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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
For the record, these are things that Swen has said:

From https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/larian-interview
Originally Posted by Swen
"BG3 is based on the fifth edition [of D&D]. We started by setting out the ruleset very meticulously, and then seeing what worked and what didn’t work – because it is a videogame, and D&D was made to play as a tabletop game. So for the things that didn’t work, we came up with solutions."

In a different link (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...-turn-based-rpgs-and-dreams-coming-true/) Swen's words are reported as:
Originally Posted by Swen
"We started by taking the ruleset that's in the Player's Handbook. We ported it as faithfully as we could, then there were some number of things that we saw that doesn't work that well, and so we started looking for solutions to do that...."

Another: https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/06/...es-place-after-dds-descent-into-avernus/
Originally Posted by Swen
“We started with a very rigorous port of the ruleset. Then we started looking at what worked and what didn’t work. Because obviously, it’s a video game, so not everything translates very well. We modified where it made sense to start modifying,” Vincke said.

The argument is that obviously Larian/Swen didn't begin with a faithful (& "very meticulous" & "very rigorous") port of the rules, because there are many 5e mechanics not originally present in BG3 that do work well in Solasta. Eg., reactions and ready actions, as well as having dodge/disengage/hide be full actions. Plus more.
So either:
- Larian is lying, and they didn't begin with a faithful, meticulous, and rigorous implementation of 5e before changing things that didn't work.
- Larian has deluded themselves, believing they began with a faithful implementation when in reality they didn't.
- Larian did begin with a truly faithful adaptation, but is too set in its ways and thus removed/modified many 5e mechanics that successfully worked in Solasta, but that didn't match with Larian's idea of good.

This last point isn't bad by itself; BG3 and Solasta are different games so it isn't necessarily true that what's good in one game is good in the other. But EA began with cantrips creating surfaces, which Larian then realized was a bad idea. Did Larian really begin with 5e rules, change cantrips to creating surfaces, and then change them back after the overwhelmingly negative feedback? Or did Larian skip that first step and start with surface-creating cantrips because surfaces is what they know? And if Larian started with a meticulous implementation of 5e, where is the "dodge" action?

So much this!!!

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They could and more likely did start with raw 5e implementation in prototype. And it's not something that normally goes into final product.

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So you think they had resting system, spell system, reaction system, action economy, ready action, feats, monsters etc. all implemented according to 5e RAW and then decided to kick 90% of it out, and implement 50% again but homebrewed?

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Originally Posted by daMichi
So you think they had resting system, spell system, reaction system, action economy, ready action, feats, monsters etc. all implemented according to 5e RAW and then decided to kick 90% of it out, and implement 50% again but homebrewed?
Just read about games prototyping. Google knows.

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Ok, it seems they tested that, IF they did prototyping, and Larian did not like the 5e mechanics, but are now stepping back from that stance, at least a little bit.

So hopefully - imho - they will continue to walk in that direction.

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The main issue I think was the RTWP crowd. They made a real big fuss about turn-based combat being a sluggish drag, so Larian's first initiative was to create as dynamic and swift of a combat system as they could, so they erased all the features that would slow down combat (reactions being the main victim here).

I do think that at the end of the development progress, they will see that reactions are pretty vital for the 5e system and will include them.

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Sigh first I need to defend more realistic agains ultra optimiotic posters view saying that NO all subclasses from PHB will not be in the game full release. Deal with it lol.

Well now some extreeme negative poster post something quoting a extreem negative posters views.

We will have all base classes from PHB in this game at full release. That is more then Solasta with their limited low budget DnD license and ugly doll like characters graphics.
Exactly how many subclases or Cleric domains from PHB will be available at full release is unknown, but I do hope we get more of them.

BG3 is 9/10 in my taste and Solasta is 7/10.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 06/08/21 02:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zellin
They could and more likely did start with raw 5e implementation in prototype. And it's not something that normally goes into final product.
They have never shown any evidence of that. I find it unlikely since the first gameplay showcase looked like a DOS mod and to me was a disaster.
So they implemented 5e raw -> just to step back and make a D&D/DOS hybrid -> just to step back and make it more like D&D but missing many core features?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Last edited by Danielbda; 06/08/21 02:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Zellin
They could and more likely did start with raw 5e implementation in prototype. And it's not something that normally goes into final product.
They have never shown any evidence of that. I find it unlikely since the first gameplay showcase looked like a DOS mod and to me was a disaster.
So they implemented 5e raw -> just to step back and make a D&D/DOS hybrid -> just to step back and make it more like D&D but missing many core features?

Doesn't make any sense to me.
The very first versions of BG3 was to far offmark from real DnD rules for my taste, but patch 5 have made great changes. No more does food heal in combat. Food is used for resting though. Well and then no longer it is easy to push opponents you need high strength for that so some dex based rogues will not pull of it. In addition opponent weight does count now so so if this game will have Giants I doubt you can push them.
You can not anymore jump away from opponents without causing an attack of opportunity. You can now use disengage to move away, but then you forfeit any chance to attack opponent as in real Dnd Rules. All this after patch 5 at least and enemy AI is smarter then before at least. Companions attitudes are tiny bit less hostile then before towards players.
I have been told on forums that later likely in Act 2 will be introduced good alignment companions.

Personally in Solasta I got super annoyed by somatic component need in spellcasting and immediately disabled it from settings.

I have played lots of Dungeons Dragons pen and paper with more then one GM and somatic component has not been a huge issue in those sessions combat is fluid.
With Solasta default settings when you choose most close to real Dnd rules my Wizard could not even cast Mage Armor when holding something in the hands. If I would meet a GM with so strict settings as Solasta default desktop settings when you choose most close to real DnD rules and top of that make somatic componet fix a slow process I would say sorry you can not be my GM and I quit playing DnD with you as GM. Well and those GM that I have played with has allowed me to as free action I say drop this item to get hand free and I dont need use some annoying interface to do it. GM has always made it fast and fluid thing for me. It takes less then 3 seconds with a fluid GM to understand I have hand free in real Pen and Paper if I say I drop this item and cast this spell.
Well and many friendly GM in pen and paper has been less strict about somatic component and do not even care if player do not have hand free when casting spells.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 06/08/21 03:01 PM.
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
They have never shown any evidence of that. I find it unlikely since the first gameplay showcase looked like a DOS mod and to me was a disaster.
So they implemented 5e raw -> just to step back and make a D&D/DOS hybrid -> just to step back and make it more like D&D but missing many core features?

Doesn't make any sense to me.
Prototypes aren't being showcased at all aside from internal showcasing with "Yeah, guys, this is what we are going to develop". And they do exist more as a part of a game development documentation than actual part of a game. For better understanding same
Originally Posted by Zellin
Just read about games prototyping. Google knows.

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"Food is used for resting though."

Oh, thank you, Larian! One of my most enjoyable evening activities, after a long hard day's work, is to crawl into bed with a bag of onions and then munch away until I fall asleep.

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