Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Scrolls - Why Everyone Can use them

I will say that I feel as though other classes shouldn't be able to use Cleric spell scrolls at all. A difficult arcana skill check for other classes to use a wizard scroll would make sense since technically anyone can learn to be a wizard with enough dedication and study. Cleric spells however are supposed to require the backing of a god to use, aren't they? Do tell me if I'm wrong.

Well, the issue with that is there are very few spells that are ONLY spells one class can cast. There is typically a lot of overlap between classes for the majority of spells in 5e, with only a handful of spells that are actually unique to one class.

One class or archetype that gets completely shafted by everyone being able to use scrolls is the Eldritch Knight.

EK doesn't begin to compare against a Battlemaster who gets access to the same spells in addition to their superiority die combat moves. Using spells should be the EK's unique class ability inside the Fighter class and a reason to pick it over something else.

Letting everyone cast spells from scrolls kills flavor as much as it kills balance. Why aren't they correcting this?

People that had the corresponding skill could use scrolls if they passed there skill check in 3.5. I don't know how it is in 5e though, where's Niara when you need her/him.

@Gray Ghost - You don't need faith to cast from a scroll, its just a spell turned into a tool. Artificers used to be tool masters as most of there class features were just that, but that was in 3.5 though.

@1varangian - I'm guessing they'll adjust spell casting when the matching classes come out, they did this for ranger when they were brought out druid. Figuring Bard or sorcerer well see changes to how spells are handled, this is just me guessing though.

@Nation - thx for the fast reply below.

lol, upon request though niara can add further clarity if needed - this was pulled from the recent thread that was discussing throwing healing potions to heal which waded briefly into the who can use scrolls and scroll/spell scroll discussion, altho idk if larian is intending to observe these 5e rules and class specific spell lists or to incorporate more homebrew.

Thanks for that <.< >.>
Just to add some extra background:

Without a special class feature, you can only a spell scroll (that is, a scroll with a specific spell on it, from a particular class list), if you have that spell on your class list. If you DO, then you can cast the spell from the scroll automatically, using the Spell's casting time - so a scroll of feather fall would be used as a reaction, as odd a mental picture as that makes. If the spell is of a level higher than you can cast normally (say a 4th level spell when you can only cast 3rds) you can make a check using your spellcasting ability modifier (Not an Arcana check; a cleric, for example, would roll a d20 + wisdom modifier to use a high level cleric scroll) against a DC equal to 10 + the level of the spell (So a low-level cleric trying to cast Raise Dead off a scroll would need to roll against a DC 15, as Raise dead is 5th level). If you're interrupted, the spell and scroll are not lost, but if you cast it and fail the check then it is. Material costs are not required for a spell scroll - they were already paid when the spell scroll was created. This is also why others who might not be faithful to the same god, or in edge cases not have any clerical ability at all, can still cast such spells without a divine connection, if the spell is otherwise on their list (divine soul sorcerers, theurgist wizards, cheeky bards, etc).

There are a handful of situations that allow characters to cast spells from scrolls in unexpected circumstances. The most common is when you add spells to your class spell list from a feature. Spells on the cleric list "count as sorcerer spells" for a divine soul sorcerer, for example. Spells a bard takes with magical secrets "count as bard spells" for that bard. Beyond that thief rogues can also get 'Use Magic Item', which allows them to ignore certain requirements on magic items, one of which is class - so a thief rogue could use any spell scroll, but they'd have to make the check, and their spellcasting ability modifier, since they don't have any spellcasting ability, is +0.

There is work still being done on the magic and casting system, and they've shown a willingness to bring things into 5e form over time, so hopefully when the magic rework comes out this will be rectified with that.

(I respond to any term of reference, and it's no big problem, but female terms are accurate in you're uncertain fallen ^.^ no biggie)

Freaking hope they will change this crap to PHB rules. : /

I'm just wondering why they have such fundamental base rules wrong here. Something that has also persisted for 5 major patches and a full year since EA release.

I mean.. they had to code in scroll use somehow already, and they chose to implement it against D&D rules. That leads me to believe they don't like the D&D system and are intentionally going against it or testing the waters to transform 5e towards a more classless system like DOS. (also disengage and hide as BA for everyone etc.)

They could always just come out and say "don't worry, scrolls for everyone is a remnant of the Divinity engine we just haven't gotten around to fixing yet because it's planned further down the line". But they're not going to do that because they don't share information. They have time to dress up as druids and make LARP videos, I wish they had some time to communicate as well. Because in the end we are more interested in how the game will play.

@Niara Thanks and gotcha

I've assumed that allowing everyone to cast from scrolls was a device to compensate for the limited choice of classes and subclasses and our inability to multiclass during early access. We also have a limited choice of companions. If anyone can still cast from any scroll at release, I'd see that as a problem, but for now it really doesn't upset me.

I could see Larian going either way with this. On the one hand it seems like it should be a relatively easy fix and they have already made adjustments to other parts of the game in response to feedback. On the other hand Larian has a longstanding preference to giving players flexibility and options to be creative, so I could see them leaving something like this to the modding community.

+1 Completely agree. It should be exclusive to spell casters. There are other things too that I feel should be limited to a specific class or classes such as picking locks.

Actually, it shouldn't, I'd rather not get stuck with one character on the team just because he can open locks.

I'm ok with Avyna's suggestion as long as there are other ways to solve the problem, like breaking the door, chest etc that is locked or casting the spell Knock.

But, I can understand you Rhobar too. Unlike trying to understand a scroll in a language you're not proficient with, trying to pick a lock is something everyone can do. But unless they're experienced with that kind of activity. they shouldn't expect to succeed very often.

Is that even a thing in tabletop 5e?

No, it is not ^.^

I can understand that but one of the traits of a rogue is lock picking, it's common in every rpg. It's even in the DnD Player's Handbook, where only the rogues have the thieves tool.

Yes, but I guess it depends on your DM if they want to be explicit or they homebrew it.

No, Lady, Rogues being the only ones to pick locks is NOT part of 5e in any way. Please don't spread misinformation.

I see you have started again, Niara. Stop accusing me of things because you don't agree. I'm not doing this with you. What I wrote is based from the Player Handbook. Every class has hit points and proficiencies on the chapter about classes but only the rogues says thieves kit on tools. The other classes don't have that.