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Originally Posted by Tara Grimface
Karlach has no makeup on it would seem.
Concidering dataminded stuff ... her face is almost for sure only Placeholder.


Short coment on my English. smile

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Tara Grimface
Karlach has no makeup on it would seem.
Concidering dataminded stuff ... her face is almost for sure only Placeholder.

ah interesting

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by KeinSklave
Calling it as it is, that is a sign of Woke people who hate "normies" and all normal beauty standarts.
If those Woke people do not get booted quick at Larian it will be a DISASTER for sure and hurt the selling of the game.
Because the product consumer around the world is very tired of this.

The majority of people do not like Woke styled characters of both genders. They are cringe and offensive in itself.

let me get this straight. A female character having short hair and makeup you don't like is "woke", and it's cringe and offensive. Do you hear yourself? "normal beauty standards"? What is that exactly?


OKAY, okay - maybe I am overreacting. Already calmed down again about this matter.
It is just my fears & worrys are often coming to live and I am can't deal with this anymore.
I want Baldurs Gate 3 to not "s*ck" and be good.
And Minths current hairstyle is giving me reason for concern.

You do not know what the traditional and therefore 'normal' beauty standart is?
For Women it is the stereotypical features associated with feminimity. Long hair, not obese, not punk or anything.

Especially with Elves in a fantasyworld who are known for their great vitality and extrem lifespawns.
It makes lots of sense that they have long hair that is not getting weaker at all even if it reaches their waste.
Not necessarily "Lord of the Rings" style but you get the overall image.

They do not have "punk culture" and hair that looks like they have just recieved a very powerful electrical discharge.

Minthara looks "OLD" even for an Elf(Drow) and her hairstyle looks like that of those ugly SJW's & Feminists.
Of Feminists with all their crazy ideas that are in fact NOT female empowerment but female depowerment.
And a revenge of less attractive Women against naturally attractive Women.
Most Men
° are not attracted to overweight Women
° not interested in the freakist hairstyles
° or more piercings & tatoos than teeth
° or make-up that looks like the indication of a poisonous frog


That is just a very bad design choice and if Larian is smart - they will not put THIS Minthara into any trailer during release!
Same as a few other characters.
People are very very tired of seeing their fantasy invades by political agendas & progressive bullsh°° that sends a message that no one wants.

Every studio should be smart about this!
Screw the NewWorldOrder system hired "critics", instead win the audience over!


I guess ultimately I will not care how Larian decides though.
And if I have to install mods for days or something before I can play.
I will totally do it and go through it no matter how annoying or painful it gets.
Everything - before I endure this repulsive "official version".

This Minthara looks weak & like a political agenda that has nothing to do in Faerun.


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The actual Karlach is just a random npc. She will be totally remade, face, body, the broken horn, will look completely different. Also, it seems she will as big as Halsin btw.

Last edited by Avallonkao; 15/08/21 08:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
The actual Karlach is just a random npc. She will be totally remade, face, body, the broken horn, will look completely different. Also, it seems she will as big as Halsin btw

Oh that makes sense; I simply chose a picture of her because she was a female NPC that wore armor; that said from what I've seen most of the Tiefling females seem to have basically no makeup. I must admit that my selection has been somewhat racially broad; the reason being there is a shortage of Drow female NPCs in this game; at least as far as I know.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

Last edited by Tara Grimface; 15/08/21 08:54 PM.
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I don't think there's any other drow npc besides Minthara, at least alive.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
she is just dead meat in my playthroughs. So hard pass.

There's a possibility you're missing something here.

If you side with her, and bunk with her, and later choose to focus on her lust rather than fear, and pass a skill check, she doesn't try to kill you

so there's a lot of potential for Act 2+ possibilities with the character

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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by fylimar
she is just dead meat in my playthroughs. So hard pass.

There's a possibility you're missing something here.

If you side with her, and bunk with her, and later choose to focus on her lust rather than fear, and pass a skill check, she doesn't try to kill you

so there's a lot of potential for Act 2+ possibilities with the character
I don't care, I'm not interested in evil cult leaders and I have zero interest in getting cosy with that drow, she is highly uninteresting and even annoying to me. It amazes me, that this character has so kann fans ( it amazes me with Astarion too, who I even like less than Minthara). As far, as I'm concerned, she is and stays dead meat, I only want her Amulett of Misty Steps.

Last edited by fylimar; 16/08/21 04:53 AM.

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Originally Posted by KeinSklave
You do not know what the traditional and therefore 'normal' beauty standart is?

[...]

They do not have "punk culture" and hair that looks like they have just recieved a very powerful electrical discharge.

I don't think any particular individual among us gets to dictate what traditional beuty is within the world of Faerûn, I know a fair amount of guys preferring short hair. Even know a guy who prefer no hair. I do not know what a typical guy likes in Faerûn. It doesn't even matter for me as a gamer. And that logic applies to humans on planet Earth, which aren't even comparable to humans in fantasy words (they don't have our history, environment, society, etc.) - So I always wonder when people discuss medieval traits for example, unless the particular game explicitly also has a medieval era within its lore. Who's to say short hair isn't normal among the drow, or among the cluster Minthara lives in?


Originally Posted by KeinSklave
Minthara looks "OLD" even for an Elf(Drow) and her hairstyle looks like that of those ugly SJW's & Feminists.
Of Feminists with all their crazy ideas that are in fact NOT female empowerment but female depowerment.
And a revenge of less attractive Women against naturally attractive Women.
Most Men
° are not attracted to overweight Women
° not interested in the freakist hairstyles
° or more piercings & tatoos than teeth
° or make-up that looks like the indication of a poisonous frog

[...]

Let's not go there, please. Politics has no place in a gaming hemisphere, and when brought up, it always ends up in arguing and fighting, and someone getting banned. I don't think judging someone by their hair is inherently a good idea. Judge people by their actions and the words they choose. I don't think Minthara has ticked those boxes, at least in the version I've played.

This doesn't mean that there aren't things to say about the hair-change, I'm not too fond of it either for the particular character. But I don't like any hairstyles that seem like they require hair-product to stylize, because I'm not sure if there's any hair-products for sale at any of the vendors.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
I don't think there's any other drow npc besides Minthara, at least alive.
Do we need drow tho?
I mean ... they are just elves with dark skin ... if we wish to compare their look, elf woman should do just fine ... and there is plently of them. laugh


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Minthara is way better in patch 5 imo. Cleaner look, more graphic.


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Originally Posted by Tara Grimface
Let's take a look at Minthara in the sunlight.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

The brightness of white hair and silver eyeshadow in the patch 5 iteration seems to really be overwhelming in sunlight; I think the whiteness of the hair, lashes, and eyebrows would be sufficient for her Drow aesthetic; In the first iteration though the eyebrows are darker I don't think it would affect much if they were changed to the white of the patch 5 iteration; it really seems in my opinion when she's in the sunlight it's more aesthetically pleasing to the eye when the silver eyeshadow is not applied. Kazuliski might've used some reshade in one or both of these videos; but I think it's still a good comparison.

Some very Blond people have white eyelashes. the black shadow and occlusion in white hairs looked really unnatural prior to patch 5 , its now looks much betters and realistic.

Look at this picture for instance [img]https://ibb.co/Nxhq1QR[/img]

Last edited by Hachina; 16/08/21 11:41 AM.

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Originally Posted by The Composer
I'm not too fond of it either for the particular character. But I don't like any hairstyles that seem like they require hair-product to stylize, because I'm not sure if there's any hair-products for sale at any of the vendors.

Meanwhile Astarion exists wink

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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by fylimar
she is just dead meat in my playthroughs. So hard pass.

There's a possibility you're missing something here.

If you side with her, and bunk with her, and later choose to focus on her lust rather than fear, and pass a skill check, she doesn't try to kill you

so there's a lot of potential for Act 2+ possibilities with the character
I don't care, I'm not interested in evil cult leaders and I have zero interest in getting cosy with that drow, she is highly uninteresting and even annoying to me. It amazes me, that this character has so kann fans ( it amazes me with Astarion too, who I even like less than Minthara). As far, as I'm concerned, she is and stays dead meat, I only want her Amulett of Misty Steps.

Well, I share the same opinion, but not everyone is the same. Some want to enjoy an evil character/romance expecting to have something like a "romance" with evil characters. Until they realize that they will not have any sort of good endings and start blaming the developers. It happened in some games and ppl still think evil path, etc is more interesting which is nice to have this choice. So, let them try and see how exactly Evil is. Ad I hope Larian can make sure the Evil path has some very nasty ending/consequences, especially for "romances".

But again, now that I think about it, Larian made the worst, and the most evil ending in DOS2 their canon and lead to the best ending for the world. hmmm.

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I think some of the interest comes from the way that these games still key off real world conventions, and along the evil path, Minthara is oddly one of the more sex positive characters in Act 1. They played it up further by going all porna with her in the celebration scene. Basically the Evil path S&M one night stand, where she still tries to kill you afterwards, unless you really thread the needle there lol.

If Astarion suddenly had silver eyeliner, I don't think anyone would be too up in arms about it hehe, but its like they're trying to do too much of a 180 on this one. Just make a new character at that point, I mean right?

Originally Posted by Hachina
Minthara is way better in patch 5 imo. Cleaner look, more graphic.

I agree that she looks more graphic now, but I see that as a net negative with the rest of the game's aesthetic being what it is. To me it flattens the figure, but not in a good graphic design type way like a Mucha drawing or something, instead I just get the impression that she's not fully rendered. The profusion of hard edges and general lack of contrast annoys me compared to the earlier iteration. Maybe this is what they wanted all along, but then they shouldn't have given me the chance to see their rough sketches first, since of course I'd end up liking those better haha. Isn't that always the case with revisited sketches? lol

Last edited by Black_Elk; 16/08/21 01:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by fylimar
she is just dead meat in my playthroughs. So hard pass.

There's a possibility you're missing something here.

If you side with her, and bunk with her, and later choose to focus on her lust rather than fear, and pass a skill check, she doesn't try to kill you

so there's a lot of potential for Act 2+ possibilities with the character
I don't care, I'm not interested in evil cult leaders and I have zero interest in getting cosy with that drow, she is highly uninteresting and even annoying to me. It amazes me, that this character has so kann fans ( it amazes me with Astarion too, who I even like less than Minthara). As far, as I'm concerned, she is and stays dead meat, I only want her Amulett of Misty Steps.

Well, I share the same opinion, but not everyone is the same. Some want to enjoy an evil character/romance expecting to have something like a "romance" with evil characters. Until they realize that they will not have any sort of good endings and start blaming the developers. It happened in some games and ppl still think evil path, etc is more interesting which is nice to have this choice. So, let them try and see how exactly Evil is. Ad I hope Larian can make sure the Evil path has some very nasty ending/consequences, especially for "romances".

But again, now that I think about it, Larian made the worst, and the most evil ending in DOS2 their canon and lead to the best ending for the world. hmmm.


I think it's highly likely you can eventually influence most of the evilish characters(probably not Minthara, though), so that they're not doomed, and/or total assholes towards the PC, and maybe even adopt a less evil worldview. It would be a tad unconventional, if they didn't add this degree of companion malleability in relationships.

Also in BG2 Throne of Bhaal, they basically treated the Bhaal taint as some sort of harmless 'god juice', since assuming the divine essence and position of Bhaal, lord of murder, had zero effect on your being. Basically if you were good up to the ending, you remained so, despite being a god of murder. So along these lines, it wouldn't surprise me, if they decided to "respect player choice" by adding some convoluted plot twist(Like making it so, that one of the dead three is ultimately pulling the Mind flayer cult's strings, not the mind flayers), where aligning with Minthara and the cult can ultimately be beneficial, since you're not destined to become flayer food.

I sincerely hope that will not be the case, though.


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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Well, I share the same opinion, but not everyone is the same. Some want to enjoy an evil character/romance expecting to have something like a "romance" with evil characters. Until they realize that they will not have any sort of good endings and start blaming the developers. It happened in some games and ppl still think evil path, etc is more interesting which is nice to have this choice. So, let them try and see how exactly Evil is. Ad I hope Larian can make sure the Evil path has some very nasty ending/consequences, especially for "romances".
Considering the original BG2 game doesn't have a bad ending for an evil main character, and you can become an evil god feared by many, I doubt that. I suspect BG3 will follow a similar route, since the premise is somewhat similar: accepting or refusing the evil power, with the difference that in BG2 the evil power came from the divine heritage of the main character.

edit: Another similar game (or rather expansion) is Mask of the Betrayer. I've found the evil ending was better than the good one there.

Last edited by ash elemental; 16/08/21 02:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think some of the interest comes from the way that these games still key off real world conventions, and along the evil path, Minthara is oddly one of the more sex positive characters in Act 1. They played it up further by going all porna with her in the celebration scene. Basically the Evil path S&M one night stand, where she still tries to kill you afterwards, unless you really thread the needle there lol.

Nah... I associate sex positivity with having the necessary space and time to actually figure out stuff like; what and who you desire, and how, and in what form, do you want to be desired etc. And of course being able to act out those desires, without the inertia of oppressive culture dictating these things for you.

And let's face it the drow culture, apparently initially conceived as a inverted parody/fantasy of feminism/patriarchy, is suffocating in this regard, and Minthara is pretty much the shattered product of said culture with markedly little agency of her own. As far as the S&M -genre is concerned, I don't think a person like Minthara, so lacking in agency, qualifies as a domme, since you're submitting primarily to the organization she's incorporated into as a puppet, not to a person.


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Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Tara Grimface
Let's take a look at Minthara in the sunlight.
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]
[Linked Image from images4.imagebam.com]

The brightness of white hair and silver eyeshadow in the patch 5 iteration seems to really be overwhelming in sunlight; I think the whiteness of the hair, lashes, and eyebrows would be sufficient for her Drow aesthetic; In the first iteration though the eyebrows are darker I don't think it would affect much if they were changed to the white of the patch 5 iteration; it really seems in my opinion when she's in the sunlight it's more aesthetically pleasing to the eye when the silver eyeshadow is not applied. Kazuliski might've used some reshade in one or both of these videos; but I think it's still a good comparison.

Some very Blond people have white eyelashes. the black shadow and occlusion in white hairs looked really unnatural prior to patch 5 , its now looks much betters and realistic.

I actually like her white hair; I just don't think her eyebrows and eyelashes contrast well with bright silver eyeshadow.

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Originally Posted by IdPreferNotTo
Nah... I associate sex positivity with having the necessary space and time to actually figure out stuff like; what and who you desire, and how, and in what form, do you want to be desired etc. And of course being able to act out those desires, without the inertia of oppressive culture dictating these things for you.

And let's face it the drow culture, apparently initially conceived as a inverted parody/fantasy of feminism/patriarchy, is suffocating in this regard, and Minthara is pretty much the shattered product of said culture with markedly little agency of her own. As far as the S&M -genre is concerned, I don't think a person like Minthara, so lacking in agency, qualifies as a domme, since you're submitting primarily to the organization she's incorporated into as a puppet, not to a person.

Yeah, I mean you're definitely correct, but for a not particularly sophisticated game that still wants to go there, she certainly hops to in this one at the celebration. I guess where I was driving was that of course the sex freaks in act 1 would be the foppish vampire, the evil drow psycho, and Abdirak lord of pain. I still think it would be funnier if Sazza was the crooner, or if Gale was the total slut in the group or whatever, but its like we sort of know what we're going to get here. They're playing it pretty safe for the most part. Where we get easy Evil sex on the one side, and none on the other. In that case the over the top Evil version becomes the sex positive one by default. I didn't even know that the camp celebration was supposed to be a big bang-athon, until trying the darkside path. The approval for the other companions needs to be relatively high, except for Astarion, who clearly is just bored enough to try anything at that point lol. If you don't waste time and resolve the Druid/Goblin path according to when the story beats indicate rather than running off to random places, its possible Minthara is the only one trying to dive in bed along the Goblin path, so it makes a certain sense that she stands out and others take a back seat. I was actually surprised that no tieflings are trying to get off going the other way with it. But anyhow, yeah I do think its part of why Minthara's appearance is coming up against more stumbling blocks, cause she has the sex with the PCs angle going on. I think she was thrown into the mix to heighten the darkside raging hormone appeal of stupid Gobbo choices, and like a definite Lae'z menage a trois dilemma written all over her, between the Gith or Shadowheart or her. Like who's going to be the most Evil night cap? I'm sure it's all in good fun. But honestly they should do a little more of the "Who do you dream of" maybe to define the appearances based on player preference there, if they want to play that part up.

I mean they give us basically a sub-character creator to select certain cosmetic preferences, and the first up in that menu is a female drow model. So it's sort of like, why aren't they using Daisy more in that way? It would be more fun like Total Recall.

That's a fair point about white hair, making sure blond haired people are happy with the modelling is bound to be a priority I guess. I think her brows and lashes were better before though. None of the character or monster designs in this game seem particularly graphic or intentionally stylized and cartoonish, when the vibe otherwise is all ultra-real. So seeing them push that direction for this character now feels sort of out of place, especially when we put her up next to herself, and want to get all extra critical about it in the mirror. It does make me wonder though about who the concept artist was, or if she even had any concept art to begin with?

Last edited by Black_Elk; 16/08/21 03:23 PM.
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