell on their spell list) to be able to read scrolls, but it definitely should be a difficult skill check. There's no "Use Magic Device" in 5e, so maybe an Arcana check with DC = 15 + spell level? A failure results in the loss of the scroll.

A 12-Int, level-5 fighter with proficiency in Arcana would then have a ~45% chance to successfully cast a 1st-level spell, which seems fair. Limiting enough that you wouldn't regularly do it, but in certain scenarios taking the risk might be worth it. A rogue with arcana expertise would have an even better chance, which allows them to benefit more from their skill-monkey role.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I do like the ability for non-casters (and casters who don't have that spell on their spell list) to be able to read scrolls, but it definitely should be a difficult skill check. There's no "Use Magic Device" in 5e, so maybe an Arcana check with DC = 15 + spell level? A failure results in the loss of the scroll.

A 12-Int, level-5 fighter with proficiency in Arcana would then have a ~45% chance to successfully cast a 1st-level spell, which seems fair. Limiting enough that you wouldn't regularly do it, but in certain scenarios taking the risk might be worth it. A rogue with arcana expertise would have an even better chance, which allows them to benefit more from their skill-monkey role.
But there is the Magic Initiate feat and Multi-classing which mechanically represent just that: dabbling with magic.

Arcana refers to knowing about magic, not actual skills with it, and it would be good to keep it that way so things don't get mixed up.

Last edited by 1varangian; 28/07/21 06:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I do like the ability for non-casters (and casters who don't have that spell on their spell list) to be able to read scrolls, but it definitely should be a difficult skill check. There's no "Use Magic Device" in 5e, so maybe an Arcana check with DC = 15 + spell level? A failure results in the loss of the scroll. [...]
But there is the Magic Initiate feat and Multi-classing which mechanically represent just that: dabbling with magic.

Arcana refers to knowing about magic, not actual skills with it, and it would be good to keep it that way so things don't get mixed up.
That's why I'd want the DC to be high-ish, so that this doesn't replace that feat or multi-classing. The description of a spell scroll is: "a spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher" and that the spell not being on your list makes the scroll "unintelligible." I'd argue that Arcana (knowing about magic) is the appropriate skill to be able to read that cipher. Perhaps you, in your academic studies of magic, came across that cipher/those words and are able to read them correctly.

The spell is already in the scroll; so as long as you can read it, you can cast it. You basically just are following a recipe.

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Actually even Wizards and Clerics have to roll an Int or Wis check in 5e if the scroll level is higher than they can normally cast. DC13 Int check for a Fireball before you can cast it yourself so only 60% chance for a level 4 Wizard to get it off the scroll. I'm not saying BG3 should be as strict unless they really plan to shower the player with scrolls. But that's the spirit of the magic system.

I'm not warming up to allowing non-magical classes cast spells by just rolling skill checks. Wizard spells are written in an obscure language they spend a long time learning, it's not english as we can hear when spells are cast. Hearing Lae'zel cast spells like Gale or Shadowheart just feels off. The difficulty and mystery surrounding Arcane spellcasting is what makes it cool and interesting in the setting. If any farmer can cast Fireballs from scrolls magic becomes mundane.

Last edited by 1varangian; 28/07/21 07:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Actually even Wizards and Clerics have to roll an Int or Wis check in 5e if the scroll level is higher than they can normally cast. DC13 Int check for a Fireball before you can cast it yourself so only 60% chance for a level 4 Wizard to get it off the scroll. I'm not saying BG3 should be as strict unless they really plan to shower the player with scrolls. But that's the spirit of the magic system.

I'm not warming up to allowing non-magical classes cast spells by just rolling skill checks. Wizard spells are written in an obscure language they spend a long time learning, it's not english as we can hear when spells are cast. Hearing Lae'zel cast spells like Gale or Shadowheart just feels off. The difficulty and mystery surrounding Arcane spellcasting is what makes it cool and interesting in the setting. If any farmer can cast Fireballs from scrolls magic becomes mundane.
Oh, I misread the "scroll with level higher than can normally can cast" check. I knew that they had to make a roll, but I didn't realize that it was a pure ability modifier check and doesn't get proficiency. That makes the check much more difficult.

I still want all characters to be able to attempt to use scrolls with an Arcana check, but the DC would have to be higher or else it'd be unfair to casters. DC 18+spell level maybe? That would still be possible, but we're getting close to the "difficult enough that it would never be used" territory, in which case why bother?

At the very least, I'd prefer requiring Arcana checks over just allowing everyone to freely use scrolls. But if Larian also implements the higher-level-spell-scroll rules, then I suppose I'm fine with also preventing non-casters from using scrolls at all.

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+1


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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I'd prefer the actual D&D rules on this, as with many other things Larian have changed.

I don't think Larian fully understand that what makes the class based system work is that other classes can't steal your shtick. Wizards are special because Fighters and Rogues can't cast spells or use scrolls. Clerics are unique because Wizards can't learn their spells. Rogues are cool and distinctive because no one else can Hide or Disengage as a Bonus Action.

And D&D has all the rules to blend these class perks and allow customized character builds in a balanced way already. They don't need to add any freebies. I wish they would just... stop.

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Originally Posted by rmoroch
Maybe it is just me but Magic Scrolls should only be able to be used by corresponding class and not just any character.

Because like, 80% of tables homebrew it to be this way.

AND the magical tattoos introduced by Tasha's work this way, so a magic item that functions exactly like how scrolls are working right now in Baldur's Gate 3 is according to the developers of 5e... a balanced mechanic.

Every class being able to use scrolls is fine, and thats the way it should have always been.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Wizard spells are written in an obscure language they spend a long time learning, it's not english as we can hear when spells are cast. Hearing Lae'zel cast spells like Gale or Shadowheart just feels off. The difficulty and mystery surrounding Arcane spellcasting is what makes it cool and interesting in the setting. If any farmer can cast Fireballs from scrolls magic becomes mundane.

I agree about the spell scrolls - and my expectation is that this is just not been implemented yet rather than they are planning to just let everybody use scrolls.

Following on what you were saying - I understand the scrolls themselves are written in Draconic, Celestial, Netherese and Demonic - its not just a recipe written in common like making chicken soup. If you don't pronounce that shit right you may catch fire, explode, or be polymorphed into a slug - like rolling on the Wild Magic table but only negative outcomes.


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Larian is aware that it's an error, but I think that they just haven't put changing the code for that high enough on the priority list. At least that's what makes the most sense to me. I obviously don't know how the code for scroll usage works, so maybe it's more complicated than I think it is.

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work i progress reasons ? No feedback on that as of yet. i'm sure they now by now it's to good.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I do like the ability for non-casters (and casters who don't have that spell on their spell list) to be able to read scrolls, but it definitely should be a difficult skill check. There's no "Use Magic Device" in 5e, so maybe an Arcana check with DC = 15 + spell level? A failure results in the loss of the scroll.

A 12-Int, level-5 fighter with proficiency in Arcana would then have a ~45% chance to successfully cast a 1st-level spell, which seems fair. Limiting enough that you wouldn't regularly do it, but in certain scenarios taking the risk might be worth it. A rogue with arcana expertise would have an even better chance, which allows them to benefit more from their skill-monkey role.

Another homebrew suggestion which sucks.

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Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I do like the ability for non-casters (and casters who don't have that spell on their spell list) to be able to read scrolls, but it definitely should be a difficult skill check. There's no "Use Magic Device" in 5e, so maybe an Arcana check with DC = 15 + spell level? A failure results in the loss of the scroll.

A 12-Int, level-5 fighter with proficiency in Arcana would then have a ~45% chance to successfully cast a 1st-level spell, which seems fair. Limiting enough that you wouldn't regularly do it, but in certain scenarios taking the risk might be worth it. A rogue with arcana expertise would have an even better chance, which allows them to benefit more from their skill-monkey role.

Another homebrew suggestion which sucks.
This is like 6 posts old in the specific conversation chain, but alright. Do you not like the concept of UMD at all, or do you think that it only made sense in previous D&D editions but not in 5e ('s lore, classes, magic system)?
This question is also to you @1varangian.

Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Following on what you were saying - I understand the scrolls themselves are written in Draconic, Celestial, Netherese and Demonic - its not just a recipe written in common like making chicken soup. If you don't pronounce that shit right you may catch fire, explode, or be polymorphed into a slug - like rolling on the Wild Magic table but only negative outcomes.
Scrolls are "written in a mystical cipher," which may be Draconic+etc, sure. And I agree that it's dangerous if you get it wrong, but it's possible you get it right. The more familiar you are with mystical ciphers (arcana) and languages (intelligence), the higher chances of being able to pronounce it correctly.

So would you want a penalty (roll on a negative-only WM table) if you fail the arcana check to use a scroll? Or for simplicity, if the spell is harmful just have it go off in your face and if it's a buff spell (Bess), make it a negative effect (Bane).

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Following on what you were saying - I understand the scrolls themselves are written in Draconic, Celestial, Netherese and Demonic - its not just a recipe written in common like making chicken soup. If you don't pronounce that shit right you may catch fire, explode, or be polymorphed into a slug - like rolling on the Wild Magic table but only negative outcomes.
Scrolls are "written in a mystical cipher," which may be Draconic+etc, sure. And I agree that it's dangerous if you get it wrong, but it's possible you get it right. The more familiar you are with mystical ciphers (arcana) and languages (intelligence), the higher chances of being able to pronounce it correctly.

So would you want a penalty (roll on a negative-only WM table) if you fail the arcana check to use a scroll? Or for simplicity, if the spell is harmful just have it go off in your face and if it's a buff spell (Bess), make it a negative effect (Bane).


I am fine sticking with RAW and saying you just can't use them unless you are a class that can use them or have multiclassed into a class that can.

"If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible."

There is also some stuff about Spell DC to cast a scroll with a higher spell level than you have. I'd be content if we just got the spell list limitations implemented.


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+1 this needs to be fixed, along with Wizards learning every spells.

Last edited by Topgoon; 01/08/21 02:50 PM.
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And less scrolls in the world overall, especially in random crates or illogical places please.

+ a Scroll Case button for casters in the main UI that would automatically sort all scrolls. Next to Potion Belt and Quiver buttons which would sort the other type of consumables.

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