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After playing four caracters, including one complete playthrough, I'm happy with the game overall. Most comments I could make were made elsewhere, with one exception.

TLDR : Given the circumstances, the sense of urgency feels lacking in the beginning of the game.

Here is what the caracter is told from the get-go :

  • You were infected by mindflayers
  • They will destroy you from the inside
  • You have days to live
  • You need a healer ASAP

OK, great. That's a clear set of goals with appropriate stakes.

Then Lae'zel appears on a silver platter, in a wooden cage. She's got a plan. She is the plan. Planning for this kind of contingency is her literal raison d'être.
Of course, she needs helps from her people; lo and behold, some dude over there saw a Githyanki patrol up on the Risen Road.

How is this not route 1? Where else should the player look for a perfect solution? Why don't the other characters react to this option at all?

At this point, nobody knows about the larva's modification. In fact, it takes a while (or some snooping) before you learn that fact. As far as anyone knows, you've got 48 hours to find a miracle or jump off a cliff.
Then the miracle people show up out of nowhere and they're barely a consideration. All your companions have to say about the Gith is that they're kinda rude, sometimes.

In my mind, the only reasonable course of action is to pipe down and follow the lady with all the fun facts about Mindflayers. (Plus, she helped you get out of Hell).
You can do that, of course. But if you do the sensible thing and rush for the Gith patrol as though your life depended on it, you will get your skull caved in. The patrol is level 5 at least, with great equipment.

So you reload and wander about, collecting wares for gold and murdering goblins for xp. That's how the game progresses, and it's fun, but it all seems like a distraction from ceremorphosis rather than a solution.
And the more you wait, the more you realize that the mindflayer larva doesn't actually matter. Ignore what everyone says and go kidnap owlbear cubs. Who cares?

Nobody seems to be interested in the best shot for a cure at your disposal, so why should you?


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Well, one probably should rush for the gith patrol, but then notice how everybody that ran into them have gotten killed. Then notice what they did to those fists. Then notice that the dragon is gosh dang huge! Then send Laezel in to have a chat with them, preferably on her own with everybody else far, far behind. Then you run far enough away that after the Gith catch up and kill Laezel, they'll go back to their normal pattern of goofing around and you can resurrect her, sneak off, and plan to come back another day.

But I agree that it would be better if there was some more sensible way to realise that her solution wasn't as easy as it sounds.

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First of all you get the evidence that the tadpoles are altered quite soon. Because with normal tadpoles you're supposed to have some nasty symptoms on day 1. And you, all companions and some NPC acknowledge that you didn't get a single symptom.
Second you get a tip that Lae'zel solution maybe a trap right after getting the direction towards the Gith patrol. In addition if you try to get more details from her and listen to some background conversations between her and Shadowheart you will get more reasons to feel worried about how grave her solution may be.

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Originally Posted by Flooter
TLDR : Given the circumstances, the sense of urgency feels lacking in the beginning of the game.

I am glad that this has not become such a chore and that I can rest as often as I want.
When the situation became apparent to me I felt annoyingly pressed for at least 3/4th of my first (complete) playthrough of the available content.
And it was not a good feeling.

It was not good to expect to somehow "fu** up" and lose everything because I was too chill.
But I am not someone who likes to be under pressure anyways. My whole spiritual being rejects it.

Last edited by KeinSklave; 09/08/21 03:35 PM.

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In-game urgency is addressed when you first rest and get the cutscene that makes the party aware that they're not transforming at the normal rate. The question is then: How should the game encourage players to rest before attempting to reach the Gith Patrol?

Either:
- A) After encountering Gale & Lae'zel, an overwhelming goblin force or some other danger (mind flayer ships searching the area?) should be detected by the party in a cutscene. The party has to hide and wait them out, and so they look for and find a secluded grove (the Camp) where they reluctantly hide and settle down for the night to wait out the danger.
Or
- B) The party gains multiple levels of exhaustion. Players have just been captured, held in a tank for X hours, implanted with a tadpole, fought their way out of a besieged ship, got slammed around in said ship, fell out of the ship, and fought a couple intellect devourers. Tav could have 1 or 2 levels when waking up on the beach. Then the party could gain a 2nd/3rd after the first Grove fight or after finding Lae'zel and Gale. At this point, a cutscene should play where other party members are clearly incredibly weak and beg you to rest, saying they can't go on (except for Lae'zel: she argues for powering through). You can of course choose not to rest, but this makes the game more difficult as 3 levels of exhaustion halves speed and gives disadvantage on every roll. Exhaustion doesn't need to be in the game otherwise.

*Not completely addressed though. Just because you're transforming more slowly than expected doesn't mean you shouldn't still rush to find a cure. After all, the Absolute could theoretically flick a switch (as you can do on the nautiloid) and instantly cause you to transform.

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Originally Posted by ArvGuy
after the Gith catch up and kill Laezel, they'll go back to their normal pattern of goofing around and you can resurrect her, sneak off, and plan to come back another day.

I didn't know that. I guess when Lae'zel runs toward the patrol I just go in panic mode and take off after her.
I agree the dragon is big and scary and your companions take the time to point that out but I figure : " I'm with Lae'zel, what could go wrong?"

Originally Posted by Zellin
if you try to get more details from [Lae'zel] and listen to some background conversations between her and Shadowheart you will get more reasons to feel worried about how grave her solution may be.

That's true, although Shadowheart isn't the trusting type. A warning from her doesn't feel all that impactful.

But maybe I'm just thick. The clues are clearly there. I just wish there was as scene where characters discuss their options together. Just to calibrate expectations.


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Originally Posted by Flooter
That's true, although Shadowheart isn't the trusting type. A warning from her doesn't feel all that impactful.
I didn't mean Shadowheart's warnings only. For example in one conversation Shadowheart asks Lae'zel how other gith supposed to react on outsiders (us) coming with her. And Lae'zel answers that her people will understand her need for slaves. That's not something proving her good intentions. And she is being like that all the time.

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I only wonder why Larian didnt set a trap for us in that dialogue, to be burned alive by a dragon ...
I mean, they showed us in fallen Nautiloid, that they are totally able to prepare for us some "clearly wrong answers" ... why stop just there? smile

Come on Larian, grow some balls, and let us screw our life as much as possible! laugh


Short coment on my English. smile

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They used to ragnarok, I remember getting burnt to a crisp when the bridge was under the wooden structure.

Last edited by Kryldost; 09/08/21 10:59 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by Flooter
That's true, although Shadowheart isn't the trusting type. A warning from her doesn't feel all that impactful.
I didn't mean Shadowheart's warnings only. For example in one conversation Shadowheart asks Lae'zel how other gith supposed to react on outsiders (us) coming with her. And Lae'zel answers that her people will understand her need for slaves. That's not something proving her good intentions. And she is being like that all the time.

I thought she was joking! And if she wasn't, I'd be OK with pretending to be her slave for the sake of survival.

The way I see it, arguments between her and Shadowheart are the result of distrust and prejudice between two people with equally valid points of view. On one hand, a strange creature with strange, if disturbing, customs, on the other a shady, guarded person who won't tell you her real name. Between the two, I feel the game is implictly telling me to trust Lae'zel by making her the first face I see when playing.

For contrast, when Raphael shows up the game makes it clear he's bad news. Every companion has something to say about him, and all of them say he's dangerous.

All the same, you're right. There was a lot of effort put into pointing out Lae'zel's plan is not the best idea. Plus, to find the patrol, you need to talk to Zorru and several people in the grove will block your path to tell you about Nettie. So you've reason to doubt Lae'zel and there are alternatives to her plan.

The designers clearly put thought into this, but I wish it was more blunt. It takes at lot to make me look a gift-yanki in the mouth (lolololol).


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Originally Posted by Flooter
I thought she was joking! And if she wasn't, I'd be OK with pretending to be her slave for the sake of survival.

I don't think there's any reason to believe she's joking or that you'd only be pretending other than that a modern videogame won't trap you in an unwinnable situation that easily. Without plot armour once you're in a Gith creche what really are the odds you'd make it out again alive and free?

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Originally Posted by Flooter
I thought she was joking! And if she wasn't, I'd be OK with pretending to be her slave for the sake of survival.
Lae'zel jooking? Naaah, not before we teach her. Githyanki do take slaves and do not take hostages. And Lae'zel is no exception at the moment.

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I'm conflicted. I understand that the lacking sense of urgency feels weird, but how do you make it so that you do not rush players into skipping content that is absolutely worth the detour just for the sake of getting that tadpole out?

Reminds me of the countless memes on the witcher 3 where Geralt is just chasing yet another worthless banshee instead of focusing on ... you know ... the friggin' wild hunt that's trying to take over the world? Skyrim is another example.

I think that's a recurring problem in RPGs. There's always going to be a main questline, but there's always going to be side content, and how do you reconcile the two so that you don't make feel weird about not prioritizing the main questline?

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The word she uses is "servants", a less loaded word that allows some ambiguity on whether she's just describing how her kin will see you as (which the Kith'rak does see you as) or if she's personally describing you. In any case, don't forget that the player character can also be a gith - so that statement wouldn't even apply to you.

You do have plenty of reasons to doubt Lae'zel since she's not friendly in the beginning and any other reports of gith are accompanied by murder. Her own actions to Zorru and her threatening to kill you in the first camp scene can leave a pretty untrustworthy impression. Shadowheart isn't necessarily wrong.

But through Lae'zel, you learn gith are mortal enemies to mindflayers, what the name of the "purification" device is, and hear her constantly reiterate that she is certain. At least judging from how you can respond to her in certain situations, it does seem like the game implies your character really thinks the gith would have a cure. By the time you realize she's naive and/or holding on to a wish and a prayer, you're already at the gith patrol.

For now I won't elaborate, but I think this is intentional and will be a theme in Lae'zel's plotline. There will probably be a lot of extra fighting and difficulty if you follow our favorite gith companion. I think if you don't have Lae in your party, you get a proper warning that you probably don't want to mess with the gith if you're low level. If you're an ok level, Astarion will say "can we kill them please." With Lae'zel there, she will run right into it regardless. And if you like this character, you're not going to abandon her. That's intentional.

Things aren't as urgent as they originally seem, and it's only urgent because for her, everything is riding on being purified. This is more her questline than the main quest.

Last edited by AvatarOfSHODAN; 10/08/21 06:23 PM.

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