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Originally Posted by The Composer
Originally Posted by sinogy
Fuck you. Some one calls me "asshole" and you suspend me, right? That means you agree with that some one. So, fuck you twice

I didn't see your post warning him/her against swearing but I am getting warning and suspension for saying "don't care about your feelings".
So, this means
a) Swearing is ok in this forum then fuck you thrice or
b) You discriminate between players which means either Larian policies allow it or you don't do your job properly.

So I am gonna report you and let Larian decide what is what.

Oh btw I am taking ss so you can delete whatever you want.

People are responsible for their individual behavior and actions. Someone elses behavior doesn't excuse other behavior.

a) I asked you to be respectful.
b) I'm not employed by Larian, just a friendly neighborhood peacekeeper.

Context matters, and so does one's history and past records when it comes to moderation considerations. You're only proving my point and judge of character by how you choose to respond. But I'll give you one more chance to be nicer, call me crazy but I'd really like to see people just get along and be nice to eachother. If people continue to prefer to be angry keyboard-warriors, that's when moderation becomes necessary. So please don't continue to make it necessary.


Someone elses behavior doesn't excuse other behaviour, huh? Then how come your double standard behavior is excused in response to my behavior? You clearly chose a side by warning me for saying "I don't care about your feelings" and not warning the other user for calling me "asshole" and "dick"!

a) You didn't ask other user to be respectful despite the fact that he/she had used swearing.
b) If not Larian then who made you moderator? Because I wanna reach to them about this issue.

You have no right to educate me because you clearly are making discrimination. You turn a blind eye to a user who called another user "asshole" and "dick". In which context is it appropriate to call a user "asshole" and "dick"? Explain to me in which context these words are fine to use against another user? If you think the other user somehow used these words in a right context then tell me do you also think I am an "asshole" and a "dick"?
Answer these questions openly.

Also, explain to me what does "angry keyboard-warrior" mean? Do you use it to insult me?

Last edited by sinogy; 10/08/21 09:43 PM.
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I guess it is necessary.

If you believe other people are worth having moderation having a look at, there is a report button you should use for future reference.

Appendix: Please keep it civil and on topic. This thread has seen enough flags already, and it'll be closed if it continues.

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The post for fan fic was my attempt to illustrate how I'd like to see Minthara both visually and character personality. Sorry if it was long.

Next time I'll jist post a link to the fan fic and reference the chapter and title so if you want to read you can.

But the point was to get feedback on the descriptions of the armor, her appearance, her personality, etc.

And no worries. I took no offense.

Last edited by GM4Him; 10/08/21 10:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by The Composer
I guess it is necessary.

If you believe other people are worth having moderation having a look at, there is a report button you should use for future reference.

Appendix: Please keep it civil and on topic. This thread has seen enough flags already, and it'll be closed if it continues.

I hope there will be no more violations of forum rules in this topic. Friendship is Magic!
[Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
The post for fan fic was my attempt to illustrate how I'd like to see Minthara both visually and character personality. Sorry if it was long.

Next time I'll jist post a link to the fan fic and reference the chapter and title so if you want to read you can.

But the point was to get feedback on the descriptions of the armor, her appearance, her personality, etc.

And no worries. I took no offense.
Ok. Thanks for understanding and explaining. You know in such a case maybe next time don't use the link, but quote the fanfic under spoiler with some elaboration and bold formatting on important parts? So impatient people like me can browse fast through it and get the idea.
So far I'm agreeing that Minthara would win from more eerie depiction.

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I personally do not like the silver eyeshadow at all. I do not like things like white eyelashes either. They never look good in these games and make the eyes look weird by drowning out the shape.

And ye gods, she does look like David Bowie either way.

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I personally think she looks like Tilda Swinton, but Bowie and her have been compared numerous times before.
I like it, she looks colder, more evil, calculating, power-hungry, and sadistic.

[Linked Image from upload.wikimedia.org]

The former implementation looked like the default Drow character from the character builder. More distinctive this way. When I first noticed the redesign, I immediately thought that the reason they did it was to make her feel more special, not some generic character. I can't think of another important character in the game that has this "generic-feeling" design at the moment (EDIT: Maybe Nettie?). I find it immensely far-fetched that this would be because of some kind of hidden agenda.

I agree that the lashes feel a bit unnatural, but honestly, I don't really mind either way, I think there are more important and impactful topics to focus on in the game (no offense to the fan club :-D).

I'm surprised to see the amount of passion this topic generates though... Not pointing fingers, but I think some could benefit from a bit of level-headedness smile.

Last edited by sheffie01; 10/08/21 11:44 PM.
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by The Composer
I guess it is necessary.

If you believe other people are worth having moderation having a look at, there is a report button you should use for future reference.

Appendix: Please keep it civil and on topic. This thread has seen enough flags already, and it'll be closed if it continues.

I hope there will be no more violations of forum rules in this topic. Friendship is Magic!
[Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]

Taking this topic seriously is the mistake I tried to warn people about.

Now we have Bronies all up in here. is it Bronys or Bronies?


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by The Composer
I guess it is necessary.

If you believe other people are worth having moderation having a look at, there is a report button you should use for future reference.

Appendix: Please keep it civil and on topic. This thread has seen enough flags already, and it'll be closed if it continues.

I hope there will be no more violations of forum rules in this topic. Friendship is Magic!
[Linked Image from i.ytimg.com]

Taking this topic seriously is the mistake I tried to warn people about.

Now we have Bronies all up in here. is it Bronys or Bronies?

What's your favorite pony?
My Favorite Pony - Princess Luna
[Linked Image from meme-arsenal.com]

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Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by GM4Him
The post for fan fic was my attempt to illustrate how I'd like to see Minthara both visually and character personality. Sorry if it was long.

Next time I'll jist post a link to the fan fic and reference the chapter and title so if you want to read you can.

But the point was to get feedback on the descriptions of the armor, her appearance, her personality, etc.

And no worries. I took no offense.
Ok. Thanks for understanding and explaining. You know in such a case maybe next time don't use the link, but quote the fanfic under spoiler with some elaboration and bold formatting on important parts? So impatient people like me can browse fast through it and get the idea.
So far I'm agreeing that Minthara would win from more eerie depiction.

You know, that makes a lot of sense. I'm a writer, so it is always easiest for me to write out descriptive scenes and such to illustrate what I'm thinking, but I get why people might not like it. It's a scrolling nightmare.

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Originally Posted by sheffie01
The former implementation looked like the default Drow character from the character builder. More distinctive this way. When I first noticed the redesign, I immediately thought that the reason they did it was to make her feel more special, not some generic character. I can't think of another important character in the game that has this "generic-feeling" design at the moment (EDIT: Maybe Nettie?). I find it immensely far-fetched that this would be because of some kind of hidden agenda.

I agree that the lashes feel a bit unnatural, but honestly, I don't really mind either way, I think there are more important and impactful topics to focus on in the game (no offense to the fan club :-D).

I'm surprised to see the amount of passion this topic generates though... Not pointing fingers, but I think some could benefit from a bit of level-headedness smile.

Aside from the provocative thread title inviting unfortunate comparisons, I think this particular subject elicits a passionate response, because it's one of those rare occasions where we get to weigh in on aesthetic preferences and visual taste for character design.

Something that it usually kind of overlooked, or which tends to only happens after the fact, since most games of this sort are more fully cooked, but this one is still in EA. It would be like if they took a survey of all the BG2 portraits a year after that game came out and then changed one randomly. At which point I would have told the Bioware Art team to "please stop using the Thomas Kinkade color palette" for every single Char Portrait! You know with all that gold and pink lighting lol.

I think they probably changed Minthara's hair because they thought it was too close to Novice Brynna's haircut, you know the other Absolute gal who the PCs run into probably right before they run into Minthara, and who had the exact same Absolute Haircut... just in auburn red instead of white.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

It would be like if Dror Ragzlin had that seem baldpatch haircut that Novice Andrik is sporting. Like they just follow on too quickly in the story, with the one coming right after the other. Though in that case I would have prefered they change Brynna instead of Minthara, since she's a less important NPC and didn't really have a fan club like MInthara did. Of course players are going to feel more strongly about the main villains of the first act. Its always more important that the villains look cool, since they tend to be more iconic and we remember them more.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 11/08/21 02:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think they probably changed Minthara's hair because they thought it was too close to Novice Brynna's haircut, you know the other Absolute gal who the PCs run into probably right before they run into Minthara, and who had the exact same Absolute Haircut... just in auburn red instead of white.
Brynna? Who is this? I tried to remember for a long time before I realized. Obviously she's not very memorable.
The hairstyle is really similar, but it would be better if Larian changed it at Brynna's and not Minthara. Larian can swap their hairstyles in patch 6

And take away this strange makeup. The blue color also suited her better, made her more visually pleasing.

In any case, as a player, I am pleased that Larian decided to pay attention to Minthara, most likely they wanted to get feedback and are reading all this carefully. But it's better if it concerns quests and additional content, why change appearance what everyone already liked. Combined with her old hairstyle, she looked very good in blue armor, why do we need a new Dragon Age Inquisition? There were already all the "innovative" ideas about how female characters should look like, you see how the players did not like it.

Moreover, we are not talking about some hentai clothes etc, it was just much more pleasing to the eye. And this is important, given that this is an important character and a future companion that the player will often look at.

Imagine how the players would react if Larian decided to suddenly make Shadow Heart bald or with a mohawk and change her entire appearance. Who cares that this can be part of her rebellious nature and the consequence of complex internal contradictions. Or make Astarion more like Nosferatu...

All companions should be aesthetically pleasing.

In any case, if Larian decides to leave the current version of the appearance, it will be acceptable only if they came up with a very cool and long story with Minthara, where for some reason this particular version of the appearance will be more appropriate, and leaving the previous one would be REALLY inappropriate. The developers will have to work hard to keep the Fan club of Minthara not only did not decrease, but became larger! Will Larian be able to take on such a challenge?

If Larian just change appearance for no really good reason, it can be a big failure.

Last edited by OneManArmy; 11/08/21 04:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think they probably changed Minthara's hair because they thought it was too close to Novice Brynna's haircut, you know the other Absolute gal who the PCs run into probably right before they run into Minthara, and who had the exact same Absolute Haircut... just in auburn red instead of white.
Brynna? Who is this? I tried to remember for a long time before I realized. Obviously she's not very memorable.
The hairstyle is really similar, but it would be better if Larian changed it at Brynna's and not Minthara. Larian can swap their hairstyles in patch 6

And take away this strange makeup. The blue color also suited her better, made her more visually pleasing.

In any case, as a player, I am pleased that Larian decided to pay attention to Minthara, most likely they wanted to get feedback and are reading all this carefully. But it's better if it concerns quests and additional content, why change appearance what everyone already liked. Combined with her old hairstyle, she looked very good in blue armor, why do we need a new Dragon Age Inquisition? There were already all the "innovative" ideas about how female characters should look like, you see how the players did not like it.

Moreover, we are not talking about some hentai clothes etc, it was just much more pleasing to the eye. And this is important, given that this is an important character and a future companion that the player will often look at.

Imagine how the players would react if Larian decided to suddenly make Shadow Heart bald or with a mohawk and change her entire appearance. Who cares that this can be part of her rebellious nature and the consequence of complex internal contradictions. Or make Astarion more like Nosferatu...

All companions should be aesthetically pleasing.

In any case, if Larian decides to leave the current version of the appearance, it will be acceptable only if they came up with a very cool and long story with Minthara, where for some reason this particular version of the appearance will be more appropriate, and leaving the previous one would be REALLY inappropriate. The developers will have to work hard to keep the Fan club of Minthara not only did not decrease, but became larger! Will Larian be able to take on such a challenge?

If Larian just change appearance for no really good reason, it can be a big failure.

Minthara's face looked more natural in the first iteration and that really is the worst thing about patch 5 Minthara in my opinion; and I think that stands out the most of all; the voice actress does such a good job that seeing Minthara's facial expressions as she talked and during the cutscenes was very exciting; but the patch 5 garish eyeshadow really diminishes the effect of her facial expressions; less makeup creates a sort of seriousness in a visage I think; more genuine and less artificial; I think that's true in the real world too; we all remember that famous scene that some have been playing over and over again or at least before patch 5 for months now; when she says "tonight you are mine" and the game does a close up of her face and personally the impression in my mind was something akin to "what did she just say!?" and her facial expressions, the voice acting and the atmosphere in general was really surprising to me at the time; some might ask well what is the effect of giving Minthara not only an increase in eyeshadow but garish silver eyeshadow at that?

[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/97c4a12...0c167c983bc7dae99e0f166c7fb318e8fc3.gifv[/img]
[img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/d23d65a...e94a91f074cb6962b5c8d68b46ad739a03f.gifv[/img]

In my opinion it makes her as a character seem less serious and honestly somewhat silly; as I stated in an earlier post Minthara is basically presented as a rough and tumble lass and a zealous cultist and by what we can see from patch 5 regardless of how difficult the journey, the fight, or the circumstances; one thing that she never forgets to do is to apply a large coating of bright silver eyeshadow around her eyes; she dazzles the reshade and heavy bloom effect users with magnificent radiance; surely this woman keeps stockpiles of silver eyeshadow at the ready in the Shattered Sanctum; I'm not even joking; what else are we supposed to think?

[Linked Image from i.redd.it]

I perceive in the patch 5 iteration of Minthara a worrying attempt to beautify an NPC by increasing the makeup on her face and this was a method that was used in Dragon Age 2 and Dragon Age Inquisition and a couple of other games that I can't remember offhand; where in my opinion some of the characters' natural beauty and faces were occluded by makeup; this is especially foolish when one considers the fact that Larian used real life models that they based in game faces upon and that is both wonderful and realistic; but when those same faces are slathered with garish makeup we can't actually appreciate the natural beauty of those faces now can we?; so even with real world scanned faces; the facial aesthetics can still be ruined through bad makeup choices and I really hope that doesn't happen.

Her hair is not as much of an issue as her makeup in my opinion though it does seem to be oddly neat for a crazed woman; it seems somewhat like a professional cut; maybe she has a goblin hairstylist who keeps it that way; the first iteration generic hairstyle seemed like something one might see on a crazed cultist; it seems ruffled, messy, and perhaps something that was self-cut at one point; though I do understand they want unique NPCs to have unique hairstyles, I would prefer if they gave her a messier, more discordant hairstyle; as of now David Bowie's hairstylist has traveled to Faerun and I suppose that's sort of interesting in it's own way.

That said the juxtaposition between her garish makeup and her what many might consider typically more masculine hairstyle; creates a conflict; are they trying to make her seem pretty or are they trying to make her seem more like a tough lass who can put on some armor and scrap; they cut her hair and yet increase her eyeshadow; it creates a situation in my opinion where players become confused; as though they're receiving mixed messages; and raises the question what does Larian want her to be aesthetically?

Last edited by Tara Grimface; 11/08/21 08:33 AM.
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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Can you imagine? "omg, i need to make sure my hair is long and styled and i should put on my 6 inch heels and fishnets for the absolute when i'm leading this goblin army against the druids!"

She looks laughable by proud, female Drow Standarts in a Society which is basically to literally boasting female Superiority. Dot! wink

Faerun is not some mentally broken, twisted "New Age"-World for modern SJW Feminists or something. biggrin Many Drow would never accept this.

"HOWEVER",
in Case some Folks are reeeaaally horny to see her this Way,

lets say "she was punished" by having her Hair cut to "Male Length and Style" and so on,
only allowing her to grow it out again when she comes back Home victorious after leading the little Buggers successfully against whoever she is supposed to lead them.


Just ... ...
... ... just don't color her Hair now Bright-Green, Purple, or Bright- or Dark-Blue, okay? crazy

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I have to say that the most notable change about patch 5 Minthara in my opinion is her eyeshadow and although she does have a new hairstyle; I don't think that nearly affects her appearance as much her increased eyeshadow and it's color which is bright silver. So from what we can see Minthara's eyeshadow has been substantially increased and changed from black to silver.

Here in the pre patch 5 face we can see the skin around her eyes is not occluded with eyeshadow; you can see her natural skin tone under and above her eyes; she has very little makeup on; if none at all for that matter; if she does you can barely notice it; the pre patch 5 face looks very natural in my opinion.
[Linked Image from staticdelivery.nexusmods.com]

In Patch 5 her face in the same scene with silver eyeshadow; when I look at her my attention is drawn to her eyeshadow and yet I find that I cannot fully appreciate the aesthetic of her face properly because of it and it seems to lessen the gravity of her facial expressions; her face looks very happy in the below scene whereas in the pre patch 5 scene her face seems too be more serious and in my opinion seems to express more conviction.
[Linked Image from i.redd.it]

I've always been partial to natural looking faces and I don't use very much makeup; I think that too much can veil the natural beauty and details of a face. It seems hard in my opinion to take a villain with bright silver eyeshadow as seriously as a one with a more natural face with little to no eyeshadow; Minthara's patch 5 face seems more relaxed; we don't see as much stress and tension
in the eyes; instead our attention is drawn to her silver eyeshadow every time we look at her eyes; it stands out in a bad way in my opinion; it takes more away than it gives and that's a shame because Larian has chosen beautifully detailed faces for BG3's characters and NPCS.

Minthara has a lot of angry facial expressions that have far more gravity when her face looks natural. This is a very impactful scene below; you can clearly see her anger and her eyes are very prominent in the picture; you can read the emotion on her face.
[Linked Image from d.radikal.ru]
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

Please share what you think about it, do you like it? Let's do some comparisons and talk about the contrast.

Does Minthara's patch 5 makeup improve her appearance?
single choice
Yes (9%, 2 Votes)
No (91%, 21 Votes)
Total Votes: 23
Voting on this poll ends: 22/08/21 04:45 AM
Last edited by Tara Grimface; 13/08/21 10:54 AM.
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Her angry expression patch 5.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

Another one pre patch 5.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

Which one has more passion?

Last edited by Tara Grimface; 12/08/21 06:03 AM.
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Another scene where Minthara seems really scary and psychotic; just look at that expressive face! How incredible is that?
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

With eyeshadow she looks not nearly as angry or psychotic.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

The former scares me a lot more than the latter.

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She went from dark and menacing into a glittery drow drag queen. The eye makeup was definitely not a good choice for this character. She needs her old eyes back and a menacing drow armor.

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Take this guy and change the skin and hair color and you'll end up with the new Minthara

[Linked Image from i1.sndcdn.com]

Last edited by Peranor; 12/08/21 11:53 AM.
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Now let's compare the two iterations of Minthara when she looks us up and down.
[Linked Image from s6.gifyu.com]
[Linked Image from s6.gifyu.com]

Here again I think the appearance of her eyes is very important; the 2nd iteration leaves more of an impression upon me; the eyeshadow really changes this for the worst I think.

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