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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Niara
The accusation that it will mean players starting out with super high stats across the board is ridiculous - in reality, no-one is going to sit at their computer hitting re-roll for the literal hours on end it would take to get three 18s...
No, that's why modders wrote an autoroller for that in BG2. laugh

Y’all underestimate patient nerds/geeks like me. I’ve sat there for plenty of time to get stats I want in BG1/2.

I think a roll system would be fine, just lock it after the one roll. Want to try again? Main menu for you. That’s IF they want to stop OP characters. Honestly, with point buy (and custom lineage if we get it) you can start with 18 in your main stat.

Roll, point buy, or standard array….I’m fine with any of them.

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Originally Posted by Chukkensorc
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Niara
The accusation that it will mean players starting out with super high stats across the board is ridiculous - in reality, no-one is going to sit at their computer hitting re-roll for the literal hours on end it would take to get three 18s...
No, that's why modders wrote an autoroller for that in BG2. laugh

Y’all underestimate patient nerds/geeks like me. I’ve sat there for plenty of time to get stats I want in BG1/2.

I think a roll system would be fine, just lock it after the one roll. Want to try again? Main menu for you. That’s IF they want to stop OP characters. Honestly, with point buy (and custom lineage if we get it) you can start with 18 in your main stat.

Roll, point buy, or standard array….I’m fine with any of them.

I had mods that would allow me to set the stats exactly to what I want and I still sat there re-rolling when creating my character just to see what I could get.

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Originally Posted by Pupito
So, wanted to talk about the ability score when we make our character a bit, and am just wondering why the devs decided to go with point buy instead of standard array or random rolls? I get with random rolls you can just roll as much as you want until you have high numbers for everything basically, which can be silly and OP but considering it's mainly a single player video game then letting us make our characters silly and OP doesn't seem like a terrible thing. If I finish my first play through and decide I want to do another run but with a character who has rolled decently high numbers for all ability scores, why shouldn't I be able to?

Thank God we have somebody here representing for multiplayer amongst all you singled player weirdos. (kidding)

But seriously this is a huge issue with Multiplayer where some fair system of stat buying would be preferable to having people waiting for everybody to get that 'perfect' roll.

Either that or limit the re-rolls in multiplayer and then do stat buy. The multiplayer aspect of Bg3 is quite robust and I see it blowing up once we get 1.0 going and when Larian decides to make bg3 a platform with DM mode.

I don't care what people do in single player frankly, personally fine with letting people go with all 18's, or even 20s. Its not good for you but you are only ruining your own game. People going to mod that crap anyway, at least in multiplayer we can decide what mods we allow so we can act as a kind of self policing system to prevent that crap.


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I used to spend way to much time rolling in the original games.
I hate the concept of dump-stats, but felt that having low main stats would be crippling.

That is actually my main gripe with point-buy, it leads towards focusing on the most important stats and ignoring unpopular stats.

What I would like is to have the standart array, point buy and 3-4 rolls. You role your stats, can see all of them and then decide if you want to go with one of the rolls or if you use point buy/ standart array.

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Just a quick reminder that standard array is derived from point buy. With point buy you can make the array.

I dont care too much about rolling or not, as I dont like it but if others really want: go for it. But I hope that things like achivements are not possible with rolled stats. Also: multiplayer games are a concern here.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I used https://g.co/kgs/ynin7o ... with 6d20
My rolls:
2 - 16 - 19 - 20 - 6 - 12 (personaly concidering it great roll, funny enough it was my first ... 20Str, 19Con, 16Dex, 12Cha, 6Wis, 2Int ... great Barbarian in my eyes)
7 - 4 - 12 - 16 - 15 - 5 (not so good, but it could work)
12 - 11 - 3 - 1 - 9 - 20 (again, acceptable)
12 - 20 - 14 - 15 - 14 - 9 (exceptional!)
20 - 12 - 2 - 17 - 18 -7 (exceptional!)
11 - 13 - 3 - 16 - 5 - 5 (acceptable)

Just out of morbid curisoity....

What exactly was your internal brain logic here, putting up a series of stat spreads that very obviously were not using any number genration system that related to generating ability scores in D&D, and reating it like a demonstration of something?

I'm just... I don't know... puzzled at this, enough that I need to jump back and comment. We're talking about rolling ability scores - rolling 4d6 per ability, six times per spread, and your odds and time investment to roll mltiple 18s in a single spread (low enough that it will take you hours). What was your thinking, in rolling a single d20 a bunch of times and posting it up?


Originally Posted by KingTiki
But I hope that things like achivements are not possible with rolled stats. Also: multiplayer games are a concern here.

Would you care to address the contention that even starting with an 18 or a 20 provides what is ultimately a relatively minor advantage in the opening few levels of the game, and that that edge disappears more or less completely after the first four levels or so (due to 5es bounded accuracy)? This is just demonstrabale reality.... and in this converstion so far, No-One who has spoken against rolling has actually adressed it.

To Tuco, same challenge I put to Rag: Yes you can make a lot of rolls very fast using an in-game roller. Sure... if it's such a doable thing though, why don't you put your money where your moouth is and spend those intensely boring "few minutes" to roll a spread with three 18s in it (as I said and as you responded to with your claim of minutes), and then come back and report to us how long, exactly, it took you.... because we're not talking a probability of hundreds, here, we're talking a probability in the multiple thousands... Rag was not prepared to actually do it for the sake of this discussion... are you?

Last edited by Niara; 13/08/21 08:44 AM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
Would you care to address the contention that even starting with an 18 or a 20 provides what is ultimately a relatively minor advantage in the opening few levels of the game, and that that edge disappears more or less completely after the first four levels or so (due to 5es bounded accuracy)? This is just demonstrabale reality.... and in this converstion so far, No-One who has spoken against rolling has actually adressed it.

I would say that exactly because of bounded accuracy every additional point is very important. The Wizard that rolls 4d6 drop lowest and gets 3 18s can easily have max INT, DEX and CON at level 4. This means 18AC, huge HP boost + way better CON saves, and also best spell attack modifier + save DC for any given level. You also lose the opportunity costs for feats on you next ASI.

Seriously, in a system where the things like the highest AC a monster brings to the table is a 25 every point matters. +1 in my attack modifier is 5% better chance to hit + 1 more damage (usually).

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Once we get out of early access, we'll probably have rolled stats, but it should be noted that having more variance in stats does not make it easier for Larian to balance the game, so while they're tuning their encounter design, it really does make sense that they're limiting the stat variance by only letting us have point buy.

@ Niara
Notice that Ragnarok rolled 6d20, not 4d6 drop lowest per stat. As for past experience, you really should try BG2. It isn't hard to roll good stats. I suspect it just did a standard random between 3 and 18, added bonuses and penalties, and then raised to minimum for character class. And then players could move points between stats one to one.

Regarding the benefit of extreme stats, if one can start at a full 20 in the key stats then that means taking more feats or taking feats earlier. This is not entirely without impact.

@ KingTiki
I don't think Larian should try to promote purism by only letting achievements be earned if playing ironman with core rules using pointbuy. That's not sending a good signal of "just have fun", is it? And for MP purposes I'm not seeing a problem either. This is not looking much like an MMO PvP game, after all. Unless I'm missing something?

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Originally Posted by KingTiki
The Wizard that rolls 4d6 drop lowest and gets 3 18s can easily have max INT, DEX and CON at level 4.

No he can't.

Please enlighent me how that can be 'easily' achieved.

And again, three 18s is a chance in over ten thousand. It's not worth considering; if the situation comes up at your table, and if the players feel it's a problem, then you have a brief discussion about it like mature adults and settle on something that everyone is happy with. If you're that one-in-ten-thousand table, well... let's be honest: you're not.

Quote
This means 18AC, huge HP boost + way better CON saves, and also best spell attack modifier + save DC for any given level.

In a realistic discussion, we're talking about a characterting with *A*, singular, 18 on their rolls.

So, Better, you say... Better than? The wizard that values those same stats, but rolls the expected average? Because the Wizard with the 18 on their dice rolls has 20 Int. At level 4, the Wizard with the average expected roll who favoured Int ahead of all else *Also* has 20 Int now. The wizard with the high start might have the freedom to take a feat earlier than expected - provided that they don't feel the need to bring up a weaker stat that they also rolled, and which the average roller with the same play-values does not need to do... which is the far more likely situation.

It does not, ultimately, make muhc of a difference at all beyond level 4 - and in those early, *fast* levels it provides a slight edge, nothing more. Certianly nothing to get worked up over or go crying op-ness about, not by a long, long shot.

==

Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Notice that Ragnarok rolled 6d20, not 4d6 drop lowest per stat.

Yes..... that's what I'm questioning. Why? To what end? It's a head-scratcher.

Last edited by Niara; 13/08/21 01:11 PM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I used https://g.co/kgs/ynin7o ... with 6d20
My rolls:
2 - 16 - 19 - 20 - 6 - 12 (personaly concidering it great roll, funny enough it was my first ... 20Str, 19Con, 16Dex, 12Cha, 6Wis, 2Int ... great Barbarian in my eyes)
7 - 4 - 12 - 16 - 15 - 5 (not so good, but it could work)
12 - 11 - 3 - 1 - 9 - 20 (again, acceptable)
12 - 20 - 14 - 15 - 14 - 9 (exceptional!)
20 - 12 - 2 - 17 - 18 -7 (exceptional!)
11 - 13 - 3 - 16 - 5 - 5 (acceptable)

Just out of morbid curisoity....

What exactly was your internal brain logic here, putting up a series of stat spreads that very obviously were not using any number genration system that related to generating ability scores in D&D, and reating it like a demonstration of something?

I'm just... I don't know... puzzled at this, enough that I need to jump back and comment. We're talking about rolling ability scores - rolling 4d6 per ability, six times per spread, and your odds and time investment to roll mltiple 18s in a single spread (low enough that it will take you hours). What was your thinking, in rolling a single d20 a bunch of times and posting it up?
Well ... random number generator woks allways the same no matter what dice you set there ...
And its much easier for me to give there 6d20 instead of 4d6 and generate it 6 times for each stat ... and then 6 times repeat that whole process ...

But if you insist ...
The same abowe, again https://g.co/kgs/ctzeL4 ... this time with 4d6 per stat:
14 - 19 - 19 - 8 - 16 - 13 ... this was my first atempt ...
Even concidering that option that you cannot switch dices to any stat you want ... this would be exceptional Rogue in my eyes: 14Str, 19Dex, 19Con, 8Int, 16Wis, 13Cha

2nd atempt: 12 - 11 - 20 - 10 - 18 - 14 (I smell a Wizard here!)
3rd atempt: 14 - 9 - 6 - 16 - 14 - 8 (ok, this Con roll is bad :D)
4th atempt: 13 - 8 - 7 - 16 - 11 - 6 (same story ... if you have your stat positions set, it conciderably harder, since strength of your character can be easily screwed once your third dice is low)
5th atempt: 14 - 16 - 19 - 17 - 16 - 17 (No idea what class is this one ... but it feels to me like he can be litteraly any)
6th and final atempt: 21(?) - 11 - 11 - 15 - 7 - 14

Do those numbers say anything different to you?
Bcs they dont say anything different to me ... the way i see it, its not that hard in 6 atempts to get several exceptional character statistics. O_o

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 13/08/21 01:23 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by KingTiki
The Wizard that rolls 4d6 drop lowest and gets 3 18s can easily have max INT, DEX and CON at level 4.

No he can't.

Please enlighent me how that can be 'easily' achieved.

Well, yes INT was a poor choice, CHA works fine tho. I mistakenly thought that vHumans had 3ASIs.
Point stands anyway as we have 4 classes that really really thrive off 20CHA + 2 other 20s (either STR or DEX).
If they implement the TCoE rules then any class and attribute combination is possible. But at least CHA works with just the PHB.

Also I don't understand why you are bringing up IRL Table situations when we talk about the game BG3.

Quote
So, Better, you say... Better than?

Obviously point buy and standard array.

I was just explaining to you the mayor advantages that a lucky stat roll can have. And especially with the bounded accuracy environment (which you kinda forgot about?)

Anyway: you asked a question, I answered. You then moved the goalposts around. I find this tiring.

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Why on earth would you even roll stats with a d20, when D&D uses D6 - what would you proove with that? I don't even think, there is a rpg-system out there, that uses d20 for stat rolls.
Ok, I get the randomness, but why not try it with the right dices?

As for rolling stats: I'm all for it. Rolling stats is such an integral part of character creation, that I find it strange not to do it. And let's be honest, even if someone rolls three or four 18, that wouldn't necessarily make the game a lot easier. IN BG2, you didn't even need the high rolls, you got the gloves of dexterity and the charisma ring very soon in teh game and they both did set the stats to 18. And a bit later there was a girdle of strength I guess, which with you get a strength of 19. And the fights were still challenging.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Why on earth would you even roll stats with a d20, when D&D uses D6 - what would you proove with that? I don't even think, there is a rpg-system out there, that uses d20 for stat rolls.
Ok, I get the randomness, but why not try it with the right dices?
Isnt that irellevant, now when you have 4d6 as demanded? O_o


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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I'm 100% down for having an option to roll too. Aside from it just being tradition, it adds two things IMO:


1) It adds additional difficulty customization. Yes, rolling higher on all stats will make the game slightly easier, and vice versa - it's basically an additional adjustment you can make to difficulty that is 100% player optional. Want to do a challenge run where you limit yourself to really low stats? You can now do that.


2) Adds further replayability by making more "obscure" multi-classes feasible (TBD).

If Larian implements multi-classing per 5E rules, there are actually minimum stat requirements for multiclassing. For example, if you want to be a Paladin/Monk - you actually need a minimum of 13 STR, 13 DEX, 13 WIS, 13 CHA for the character to be legal. This build is basically ineffective if you are restricted to point buy, but could be pretty feasible if you rolled well.

If this game wants to try to have the longevity of its predecessors, I think giving options to allow more character options on replays goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
[...]But if you insist ...
The same abowe, again https://g.co/kgs/ctzeL4 ... this time with 4d6 per stat:
14 - 19 - 19 - 8 - 16 - 13 ... this was my first atempt ...
Even concidering that option that you cannot switch dices to any stat you want ... this would be exceptional Rogue in my eyes: 14Str, 19Dex, 19Con, 8Int, 16Wis, 13Cha

2nd atempt: 12 - 11 - 20 - 10 - 18 - 14 (I smell a Wizard here!)
3rd atempt: 14 - 9 - 6 - 16 - 14 - 8 (ok, this Con roll is bad :D)
4th atempt: 13 - 8 - 7 - 16 - 11 - 6 (same story ... if you have your stat positions set, it conciderably harder, since strength of your character can be easily screwed once your third dice is low)
5th atempt: 14 - 16 - 19 - 17 - 16 - 17 (No idea what class is this one ... but it feels to me like he can be litteraly any)
6th and final atempt: 21(?) - 11 - 11 - 15 - 7 - 14

Do those numbers say anything different to you?
Bcs they dont say anything different to me ... the way i see it, its not that hard in 6 atempts to get several exceptional character statistics. O_o
Why is there a 21 in there? Did you roll 4d6 or 4d6 drop lowest? Because you're supposed to drop the lowest.

This is why your stats are so good.

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I suppose I have to make a confession. I'm occasionally at risk of having a nerdy streak. Take this topic and all this talk about randoms and probabilities and chances of this or that. I just could not help myself and I ended up implementing 4d6 drop lowest character rolling in an Excel sheet. It doesn't use real random, it only uses Excel pseudo-random, but since we're not doing high tier data science I reckon that it is good enough.

And it turns out that on merely my 694th attempt, I rolled a freaking 100!! I got cought up in the moment and rolled a nice 10,000 characters. And while that was hugely fun, I must rather shamefully admit that actually digging through the stats and finding "good fits" was not quite as fun, so top and bottom selections are based on sum total of stats rather than a detailed assessment of fitness for purpose.

To avoid any risk of selection bias becoming a problem, let's start with the first 50 characters that I rolled. Rows with exception stats (16 or more) are indicated with a star. I picked 16 because with the right race bonus, this can mean a starting 18 and thus a faster time to naked 20. Perhaps small thing but that is the purpose of this whole excercise, isn't it? Note that only three of these gentlepeople managed a natural 18. These are indicated with a triple-star.

Code
Index   STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA   Sum     All Dice
1       18  10  12  15  15  14    84      6636 4241 2641 5462 6425 5363 ***
2       14  11  12  12  11  15    75      4461 1623 3451 4216 3424 3616
3       12  7   10  13  8   9     59      1615 1214 1316 1265 2511 3323
4       10  13  11  15  10  17    76      1514 6522 3441 2654 4333 6565 *
5       12  9   12  15  12  16    76      3145 4141 3154 5553 1543 5265 *
6       14  12  14  14  11  14    79      3156 2336 6135 6352 2236 4364
7       16  11  15  14  17  14    87      6545 2415 5446 5541 4665 6262 *
8       14  14  14  5   16  14    77      3516 4346 3625 2211 5635 4554 *
9       14  14  12  15  15  13    83      4554 4515 2641 1663 1546 4345
10      12  16  17  11  6   9     71      4442 6515 5566 2452 1231 2333 *
11      10  6   13  13  10  11    63      2621 2113 2553 1346 3243 1434
12      14  9   12  10  12  13    70      5631 2423 3542 3251 1156 5253
13      11  11  15  14  15  8     74      2541 2434 5446 1635 4356 4221
14      6   11  16  12  8   7     60      2122 5313 4565 1264 4113 5111 *
15      13  13  10  15  10  15    76      5135 2463 1613 1645 1154 6632
16      12  11  16  14  11  13    77      5252 6322 6255 3563 3612 2544 *
17      9   16  12  12  15  13    77      3214 5615 4352 4414 5535 5253 *
18      10  13  14  6   13  9     65      1451 4245 4552 2131 2165 1423
19      9   9   10  12  13  12    65      3233 3115 2235 6241 5621 5522
20      15  8   12  7   15  10    67      6435 4122 6242 3131 1564 2612
21      13  9   8   12  8   17    67      2561 1351 1215 3415 4222 5664 *
22      16  14  11  12  13  10    76      6264 4634 3235 2642 4361 3423 *
23      11  13  18  11  13  11    77      4116 1445 6636 5333 6243 5233 ***
24      10  7   12  15  10  11    65      3161 3131 4126 6336 2244 1254
25      14  14  13  12  10  11    74      3265 6353 3426 4216 4332 5412
26      13  15  16  8   12  18    82      5153 2564 6641 1215 1543 6666 ***
27      13  10  4   10  13  8     58      6243 5232 2111 3432 6134 4212
28      16  11  11  11  9   9     67      5625 3351 1362 3162 3242 2611 *
29      15  13  15  13  9   14    79      1645 4245 6543 4254 5131 3615
30      15  10  11  15  13  12    76      6361 2216 2353 5624 4245 1165
31      11  7   12  15  9   11    65      1344 2123 3326 1546 3332 2541
32      16  15  14  15  14  8     82      5651 5436 5326 4546 5361 1125 *
33      16  12  11  15  9   14    77      4662 1363 4134 3465 2333 4552 *
34      12  8   12  10  9   17    68      6313 4221 2146 5123 2342 6615 *
35      12  13  14  12  12  15    78      3541 2265 4614 6124 4622 5146
36      13  9   14  16  13  14    79      4263 1414 4436 4266 4542 6352 *
37      15  10  13  11  10  9     68      3663 5321 4632 5421 4224 1153
38      16  14  15  12  12  14    83      1565 6226 4654 3524 2552 3625 *
39      13  14  16  12  13  7     75      6234 2365 6555 6242 6521 4211 *
40      13  9   10  12  9   13    66      4354 1225 5223 2264 2152 4452
41      13  8   10  9   9   15    64      4514 1242 1163 2143 1126 3456
42      13  6   7   12  10  12    60      4544 1141 2114 4622 5223 2164
43      11  14  14  7   13  9     68      1623 6532 5514 2123 6116 1162
44      12  12  13  13  14  8     72      4531 6124 3355 4613 2446 2142
45      12  10  15  6   12  12    67      1156 6212 4645 2311 5334 1516
46      13  11  13  13  14  7     71      6161 6312 4136 5621 4155 4211
47      13  13  12  13  11  12    74      6423 3535 4315 1643 4423 4135
48      12  6   13  15  10  14    70      5413 4111 6215 5416 2235 6442
49      11  7   12  12  6   12    60      3434 2321 4444 5125 1312 2363
50      11  9   14  10  9   13    66      4152 1153 4644 4224 4322 2445

As can be seen, there really are quite a lot of these people that are not particularly cut out for the life as an adventurer. Without any way to switch values for stats or trade points between them, the regular rolling isn't necessarily producing great option. However, if one isn't the impatient sort who stops at a mere 50 people in order to find one's true self for a particular playthrough, it is also possible to roll overall superior life forms like the following.

Code
Index   STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA   Sum     All Dice
694     17  17  16  17  17  16    100     5566 1566 5561 6465 5665 5645
1793    18  17  17  15  16  15    98      6466 6655 5661 5464 4661 3456
9397    17  17  13  16  18  16    97      6653 6456 5513 5465 6666 6525
6298    18  15  16  14  16  17    96      6664 5364 3655 3644 6255 3566
6823    17  16  17  16  14  15    95      5656 5365 6465 5625 3455 2456
1801    14  15  14  16  18  17    94      4614 1465 4553 5562 6166 5664
5207    18  14  16  17  11  18    94      6616 6226 4266 4665 1452 6616
6988    12  16  18  17  14  17    94      1264 6364 6466 6565 3561 5566
7261    14  15  16  16  17  16    94      3653 5246 6355 4466 2656 6614
7679    18  17  14  17  15  13    94      6466 6653 3615 5616 6154 5325
7926    16  18  17  16  12  15    94      4466 4666 6562 4663 3354 3616
81      10  16  15  17  17  18    93      4214 6346 6361 5626 6561 5666
303     17  15  16  13  15  17    93      6165 1663 6641 5531 4562 6256
1957    14  15  17  15  16  16    93      1464 6451 2656 6163 5265 6164
2895    17  16  16  13  15  16    93      5665 6624 6552 2561 4265 1466
4031    18  17  14  17  10  17    93      6626 6556 6315 6625 3432 6615
4732    15  17  13  14  16  18    93      5416 6265 4514 3464 1664 3666
5944    16  16  18  14  15  14    93      4661 6355 1666 3365 6326 6414
6009    15  17  17  13  13  18    93      6425 6356 6564 1436 6324 6266
8057    14  17  15  14  16  17    93      4515 6256 6524 3455 2664 6564
8259    18  17  16  9   18  15    93      6616 6635 6614 2512 6636 6541
9878    14  16  16  18  14  15    93      5623 5615 5652 6616 3265 5643

And of course there also ended up being a whole bunch of people that would serve a good role in life as target practice for horrid wiltings, fodder for the gel cubes, stuffing for a flesh golem, or raw material for a mad necromancer's zombie horde.

Code
Index   STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA   Sum     All Dice
4456    7   8   7   5   10  6     43      2132 3411 3131 2121 4133 1231
2021    7   10  6   12  6   8     49      1223 4412 3112 5423 2222 1116
141     4   6   11  6   10  13    50      1211 1114 2263 1123 3314 3642
1067    7   9   10  6   8   10    50      2223 1342 2343 2222 3114 5141
1094    8   10  6   9   11  6     50      2233 3251 4111 3422 2353 1321
1162    7   10  10  6   9   8     50      2312 2126 4224 1213 1612 3232
2589    5   11  9   8   12  6     51      3111 4225 3241 1413 2246 1222
2918    8   10  10  8   8   7     51      5121 1442 2424 2421 1332 1214
3982    10  11  6   9   10  5     51      3134 5133 4111 1153 1424 3111
6898    5   7   7   11  11  10    51      1221 3122 1331 1551 3126 1244
7528    11  11  9   7   4   9     51      4611 3144 5113 2114 2111 3331
8330    10  9   6   9   6   11    51      1361 3124 1312 2215 1123 4252
8683    8   8   9   5   11  10    51      1116 2313 1441 3111 3523 3341
9612    6   11  8   7   11  8     51      1411 4225 3322 1322 5214 2115
2706    5   7   14  11  5   10    52      2121 4211 3562 4512 1113 1613
6633    11  4   10  11  10  6     52      5511 2111 1253 3533 4422 1231
6913    12  12  9   5   6   8     52      2444 2426 4322 1122 2212 2115
7597    7   13  7   8   10  7     52      2223 1364 3311 2313 3433 1313
9539    10  4   12  13  5   8     52      5321 2111 2534 6611 1311 1431
144     5   10  7   12  12  7     53      1221 3152 2312 2264 5343 1331
569     7   10  10  11  11  4     53      2114 4323 1613 4611 4243 2111
4300    6   9   6   13  14  5     53      2113 3323 3211 2364 3545 1122
4367    5   10  15  7   8   8     53      1221 2424 3166 4121 2332 2242
7904    12  13  5   5   6   12    53      3361 2544 2112 2121 1114 1561
283     5   7   10  14  14  4     54      1221 1133 1352 6144 5316 1211
585     8   10  6   12  12  6     54      1134 3611 3211 4443 5521 1114
2905    7   9   11  8   10  9     54      3131 1324 2136 2224 3512 4213
3248    10  8   7   10  9   10    54      3432 4122 2123 1253 3511 3116
7854    11  8   8   9   6   12    54      1641 5121 2412 2423 3211 3452
8401    12  9   5   8   12  8     54      4523 2252 1212 2133 1354 3321
8731    11  7   7   15  8   6     54      3352 2231 3311 5644 2422 1321
8833    9   8   4   15  10  8     54      4321 2242 2111 4645 3521 1152
8867    12  11  5   11  7   8     54      4235 2344 1221 3315 3212 4131
9797    13  7   9   10  8   7     54      5444 1313 5311 2126 3411 1142
9919    7   6   15  8   8   10    54      1232 2221 6345 3114 3223 3611

I think this very clearly demonstrates the volatility of 4d6 drop lowest and why Larian hasn't implemented it yet. If they do, they will probably take the BG1 and 2 route of letting players trade points between their stats after the roll, and it is conceivable that instead of actually rolling multiple d6, they'll just roll a single random between 3 and 18, making extreme values much more likely.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
Why on earth would you even roll stats with a d20, when D&D uses D6 - what would you proove with that? I don't even think, there is a rpg-system out there, that uses d20 for stat rolls.
Ok, I get the randomness, but why not try it with the right dices?
Isnt that irellevant, now when you have 4d6 as demanded? O_o

I overread that, but as Niara said, your numbers don't really make sense. You can't have a 20 or 21 with 4d6, you are supposed to drop the lowest roll.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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At the end of the day I don't care too much what the single player crowd gets up to, however I will say this - there is a compulsiveness that seems to manifest in single player games which I think is terribly unhealthy.

I have in the past observed in myself and others how stat rolling seems to feed into that compulsiveness.

-Must roll for best possible stats, even if it takes a long time.
-Must save scum to get perfect outcomes, even if I waste hours.
-Can't lose anyone in battle even if I have to replay it multiple times.

I blame self-esteem parenting. (joking)

Meanwhile my team - "Well gents, we said the wrong thing caused a race war and half of Baldur's Gate is on fire...this is fine."

For Multiplayer I would very much prefer if they stuck to point buy only, or make it an option so it can be disabled unless we all agree to it. And even then only allow x number of re-rolls.

Don't want any multiplayer lads/lasses flogging it to their own stats like some single player noob. :P


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
Why on earth would you even roll stats with a d20, when D&D uses D6 - what would you proove with that? I don't even think, there is a rpg-system out there, that uses d20 for stat rolls.
Ok, I get the randomness, but why not try it with the right dices?
Isnt that irellevant, now when you have 4d6 as demanded? O_o

I overread that, but as Niara said, your numbers don't really make sense. You can't have a 20 or 21 with 4d6, you are supposed to drop the lowest roll.

Yeah, standard method from late 2nd to about 3rd edition is:

Roll 4d6 and drop lowest creating a stat from 3 to 18 with probability tilted in the direction of higher stats.

See the Anydice distribution here: https://anydice.com/program/13e

After rolling you are then allowed to assign each roll to whichever of the 6 stats you want rather than placing them in order.

3d6 in order hasn't been standard since early 2nd ed AD&D days.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Even my brother's method is 5d6k3. See distribution here: https://anydice.com/program/da6

Though he also follows that up with roll 7 times and keep the 6 highest results... then he compares the results everybody got and gives points so people match whoever rolled the highest.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Because you're supposed to drop the lowest.
Originally Posted by fylimar
you are supposed to drop the lowest roll.
I didnt notice this in previous coments ... (if that even was there)
OK, lets try this last time. laugh

1st: 10 - 14 - 17 - 16 - 11 - 13
2nd: 14 - 15 - 15 - 12 - 13 - 15
3rd: 10 - 12 - 12 - 16 - 12 - 10
4th: 15 - 9 - 16 - 10 - 12 - 17
5th: 11 - 12 - 15 - 13 - 11 - 14
6th: 16 - 12 - 14 - 8 - 13 - 15

So ...
Even tho i didnt get any Mr. PawnOP ... i would still say that there is quite fair change to get above average statistic.
Keep in mind that theese 6 clicks would take me like ... 30 seconds top in ingame character creation. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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