Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
As far as thieves' tools and RAW are concerned, I want to point out a couple of things which, I believe, have not been mentioned yet.

Originally Posted by Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything, p10 (ch1, Character Options ; Artificer class)
PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Thieves' tools, tinker's tools, one type of arti­san's tools of your choice
Saving Throws: Constitution, Intelligence
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, History, In­vestigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Sleight of Hand

This is clearly RAW, but admittedly this class is not in the Players' Handbook (PHB), so let me bring up information from the PHB. There is a paragraph called "Customizing a background" on p125, which states that player groups are free to create any Background they want, giving their custom Background a total of two tool proficiencies or languages. But that sounds like it may be considered homebrew territory for some purists. The following is not.

Originally Posted by PHB, p129 (ch4, Personality And Background ; Backgrounds ; Criminal)
Skill Proficiencies: Deception, Stealth
Tool Proficiencies: One type of gaming set, thieves' tools
Equipment: A crowbar, a set of dark common clothes including a hood, and a pouch containing 15 gp

Originally Posted by PHB, p141 (ch4, Personality And Background ; Backgrounds ; Urchin)
Skill Proficiencies: Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Tool Proficiencies: Disguise kit, thieves' tools
Equipment: A small knife, a map of the city you grew up in, a pet mouse, a token to remember your parents by, a set of common clothes, and a pouch containing 10 gp

So, according to the rules, being good (in particular, proficient) at picking locks and disarming traps is not exclusive the the Rogues class.

I appreciate your input. Isn't the Artificer a different type of rogue, like a subclass? I know in DnD they have them separate but in fantasy settings, I've usually see them as a subclass of Rogue. To me personally, I wouldn't want other classes to do what a Rogue is mostly known for because then it defeats the purpose of having a rogue in your group if everyone can do everything. It's the same for any class. I would like each class to remain unique. This would go back to the whole spell scroll situation. It should remain with only spell casters.

Joined: Oct 2021
member
Online Content
member
Joined: Oct 2021
Originally Posted by Niara
No, it is not ^.^


Tks for answering. I've never played 5e tabletop, in fact to give away my advanced age the last TT I played was AD&D!

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
The level 2 transmutation spell "Knock" negates the need for lockpick and even opens magical locks/barriers for 10 minutes. The only caveat is that "knock" creates a HUGE audible knock sound that can be heard for 300ft. Sneak and lockpick are functions of the rouge and they always have both skills by default. Any other class wanting to perfrom these skills normally muct sacrifice something potentially more valuable to their specific calss attributes.

The rouge using the arcane tricktser subclass is a master at avoiding traps, opening locks, stealth etc. using a combination of skill and arcane magic. Currently the arcane trickster in BG3 is missing half of its kit and spells. His mage hand can pick locks, pick pockets, disarm traps and he/she can use knock, invisibility, greater invisibility etc.

As far as I am aware (unless it changed) scrolls are class AND level specific and not "generic" spells anyone can cast. There are exceptions, at 13th level the generic rouge gets the "use magical item" skill which allows them to decipher and use spells of any calss or level. There are other classes/subclasses that can use them this is just an example.

I mean these rules are ok for EA as you can only get to level 4 but later on to levels 5-6-7-8-9.... it will become a mess of balance issues and create one size fits all classes doing the game a great diservice.

Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
It all goes back to "We need a rule system more faithful to 5e."

Bottom line. The game needs it.

Otherwise, it's a mess.

I'm actually more hopeful that we'll get it than others seem to think. EA is a test zone. So, I wonder if we're not getting 5e so much because they're testing a bunch of homebrew to see what works and what doesn't.

Here's hoping anyway.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
As far as thieves' tools and RAW are concerned, I want to point out a couple of things which, I believe, have not been mentioned yet.

Originally Posted by Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything, p10 (ch1, Character Options ; Artificer class)
PROFICIENCIES
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Thieves' tools, tinker's tools, one type of arti­san's tools of your choice
Saving Throws: Constitution, Intelligence
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, History, In­vestigation, Medicine, Nature, Perception, Sleight of Hand

This is clearly RAW, but admittedly this class is not in the Players' Handbook (PHB), so let me bring up information from the PHB. There is a paragraph called "Customizing a background" on p125, which states that player groups are free to create any Background they want, giving their custom Background a total of two tool proficiencies or languages. But that sounds like it may be considered homebrew territory for some purists. The following is not.

Originally Posted by PHB, p129 (ch4, Personality And Background ; Backgrounds ; Criminal)
Skill Proficiencies: Deception, Stealth
Tool Proficiencies: One type of gaming set, thieves' tools
Equipment: A crowbar, a set of dark common clothes including a hood, and a pouch containing 15 gp

Originally Posted by PHB, p141 (ch4, Personality And Background ; Backgrounds ; Urchin)
Skill Proficiencies: Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Tool Proficiencies: Disguise kit, thieves' tools
Equipment: A small knife, a map of the city you grew up in, a pet mouse, a token to remember your parents by, a set of common clothes, and a pouch containing 10 gp

So, according to the rules, being good (in particular, proficient) at picking locks and disarming traps is not exclusive the the Rogues class.

I appreciate your input. Isn't the Artificer a different type of rogue, like a subclass? I know in DnD they have them separate but in fantasy settings, I've usually see them as a subclass of Rogue.

No, the Artificer is it's own full class, and it is a crafter/inventor wizard-engineer themed archetype. It's subclasses are Alchemist, Armourer, Artillerist, and Battlesmith.


Optimistically Apocalyptic
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar
The level 2 transmutation spell "Knock" negates the need for lockpick and even opens magical locks/barriers for 10 minutes. The only caveat is that "knock" creates a HUGE audible knock sound that can be heard for 300ft. Sneak and lockpick are functions of the rouge and they always have both skills by default. Any other class wanting to perfrom these skills normally muct sacrifice something potentially more valuable to their specific calss attributes.

The rouge using the arcane tricktser subclass is a master at avoiding traps, opening locks, stealth etc. using a combination of skill and arcane magic. Currently the arcane trickster in BG3 is missing half of its kit and spells. His mage hand can pick locks, pick pockets, disarm traps and he/she can use knock, invisibility, greater invisibility etc.

As far as I am aware (unless it changed) scrolls are class AND level specific and not "generic" spells anyone can cast. There are exceptions, at 13th level the generic rouge gets the "use magical item" skill which allows them to decipher and use spells of any calss or level. There are other classes/subclasses that can use them this is just an example.

I mean these rules are ok for EA as you can only get to level 4 but later on to levels 5-6-7-8-9.... it will become a mess of balance issues and create one size fits all classes doing the game a great diservice.

+1 Exactly

Joined: Jan 2009
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
I also think that Rogues should get their Expertise and proficiency in Thieves Tools added. The last time I checked, picking locks instead used Sleight of Hand. I feel like that tying lockpicking proficiency to SoH instead of TT acts as a bit of a skill tax on the Rogue. Admittedly Rogues do get more skills than others, but I see no reason why they shouldn't get TT proficiency.

That said, I think I've also seen some descriptions which suggest that other types of tools will be added, like herbalism kits, so perhaps when tools are added, Rogues will gain proficiency in the Thieves Tools.

I think the best solution would be to give Rogues proficiency in Thieves Tools and keep Sleight of Hand also granting proficency with Thieves Tools. That is homebrew, but it allows for more classes to have access to proficiency in Thieves Tools without tying themselves to that background, while also not being a skill tax on the Rogue which goes against the PHB.

***

I also think that with the exception of Revivify scrolls, classes should only be able to use scrolls with spells from their class spell lists. I think this will be in eventually, but right now it apparently isn't high enough priority or is more complicated to implement than expected.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Online Embarrased
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by Stabbey
I also think that with the exception of Revivify scrolls, classes should only be able to use scrolls with spells from their class spell lists. I think this will be in eventually, but right now it apparently isn't high enough priority or is more complicated to implement than expected.
On the other hand why bother with limiting this scroll for Cleric and maybe Druid if you have ressurecter in camp.


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Online Content
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Stabbey
I also think that with the exception of Revivify scrolls, classes should only be able to use scrolls with spells from their class spell lists. I think this will be in eventually, but right now it apparently isn't high enough priority or is more complicated to implement than expected.
On the other hand why bother with limiting this scroll for Cleric and maybe Druid if you have ressurecter in camp.

By the way, they might have solved it better

Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5