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#786209 10/08/21 01:35 AM
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Not a fan of the supplies needed for restoring points/spells. The mechanics are awkward. If all food/camp supplies automatically went to camp AND were available automatically for use (I.e. you didn’t have to visit the camp chest to get them first) then it would be a nice addition and a good compromise to make resting mean something but not be prohibited. As it is, though, it’s just a pain to pick up food (which I wasn’t doing previously), then send each individual item to camp so I am not weighed down, then go to camp and retrieve the items before resting, which I invariably forget to do. It’s too much fiddling.

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To me it just feels like a chore--and I have enough of those in real life. The original BGs allowed resting as needed, with only the occasional random encounter as a deterrent. I really don't think this was the way to diverge from the earlier games. I'm not seeing the fun at all. With concentration, disadvantage, and random failure already limiting the effectiveness of casters who need to prepare spells, I don't see at will resting as a problem. The interruption caused by camping is a sufficient deterrent.

Edit: because typing is hard smile

Last edited by Imryll; 10/08/21 05:43 AM.
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I ended my patch 5 playthrough yesterday and I long rest a lot. Really
.. like more than 10 Times... And I never had any problem with supplies. With the bags and the food everywhere it doesn't really require any serious management.

I'm now fine with resting as much as you want with a ressources management that depends the player... And I like the new supply mechanic that is some kind of a limitation without really being one because there are a lot of food everywhere. It's immersive and not too complicated, I like it.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 16/08/21 06:06 PM.
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So I can't spamming long rest anymore therefore fuck camp supplies. 😅


STILL WAITING FOR NEW COMPANION AND CUSTOM PARTY WITHOUT MULTIPLAYER.
BECAUSE WHY FUCKING NOT???
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The problem is unfortunately a little more complex.

You can still spam long rests quite aggressively, it just requires a whole lot of clickety-clicking and general busy-work in order to pick up all kinds of foodstuffs and pushing them to camp and then picking them up from camp in order to actually use them.

But if you don't want that chore then long rests are somewhat limited, which then becomes a problem for some of the spellcaster classes that have to pick between constantly burning spell slots due to concentration failures or simply not bothering with concentration spells.

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Camp supplies is interesting, but also not really a deterrent to long rest spams since the food and supply packs are all over the place. At least make it require less micro managing, send supplies to camp chest and able to use them directly from it. Also, tossing in a chance at random encounters at the camp would be interesting, especially if we have some kind of travel system as we leave the act 1 area to make our way to baldurs gate.

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The system is way too forgiving and exceedingly generous with the resources required, but if nothing else its very introduction contributed to get rid of the festering wound that was having food as a healing source.

I have honestly no idea of how anyone could genuinely feel “restricted” by the current implementation of supplies and rhe complaint about the TRIVIAL inconvenience of having to occasionally do a five seconds detour to your stash to pick up something you send there (IF you weren’t bright enough to keep sufficient food on yourselves for a single rest) are honestly a bit ridiculous.

You even have a fucking counter in the corner of your inventory telling you at any given time exactly how many supplies you are carrying, so it takes almost active effort to be taken by surprise.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/08/21 10:42 AM.

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Originally Posted by ArvGuy
You can still spam long rests quite aggressively, it just requires a whole lot of clickety-clicking and general busy-work in order to pick up all kinds of foodstuffs and pushing them to camp and then picking them up from camp in order to actually use them.

I rested more than 10 times and never had to push things at camp... Just keep them in your inventory.

Originally Posted by Tuco
The system is way too forgiving and exceedingly generous with the resources required, but if nothing else its very introduction contributed to get rid of the festering wound that was having food as a healing source.

I have honestly no idea of how anyone could genuinely feel “restricted” by the current implementation of supplies and rhe complaint about the TRIVIAL inconvenience of having to occasionally do a five seconds detour to your stash to pick up something you send there (IF you weren’t bright enough to keep sufficient food on yourselves for a single rest) are honestly a bit ridiculous.

You even have a fucking counter in the corner of your inventory telling you at any given time exactly how many supplies you are carrying, so it takes almost active effort to be taken by surprise.

Agree with Tuco, once again.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 10/08/21 10:57 AM.
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Again, Camp Supplies isn't the issue. This is what I read here. The issue is clunky Item Management.

Fix Item Management and Camp Supplies would no longer be painful

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Originally Posted by Tuco
The system is way too forgiving and exceedingly generous with the resources required, but if nothing else its very introduction contributed to get rid of the festering wound that was having food as a healing source.

I have honestly no idea of how anyone could genuinely feel “restricted” by the current implementation of supplies and rhe complaint about the TRIVIAL inconvenience of having to occasionally do a five seconds detour to your stash to pick up something you send there (IF you weren’t bright enough to keep sufficient food on yourselves for a single rest) are honestly a bit ridiculous.

You even have a fucking counter in the corner of your inventory telling you at any given time exactly how many supplies you are carrying, so it takes almost active effort to be taken by surprise.
Consider the amount of completely pointless clicks you do over a the span of a game in order to pick up all the foodstuffs and then have them sent to camp to avoid carrying a whole bunch of pointless weight around with low strength characters and then having the right amount of supplies picked up when you get back to camp.

Yes, one can do this much easier when one has played through the EA a few times and know pretty much exactly what you need and what you can leave behind, and how to exploit everything, and how much money you're going to need, and what heavy loot you really don't have to bother with because you might as well just save-scum and pickpocket the merchants for money. Sure. I agree.

But for someone who hasn't built that knowledge, who cannot metagame quite that much, it adds up to quite a lot of completely pointless clicking that serves no real purpose whatsoever. It would be a lot better, I think, if camp supplies was an abstract resource that got handled behind the scenes, and whenever we pick up the foodstuffs, the supplies counter goes up, the item disappears, and utterly meaningless player hassle is kept to a minimum.

To be extremely blunt, having to pick up and inventory manage food is really not adding any value whatsoever to the game. Taking healing away from food is good, but making players mess around with food items to sleep is forcing players to play inventory management rather than playing the core part of game.

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Aside for the fact that “turn food into an abstract resource, who the fuck cares about having 72 types of food” is an objection I made myself before supplies were even a thing in this game, that’s more an issue with inventory management in general and how much busywork it implies.

Things already improved a lot with this update in the very moment food stoped being something that you were encouraged to carry with you at any given time as a source for healing. Now you can feel free to send it to Oblivion without a single care in the world one second after picking it up.

That said, there’s only so much automation you can add to a system before making it completely pointless, and the current one is already dangerously close to be exactly that as it is.
All these requests to “send it directly to camp” and “then use it directly fr your stash” (because apparently spending five seconds walking back to it once from your campfire every couple of hours or so while resting must be EXHAUSTING) are a bit of a joke.

If we want inventory management to be less annoying (and I do) why don’t we focus on the original sin: having millions of containers and too much loot EVERYWHERE.
This is what should be addressed.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/08/21 02:59 PM.

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The whole camping system feels like they are trying to re-invent the wheel.

BG1&2 had a simple resting system that works great and is immersive.

- No tedious food management. Seriously, when was this ever fun in an RPG? Most RPG's don't make you collect food and water for a good reason. Larian is all about "what works in a video game" yet they insist on having this tedious mechanic that was never fun in any video game. I am not having fun collecting the myriad food items from endless containers. Abstract and integrate food into long and short rests without having to manage it!
- You rest wherever you are exactly, no unnecessary teleporting to mysterious locations that don't exist on the map. Immersion and meaningful decisions where to rest.
- No resting at all in impossible locations that are too dangerous or hazardous.
- Choose to camp in a hostile location and risk being attacked.

I think BG3 needs at least some form of random encounters in and out of long resting to make the world feel alive and less scripted. That ties in directly with the resting system as you need something that prevents spamming rest in a D&D game that is balanced around resting. Collecting food is just tedious and it doesn't really restrict you from resting as much as you want anyway. A timer would be even worse as it would create downtime in playing. That really only leaves either a gold tax and/or random encounters to encourage you to Long Rest as little as possible. Or scripted events from the passing of time, i.e. fail quests, miss opportunities etc. Not sure how much fun that would be and it sure would be a lot of work for Larian.

So stop reinventing the wheel and do it exactly like BG1&2. Or build on that with actual camp sites (that already seem to exist in BG3 in many places) and a gold cost or something.

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Idk... I like the idea of camp supplies. I think camping shouldn't be overused. What they need to fix is rest-based cutscenes and food management. Too many companion dialogues are locked behind long-rests. It would be a lot better if these dialogues were activated after a short rest too (unless you are in an area of immediate danger, or the dialogue is in reference to sleeping like Astarion's). Since food no longer heals you, picking up food should send it straight to the campfire, which should have its own inventory, rather than going in a party member's bag. Or, they should add a 'deposit all food' shortcut in the inventory, so that you can still sell food to a vendor if you wish to.

I really like tying spell-slot regen and health regen to an exhaustion mechanic. I think they should go full-fledged with an exhaustion mechanic that reduces movement speed and gives disadvantage on rolls if you spend too long without resting at all, similar to being encumbered. Narratively, Larian is constantly bringing up the intense need to get rid of the tadpole and counter-arguing that with suggestions and objections to resting throughout the party, but it never goes beyond that, and I think it would beef up the gameplay element for there to be another looming threat of tiredness on top of the party's immediate problem of the tadpole.

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The camp supplies feel janky because they were a reaction to dnd people wanting everyone to be forced to play the game as they play it. it feels out of place because it is. they should just remove all food if they're going to stick with the camp supply nonsense. I've spent more time in this playthrough micro-managing my inventory than ever before, and it's not fun. That's not gameplay. If you want to limit long-resting fine, do it. Make certain areas that you can't rest in. Remove fast travel. Adding in a weird supply mechanic that for some reason scales as you level up and you have to micro-manage isn't the solution.

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What I find absurd about the complain is that micro-management was NOT increased with the last update.
The supply system is mostly automated, moving outside of the automated process takes a couple of clicks.

Dulcis in fundo, you have LESS reasons than before to carry your food around, not more of them.

Where the hell is the "micro-management" exactly? Right clicking to send food to camp? That's optional and it was always there.

Not to mention the DELIRIOUS claims of people who say they feel "restricted" by this new system. Half way through Act 1 I had enough "supplies" saved up that could probably last me for the entire game (post-release), twice, and that's if I was being almost pornographically WASTEFUL with my food.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/08/21 05:13 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
What I find absurd about the complain is that micro-management was NOT increased with the last update.
The supply system is mostly automated, moving outside of the automated process takes a couple of clicks.

Dulcis in fundo, you have LESS reasons than before to carry your food around, not more of them.

Where the hell is the "micro-management" exactly? Right clicking to send food to camp? That's optional and it was always there.

Not to mention the DELIRIOUS claims of people who say they feel "restricted" by this new system. Half way through Act 1 I had enough "supplies" saved up that could probably last me for the entire game (post-release), twice, and that's if I was being almost pornographically WASTEFUL with my food.
Your tone is becoming rather hostile. Referring to other people's feelings as "delirious" is hardly going to make for a remotely constructive conversation, is it?

Carrying food around takes weight in the inventory, and that weight is a precious resource now. Sending food items to camp is something you can do one item at a time, which is such a 90's style UI thing, and then every time you rest, you have to run off to your personal storage and pick some stuff up, and then send whatever you don't use back to camp afterwards.

And of course you have to actually pick up all this junk for the sole purpose of having it in camp so you can rest. And if you don't do it then you can't rest effectively. Further, do consider that the supply of it doesn't explode unless you either pickpocket or raid either the gobbo camp or the risen road area. That's where the majority of the food happens to be. There's some in the broken village, a bit in the bandit camp in the temple, and not exactly huge amounts to be easily lifted from the druids. And obviously, once you know this, your stance towards camp supplies changes. Once you know this. In other words, to try and encourage people to "not cheese", we've just implemented a mechanic that rewards metagaming and thus cheesing.

And even when you know what you should pick up and what you should leave, you still have to waste a bunch of times picking up all that junk, and what's actual the gain? How does it benefit my gameplay in any conceivable way to do that particular bit of clickety-clicking? The brutally honest answer is, it does not. The game is not in any way more fun for me because I have to pick up some useless junk to be able to rest, but every second I waste on it and every click I make to that extent is a second and a click that isn't spent on the part of the game that actually is rewarding.

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Arron, the merchant at the Druid Grove, sells those supply packs or whatever they're caloed.

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Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Carrying food around takes weight in the inventory, and that weight is a precious resource now. Sending food items to camp is something you can do one item at a time, which is such a 90's style UI thing.
Once again, that's not an issue introduced with this patch and it's also more of an issue with how shitty inventory management is in this game in general than with what this update introduced.
If you want to argue that the UI in most Larian games is often garbage be my guest and you'll learn that you won't meet much opposition on my part, but when the solution suggested is "Remove any resource management whatsoever" you won't find my sympathy.

Do you want a solution to both problems? Here's one: let's have a WHOLE LOT less food (and, as we are on it, less of everything, really) hanging around in general. And less containers, and less shit. And items that actually stack. In this way you'll see that you wont' have to worry about how much weight you are carrying.

"You HAVE to pick ALL the junk to afford rest" is a spurious claim, when I already pointed that without even being particularly fastidious about looting everything in the game I ended up having enough "supplies" for 40 long rests.
And that's without even accounting for the fact that supplies are on sales from several merchants, if REALLY needed for whatever reasons.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/08/21 07:06 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by ArvGuy
Carrying food around takes weight in the inventory, and that weight is a precious resource now. Sending food items to camp is something you can do one item at a time, which is such a 90's style UI thing.
Once again, that's not an issue introduced with this patch and it's also more of an issue with how shitty inventory management is in this game in general than with what this update introduced.
If you want to argue that the UI in most Larian games is often garbage be my guest and you'll learn that you won't meet much opposition on my part, but when the solution suggested is "Remove any resource management whatsoever" you won't find my sympathy.

Do you want a solution to both problems? Here's one: let's have a WHOLE LOT less food (and, as we are on it, less of everything, really) hanging around in general. And less containers, and less shit. And items that actually stack. In this way you'll see that you wont' have to worry about how much weight you are carrying.

"You HAVE to pick ALL the junk to afford rest" is a spurious claim, when I already pointed that without even being particularly fastidious about looting everything in the game I ended up having enough "supplies" for 40 long rests.
And that's without even accounting for the fact that supplies are on sales from several merchants, if REALLY needed for whatever reasons.
I thought is was pretty obvious that you don't have to pick up all junk on the map, but you do have to pick up all the foodstuff junk that you want available for resting. If you have enough supplies for 40 rests then you picked up some 1600 supplies worth of otherwise useless junk and dumped it all to camp. And that whole process, every second and click spent doing it, was a complete waste of time that did not serve to make the gameplay better.

I don't think the problems is having containers floating about, nor do I think the number of junk items is really an issue. Baldur's Gate 1 had plenty of junk containers and it had no highlight feature, so you basically played "find the magic pixel" on every single map. Every. Single. Map. BG2 had highlight but even more empty containers everywhere. It was fine. There were junk items too, and we just left those behind, because that's what you do with junk items that do nothing and aren't worth enough to treat as loot.

It also feels rather decorative to have all that food everywhere. And all that booze. Once Larian get around to crafting, it might even serve a purpose. Maybe. But right now it feels like the camp supplies system is the worst of two worlds, Larian wanting to do "something" to make constant resting less attractive and Larian wanting all their foodstuffs to serve some form of purpose, resulting in meaningless busywork and pseudo-management of resources that new people don't know is meaningless while metagamers can ignore the restriction completely.

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The issue with camping is that you have to do it to trigger cutscenes with your party and move the story forward. I am resting way more than I need to for that purpose, often not even using the stupid supplies when I do so…because the first fourth of the game is in the Druid grove where I don’t fight at all, but wrack up so much approval that it completely screws up personal dialogues if I do not rest constantly.

Thus—-my gripe is tying story beats to camping. I wish they did not do that.

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